A lack of theory crafters.

Knowledge

The game has a limited number of theory crafters at this juncture. Deltia's site rarely gets updated anymore, dottz gaming appears to be behind a bit, the only site with summerset builds up is Alcast. I'm not saying we have to have theory crafters to make a build but it does point the unknowing individuals in the right direction.

What is the reason for the lack of theory crafters at this point? Are others afraid to step up in fear of ridicule?

Ectheliontnacil

A lot of experienced people theorycraft their own builds and just share them with friends and guildmates.

Have a look at the discord of any larger trial guild or even the forums and you should find plenty of build ideas. Just because those buildcrafters don't have 40k subs doesn't mean they don't exist .

Armatesz

Honestly I've seen a lot of theory crafters in this game, maybe there is a difference between console and pc users that causes a sort of rift in theory crafters because of addons?

Checkmath

For PvE there is not much theorycrafting to do anyway. You just have to test a little bit all three months till you found the bis sets for the next patch. This work doesnt need to be done by a lot of people, so people probably stopped theorycrafting for pve when its about the meta. Just test the new sets compared to the previous meta and there you go. Its enough if alcast, gilliam or the few others do that. For pvp theorycrafting is much more prevalent, but people mostly keep their builds for themselves and only make it public, if the sets are easy to find out or they are already famous. Thats why most pvp builds are similar to each other and only a few extraordinary builds are published.

srfrogg23

Knowledge wrote: »

The game has a limited number of theory crafters at this juncture. Deltia's site rarely gets updated anymore, dottz gaming appears to be behind a bit, the only site with summerset builds up is Alcast. I'm not saying we have to have theory crafters to make a build but it does point the unknowing individuals in the right direction.

What is the reason for the lack of theory crafters at this point? Are others afraid to step up in fear of ridicule?

Those other guys have been playing for years on end nonstop. They got burned out. Feel free to step up and post your own build suggestions. Anyone can do it.

LioraValkyrie

I theorycraft for Petsorc. Pretty niche, but it's what I do and I've got close to 1k subscribers. I'm sure there are plenty of other guys out there who only theorycraft for the builds they are playing, which means they don't get massive publicity, but the info is still out there. Concerning ridicule, I definitely get my share, but that's the internet. The vast majority of people are very appreciative.

The problem with 'across the board' theorycrafting is that it requires knowledge of your total group composition, and with the advent of more challenging, mobile content including vAS and Dragon Bones hm, players are choosing gear that suits their playstyle rather than adhering to an established meta based on stacking up and nuking a stationary target.

Turelus

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

A lot of experienced people theorycraft their own builds and just share them with friends and guildmates.

Have a look at the discord of any larger trial guild or even the forums and you should find plenty of build ideas. Just because those buildcrafters don't have 40k subs doesn't mean they don't exist .

Pretty much this. I have some friends who spent the entire PTS working on builds and have ones which out perform Alcast's listed builds and tests.
The game has many theory crafters just not all of them are out in the public showcasing the builds. They're not trying to keep a competitive edge or anything, they just simply don't post their builds in a way for everyone to see and use.

Knowledge

Thanks for your responses, guys.

Dottzgaming

The reason Im behind (can only speak for myself) is because summerset came out less then 24 hours ago. I tested and worked on some of my own builds on the PTS and theyre done, but i didnt want to release them until seeing the final patch notes and mislead people if they changed heavily. Also, due to the fact that i have people help me with the site and not all of them had access to the PTS, they need time to test and experiment with things.

Also, releasing a 3.5 hour guide on the entire game, as you can imagine, is a pretty large time sink xD That pretty much has dominated my life the last two weeks. I am currently working with my web team right now on updating all of the site guides. My leveling builds will be updated first as i predict they will have the largest demand, then i'll start working on updating my personal end-game builds (the stuff i put on the site for my characters is exaclty what i use). And as people from my web team send me updates, ill be doing my best to push those onto the site.

Hope you understand why im behind, working my butt off to get everything updated as quickly as i can.

The Uninvited

A lot don't even have their own website but post the builds on Youtube.

Beardimus

To be honnest (no offence guys!) but I've never considered the big name streamers as theory crafters. For me they are the Meta makers.

Theory crafting for me comes from the DW Mag Sorc Khajeet tank guy holding taunt in Falkreath Hold.

I know the streamers speculate and test etc to find meta. But I don't think of them as theory crafters.

Beardimus

Likewise when I theory craft I don't splatter it on the net. As the point is to have a niche.

For example, a streamer mentioned Elf Bane a month ago, prices rocketed made good sales. So it became a form of pre-meta

Yzalirk

Beardimus wrote: »

To be honnest (no offence guys!) but I've never considered the big name streamers as theory crafters. For me they are the Meta makers.

Theory crafting for me comes from the DW Mag Sorc Khajeet tank guy holding taunt in Falkreath Hold.

I know the streamers speculate and test etc to find meta. But I don't think of them as theory crafters.

I completely agree.

Also, I have seen some of the trial run videos the popular ESO YouTubers put out they they seem like they do not have fun at all. All too serious.

There is nothing fun about cookie-cutter meta builds and it tends to generate toxicity among various groups. Some people seem to be under the impression that if you are not a Redguard for Stamina DPS or an Argonian for Tanking, you are probably trash.

ATomiX96

because most of the good players already left eso for a reason *cough* making everything casual friendly, nerfing optimized raid setups, nerfing solo players in pvp *cough*
and why bother theory crafting anyways when there is a handful of BiS sets for every spec, slap them on your character and youre good to go for the next 10 patches

DPShiro

Most of the original and true ones died with Tamriel Foundry.
People got burnt out, fed up with issues or just found another game.

I still do it and enjoy it nearly as much as playing tbh, but I keep the results etc to friends.

It’s also very ungrateful work to share most of the times.

Bladerunner1

Published theorycrafting leads to meta swarms. Meta swarms lead to nerfs. Nerfs lead to suffering.

Turelus

Beardimus wrote: »

To be honnest (no offence guys!) but I've never considered the big name streamers as theory crafters. For me they are the Meta makers.

Theory crafting for me comes from the DW Mag Sorc Khajeet tank guy holding taunt in Falkreath Hold.

I know the streamers speculate and test etc to find meta. But I don't think of them as theory crafters.

Well you technically have to theory craft to find the meta, you can't just know what it is without doing some theory crafting and testing.
The fact they settle on the meta and advertise those is because they're looking for the best builds for the styles they advertise or just builds which the most people can appreciate and use. There might be more niche builds which work the same or better however.

MaleAmazon

What is the reason for the lack of theory crafters at this point? Are others afraid to step up in fear of ridicule?

I´ve theorycrafted some things that I used, not BiS but they were fun for awhile, discussed some things with some people I met in the game.

Why post them? Here´s what´s gonna happen if you post; you will get comments about what a useless build it is from some, others will use it, you might get some thanks, ultimately I don´t think it is worth the effort. If you want to have an advantage from the build in say PvP, you might give up that advantage.

Also, it´s not like you really necessarily *get* something out of a good, unique build in my opinion. It might increase your DPS some, so what? What is that going to get you? The things I would like to accomplish in the game, it is not like I haven´t accomplished them due to low DPS. It is mostly due to RNG and not getting a good enough group.

Personally I also have the problem that I don´t have enough tempers to gold out everything, and so I don´t run to odd builds.

and why bother theory crafting anyways when there is a handful of BiS sets for every spec, slap them on your character and youre good to go for the next 10 patches

Also, this^. I´m not convinced that anything people make is in the end so much different resultwise from Velidreth + Vicious Serpent + all divines TBS warrior + lover. More fun though, sure.

themaddaedra

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Published theorycrafting leads to meta swarms. Meta swarms lead to nerfs. Nerfs lead to suffering.

That's a good point tbh. My gut tells me ZoS didn't even think of changing Acuity until Alcast pointed to it like 1000 times in his streams.

For the OP question, yeah there are theory crafters, but many responses here are accurate to the point why they are not so public.

There are also people -like myself- who share only when asked. Publishing stuff is way a lot more work than it seems.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

The game has a limited number of theory crafters at this juncture. Deltia's site rarely gets updated anymore, dottz gaming appears to be behind a bit, the only site with summerset builds up is Alcast. I'm not saying we have to have theory crafters to make a build but it does point the unknowing individuals in the right direction.

What is the reason for the lack of theory crafters at this point? Are others afraid to step up in fear of ridicule?

Those other guys have been playing for years on end nonstop. They got burned out. Feel free to step up and post your own build suggestions. Anyone can do it.

That is exactly what happened to me. I only resubbed yesterday after missing the last 11 months. Before that I played almost daily since launch. Happy to be back.

I’m much more of a PVPer. It always seemed to me that theory crafting in PVE will be limited because many dungeon runners leave massive gaps in their toon because they know they have a healer or a tank or whatever to cover them, like they should. In PVP, if you’re a soloer especially, I’ve found that most people are better served being able to do as many things as possible at a B+ level than simply one thing at an A+ level.

For example, my Magplar (I’m essentially a 1 character player) can fill out the entire MMO trinity without changing anything. I can DPS with Radiant, and tank with my shield or bat swarm. I can heal with Honor the Dead. I can turn invisible with one potion, or immovable another. I can even boost my speed with rapids.

I’m only pretty good at this game - I’ve had my moments of greatness but there are absolutely players with more stick skill. Where I am elite, however, is in the overall preparation and being a utility guy. I’m basically ESO Ben Zobrist. Haha.

Anyway, back to theory crafting. You’ll find many of them in PVP mostly because a majority of people don’t have a large group that can cover their weaknesses.

Koolio

I have been told by multiple friends and guild mates that I am not allowed to give anyone any of my builds.

It’s for the the health of PVP that I do not.

Odnoc

Probably better that way. If everyone starts wearing one set, guess what happens to that set... There are hurt feelings over it.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Koolio wrote: »

I have been told by multiple friends and guild mates that I am not allowed to give anyone any of my builds.

It’s for the the health of PVP that I do not.

I’m convinced that if a top streamer copied my build Cyrodiil would be screwed. It sounds so bizarre on paper that I usually get ridiculed for it, but it works. Oh boy does it work.

Fiktius

I like to theorycraft with other PvP players. I challenge them for duel and test out different gear ideas and skill rotations.
If something doesn't work, I might ask from these players what's their opinion about gear/skill X and I adjust my build based on comments, testing results and of course, keep my own playstyle in mind.
I've shared my entire builds in details only with a few friends, but I'm not even considering to share them to public.
By that way I can't accidentally create a mass of players who are running with the very same build.

kylewwefan

Because they’re all gonna laugh at you. Tell you your build is poo. And what you should do to fix it. True story.

I also think players are gonna find something that works, but others have a hard time with it or doesn’t perform like they want it to.

Maybe you put together something pretty special and want to share it with the community and then find out, oh yeah. That was the meta 3 patches ago. There’s better stuff to use now. But but.

I guess something that worked good some time ago could still work. Kind of. Maybe?

What if they’re right? And your build is poo. Oh man. I don’t want to tell players to use something that is poo. Let them find out for themselves.

flguy147ub17_ESO

People that post videos and have websites are a little more hardcore than the avg player. Many of those players left the game due to issues with it and stuff like the removal of soft caps, adding CP as the progression system. I think those personally were 2 of the worst decisions for the game and made a lot of people leave. And for PVP players, the performance isnt what it was at PC launch either which is frustating as hell. So many of those players left.

Knowledge

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

People that post videos and have websites are a little more hardcore than the avg player. Many of those players left the game due to issues with it and stuff like the removal of soft caps, adding CP as the progression system. I think those personally were 2 of the worst decisions for the game and made a lot of people leave. And for PVP players, the performance isnt what it was at PC launch either which is frustating as hell. So many of those players left.

I think the population is healthy. Vivec is usually locked.

MerlinPendragon

Join an active guild with forums. You will get better results than here.

MLGProPlayer

https://tamrielfoundry.com/forum/

Some examples of theory crafting on here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/359916/mundus-trait-and-cp-optimisation-for-pve-damage-dealers/p1

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/368487/magicka-set-comparison-hotr-pve-dps-focused#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/368454/spell-penetration-examined-a-pve-dps-perspective/p1

There are also a ton of theory crafters on Youtube (most of the top raiders have their own channels)

There just isn't much to be theory crafted anymore. The best builds have already been calculated. Patches don't change much. When they do, we get theory crafting like that referenced above (when crit% was nerfed).

lazerlaz

Knowledge wrote: »

The game has a limited number of theory crafters at this juncture. Deltia's site rarely gets updated anymore, dottz gaming appears to be behind a bit, the only site with summerset builds up is Alcast. I'm not saying we have to have theory crafters to make a build but it does point the unknowing individuals in the right direction.

What is the reason for the lack of theory crafters at this point? Are others afraid to step up in fear of ridicule?

People either don't listen because you don't have a steady YouTube channel, stream, or it's so out of the box they're scared or reject it.

I've been sharing my all dps on bow bar nightblade Argonian build/theory for 2 years now (on console) and people just look at it confused. When Summerset hits console, I'll make a new video of it updated... Again.. like every dlc I do. Granted it prob wouldn't work as well on PC and I don't advertise the videos in their own thread. Instead i post it as a reply when I see new players asking for nightblade PvP build advice or fresh ideas.

It will usually be followed by a "huh? That makes no sense."

At the same time I get tells after a round of BGs asking what I'm running to go 33-0. When I tell them they think I'm lying and keeping my real build a selfish "secret."

My friends and I have turned it into a game when people ask about my build on wether they will believe me or not.

There are many different awesome builds I've come across with friends but only work for a certain playstyle and skill level.

Majority of what we know as meta work because even the casual who isn't experienced can feel instant success with it.

Lastly, of all MMOs I've played, ESO has by far the WEAKEST official forums for build and skill advice. Lots of selfish peeps on here.

MidknightWolf

Knowledge wrote: »

The game has a limited number of theory crafters at this juncture. Deltia's site rarely gets updated anymore, dottz gaming appears to be behind a bit, the only site with summerset builds up is Alcast. I'm not saying we have to have theory crafters to make a build but it does point the unknowing individuals in the right direction.

What is the reason for the lack of theory crafters at this point? Are others afraid to step up in fear of ridicule?

Dude follow me at twitch/coldkill_tv I always theory craft and help new players build their dudes and dudets.