Damage over the top - especially on mag sorcs and mag nb?

Torbschka

Hey,

I played some BG's / open world and I actually run a more "tanky" Setup (playing only no cp) on my Stamina warden (huehue, I just switched from magicka cuz reasons..).

Actually it felt like ist just over when I got hit by incap or rune cage, I just melted in the time before I was able to break free multiple times. Incap is super clunky and Im not always able to break free immediately, although I press breakfree like crazy. Runecage u cant do *** against and if u fight a competent sorc (no godtier) and they use runecage with Meteor I'm done.

Furthermore, I didnt noticed bleed builds that much before summerset, but now it feels like I have 5k bleeds on me everytime. Might be my personal view, but I feel like, especially mag sorc and nb, had the biggest Advantage of the 2h Change and just semi gods right now in pvp.

What do u guys think about the current situation?

My Setup is:
5x 7th
5x impreg
2x BS/TK

and as I said - I melt in runecage lol.

Maulkin

Well, the Sorc Feedback Thread on the PTS sub-forum is something like 30 pages long and mostly filled with Sorcs saying that if Rune Cage made live with that buff it would be broken OP.

And what did ZOS say? No class balance changes while in PTS.

I believe some scholars a few years back designed an ASCII emoji that perfectly sums up my feelings on this....

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Biro123

Damage *has* gone up - a lot for those who have figured it out.

I've noticed it mostly from Stamplars and Stamblades. It seems there are builds out there now that can tear down a 54k magica hardened ward every cooldown. I don't know what they are, but I've been on the wrong end of them a few times.

I'm starting to feel like shields are now borderline useless as a main defence for magsorc since you need them to last 3 seconds to be able to get off your burst. It simply doesn't work anymore vs anyone with frontloaded burst/high sustained pressure.

Switched build last night to use a LOT more stam/stam recov and mobility since dodging is starting to look like the most effective defence for magsorcs now.. Also brought back force-pulse so be able to give some instant pressure back - yeah, it's not much, but those 3-seconds bursts are just impossible to often enough now.
Gone are my old low-mobility, 'brawler-style' magsorc setups.. :-(.

So where initially, my sorc damage had gone up, it was only possible to use it when not being attacked. With my build adjustments - its gone down.

Mojomonkeyman

I personally have the impression that stamina damage has reached absurd levels this patch in no-CP. As if all those bleed/troll king no brainers wouldve needed a boost... Imo the biggest winners of the calculation, la & 2h changes in the following order are:
1.stamnb (why not, after being already topdog last patch)
2. magsorc, stamsorc
3. magnb, stamplar, stamden

rileynotzb14_ESO

Lol Magsorc, the ultimate potato smasher. Pretty meh vs good players.

Aedaryl

Rune cage damage is too strong, 90% of people said it on PTS forum, and ZoS didn't care about it. Deal with it for 3 mouths now.

With the damage increase shields strarting to be really weak if you don't stack 3 of them. ZoS really need to buff shield in a way it become more efficiant in outnumbered situations.

Bleedblade is what you should be afraid of. There is nothing more dangerous in this game than heavy armor bleed blade.

wheem_ESO

Damage has been pretty broken for a long time, but it's probably a bit worse now. I think Stamina is still mostly top dog, at least in BGs, but every build has access to some ridiculous damage.

Biro123

Aedaryl wrote: »

Rune cage damage is too strong, 90% of people said it on PTS forum, and ZoS didn't care about it. Deal with it for 3 mouths now.

With the damage increase shields strarting to be really weak if you don't stack 3 of them. ZoS really need to buff shield in a way it become more efficiant in outnumbered situations.

Bleedblade is what you should be afraid of. There is nothing more dangerous in this game than heavy armor bleed blade.

I took it off my bar.
Happily used it ever since Dragon Bones, without any damage on it - but now, I honestly can't keep offensive long enough to do a 3-second damage rotation that has runcage towards the end of it.. Always have to break it off to go defensive. Switched to dawnbreaker for my instant burst/CC.

Aedaryl

Biro123 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Rune cage damage is too strong, 90% of people said it on PTS forum, and ZoS didn't care about it. Deal with it for 3 mouths now.

With the damage increase shields strarting to be really weak if you don't stack 3 of them. ZoS really need to buff shield in a way it become more efficiant in outnumbered situations.

Bleedblade is what you should be afraid of. There is nothing more dangerous in this game than heavy armor bleed blade.

I took it off my bar.
Happily used it ever since Dragon Bones, without any damage on it - but now, I honestly can't keep offensive long enough to do a 3-second damage rotation that has runcage towards the end of it.. Always have to break it off to go defensive. Switched to dawnbreaker for my instant burst/CC.

Are you playing META ? If you use hardened + harness you should be able to be safe for 3s, especially with a dodge cast.

Biro123

Aedaryl wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Rune cage damage is too strong, 90% of people said it on PTS forum, and ZoS didn't care about it. Deal with it for 3 mouths now.

With the damage increase shields strarting to be really weak if you don't stack 3 of them. ZoS really need to buff shield in a way it become more efficiant in outnumbered situations.

Bleedblade is what you should be afraid of. There is nothing more dangerous in this game than heavy armor bleed blade.

I took it off my bar.
Happily used it ever since Dragon Bones, without any damage on it - but now, I honestly can't keep offensive long enough to do a 3-second damage rotation that has runcage towards the end of it.. Always have to break it off to go defensive. Switched to dawnbreaker for my instant burst/CC.

Are you playing META ? If you use hardened + harness you should be able to be safe for 3s, especially with a dodge cast.

Before summerset - yes - after - not so much. hardened + harness now vs certain players only lasts 2 cooldowns. You only get part of your burst cast then end up in an endless hardened-spam cycle until dead or oom.
The odd dodgeroll can let you get a double-shield stack up again, but it only lets you do half your burst again..
This is with 54k magica.

Honestly, damage has really ramped up - and shield-users are really feeling it.

Aedaryl

Well I've trouble to trust you about harness + hardened being broken in a second by a single player.

My hardened ward with 48k magicka is generally broken in 2s (on high damage build the second hit touch HP).

Thogard

Can’t get any queues to pop. Any group I join, I doom that group to a 30 minute wait.

This MMR / ELO / whatever system is blocking a lot of BG regulars from playing on their mains.

And when I do get a pop as a solo character, I get dotted to death.

Who would’ve thought master DW + sloads would be a strong combo?

Oh yeah. Everyone.

With all these status effects I think we’re going to see a big increase to magplar and stamplar population. Purify is just too much of a requirement right now with how strong all these damn dots and status effects are.

Biro123

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well I've trouble to trust you about harness + hardened being broken in a second by a single player.

My hardened ward with 48k magicka is generally broken in 2s (on high damage build the second hit touch HP).

I said 2 seconds for both.

Where you say 2 seconds for hardened, - but taking damage on the 2nd second - that effectively means having to spam hardened every second to avoid taking damage vs those builds. That's exactly what I'm getting at. Any stun happening on that 2n'd second = dead.

Waffennacht

Biro123 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well I've trouble to trust you about harness + hardened being broken in a second by a single player.

My hardened ward with 48k magicka is generally broken in 2s (on high damage build the second hit touch HP).

I said 2 seconds for both.

Where you say 2 seconds for hardened, - but taking damage on the 2nd second - that effectively means having to spam hardened every second to avoid taking damage vs those builds. That's exactly what I'm getting at. Any stun happening on that 2n'd second = dead.

I'm like...

What rotation? Curse, Wrath, let your procs proc = gg.

I think you're over thinking PvP atm

Lexxypwns

Waffennacht wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well I've trouble to trust you about harness + hardened being broken in a second by a single player.

My hardened ward with 48k magicka is generally broken in 2s (on high damage build the second hit touch HP).

I said 2 seconds for both.

Where you say 2 seconds for hardened, - but taking damage on the 2nd second - that effectively means having to spam hardened every second to avoid taking damage vs those builds. That's exactly what I'm getting at. Any stun happening on that 2n'd second = dead.

I'm like...

What rotation? Curse, Wrath, let your procs proc = gg.

I think you're over thinking PvP atm

There’s no way to hit 58k magika on a build with zaan+sload/Caluurion and be able to sustain so you know his build isn’t lit

Minalan

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well I've trouble to trust you about harness + hardened being broken in a second by a single player.

My hardened ward with 48k magicka is generally broken in 2s (on high damage build the second hit touch HP).

I said 2 seconds for both.

Where you say 2 seconds for hardened, - but taking damage on the 2nd second - that effectively means having to spam hardened every second to avoid taking damage vs those builds. That's exactly what I'm getting at. Any stun happening on that 2n'd second = dead.

I'm like...

What rotation? Curse, Wrath, let your procs proc = gg.

I think you're over thinking PvP atm

There’s no way to hit 58k magika on a build with zaan+sload/Caluurion and be able to sustain so you know his build isn’t lit

You don’t need to sustain that long when the proc sets kill everyone for you.

Minalan

Biro123 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well I've trouble to trust you about harness + hardened being broken in a second by a single player.

My hardened ward with 48k magicka is generally broken in 2s (on high damage build the second hit touch HP).

I said 2 seconds for both.

Where you say 2 seconds for hardened, - but taking damage on the 2nd second - that effectively means having to spam hardened every second to avoid taking damage vs those builds. That's exactly what I'm getting at. Any stun happening on that 2n'd second = dead.

This is the effect of woven light attacks with the new scaling. The damage is bad enough now that you don’t survive any CC, let alone a rune cage.

This patch having full CP with points in the DOT damage reduction and light/heavy attack damage reduction is just as important as hardy and elemental defender.

Ragnarock41

Thogard wrote: »

Can’t get any queues to pop. Any group I join, I doom that group to a 30 minute wait.

This MMR / ELO / whatever system is blocking a lot of BG regulars from playing on their mains.

And when I do get a pop as a solo character, I get dotted to death.

Who would’ve thought master DW + sloads would be a strong combo?

Oh yeah. Everyone.

With all these status effects I think we’re going to see a big increase to magplar and stamplar population. Purify is just too much of a requirement right now with how strong all these damn dots and status effects are.

wait, you're telling me you did not saw master dw+sloads combo coming?
This set makes nightblades actually vulnerable to bleed builds.(which by itself is why I love it, while stamsorcs do have hurricane, this gives stamDk/stamden the same consistency for breaking cloak..)

And the best part? Compared to viper, you actually get decent stats on 2-3-4th piece.

ak_pvp

Yep. Damage has gone up immensely, la scaling, some players using previously inaccessible sets and that extra sweet set slot. Along with no CP overpowered stuff, like sloads and bleeds.

My old tank build is basically being tore a new one repetitively. Sux.

Waffennacht

ak_pvp wrote: »

Yep. Damage has gone up immensely, la scaling, some players using previously inaccessible sets and that extra sweet set slot. Along with no CP overpowered stuff, like sloads and bleeds.

My old tank build is basically being tore a new one repetitively. Sux.

I see
Proc builds
Bleed builds
Spin2win -which isn't exclusive from the above
Burst CC builds (like mNB or mSorc Magden)

I do not see tank builds doing so hot in this meta

Thogard

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Can’t get any queues to pop. Any group I join, I doom that group to a 30 minute wait.

This MMR / ELO / whatever system is blocking a lot of BG regulars from playing on their mains.

And when I do get a pop as a solo character, I get dotted to death.

Who would’ve thought master DW + sloads would be a strong combo?

Oh yeah. Everyone.

With all these status effects I think we’re going to see a big increase to magplar and stamplar population. Purify is just too much of a requirement right now with how strong all these damn dots and status effects are.

wait, you're telling me you did not saw master dw+sloads combo coming?
This set makes nightblades actually vulnerable to bleed builds.(which by itself is why I love it, while stamsorcs do have hurricane, this gives stamDk/stamden the same consistency for breaking cloak..)

And the best part? Compared to viper, you actually get decent stats on 2-3-4th piece.

i feel like this is the third time this month my sarcasm was not detected by you. are you european?

kaithuzar

Idk, to me it just sounds like a learn 2 build issue.
1) you can't go full tank anymore b/c dmg inc means you need some dmg to get the pressure off you
2) you can't go full squish offense & complain about dying fast

Examples of good sets:
Sorc - Jorvuld's guidance - it extends duration of your shields

All magic users - wizards riposte - minor maim

You can even run these sets on both bars easily now with the 2h = 2 set pieces change

mikey_reach

Bg's in a nutshell zaan sload and shackle everything else is just flavor.

Ragnarock41

Thogard wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Can’t get any queues to pop. Any group I join, I doom that group to a 30 minute wait.

This MMR / ELO / whatever system is blocking a lot of BG regulars from playing on their mains.

And when I do get a pop as a solo character, I get dotted to death.

Who would’ve thought master DW + sloads would be a strong combo?

Oh yeah. Everyone.

With all these status effects I think we’re going to see a big increase to magplar and stamplar population. Purify is just too much of a requirement right now with how strong all these damn dots and status effects are.

wait, you're telling me you did not saw master dw+sloads combo coming?
This set makes nightblades actually vulnerable to bleed builds.(which by itself is why I love it, while stamsorcs do have hurricane, this gives stamDk/stamden the same consistency for breaking cloak..)

And the best part? Compared to viper, you actually get decent stats on 2-3-4th piece.

i feel like this is the third time this month my sarcasm was not detected by you. are you european?

Not european but close enough.

IZZEFlameLash

It is like we are back 2 years ago again. High damage no tanks no sustain needed. Inb4 they nerf tanks and sustain again.

Mojomonkeyman

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

It is like we are back 2 years ago again. High damage no tanks no sustain needed. Inb4 they nerf tanks and sustain again.

Yeah, this patch is like 1.6 all over again. I hated 1.6.

Emma_Overload

I spent over a million gold today just to get my jewelry crafting up to 50 and a bunch of crowns to get 3 traits. Wasted no time putting together a Sload's +Torug's build. Wearing Infernal Guardian as the 2 piece for now.

It's deadly against many players, but there are plenty of other builds out there that are really strong. I ran into another Sorc with Caluurion's and Zaan, and he killed me as often as I killed him. Stam builds, of course, are stronger than ever.

All the hand wringing over Rune Cage is ridiculous. My tooltip is only 7.5k, not 9k like @DDuke promised. It doesn't seem any different in practice to the CC that DKs use all the time, and it's a lot easier to break than NBs' Fear.

So, yeah, Sorcs are a little stronger now, but so is everyone else. Even with a "cancer" build, you still have to kill the other guy before he kills you!

IZZEFlameLash

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I spent over a million gold today just to get my jewelry crafting up to 50 and a bunch of crowns to get 3 traits. Wasted no time putting together a Sload's +Torug's build. Wearing Infernal Guardian as the 2 piece for now.

It's deadly against many players, but there are plenty of other builds out there that are really strong. I ran into another Sorc with Caluurion's and Zaan, and he killed me as often as I killed him. Stam builds, of course, are stronger than ever.

All the hand wringing over Rune Cage is ridiculous. My tooltip is only 7.5k, not 9k like @DDuke promised. It doesn't seem any different in practice to the CC that DKs use all the time, and it's a lot easier to break than NBs' Fear.

So, yeah, Sorcs are a little stronger now, but so is everyone else. Even with a "cancer" build, you still have to kill the other guy before he kills you!

You are doing it wrong if your proc sets are not killing for you *insert troll face here*

Neloth

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I spent over a million gold today just to get my jewelry crafting up to 50 and a bunch of crowns to get 3 traits. Wasted no time putting together a Sload's +Torug's build. Wearing Infernal Guardian as the 2 piece for now.

It's deadly against many players, but there are plenty of other builds out there that are really strong. I ran into another Sorc with Caluurion's and Zaan, and he killed me as often as I killed him. Stam builds, of course, are stronger than ever.

All the hand wringing over Rune Cage is ridiculous. My tooltip is only 7.5k, not 9k like @DDuke promised. It doesn't seem any different in practice to the CC that DKs use all the time, and it's a lot easier to break than NBs' Fear.

So, yeah, Sorcs are a little stronger now, but so is everyone else. Even with a "cancer" build, you still have to kill the other guy before he kills you!

How he used zaan and caalirurion on sorc? Doesn't sinergise well with the play style, imho, on sorc you need to kite and stay ranged, while both those sets are pure melee

Emma_Overload

Neloth wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I spent over a million gold today just to get my jewelry crafting up to 50 and a bunch of crowns to get 3 traits. Wasted no time putting together a Sload's +Torug's build. Wearing Infernal Guardian as the 2 piece for now.

It's deadly against many players, but there are plenty of other builds out there that are really strong. I ran into another Sorc with Caluurion's and Zaan, and he killed me as often as I killed him. Stam builds, of course, are stronger than ever.

All the hand wringing over Rune Cage is ridiculous. My tooltip is only 7.5k, not 9k like @DDuke promised. It doesn't seem any different in practice to the CC that DKs use all the time, and it's a lot easier to break than NBs' Fear.

So, yeah, Sorcs are a little stronger now, but so is everyone else. Even with a "cancer" build, you still have to kill the other guy before he kills you!

How he used zaan and caalirurion on sorc? Doesn't sinergise well with the play style, imho, on sorc you need to kite and stay ranged, while both those sets are pure melee

Ranged combat isn't really possible in the IC. You're always up in somebody's face.

Lord_Hev

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

It is like we are back 2 years ago again. High damage no tanks no sustain needed. Inb4 they nerf tanks and sustain again.

Yeah, this patch is like 1.6 all over again. I hated 1.6.

This patch is -nothing- like 1.6