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The artificial delay of the Dragon Bones motifs for Crown Store marketing
code65536
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When Summerset launched, the patch notes said, "The Fang Lair and Scalecaller Motif chapters and Style Items will begin dropping from their respective dungeons shortly after the launch of Summerset."
The bolded portion was rather unusual--and unprecedented. Until now, every new in-game motif (except for limited-time holiday event motifs, of course) had been available immediately--never before had there been a delay like this. But these motifs were delayed, for an unspecified reason, until an unspecified time. (And yes, the motifs are indeed delayed--I and others have verified that they are currently not dropping in-game.)
Well, with today's Crown Store showcase, it seems that ZOS had finally answered.
It's not entirely clear how we are to interpret these two statements, but it seems like that the in-game availability is being delayed to coincide with Crown Store availability. And if this is indeed the case, then it is, frankly, a giant insult.
This is unprecedented--in the past, ZOS had the courtesy of releasing motifs on the CS after a period of time of exclusive in-game sourcing. Motifs were treated as a way to encourage people to engage with the content and to... well, play the game. But now? Instead of being enticements to play the game, they are enticements to open your wallet. Not only does this cheapen the fruits of gameplay, it also signals an alarming shift from ZOS--from the primacy of gameplay to the primacy of the Crown Store.
Furthermore, ZOS is salting this wound by the way in which they are doing this--specifically, by artificially delaying in-game availability. The style mats for the motifs are already dropping. Master writs requiring these motifs are already dropping. And yet they are artificially delaying the motif release not for any legitimate gameplay reason, but purely for the purposes of driving Crown Store sales.
Frankly, this is the kind of brazen disrespect that makes me question why I still support this game.
@ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Please tell me that I'm misinterpreting the text in the article. Please tell me that you have not become so craven as to so blatantly prioritize the Crown Store over actual in-game activity.
The bolded portion was rather unusual--and unprecedented. Until now, every new in-game motif (except for limited-time holiday event motifs, of course) had been available immediately--never before had there been a delay like this. But these motifs were delayed, for an unspecified reason, until an unspecified time. (And yes, the motifs are indeed delayed--I and others have verified that they are currently not dropping in-game.)
Well, with today's Crown Store showcase, it seems that ZOS had finally answered.
The Fang Lair Crafting Motif will be available in the Crown Store on all platforms starting on June 27. Please note that this Crafting Motif will also be available by completing Fang Lair Dungeon content via the in-game Activity Finder.
The Scalecaller Crafting Motif will be available in the Crown Store on all platforms starting on June 27. Please note that this Crafting Motif will also be available by completing Scalecaller content via the in-game Activity Finder.
It's not entirely clear how we are to interpret these two statements, but it seems like that the in-game availability is being delayed to coincide with Crown Store availability. And if this is indeed the case, then it is, frankly, a giant insult.
This is unprecedented--in the past, ZOS had the courtesy of releasing motifs on the CS after a period of time of exclusive in-game sourcing. Motifs were treated as a way to encourage people to engage with the content and to... well, play the game. But now? Instead of being enticements to play the game, they are enticements to open your wallet. Not only does this cheapen the fruits of gameplay, it also signals an alarming shift from ZOS--from the primacy of gameplay to the primacy of the Crown Store.
Furthermore, ZOS is salting this wound by the way in which they are doing this--specifically, by artificially delaying in-game availability. The style mats for the motifs are already dropping. Master writs requiring these motifs are already dropping. And yet they are artificially delaying the motif release not for any legitimate gameplay reason, but purely for the purposes of driving Crown Store sales.
Frankly, this is the kind of brazen disrespect that makes me question why I still support this game.
@ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Please tell me that I'm misinterpreting the text in the article. Please tell me that you have not become so craven as to so blatantly prioritize the Crown Store over actual in-game activity.
Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:
Personal best scores:
Dungeon trifectas:
- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:
- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― Raidificator
PC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff Panels
Other Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information
25
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Fang_of_Lorkhaj✭✭✭✭I'm for this delay. So much that's going to be happening the drop of Summerset tomorrow.0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Im REALLY hoping we dont have to wait all month to farm them in game. Ive been anticipating the Fang Lair style tor a long time.
CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭snip Not only does this cheapen the fruits of gameplay, it also signals an alarming shift from ZOS--from the primacy of gameplay to the primacy of the Crown Store.
This is the first time you've noticed this?
PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS1 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yep, guess they're completely moving away from the whole "we won't release it on the cash shop until a certain number of people got it through gameplay" thing.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster3 -
Peekachu99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I’d rather buy it than grind those instances with half-wits who think they’re capable of HM FL/ SP, sorry. I got my skin and personality and I have people that I run with regularly, but theyr’e not always on and I also like to pug. I’ll buy the motifs and make good money on the sales I get off drops from non-HM (they drop frequently enough without HM).3 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭...never before had there been a delay like this.
Trinimac, Malacath.
Thieves Guild, Abah's Watch.
Redoran, Hlaalu, Tevanni
Clockwork/Refabricated
Ra Gada
Yokudan
Draugr
Lich
Dreadhorn, Bloodforge
Yeah... they've never offered a motif in game, then asked you to wait a bit before it was available for crafting.Edited by starkerealm on June 4, 2018 8:01PM1 -
ZOS_JesCadminGreetings, we've removed a few comments that were baiting in nature. This is a reminder to keep comments on topic and away from personal insults. Thank you for your understanding.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »...never before had there been a delay like this.
Trinimac, Malacath.
Thieves Guild, Abah's Watch.
Redoran, Hlaalu, Tevanni
Clockwork/Refabricated
Ra Gada
Yokudan
Draugr
Lich
Dreadhorn, Bloodforge
Yeah... they've never offered a motif in game, then asked you to wait a bit before it was available for crafting.
Yes, it's pretty common for a style to appear in the game as a dropped armor set or as something worn by NPCs and then after some major updates, appear as a craftable motif. That's normal.
But in every one of those cases, the major update that introduced the craftable motif had that motif obtainable on day 1 of that patch.
The Fang Lair and Scalecaller styles first appeared months ago as dropped armor and NPC armor in the DB dungeons. They became craftable motifs in Summerset. But they are not dropping in Summerset, at least not yet. And for reasons that are disheartening.Edited by code65536 on June 4, 2018 8:10PMNightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information2 -
Ardan147✭✭✭✭They could have at least not had master writs that require those styles drop until it was possible to get those styles in-game!This creature called a songbird. What a devious creation! This winged nuisance erodes sanity with its incessant chirping. What a brilliant form of torture!2
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code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is better to pay ZOS, than elitist players that farm DLC dungeons for profit.
What about paying the players who fish for profit? (Pyandonean motif) What about paying the players who PvP? (Akaviri and Ordinator motifs)
Why interact with the player economy at all, when you can just pay ZOS? /sNightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information4 -
Incognitius✭✭✭✭✭Quite unhappy with this. Ever since I saw the promo pictures of the outfitting system, I've been wanting these motifs. I trained to do these dungeons, so I could farm them. When Summerset dropped, the very first evening, I went into Fang Lair, got to the final boss when the server crashed. Later I heard that the motifs weren't dropping it all.
I also had to cancel a masterwrit I accidentally accepted that used this motif.
What an odd thing to say. o_O It's always better to use fictional money than real money.It is better to pay ZOS, than elitist players that farm DLC dungeons for profit.2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »...never before had there been a delay like this.
Trinimac, Malacath.
Thieves Guild, Abah's Watch.
Redoran, Hlaalu, Tevanni
Clockwork/Refabricated
Ra Gada
Yokudan
Draugr
Lich
Dreadhorn, Bloodforge
Yeah... they've never offered a motif in game, then asked you to wait a bit before it was available for crafting.
Yes, it's pretty common for a style to appear in the game as a dropped armor set or as something worn by NPCs and then after some major updates, appear as a craftable motif. That's normal.
But in every one of those cases, the major update that introduced the craftable motif had that motif obtainable on day 1 of that patch.
The Fang Lair and Scalecaller styles first appeared months ago as dropped armor and NPC armor in the DB dungeons. They became craftable motifs in Summerset. But they are not dropping in Summerset, at least not yet. And for reasons that are disheartening.
As I recall, that's exactly what happened with BA. Ostensibly it was added with Morrowind, but wasn't actually lootable for nearly a month after.
Honestly, the big problem is just that those two motifs got added to the drop list for master writs, so we're already stockpiling impossible to complete motifs from that.0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »As I recall, that's exactly what happened with BA. Ostensibly it was added with Morrowind, but wasn't actually lootable for nearly a month after.
The BA drop rate was very low and had to be "fixed". But it definitely was dropping at launch--you can search the forums with a date filter to see the anecdotal reports of drops that people had from back then.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information1 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭When Summerset launched,
STOP right there.
Summerset has not launched yet.
Every single ad for the chapter has stated it launches June 5.
Is it june 5 yet? No. So Summerset has not launched.
The reason that they haven't been dropping for you pc people in this PRE LAUNCH period is because Summerset does not launch until tomorrow.
You've been playing the chapter in the time period BEFORE the rockets blast off the launchpad. The T-Minus countdown has not yet reached zero for launch time.
The drops won't start until a short time after TOMORROW'S LAUNCH.Xbox NA1 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When Summerset launched,
STOP right there.
Summerset has not launched yet.
Every single ad for the chapter has stated it launches June 5.
Is it june 5 yet? No. So Summerset has not launched.
The reason that they haven't been dropping for you pc people in this PRE LAUNCH period is because Summerset does not launch until tomorrow.
You've been playing the chapter in the time period BEFORE the rockets blast off the launchpad. The T-Minus countdown has not yet reached zero for launch time.
The drops won't start until a short time after TOMORROW'S LAUNCH.
LOL! Summerset launched on May 21 for PC/Mac. This "early release" nonsense is just marketing mumbo jumbo for the flimsy illusion that somehow console and PC launch dates are unified. It's an illusion that ZOS barely tries to keep up, as all their current marketing materials say "PC/Mac available now". Every major update--whether it's a chapter or a DLC--has the PC launch happening two weeks before console. The window dressing that marketing puts on is irrelevant.
Repeat after me, Summerset launched on May 21 for PC. That also happened to be when Pyandonean, Psijic, and Sapiarch motifs became available in-game. The new motifs introduced in Morrowind last year became available on day 1 of the actual PC launch, not two weeks later on the day of the marketing "launch". Doesn't quite fit with your June 5 narrative, does it?
In any case, as I noted in my opening post, ZOS's wording is ambiguous. Most people interpret it as meaning that the motifs will become available in-game on the 27th, but perhaps that's not the right interpretation, and they might be available earlier--perhaps June 5. And I really, really hope that I'm wrong and you're right and that it's actually June 5. But I doubt that we would see such a happy ending.Edited by code65536 on June 5, 2018 4:22AMNightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information1 -
LOL! Summerset launched on May 21 for PC/Mac. This "early release" nonsense is just marketing mumbo jumbo for the flimsy illusion that somehow console and PC launch dates are unified. It's an illusion that ZOS barely tries to keep up, as all their current marketing materials say "PC/Mac available now". Every major update--whether it's a chapter or a DLC--has the PC launch happening two weeks before console. The window dressing that marketing puts on is irrelevant.
Nope. Launch is on the 5th. PC got early access. Sure, it´s semantics but officially launch is the 5th. It´s everywhere, on the banners, the ads, everywhere. So technically, when ZOS says the motifs drop shortly after launch, its "shortly" after today, which could very well mean on the 27th.1 -
Cazzy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This doesn't make sense to me. You can buy it or get it free presumably on the same day?0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is just a reminder for those who can't handle discussions about this game having P2W aspects as to why they shouldn't be so disagreeable. For a long time many of you have tried to deny P2W aspects and shift the goal posts of what P2W is. No, spending money on parts of this game isn't just inane and cosmetic - spending can come with benefits that often become crystallized into greater ability to earn gold or gear.
Make no mistakes, I don't necessarily have an issue with P2W aspects, but I do take issue with the constant denial about P2W existing and the result of P2W which is anti-consumer or even predatory business practices. Now just maybe, if more people had not been so quick to dismiss concerns about this games monetizing because of those aspects not being sufficiently P2W, then it is possible that such anti-consumer practices, as pointed out in the OP, could have been warded off.
And before anyone wants to split hairs here, yes, ZOS can use whatever monetizing efforts that they decide are best. Despite what ZOS can and can't do, calling out such practices, for the purpose of improving the game, is important. It is also important to for the players to form a bulwark against such practices from happening in the first place by being an informed group of people who work together. Instead of creating such a defense for their own benefit, many players like to tut tut about how everything ZOS does is really just okay and that if someone doesn't like it, then they can develop their own game.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »This is just a reminder for those who can't handle discussions about this game having P2W aspects as to why they shouldn't be so disagreeable. For a long time many of you have tried to deny P2W aspects and shift the goal posts of what P2W is. No, spending money on parts of this game isn't just inane and cosmetic - spending can come with benefits that often become crystallized into greater ability to earn gold or gear.
*Rolls Eyes*
There is no (intentional) P2W in ESO to any meaningful degree. Just some balance issues with Wardens.1 -
Stinkyremy✭✭✭✭✭"this Crafting Motif will also be available by completing Scalecaller content via the in-game Activity Finder."
What is the deal here, can someone explain. I was under the assumption (and I think I read via official notice) that the SCP and FL motifs drop like any other of the DLC dungeon motifs, small chance drop on normal, medium chance to drop on vet, guaranteed to drop vet HM.
So is this true, we just get the motifs from doing the LFG daily on these dungeons?0
