Damage over the top - especially on mag sorcs and mag nb?

Aedaryl

The Time to Kill has descrease because damage increased.

There is 2 teams, the one hwo prefer a short time to kill and the one hwo prefer a much longer one.

I personally like how the TTK is this patch.

Feanor

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

It is like we are back 2 years ago again. High damage no tanks no sustain needed. Inb4 they nerf tanks and sustain again.

Yeah, this patch is like 1.6 all over again. I hated 1.6.

This patch is -nothing- like 1.6

True, 1.6 was this:

Welcome to The Elder Scrolls Online v1.6.5, our sixth and largest major content update thus far! We have many significant new features in store for you.

In this update, we’ve added the first phase of the Justice System. This will allow you to commit criminal actions throughout Tamriel such as theft, burglary, pickpocketing and murdering NPCs. We’ve also implemented the third phase of the Champion System, which introduces Champion Points and an entirely new UI where you can use these points to unlock passive abilities. We encourage you to check out the details below to learn how both these systems will work.

Accompanying the Champion System are gameplay improvements, fixes, and rebalancing. This will alter the way you’ve previously played as every ability has been amended in some fashion, differences in armor are more pronounced, critical attack and defense are handled differently, and the scale of numbers across the board has changed. Due to these changes, we will be resetting all skill and attribute points.

[...]

Additional new features include the highly-anticipated Provisioning revamp, plus the new Collections UI, improved combat animations, and changes to the Trials Leaderboards. In addition, we have tons of fixes and improvements to all other aspects of the game. Please note that while there is UI for the upcoming Crown Store, it will be disabled until March 17th when we release Tamriel Unlimited.

This patch will be approximately 20-25GB, depending on your language selection. We hope you enjoy this latest update!

Oh boy. How time flies.

DDuke

Rune Cage out of control? Who would've guessed...

Aedaryl

DDuke wrote: »

Rune Cage out of control? Who would've guessed...

Everyone except ZoS...

That's how feedback is listening, when 99% of SORCS themselves say it's OP, it's time to listen the discussions.

But well, it's ZoS

Mojomonkeyman

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

It is like we are back 2 years ago again. High damage no tanks no sustain needed. Inb4 they nerf tanks and sustain again.

Yeah, this patch is like 1.6 all over again. I hated 1.6.

This patch is -nothing- like 1.6

The damage output certainly is.

Lexxypwns

Neloth wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I spent over a million gold today just to get my jewelry crafting up to 50 and a bunch of crowns to get 3 traits. Wasted no time putting together a Sload's +Torug's build. Wearing Infernal Guardian as the 2 piece for now.

It's deadly against many players, but there are plenty of other builds out there that are really strong. I ran into another Sorc with Caluurion's and Zaan, and he killed me as often as I killed him. Stam builds, of course, are stronger than ever.

All the hand wringing over Rune Cage is ridiculous. My tooltip is only 7.5k, not 9k like @DDuke promised. It doesn't seem any different in practice to the CC that DKs use all the time, and it's a lot easier to break than NBs' Fear.

So, yeah, Sorcs are a little stronger now, but so is everyone else. Even with a "cancer" build, you still have to kill the other guy before he kills you!

How he used zaan and caalirurion on sorc? Doesn't sinergise well with the play style, imho, on sorc you need to kite and stay ranged, while both those sets are pure melee

If you build it, they will come.

A sorc isn’t threatened as much by ranged builds anyway since they have their own ranged burst and the mobility and playstyle to naturally kite. Building to counter melee is perfectly viable, if you can nuke the guy that just crit rush-DBoS you then you’re great. If you’re one of the sorcs still using DBoS then it’s actually perfect for you, get a zaan proc, DB, execute

Ashamray

Can someone tell mee what's wrong with Rune cage? Tooltips are welcome

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I personally have the impression that stamina damage has reached absurd levels this patch in no-CP. As if all those bleed/troll king no brainers wouldve needed a boost... Imo the biggest winners of the calculation, la & 2h changes in the following order are:
1.stamnb (why not, after being already topdog last patch)
2. magsorc, stamsorc
3. magnb, stamplar, stamden

Exactly my own feelings.

Thogard

I don’t mind big damage that is easily countered as long as that ratio is preserved... the bigger the damage is, the easier it should be to counter....

But seems everyone runs master DW and sloads and it’s death by status effect. Meanwhile Templar purify is on a 20s cooldown.

TheYKcid

Biro123 wrote: »

Damage *has* gone up - a lot for those who have figured it out.

I've noticed it mostly from Stamplars and Stamblades. It seems there are builds out there now that can tear down a 54k magica hardened ward every cooldown. I don't know what they are, but I've been on the wrong end of them a few times.

I'm starting to feel like shields are now borderline useless as a main defence for magsorc since you need them to last 3 seconds to be able to get off your burst. It simply doesn't work anymore vs anyone with frontloaded burst/high sustained pressure.

Switched build last night to use a LOT more stam/stam recov and mobility since dodging is starting to look like the most effective defence for magsorcs now.. Also brought back force-pulse so be able to give some instant pressure back - yeah, it's not much, but those 3-seconds bursts are just impossible to often enough now.
Gone are my old low-mobility, 'brawler-style' magsorc setups.. :-(.

So where initially, my sorc damage had gone up, it was only possible to use it when not being attacked. With my build adjustments - its gone down.

This has pretty much been my exact experience playing Magsorc so far this patch.

Was initially really stoked about the damage boost I'd get from having an extra slot and the combo potential of the revamped rune cage.

In practice though, against good players I find myself under so much sheer pressure that I'm constantly stuck on my backbar refreshing shields. It's hard to get breathing room to drop an uninterrupted combo of my own.

Honestly running Bloodspawn would be the perfect remedy. But psychologically it feels awful to think that I'd be consciously bringing my damage to even lower levels than last patch... while every other 2H/staff user is enjoying a whole chunk of added damage.

WillhelmBlack

This sounds like a certain bleed/sload Stamblade and Mag Sorc duo from EU.

I've played with and against them. The two of them and their damage is literally game breaking. You've no chance. I got the Stamblade close but then he just cloaked my Dawnbreaker xD

Biro123

It wasn't sload in my experience. Honestly, I have no problem whatsoever with a single sload as my hots deal with it an shields deal with the other damage (which is lower than it would be without sloads).. No this is pure damage to shields.. Massive, non-crit damage, non-oblivion damage. I can only think stuff like truth/clever alchemy/kena could do it, with a nirnhoned 2-hander, but I'm not seeing any seeing any sustain issues with them either..

Still struggling to find a build that works this patch.. As @TheYKcid says, it feels like where everyone gets more damage this patch, Magsorc has to sacrifice damage - a lot of it, to get enough survivability to deliver a burst.... Feels wrong.

Emma_Overload

Spent all morning trying my Sload's and Torug's Oblivion build, and the results were eye opening:

1) Fellow Sorcs weren't as easy to kill as I thought. The bad ones went down fast, but good ones were ready by moving out of LOS or counter attacking viciously.

2) Nightblades on the other hand... Hahahahahahahaha! Man, I deleted every single one I saw, almost a dozen total. It's not the damage that gets them, but they're totally unprepared for "failure to cloak".

This just shows you how bad the so-called "counters" to Cloak are. When a real counter comes along, they melt like a Sorc getting Shield Breakered. Someone should tell the Dwemer Paleontologist that PvP is finally balanced

kaithuzar

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Spent all morning trying my Sload's and Torug's Oblivion build, and the results were eye opening:

1) Fellow Sorcs weren't as easy to kill as I thought. The bad ones went down fast, but good ones were ready by moving out of LOS or counter attacking viciously.

2) Nightblades on the other hand... Hahahahahahahaha! Man, I deleted every single one I saw, almost a dozen total. It's not the damage that gets them, but they're totally unprepared for "failure to cloak".

This just shows you how bad the so-called "counters" to Cloak are. When a real counter comes along, they melt like a Sorc getting Shield Breakered. Someone should tell the Dwemer Paleontologist that PvP is finally balanced

Message me in game sometime, I want to fight you again

I still need to finish my build for this patch so it might be a week though.

Jsmalls

Each patch damage shields feel weaker and weaker. I honestly think it had to do with the amount of CP we have at our disposal. 20 points into shattering blows with 200+ points in each tree doesn't seem so bad anymore.

I'm going to try to run the undo morph that gives minor protection on my magSorc. Hope to help compensate for the damage increase this patch.

Biro123

Jsmalls wrote: »

Each patch damage shields feel weaker and weaker. I honestly think it had to do with the amount of CP we have at our disposal. 20 points into shattering blows with 200+ points in each tree doesn't seem so bad anymore.

I'm going to try to run the undo morph that gives minor protection on my magSorc. Hope to help compensate for the damage increase this patch.

I think major/minor protection and/or main are the only options now..

I tried a 58k mag setup last night. Result? Shields could survive damage again. But as soon as shieldbreaker or multiple sloads appeared, game over.. there is no way you can get that much mag and have the bar space to heal or escape or the stam to dodge.. it's like 'choise your poison'..

Minalan

Obvious the OP hasn’t met bleed build stamina guys this patch with speed jewelry and major expedition.

PVP is so broken this patch it isn’t even a little funny.

If you’re okay with it, have fun. Otherwise the rest of us will see you in three months when PVP balance is pushed off again for some garbage DLC with a new instant death proc set.

Torbschka

Minalan wrote: »

Obvious the OP hasn’t met bleed build stamina guys this patch with speed jewelry and major expedition.

PVP is so broken this patch it isn’t even a little funny.

If you’re okay with it, have fun. Otherwise the rest of us will see you in three months when PVP balance is pushed off again for some garbage DLC with a new instant death proc set.

U r kinda fruatrated, is it that bad? Havent played that much pvp since summerset, so I actually havent met that much bleed builds, but it seems it starts to getting more recognition now and most stam builds are doing.

I mainly play no CP, so could be the reason.

Ragnarock41

Torbschka wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Obvious the OP hasn’t met bleed build stamina guys this patch with speed jewelry and major expedition.

PVP is so broken this patch it isn’t even a little funny.

If you’re okay with it, have fun. Otherwise the rest of us will see you in three months when PVP balance is pushed off again for some garbage DLC with a new instant death proc set.

U r kinda fruatrated, is it that bad? Havent played that much pvp since summerset, so I actually havent met that much bleed builds, but it seems it starts to getting more recognition now and most stam builds are doing.

I mainly play no CP, so could be the reason.

In some ways it got actually better, like the 2 handers counting as 2 piece and jewelrycrafting allowing you to change your healthy jewelry to robust or arcane, is good changes. But there are also unbalanced stuff like master dw+sloads+viper no counterplay dot proc builds(this one is especially ridicilous in no-cp, and takes absolutely no skill to play),argonian Dks with infinite sustain and potion spam, magsorcs that now have no counterplay to play against(Who thought replacing frags with rune cage was a good idea again?)

So yeah. Point is, If you were able to enjoy the viper proc meta back in morro, you can probably enjoy this too. Otherwise its frustrating.

Beardimus

rileynotzb14_ESO wrote: »

Lol Magsorc, the ultimate potato smasher. Pretty meh vs good players.

Spot on

Derra

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

It is like we are back 2 years ago again. High damage no tanks no sustain needed. Inb4 they nerf tanks and sustain again.

Yeah, this patch is like 1.6 all over again. I hated 1.6.

This patch is -nothing- like 1.6

I 2nd that.

Dredlord

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

It is like we are back 2 years ago again. High damage no tanks no sustain needed. Inb4 they nerf tanks and sustain again.

Yeah like 2 years ago except this time they included magika in proc set meta.

Betsararie

The problem is probably your build and playstyle.

#gitgud ?

Dredlord

Biro123 wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Each patch damage shields feel weaker and weaker. I honestly think it had to do with the amount of CP we have at our disposal. 20 points into shattering blows with 200+ points in each tree doesn't seem so bad anymore.

I'm going to try to run the undo morph that gives minor protection on my magSorc. Hope to help compensate for the damage increase this patch.

I think major/minor protection and/or main are the only options now..

I tried a 58k mag setup last night. Result? Shields could survive damage again. But as soon as shieldbreaker or multiple sloads appeared, game over.. there is no way you can get that much mag and have the bar space to heal or escape or the stam to dodge.. it's like 'choise your poison'..

Your description sounds like it may be balanced.

Maybe your expectations are so high from playing a sorc for so long?

For a very long time other classes have had to sacrifice damage for survivability.

Emma_Overload

Dredlord wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Each patch damage shields feel weaker and weaker. I honestly think it had to do with the amount of CP we have at our disposal. 20 points into shattering blows with 200+ points in each tree doesn't seem so bad anymore.

I'm going to try to run the undo morph that gives minor protection on my magSorc. Hope to help compensate for the damage increase this patch.

I think major/minor protection and/or main are the only options now..

I tried a 58k mag setup last night. Result? Shields could survive damage again. But as soon as shieldbreaker or multiple sloads appeared, game over.. there is no way you can get that much mag and have the bar space to heal or escape or the stam to dodge.. it's like 'choise your poison'..

Your description sounds like it may be balanced.

Maybe your expectations are so high from playing a sorc for so long?

For a very long time other classes have had to sacrifice damage for survivability.

Templars and DKs have been quite survivable thanks to heavy armor and burst heals while still being capable of dishing out enough damage to kill a Sorc. Sorcs have improved this patch, but Sorc damage output has been low and is STILL low thanks to the frags nerf and the lack of a reliable burst ultimate. Meteor is better than it used to be thanks to Rune Cage, but it costs a lot of ultimate compared to Leap and Incap. Some Sorcs are still using Dawnbreaker because of this, even though it has very little synergy for Mag Sorcs.

Sorc expectations are not the problem. The problem is that core Sorc abilities like Surge, Frags and Streak have been nerfed over and over again. We've got a long way to go before we're "balanced" again.

Dredlord

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Each patch damage shields feel weaker and weaker. I honestly think it had to do with the amount of CP we have at our disposal. 20 points into shattering blows with 200+ points in each tree doesn't seem so bad anymore.

I'm going to try to run the undo morph that gives minor protection on my magSorc. Hope to help compensate for the damage increase this patch.

I think major/minor protection and/or main are the only options now..

I tried a 58k mag setup last night. Result? Shields could survive damage again. But as soon as shieldbreaker or multiple sloads appeared, game over.. there is no way you can get that much mag and have the bar space to heal or escape or the stam to dodge.. it's like 'choise your poison'..

Your description sounds like it may be balanced.

Maybe your expectations are so high from playing a sorc for so long?

For a very long time other classes have had to sacrifice damage for survivability.

Templars and DKs have been quite survivable thanks to heavy armor and burst heals while still being capable of dishing out enough damage to kill a Sorc. Sorcs have improved this patch, but Sorc damage output has been low and is STILL low thanks to the frags nerf and the lack of a reliable burst ultimate. Meteor is better than it used to be thanks to Rune Cage, but it costs a lot of ultimate compared to Leap and Incap. Some Sorcs are still using Dawnbreaker because of this, even though it has very little synergy for Mag Sorcs.

Sorc expectations are not the problem. The problem is that core Sorc abilities like Surge, Frags and Streak have been nerfed over and over again. We've got a long way to go before we're "balanced" again.

Blah blah *** blah, honestly your whole post sounds like a whine post to a templar. All the same problems with less tools to work around those problems.

Self entitled sorc expectations, and as sorc becomes balanced you guys just whine more and more...to be expected.

pieratsos

Dredlord wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Each patch damage shields feel weaker and weaker. I honestly think it had to do with the amount of CP we have at our disposal. 20 points into shattering blows with 200+ points in each tree doesn't seem so bad anymore.

I'm going to try to run the undo morph that gives minor protection on my magSorc. Hope to help compensate for the damage increase this patch.

I think major/minor protection and/or main are the only options now..

I tried a 58k mag setup last night. Result? Shields could survive damage again. But as soon as shieldbreaker or multiple sloads appeared, game over.. there is no way you can get that much mag and have the bar space to heal or escape or the stam to dodge.. it's like 'choise your poison'..

Your description sounds like it may be balanced.

Maybe your expectations are so high from playing a sorc for so long?

For a very long time other classes have had to sacrifice damage for survivability.

The sets that have carried sorcs for the past year (since morrowind) are shackle, lich, amber, riposte. Non of them is a dmg set. Even before morrowind sorcs were running one dmg, one sustain set (lich, spinners). And even before 1T sorcs were running with seducers, willpower or something similar. So wtf are you even talking about?

Feanor

Dredlord wrote: »

Blah blah *** blah, honestly your whole post sounds like a whine post to a templar. All the same problems with less tools to work around those problems.

Self entitled sorc expectations, and as sorc becomes balanced you guys just whine more and more...to be expected.

Well, if Templars are your baseline for "balance", then I'm sure there are a lot of people who don't want to play this "balance". What they did to Templars is horrifying, but that doesn't mean any concerns raised so that other classes don't share the same fate are "whining" or "entitled expectations".