How to counter sloads semblance in PvP

JackDaniell

Just gonna drop a bit of info regarding counters to sloads but more specificly counters to a DOT/condition build.

Efficient purge removes 2 negative effects AND halves the duration of negative effects for 4 secconds. This means that even if your purge removes no DOTs, it still cuts a massive amout of damage away (up to 50% if you purge right away). Allot of people do not take this seccondary and arguably better effect into account when evaluating this skill for anti DOT gameplay. This is by far the most availible purge to everyone and only requires you to slot it and not have abysmal mag sustain as YOU DONT NEED TO SPAM IT!

Mutagen removes one negative effect and heals you when you drop below 20% hp. This is a cheap condition removal skill that can help out if your running resto.

Wyrd tree set removes 5 negative effects every 15 secconds when you cast a magicka skill. You can run this set on a backbar to preserve a damage front bar, and jewlery crafting means you can use this with ideal jewlery traits now. This is a seriously good set for adding counter DOT play to a mag build (even stam build as they can utilize the mag recovery it gives).

Meridias blessed armor 5 peice will cause you opponent to miss all attacks for 5 secconds when you block an attack. This includes DOTs! This is a particularly good set as it also offers a huge defensive bonus against non DOT gameplay and is the best choice for a stamina anti DOT set (but can yet again work for mag to thanks to jewlery crafting).

Templar gets the best purge as a class skill, if you really cant deal with sloads try out templar in pvp. They literaly just shrug dots off and you will find sets like sloads a non issue.

Warden gets 1 negative effect removal from betty netch, this is the only "free" purge skill in the game (you actualy gain magicka when you cast it) but it is not very strong.

I hope this helps some people out. Regarding sloads as a set i think its fine (comparable to sheer venom or vipers sting). If I run counter play to it i have no issues fighting it. If the set is bugged and does not function as the tooltip states it should be fixed to function as such.

So should sloads be nerfed? No i dont think so. Conditions/DOTs have always been a part of PvP and people for the most part dont normaly run counter play to it (cant beat rock with scissors). If anything i would love to see ZOS add some more sources of purge/condition counterplay to the game. We have some good options but i dont think its nearly enough!

Lord_Ninka

Have you tested all these counters to make sure they actually work against Sload? I keep hearing it doesn't follow the normal ruleset.

dtsharples

Lord_Ninka wrote: »

Have you tested all these counters to make sure they actually work against Sload? I keep hearing it doesn't follow the normal ruleset.

It follows the general rules, except that it is Oblivion Damage - just like the Oblivion damage you can already enchant onto your weapons.

Oblivion damage ignores resistances + shields, but does significantly lower tool-tip damage than say Fire / Shock / Poison.
The only way to increase the damage that the set does, is to fully gold all items. (To my Knowledge)
Your CP, Spell power / Weapon power won't affect it.
Although you might see a change in the tool-tip by adding CP into Thaumaturge etc, in reality it doesn't actually affect the damage it does.

Purge works as explained above. But there is obviously a large possibility that another stack of Sloads will be added after the initial one has been purged.

Most people are just annoyed that they can't play their build exactly as it was from last season, and are unreasonably refusing to adapt to a new situation.

Qbiken

dtsharples wrote: »

Lord_Ninka wrote: »

Have you tested all these counters to make sure they actually work against Sload? I keep hearing it doesn't follow the normal ruleset.

It follows the general rules, except that it is Oblivion Damage - just like the Oblivion damage you can already enchant onto your weapons.

Oblivion damage ignores resistances + shields, but does significantly lower tool-tip damage than say Fire / Shock / Poison.
The only way to increase the damage that the set does, is to fully gold all items. (To my Knowledge)
Your CP, Spell power / Weapon power won't affect it.
Although you might see a change in the tool-tip by adding CP into Thaumaturge etc, in reality it doesn't actually affect the damage it does.

Purge works as explained above. But there is obviously a large possibility that another stack of Sloads will be added after the initial one has been purged.

Most people are just annoyed that they can't play their build exactly as it was from last season, and are unreasonably refusing to adapt to a new situation.

People adapt (either by changing their playstyle or build), but that doesn´t mean it´s balanced. Personally I´ve just accepted that my current build can´t handle the "Sload-meta" too well but when Sload´s get it´s nerf my build will be more viable again.

Vaoh

.

Vaoh

dtsharples wrote: »

Lord_Ninka wrote: »

Have you tested all these counters to make sure they actually work against Sload? I keep hearing it doesn't follow the normal ruleset.

.

Most people are just annoyed that they can't play their build exactly as it was from last season, and are unreasonably refusing to adapt to a new situation. their builds to survive one overperforming set when 250+ others exist.

NTclaymore

Sload to me just seems like the counter to shieldspam that Shieldbreaker should have been. Shieldbreaker has 2-4 bonuses that focus on stamina making it hard to justify using it on a mag PvP build. Sload as stated above allready doesnt scale with anything like mag or stam so both types can use and us with tanks that still want to go thru the BG daily now have a set that allows us to actully do something in deathmatches. not much but something.

Is it a problem? I dont think so. Sets that boosts damage in general will hit harder. but that statboost doesnt show up on the death recap, you can only see the sets effect by the higher numbers on each skill making it harder to work out whats going on. Sload however appears in your death recap so its easier to blame it. that doesnt mean that its the problem.
Sload is allso easily available since its craftable while other sets that show up on your death recap like Caluurion and Zaan are not just locked behind DLC (you can ask someone to craft you sload, you cant ask someone to trade you Caluurion if you cant go to fang lair) they are allso not the easiest of dungeons and takes time to get.

No counterplay? It is "Just" 5k damage over actully quite a long time. the problem for shieldspammers is that it is the counter for what had no true counter before other than the too specialized Shieldbreaker. you can purge it and the whole "It will just be reapplied" that can be said about every dot in the game ever so that either makes purge useless or the arguement invalid. My nightblade after being hit by a coldfire would say purge seems usefull.

Does sload then needs fixing? YES. what you guys really should complain about is the fact that it ingores the suppression made by cloak and therefore pulls NBs out of stealth. That needs to addressed. that cant be intented. otherwise it seems fine to me. If you think the damage it does is behond anything else. take it to a training dummy and see the results in terms of actual DPS. its a shield counter thats not completely useless against non-sheld enemies. Its good but its not broken.

VexingArcanist

Yes please everyone play a meta build specifically to counter an overtuned set. Yes you either play the meta or you play against it.

So slot skills just to counter this ONE set.

GOGO.

NTclaymore

VexingArcanist wrote: »

Yes please everyone play a meta build specifically to counter an overtuned set. Yes you either play the meta or you play against it.

So slot skills just to counter this ONE set.

GOGO.

Or you know. Having to slot a full set to counter 1-2 skill. (hardend ward n healing ward)

abit of self healing wouldnt hurt in a PvP match either. you can still shieldspam. you just need to heal about 0.8k health per tick. mutagen once n you countered it.

Vaoh

NTclaymore wrote: »

Sload to me just seems like the counter to shieldspam that Shieldbreaker should have been. Shieldbreaker has 2-4 bonuses that focus on stamina making it hard to justify using it on a mag PvP build. Sload as stated above allready doesnt scale with anything like mag or stam so both types can use and us with tanks that still want to go thru the BG daily now have a set that allows us to actully do something in deathmatches. not much but something.

Is it a problem? I dont think so. Sets that boosts damage in general will hit harder. but that statboost doesnt show up on the death recap, you can only see the sets effect by the higher numbers on each skill making it harder to work out whats going on. Sload however appears in your death recap so its easier to blame it. that doesnt mean that its the problem.
Sload is allso easily available since its craftable while other sets that show up on your death recap like Caluurion and Zaan are not just locked behind DLC (you can ask someone to craft you sload, you cant ask someone to trade you Caluurion if you cant go to fang lair) they are allso not the easiest of dungeons and takes time to get.

No counterplay? It is "Just" 5k damage over actully quite a long time. the problem for shieldspammers is that it is the counter for what had no true counter before other than the too specialized Shieldbreaker. you can purge it and the whole "It will just be reapplied" that can be said about every dot in the game ever so that either makes purge useless or the arguement invalid. My nightblade after being hit by a coldfire would say purge seems usefull.

Does sload then needs fixing? YES. what you guys really should complain about is the fact that it ingores the suppression made by cloak and therefore pulls NBs out of stealth. That needs to addressed. that cant be intented. otherwise it seems fine to me. If you think the damage it does is behond anything else. take it to a training dummy and see the results in terms of actual DPS. its a shield counter thats not completely useless against non-sheld enemies. Its good but its not broken.

I wonder when the whole NB vs Sorc thing started. Of all of the time I have spent on this forum, easily the dumbest thing I’ve read were the NB vs Sorc discussions (which is a loooooot of posts). Some people really see this game like that and it’s so sad tbh.

NTclaymore

personally I been testing sload on my Mag DK. I dropped my sun set for it and I can tell you that its a massive sacrefice. Skoria hits for less. Burning embers hit for less n so that means less healing for me. So from what I can tell is Sload is good to deal with those that relies too much on their shields to counter me. Something I couldnt do much against before. It does however severely hurt my ability to fight other DKs. my NB doesnt run sload since im a ganker. I need burst sets. not tick damage. n a quick note. Yes. Skoria can proc on sload. so thats nice for mag DKs. the sun set gives an overall DPS increase and with the nature of DK skills an overall healing increase. I can see why sorcerers hate it but once it gets fixed that it breaks cloak no one else would really mind it too much.

Chilly-McFreeze

NTclaymore wrote: »

Sload to me just seems like the counter to shieldspam that Shieldbreaker should have been. Shieldbreaker has 2-4 bonuses that focus on stamina making it hard to justify using it on a mag PvP build. Sload as stated above allready doesnt scale with anything like mag or stam so both types can use and us with tanks that still want to go thru the BG daily now have a set that allows us to actully do something in deathmatches. not much but something.

Is it a problem? I dont think so. Sets that boosts damage in general will hit harder. but that statboost doesnt show up on the death recap, you can only see the sets effect by the higher numbers on each skill making it harder to work out whats going on. Sload however appears in your death recap so its easier to blame it. that doesnt mean that its the problem.
Sload is allso easily available since its craftable while other sets that show up on your death recap like Caluurion and Zaan are not just locked behind DLC (you can ask someone to craft you sload, you cant ask someone to trade you Caluurion if you cant go to fang lair) they are allso not the easiest of dungeons and takes time to get.

No counterplay? It is "Just" 5k damage over actully quite a long time. the problem for shieldspammers is that it is the counter for what had no true counter before other than the too specialized Shieldbreaker. you can purge it and the whole "It will just be reapplied" that can be said about every dot in the game ever so that either makes purge useless or the arguement invalid. My nightblade after being hit by a coldfire would say purge seems usefull.

Does sload then needs fixing? YES. what you guys really should complain about is the fact that it ingores the suppression made by cloak and therefore pulls NBs out of stealth. That needs to addressed. that cant be intented. otherwise it seems fine to me. If you think the damage it does is behond anything else. take it to a training dummy and see the results in terms of actual DPS. its a shield counter thats not completely useless against non-sheld enemies. Its good but its not broken.

We told them how it pulls NBs from cloak multiple times during the pts. They didn’t changed it but they made changes to other sets. So I‘m almost certain it’s intended. I‘ll leave with this and not gonna start the whole „you only want a cheap way around“ thingy here...

Rianai

Skoria doesn't scale with stats, so dropping Sun won't affects its dmg. Basic game knowledge.
In oder to pull even with sloads, Sun would need to increase your tooltip/s by at least 1700 without CP (much more with CP). I doubt Sun gets you even close to this number.

Sloads is not a specific counter to shields. If you need a certain set to beat a certain class, the issue is on you. If a certain set allows you to beat someone, which you wouldn't beat otherwise, there is an issue with the set. Sets should not determine fights.

Sylosi

VexingArcanist wrote: »

Yes please everyone play a meta build specifically to counter an overtuned set. Yes you either play the meta or you play against it.

So slot skills just to counter this ONE set.

GOGO.

You've got it the wrong way round...

Certain things in this game have been overturned for years (shield stacking for example), so players have been used to being able to overly rely on that for defense and without the need to give any consideration to things like purges or even much beyond a minimal level to healing or resistances.

The general level of hypocrisy is also pretty amusing, people have been told plenty of times go play shield breaker (so told to go play something to counter a specific type of build), which was of course was not much use to most players because it was on a leather stam set only.

But now there is a set with oblivion damage that is available in light, medium or heavy, has stats that can be used on stam or magicka, essentially a set that is an option for more than just a minority, suddenly it becomes a problem when people do what they were told and actually go and play a set to soft counter shields, gotta love that hypocrisy.

Other than pulling NB out of stealth Sload's is fine, if people can't cope with 5k damage over 6 seconds or can't be bothered to slot a purge, because they are used to being OP with shields as their answer to everything, then well, that is probably why they are playing PvP in ESO and not DOTA, SC2, CS:GO, etc...

Chilly-McFreeze

Okay. Since you brought hypocrisy into play, I‘m gonna ask.

Why is it okay to throw over the main defense of one class but it’s not okay to throw over the main defense of another class?

I mean, if they would invest in purgeS, resistance/armor or even much beyond a minimal level of healing pulling from cloak should be no issue.

And what is up with your argument if this set isn’t actually intended as a counter to shields but also as a counter to cloak?

danno8

From what I can tell, the problem is that it stacks from multiple sources on one target. So you then have multiple sources of undodgable, uncloakable, unshieldable, unblockable damage.

Why not just make it non-stackable? This would make it valuable as a 1v1 or 1vX set, but not so powerful as an Xv1 set. No one uses this in PvE anyway so that wouldn't be an issue.

Rianai

People are complaining about cloak all the time, so accoring to your logic it is fine for the set to counter it. Why do you say otherwise?

Chilly-McFreeze

To add to my previous post: being available in all weights + good 2-4 stats are only part of why everyone uses Sloads over sb. Much more so because it *** over not only sorcs but NBs and every tank and non-Tank over as well

JackDaniell

Lord_Ninka wrote: »

Have you tested all these counters to make sure they actually work against Sload? I keep hearing it doesn't follow the normal ruleset.

If its doing anything strange its probably a bug rather than intended. Zenimax has been on a crusade to normalize all damage types into catagories and sloads fits into single target DOT and should follow its rules. Also if it follows the rules it shouldent be breaking cloak and i hear it has been doing this.

VexingArcanist

NTclaymore wrote: »

VexingArcanist wrote: »

Yes please everyone play a meta build specifically to counter an overtuned set. Yes you either play the meta or you play against it.

So slot skills just to counter this ONE set.

GOGO.

Or you know. Having to slot a full set to counter 1-2 skill. (hardend ward n healing ward)

abit of self healing wouldnt hurt in a PvP match either. you can still shieldspam. you just need to heal about 0.8k health per tick. mutagen once n you countered it.

So you got it here first folks, peeps need to back bar Resto staff to counter this set...hrm....or play a sorc? hrm....to counter ONE set....hrm....

DuskMarine

since everything that can buff it on certain builds you cant counter this which it was mad to counter tanks but screwed everyone else over that doesnt wear heavy armor

Sylosi

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Okay. Since you brought hypocrisy into play, I‘m gonna ask.

Why is it okay to throw over the main defense of one class but it’s not okay to throw over the main defense of another class?

I mean, if they would invest in purgeS, resistance/armor or even much beyond a minimal level of healing pulling from cloak should be no issue.

And what is up with your argument if this set isn’t actually intended as a counter to shields but also as a counter to cloak?

Well, I am assuming that the breaking of cloak is unintended, there is nothing on the set information about it breaking cloak, nor can I find anything stating it is an intended effect of oblivion damage, so it seems it should be suppressed by cloak, so I assume it is like the numerous other skills that have broken cloak after patches that shouldn't have, that eventually will get fixed.

Aside from that I would say the impact on cloak is far more severe than on shields, a shield is not completely nullified by Sload's, the oblivion damage ignores it, but the shield is still there negating the majority of the damage which is not oblivion, so it is a soft counter (which really is what games like this should aim for), cloak on the other hand is removed by it, so it is something of a hard counter, which is kind of crappy design in a game like this (though invisibility in an open world type PvP situation is crappy design also)

usmguy1234

You either embrace the darkness or let it consume you.

KraziJoe

There will always be a better set, just learn to adapt and overcome.

Chilly-McFreeze

Sylosi wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Okay. Since you brought hypocrisy into play, I‘m gonna ask.

Why is it okay to throw over the main defense of one class but it’s not okay to throw over the main defense of another class?

I mean, if they would invest in purgeS, resistance/armor or even much beyond a minimal level of healing pulling from cloak should be no issue.

And what is up with your argument if this set isn’t actually intended as a counter to shields but also as a counter to cloak?

Well, I am assuming that the breaking of cloak is unintended, there is nothing on the set information about it breaking cloak, nor can I find anything stating it is an intended effect of oblivion damage, so it seems it should be suppressed by cloak, so I assume it is like the numerous other skills that have broken cloak after patches that shouldn't have, that eventually will get fixed.

Aside from that I would say the impact on cloak is far more severe than on shields, a shield is not completely nullified by Sload's, the oblivion damage ignores it, but the shield is still there negating the majority of the damage which is not oblivion, so it is a soft counter (which really is what games like this should aim for), cloak on the other hand is removed by it, so it is something of a hard counter, which is kind of crappy design in a game like this (though invisibility in an open world type PvP situation is crappy design also)

Now we're getting closer.

I would say it's intended since we informed ZOS during the PTS of the cloak breaking effect. They changed drop sets after a while but not the cloak break of sloads. So that's at least my guess.

Also, it says that oblivion dmg is not to be mitigated by any means. Means that cloak shouldn't mitigate via surpression either.

Although I agree on the hardcounter thingy. Same for SB and Sorcs. Hardcounters shouldn't exist, but atm they do. So why should NBs get an edge here? Only way that would be "somewhat fair" is not pulling from cloak bot not surpressing sloads either. Don't know if they can code that tho.

josiahva

VexingArcanist wrote: »

Yes please everyone play a meta build specifically to counter an overtuned set. Yes you either play the meta or you play against it.

So slot skills just to counter this ONE set.

GOGO.

lol, its just another DoT, and not a particularly strong one, big deal if it goes through shields, who cares? Is it so hard not to rely on your shield crutch to survive? I see this as no worse than Viper myself, or any number of other DoT proc sets...it is only more effective than those against shield spammers...against everyone else its the same.

ezio45

JackDaniell wrote: »

Just gonna drop a bit of info regarding counters to sloads but more specificly counters to a DOT/condition build.

Efficient purge removes 2 negative effects AND halves the duration of negative effects for 4 secconds. This means that even if your purge removes no DOTs, it still cuts a massive amout of damage away (up to 50% if you purge right away). Allot of people do not take this seccondary and arguably better effect into account when evaluating this skill for anti DOT gameplay. This is by far the most availible purge to everyone and only requires you to slot it and not have abysmal mag sustain as YOU DONT NEED TO SPAM IT!

Mutagen removes one negative effect and heals you when you drop below 20% hp. This is a cheap condition removal skill that can help out if your running resto.

Wyrd tree set removes 5 negative effects every 15 secconds when you cast a magicka skill. You can run this set on a backbar to preserve a damage front bar, and jewlery crafting means you can use this with ideal jewlery traits now. This is a seriously good set for adding counter DOT play to a mag build (even stam build as they can utilize the mag recovery it gives).

Meridias blessed armor 5 peice will cause you opponent to miss all attacks for 5 secconds when you block an attack. This includes DOTs! This is a particularly good set as it also offers a huge defensive bonus against non DOT gameplay and is the best choice for a stamina anti DOT set (but can yet again work for mag to thanks to jewlery crafting).

Templar gets the best purge as a class skill, if you really cant deal with sloads try out templar in pvp. They literaly just shrug dots off and you will find sets like sloads a non issue.

Warden gets 1 negative effect removal from betty netch, this is the only "free" purge skill in the game (you actualy gain magicka when you cast it) but it is not very strong.

I hope this helps some people out. Regarding sloads as a set i think its fine (comparable to sheer venom or vipers sting). If I run counter play to it i have no issues fighting it. If the set is bugged and does not function as the tooltip states it should be fixed to function as such.

So should sloads be nerfed? No i dont think so. Conditions/DOTs have always been a part of PvP and people for the most part dont normaly run counter play to it (cant beat rock with scissors). If anything i would love to see ZOS add some more sources of purge/condition counterplay to the game. We have some good options but i dont think its nearly enough!

really?

i have 10+ negative effects on me in any 1 fight.... purge is essentially random at that point

2 yes mutagen is a heal.... it also can go to not you while fighting

not even going to include the armor ones because there just completely not viable

Chilly-McFreeze

josiahva wrote: »

VexingArcanist wrote: »

Yes please everyone play a meta build specifically to counter an overtuned set. Yes you either play the meta or you play against it.

So slot skills just to counter this ONE set.

GOGO.

lol, its just another DoT, and not a particularly strong one, big deal if it goes through shields, who cares? Is it so hard not to rely on your shield crutch to survive? I see this as no worse than Viper myself, or any number of other DoT proc sets...it is only more effective than those against shield spammers...against everyone else its the same.

1) Which other reliable ways of defense do magsorcs have? Streak isn't as good as some people make it out to be. Surge is mainly RNG. Dark Deal is a channel. Pets are suboptimal in open world.

2) I'd say NBs suffer more from this set than "shield spammers". But what do I know.

josiahva

ezio45 wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Just gonna drop a bit of info regarding counters to sloads but more specificly counters to a DOT/condition build.

Efficient purge removes 2 negative effects AND halves the duration of negative effects for 4 secconds. This means that even if your purge removes no DOTs, it still cuts a massive amout of damage away (up to 50% if you purge right away). Allot of people do not take this seccondary and arguably better effect into account when evaluating this skill for anti DOT gameplay. This is by far the most availible purge to everyone and only requires you to slot it and not have abysmal mag sustain as YOU DONT NEED TO SPAM IT!

Mutagen removes one negative effect and heals you when you drop below 20% hp. This is a cheap condition removal skill that can help out if your running resto.

Wyrd tree set removes 5 negative effects every 15 secconds when you cast a magicka skill. You can run this set on a backbar to preserve a damage front bar, and jewlery crafting means you can use this with ideal jewlery traits now. This is a seriously good set for adding counter DOT play to a mag build (even stam build as they can utilize the mag recovery it gives).

Meridias blessed armor 5 peice will cause you opponent to miss all attacks for 5 secconds when you block an attack. This includes DOTs! This is a particularly good set as it also offers a huge defensive bonus against non DOT gameplay and is the best choice for a stamina anti DOT set (but can yet again work for mag to thanks to jewlery crafting).

Templar gets the best purge as a class skill, if you really cant deal with sloads try out templar in pvp. They literaly just shrug dots off and you will find sets like sloads a non issue.

Warden gets 1 negative effect removal from betty netch, this is the only "free" purge skill in the game (you actualy gain magicka when you cast it) but it is not very strong.

I hope this helps some people out. Regarding sloads as a set i think its fine (comparable to sheer venom or vipers sting). If I run counter play to it i have no issues fighting it. If the set is bugged and does not function as the tooltip states it should be fixed to function as such.

So should sloads be nerfed? No i dont think so. Conditions/DOTs have always been a part of PvP and people for the most part dont normaly run counter play to it (cant beat rock with scissors). If anything i would love to see ZOS add some more sources of purge/condition counterplay to the game. We have some good options but i dont think its nearly enough!

really?

i have 10+ negative effects on me in any 1 fight.... purge is essentially random at that point

2 yes mutagen is a heal.... it also can go to not you while fighting

not even going to include the armor ones because there just completely not viable

Why arent the armor sets viable? They are all useful against more than just Sload's that's like saying Impen as a trait isnt viable because only a few PvP players stack crit

Wreuntzylla

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Okay. Since you brought hypocrisy into play, I‘m gonna ask.

Why is it okay to throw over the main defense of one class but it’s not okay to throw over the main defense of another class?

I mean, if they would invest in purgeS, resistance/armor or even much beyond a minimal level of healing pulling from cloak should be no issue.

And what is up with your argument if this set isn’t actually intended as a counter to shields but also as a counter to cloak?

It was that or nerf shields, the only thing that lets some people run maelstrom arena.

Talking about arena, Permafrost negates alot of the sload damage...

pieratsos

You know things are bad when we literally got to the point of discussing how we all have to wear specific sets to counter other specific sets.