Best Meta in three Years?

Ishammael

Defile
Sloads
Rune Cage
Bleeds
Time Stop

Best meta in three years?

PS. What the heck happened to Battle spirit?

Anrose

I never thought I’d look back at the days of the Aprocalypse when Viper, Red Mountain, Tremorscale, Velidreth, and Selene stood as champions amongst men on the battlefield and smile, but here we are.

Vilestride

Black rose needs to make a return.

I miss the days of just having to mix and match sets with good 2 3 4 bonuses to get the best max stat value. Simpler times.

zyk

Vilestride wrote: »

Black rose needs to make a return.

I miss the days of just having to mix and match sets with good 2 3 4 bonuses to get the best max stat value. Simpler times.

ESO 2.1 (Imperial City) and 2.2 (Orsinium) were best patches for that. It was before many cheesy sets had been updated to the level cap (V16 at the time).

It was also before ZOS began its effort to "raise the floor and lower the ceiling" -- in the words of @ZOS_RichLambert. That means they made PVP easier for bad players and limited the ability of good players to excel. The idea was the make the game more accessible. That's fine for PVE, but a disaster for PVP.

Plus it didn't really work. Casuals still get farmed and have a miserable time outside of a zerg. It just made mediocre players more effective at farming them.

I really miss those patches.

PVP was also MUCH more popular back then. Instead of making it easier for slow and casual players to kill quick and hardcore players, ZOS should have developed systems to segment the player base so casuals were fighting casuals more often and hardcore players were fighting hardcore players.

Dyride

Early 1.6, before some people had 700+ cp versus other players being 150-300 cp, was one of the best states for the game. Maybe it was because the system was so new and people hadn't figured out the balance in sustain we lost going into champ points versus the damage we quickly gained.

Realistically I wish they could just cut the CP gains in half. But procs are even stronger when you can forgo any need to sustain.

zyk

Dyride wrote: »

Early 1.6, before some people had 700+ cp versus other players being 150-300 cp, was one of the best states for the game. Maybe it was because the system was so new and people hadn't figured out the balance in sustain we lost going into champ points versus the damage we quickly gained.

Realistically I wish they could just cut the CP gains in half. But procs are even stronger when you can forgo any need to sustain.

I liked 1.6 too, but it had a lot of problems like the original nirnhoned armor trait, the penetration bug, etc...

2.2 (Orsinum) was essentially a refined 1.6 IMO. It fixed a lot of its problems and was the patch before a lot of drastic changes began.

It's amazing that ZOS went in the direction it did with proc sets despite the near-unanimous hate for camohunter builds.

Kadoin

Anrose wrote: »

I never thought I’d look back at the days of the Aprocalypse when Viper, Red Mountain, Tremorscale, Velidreth, and Selene stood as champions amongst men on the battlefield and smile, but here we are.

It's nowhere near that level...

Dreyloch

I have dubbed thee...The Soap Bubble META!! (tm)

Because that's what time stop looks like. A swirling rainbow soap bubble of doom if your caught in it! LOL

Derra

I kinda like the patch from storc, msorc and magblade perspective.

Most of the issues i see come from medium armor being not competetive infight imo.

Lucky28

Derra wrote: »

I kinda like the patch from storc, msorc and magblade perspective.

Most of the issues i see come from medium armor being not competetive infight imo.

damage wise yeah. however, my best magblade setup uses Crushing shock and Incap (just as i said on the PTS) and with this setup i can kill about as quick as a stamblade can. but i'd give it all up to have strife back, as of now tho my class spammable is not even a consideration. costs to much damage is too low healing i can get elsewhere. a *** situation all around for strife.

so basically. magblade has been reduced to a stamblade/sorc hybrid thing.

chris211

Ishammael wrote: »

Defile
Sloads
Rune Cage
Bleeds
Time Stop

Best meta in three years?

PS. What the heck happened to Battle spirit?

nah best meta is sloads + durogs bane dual wield master daggers with drain or cost poisons and zan's gg

Ishammael

chris211 wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Defile
Sloads
Rune Cage
Bleeds
Time Stop

Best meta in three years?

PS. What the heck happened to Battle spirit?

nah best meta is sloads + durogs bane dual wield master daggers with drain or cost poisons and zan's gg

"Meta" doesn't mean a particular build. It means the sets of things which describe or comprise how players choose to play, given knowledge of the rules of the game. Certainly popular builds will become manifest in any given meta.

Regardless, Zaan and cost poisons are something I forgot to list.

_Salty_

Thieves guild was the last time PvP was enjoyable. Dark brotherhood introduced poisons the proc meta and heavy meta. One Tam pushed the proc meta over the edge and intruduced deatro ult trains. The game has been sliding hard ever since.

zyk

_Salty_ wrote: »

Thieves guild was the last time PvP was enjoyable. Dark brotherhood introduced poisons the proc meta and heavy meta. One Tam pushed the proc meta over the edge and intruduced deatro ult trains. The game has been sliding hard ever since.

Yeah, but 2.3 also ruined the original Clouding Swarm, introduced the original Fasalla's, and the bombard spam was completely unbearable.

Ishammael wrote: »

chris211 wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Defile
Sloads
Rune Cage
Bleeds
Time Stop

Best meta in three years?

PS. What the heck happened to Battle spirit?

nah best meta is sloads + durogs bane dual wield master daggers with drain or cost poisons and zan's gg

"Meta" doesn't mean a particular build. It means the sets of things which describe or comprise how players choose to play, given knowledge of the rules of the game. Certainly popular builds will become manifest in any given meta.

Regardless, Zaan and cost poisons are something I forgot to list.

IMO, meta is a pretty flexible term and others use it in different contexts such as dueling meta, class metas, large/small group meta, etc...

When I first read your post, I thought it was sarcastic, but now I'm not sure! Do you like this meta?

Lexxypwns

1.3 or GTFO

OdinForge

I'd take back 1.5 any day.

I'd also take back early 1.6 with capped CP and some of the major bugs fixed.

zyk

OdinForge wrote: »

I'd also take back early 1.6 with capped CP and some of the major bugs fixed.

Wasn't that 2.2 though? I understand Battlespirit was changed in 2.1, but for the most part that offset power creep from CP and the introduction of new items (IC gear, vMA weapons).

I loved IC -- especially the nb changes (siphoning attacks for one) and liked the CP cap in 2.2.

2.2 did have some big downsides. That's when the 30-50% FPS drop bug was introduced (still not fixed) and loading screen issues in Cyrodiil became 100x worse, but at a gameplay level, it was very good.

For those unfamiliar with the different versions:

1.5 was the last version of launch gameplay [approx nov 2014 - march 2015]
1.6 was a major revamp that introduced the CP system, removed soft caps, greatly expanded the AE cap, and made stamina builds widely viable
2.0 was the same as 1.6 but added B2P and the Crown Store [summer 2015]
2.1 Imperial City (many nice refinements, Battle Spirit change) [sept 2015]
2.2 Orsinium (vMA, CP cap) [nov 2015]
2.3 Thieves Guild (vicious death, bombard spam, etc) [march 2016]
2.4 Darkbrotherhood (heavy armor revamp, poisons, proc sets) [june 2016]
2.5 Shadows of the Hist [summer 2016]
2.6 One Tamriel [oct 2016]
2.7 Homestead [feb 2017]
3.0 Morrowind [may 2017]
3.1 Horns of the Reach (earthgore) [aug 2017]
3.2 Clockwork City [oct 2017]
3.3 Dragon Bones [feb 2018]
4.0 Summerset [may 2018]

Dates are approximate..

Talcyndl

I think the anti-heal morph of time stop is a great zerg/ball group counter. It's very short duration and requires the channel cast, so it's not too overpowered.

olsborg

Defile needs a rework(nerf), if you dont run a defile youre not doing cyrodiil right at this point, this needs to change.

Prince_of_all_Pugs

Dyride wrote: »

Early 1.6, before some people had 700+ cp versus other players being 150-300 cp, was one of the best states for the game. Maybe it was because the system was so new and people hadn't figured out the balance in sustain we lost going into champ points versus the damage we quickly gained.

Realistically I wish they could just cut the CP gains in half. But procs are even stronger when you can forgo any need to sustain.

i remeber when Dark Synner had 1400 cp and got emp, it was nuts.

SwampRaider

_Salty_ wrote: »

Thieves guild was the last time PvP was enjoyable. Dark brotherhood introduced poisons the proc meta and heavy meta. One Tam pushed the proc meta over the edge and intruduced deatro ult trains. The game has been sliding hard ever since.

As a stam sorc (rapids ***) in a destro ult train, i take offense sir! I enjoy busting zergs and getting 300+k ap per night.

But lets be real, the meta I miss the most is the barrier+ warhorn+negate impulse trains.

Twohothardware

olsborg wrote: »

Defile needs a rework(nerf), if you dont run a defile youre not doing cyrodiil right at this point, this needs to change.

Befoul needs to be removed from the CP tree. The game never needed increased healing reduction above what Major Defile already gives at 30%. It's what made StamNB and all sources of Defile as rediclously unbalanced as it's become when you can pump a measly 56 CP into Befoul and get 50%+ healing reduction on someone. With the number of sources for Defile right now they might as well just remove defile from the game altogether and add a 100% healing reduction while in Cyrodiil.

Xvorg

Twohothardware wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Defile needs a rework(nerf), if you dont run a defile youre not doing cyrodiil right at this point, this needs to change.

Befoul needs to be removed from the CP tree. The game never needed increased healing reduction above what Major Defile already gives at 30%. It's what made StamNB and all sources of Defile as rediclously unbalanced as it's become when you can pump a measly 56 CP into Befoul and get 50%+ healing reduction on someone. With the number of sources for Defile right now they might as well just remove defile from the game altogether and add a 100% healing reduction while in Cyrodiil.

I would leav it excactly as it is now but I'll take away the healing reduction in Cyrodiil

Ishammael

zyk wrote: »

_Salty_ wrote: »

Thieves guild was the last time PvP was enjoyable. Dark brotherhood introduced poisons the proc meta and heavy meta. One Tam pushed the proc meta over the edge and intruduced deatro ult trains. The game has been sliding hard ever since.

Yeah, but 2.3 also ruined the original Clouding Swarm, introduced the original Fasalla's, and the bombard spam was completely unbearable.

Ishammael wrote: »

chris211 wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Defile
Sloads
Rune Cage
Bleeds
Time Stop

Best meta in three years?

PS. What the heck happened to Battle spirit?

nah best meta is sloads + durogs bane dual wield master daggers with drain or cost poisons and zan's gg

"Meta" doesn't mean a particular build. It means the sets of things which describe or comprise how players choose to play, given knowledge of the rules of the game. Certainly popular builds will become manifest in any given meta.

Regardless, Zaan and cost poisons are something I forgot to list.

IMO, meta is a pretty flexible term and others use it in different contexts such as dueling meta, class metas, large/small group meta, etc...

When I first read your post, I thought it was sarcastic, but now I'm not sure! Do you like this meta?

Clearly the OP was sarcastic.
The things listed are not particularly defensible in terms of balance, funfactor, contribution to the game.

IxSTALKERxI

Best meta's / updates in order were:

Update 11 (2.5) Shadow of the hist - Game balance was very good, had to break free of negate etc. Update 10 Dark Brotherhood was good to.
Update 5 (1.5) Dynamic ult, ground oils, soft caps, no cp, ability lag was quite bad though
Update 7&8 (2.1 & 2.2) IC update, battle spirit change stuffed things up a little like dk's and made zergs quite hard to kill, but apart from that was quite good and bombblade with clouding swarm was OP. Update 8 the CP cap was added which was even better.)
Update 14 Morrowind - Was actually quite decent before earthgore was added to the game in update 15.
Update 17 Dragon Bones - AoE cap removal was great but still some imbalance.

Worst meta's / updates in order were:

Update 9 (2.3) Thieves guild - Worst update ever. Most Bugs ever. Clouding Swarm broken, purge broken, unable to move, vicious death cheese. Fortunately it coincided with BDO release.
Update 12 One Tamriel - Destro ult - huge power creep - item sets in jewlery - Very bad balance.
Update 18 Summerset - Still early days but I think there is a storm brewing lol. Time stop, op jewlery/ set combo's, bugs etc... just wait and see.
Update 15 Hotr - Would of been a great update if it wasn't for earthgore.

zyk

Ishammael wrote: »

Clearly the OP was sarcastic.
The things listed are not particularly defensible in terms of balance, funfactor, contribution to the game.

I agree 100%. I don't know how anyone can enjoy PVP in its current state. But I've felt that way since Earthgore was introduced and in a broader sense, since 2.3.

I ran in an Earthgore group for a bit in 3.2 and though I enjoyed playing with my guild and the interesting group comp our leaders came up with, it was very unfulfilling. There were times when we'd just chat and barely pay attention while sieging a door while oil poured on us and opponents attacked.

Stalker had a video of him soloing a resource on a PTS with only light attacks, mutagen and 3x proc sets. He just stood on the flag and the light attacks were to trigger the damage procs. Earthgore to the rescue....

I experimented with proc sets in solo play later and found them to be completely unfulfilling. Even with a defensive set and just Selene, my stamblade would kill most players under 25k health in one combo. And that wasn't close to going full proctard. Meh.

Joy_Division

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Best meta's / updates in order were:

Update 11 (2.5) Shadow of the hist - Game balance was very good, had to break free of negate etc. Update 10 Dark Brotherhood was good to.
Update 5 (1.5) Dynamic ult, ground oils, soft caps, no cp, ability lag was quite bad though
Update 7&8 (2.1 & 2.2) IC update, battle spirit change stuffed things up a little like dk's and made zergs quite hard to kill, but apart from that was quite good and bombblade with clouding swarm was OP. Update 8 the CP cap was added which was even better.)
Update 14 Morrowind - Was actually quite decent before earthgore was added to the game in update 15.
Update 17 Dragon Bones - AoE cap removal was great but still some imbalance.

Worst meta's / updates in order were:

Update 9 (2.3) Thieves guild - Worst update ever. Most Bugs ever. Clouding Swarm broken, purge broken, unable to move, vicious death cheese. Fortunately it coincided with BDO release.
Update 12 One Tamriel - Destro ult - huge power creep - item sets in jewlery - Very bad balance.
Update 18 Summerset - Still early days but I think there is a storm brewing lol. Time stop, op jewlery/ set combo's, bugs etc... just wait and see.
Update 15 Hotr - Would of been a great update if it wasn't for earthgore.

To me everything is a blur after 1.5 because it's all just over-nerfed classes, out of control CP system, proc set of the day, and a constant uphill battle against ZOS's many efforts to "raise the floor" that have made play and counter-play frustrating.

I don;t see nearly as much difference between say 14 and 15 or 17 and 18 as you and others do.

DDuke

Easily the worst update in the history of ESO for a medium armor user.


After Dragon Bones update we started seeing some light at the end of the tunnel (dodgeable Power Lash etc), but it only turned out to be an incoming Rune Cage combo with some cloak-breaking sloads sprinkled on top of it.

frozywozy

Derra wrote: »

I kinda like the patch from storc, msorc and magblade perspective.

Most of the issues i see come from medium armor being not competetive infight imo.

I played alot of StamDK medium this patch. You kinda have to play like a stamblade but without cloak. Lot of quick plays (gap close + hit + dodge run + LoS against multiple). In general I have been having alot of fun. I agree it's nowhere near other armor classes.

frozywozy

I don't like this kind of thread where people speak about their favorite patch in general and mention that they would like to roll back to what it was back there. I believe that every patch made the game better in general. Some aspects went downhill and some uphill but overall we are progressing.

I am sad that it takes so much time for people to clear out the new pve content and go back into PvP land every new major update. I wish people would show more interests in PvPing no matter what. I can't blame them thought.. until we get new content added into Cyrodiil, there aren't real motivations to bring people here. And until performances are really smooth, why would we have new content that would just make it worse.

Lexxypwns

@Ishammael you gonna reroll a stam sorc with Duroks+Sload and master’s DW?