Remember the Grind

ResTandRespeC

Gear has very little meaning in this game. Maybe at one point having gold trial jewelry was coveted and prideful achievement but that's been gone for quite awhile. In the couple cases such as moon dancer/ master architect/ war machine, most of those are situational at best and definitely shouldn't be used as justification to lock this system behind such a grind. And this coming from someone who has all of them. The price of these mats are going to be simply outrageous.lets take 8k cost of temps on ps4 NA and multiply that by 10 for the 10x mat refinement. Multiply that by at leats 2 for the 1/4 chance drop rate on ore nodes, and then multiply that by another 2 for the longer respawn timer. Not to mention the initial inflation.were looking at 320k per mat and at least 2mil per jewelry upgrade.probanly twice that for the first few months.

MLGProPlayer

adriant1978 wrote: »

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witchdoctor wrote: »

Eh, I actually think they set it correctly. (But, yes, it's going to require an EPIC amount of materials. Jewel Crafting is the Epic Meal Time of ESO).

Here is why: vet trials remain relevant (and in fact are a new source of income) and I think you are comparing the grind to the wrong thing.

So a casual player who wants to craft purple Hunding's or Julianos jewellery gets screwed over so that the vet trials crowd don't feel like their gold rings are losing their exclusivity.

You don't need to play a lot to earn enough gold to participate in jewellery crafting. I only play a few hours a week (sometimes only logging in to pay guild dues), and I fully expect to be able to gold out any jewllery I want. You won't need to farm the mats yourself. Guild stores will be flooded with them, and the prices will correct themselves in a few weeks/months.

It will be more expensive than other crafting (due to the volume of mats required), but still absolutely affordable for casual and hardcore players alike. I'm saying this with 100% certainty because virtual markets operate according to the same principles as real ones.

WillS1888

If u wanna look the pimp blinging out the chains, gotta learn patience

Elephant42

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

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adriant1978 wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Eh, I actually think they set it correctly. (But, yes, it's going to require an EPIC amount of materials. Jewel Crafting is the Epic Meal Time of ESO).

Here is why: vet trials remain relevant (and in fact are a new source of income) and I think you are comparing the grind to the wrong thing.

So a casual player who wants to craft purple Hunding's or Julianos jewellery gets screwed over so that the vet trials crowd don't feel like their gold rings are losing their exclusivity.

You don't need to play a lot to earn enough gold to participate in jewellery crafting. I only play a few hours a week (sometimes only logging in to pay guild dues), and I fully expect to be able to gold out any jewllery I want. You won't need to farm the mats yourself. Guild stores will be flooded with them, and the prices will correct themselves in a few weeks/months.

It will be more expensive than other crafting (due to the volume of mats required), but still absolutely affordable for casual and hardcore players alike. I'm saying this with 100% certainty because virtual markets operate according to the same principles as real ones.

You have nothing concrete to base this on, and I freely admit that I have nothing concrete to base the following on:

You are wrong. If no changes are made to the JC system then it's very likely that the _average_/_casual_ player will NEVER be able to afford to upgrade to gold a full set of jewellery...

MLGProPlayer

Elephant42 wrote: »

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MLGProPlayer wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Eh, I actually think they set it correctly. (But, yes, it's going to require an EPIC amount of materials. Jewel Crafting is the Epic Meal Time of ESO).

Here is why: vet trials remain relevant (and in fact are a new source of income) and I think you are comparing the grind to the wrong thing.

So a casual player who wants to craft purple Hunding's or Julianos jewellery gets screwed over so that the vet trials crowd don't feel like their gold rings are losing their exclusivity.

You don't need to play a lot to earn enough gold to participate in jewellery crafting. I only play a few hours a week (sometimes only logging in to pay guild dues), and I fully expect to be able to gold out any jewllery I want. You won't need to farm the mats yourself. Guild stores will be flooded with them, and the prices will correct themselves in a few weeks/months.

It will be more expensive than other crafting (due to the volume of mats required), but still absolutely affordable for casual and hardcore players alike. I'm saying this with 100% certainty because virtual markets operate according to the same principles as real ones.

You have nothing concrete to base this on, and I freely admit that I have nothing concrete to base the following on:

You are wrong. If no changes are made to the JC system then it's very likely that the _average_/_casual_ player will NEVER be able to afford to upgrade to gold a full set of jewellery...

I'm 100% right. Free markets always correct themselves. It would be impossible for them not too.

People said the same thing about furniture crafting last year (I'll try to find the posts later). People cried that there would be no way to decorate a house without buying from the crown store. 1 year later, both furniture and their mats are affordable for even the most casual of players.

Today, a stack of 200 heartwood goes for 8k. Bast is 4k. Regulus is 1.6k. Purple furniture sells for 2-3k.

At launch, one stack of 200 heartwood cost 120k. Purple furniture cost 100k. And so on. Prices quickly corrected themselves based on supply and demand.

Elephant42

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

show previous quotes

Elephant42 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Eh, I actually think they set it correctly. (But, yes, it's going to require an EPIC amount of materials. Jewel Crafting is the Epic Meal Time of ESO).

Here is why: vet trials remain relevant (and in fact are a new source of income) and I think you are comparing the grind to the wrong thing.

So a casual player who wants to craft purple Hunding's or Julianos jewellery gets screwed over so that the vet trials crowd don't feel like their gold rings are losing their exclusivity.

You don't need to play a lot to earn enough gold to participate in jewellery crafting. I only play a few hours a week (sometimes only logging in to pay guild dues), and I fully expect to be able to gold out any jewllery I want. You won't need to farm the mats yourself. Guild stores will be flooded with them, and the prices will correct themselves in a few weeks/months.

It will be more expensive than other crafting (due to the volume of mats required), but still absolutely affordable for casual and hardcore players alike. I'm saying this with 100% certainty because virtual markets operate according to the same principles as real ones.

You have nothing concrete to base this on, and I freely admit that I have nothing concrete to base the following on:

You are wrong. If no changes are made to the JC system then it's very likely that the _average_/_casual_ player will NEVER be able to afford to upgrade to gold a full set of jewellery...

I'm 100% right. Free markets always correct themselves. It would be impossible for them not too.

People said the same thing about furniture crafting last year (I'll try to find the posts later). People cried that there would be no way to decorate a house without buying from the crown store. 1 year later, both furniture and their mats are affordable for even the most casual of players.

Today, a stack of 200 heartwood goes for 8k. Bast is 4k. Regulus is 1.6k. Purple furniture sells for 2-3k.

At launch, one stack of 200 heartwood cost 120k. Purple furniture cost 100k. And so on. Prices quickly corrected themselves based on supply and demand.

I actually agree with you about markets and supply and demand, but I absolutely disgree with you about gold jewellery mats. I agree that the price for these _will_ correct itself and stabilise after a while - it will start out at an astronomical level and based on the grind needed to get them I predict that it will eventually settle down to something only slightly less than astronomical - we'll eventually see whose prognostications are closer to reality...

You cannot in any way equate furniture mats with gold jewellery mats - furniture mats (and recipes) are freely and reasonably available to _everyone_ without the need for a massive grind. The prices were initially high because people just couldn't wait to craft all this cool new furniture...

MLGProPlayer

Elephant42 wrote: »

show previous quotes

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Elephant42 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Eh, I actually think they set it correctly. (But, yes, it's going to require an EPIC amount of materials. Jewel Crafting is the Epic Meal Time of ESO).

Here is why: vet trials remain relevant (and in fact are a new source of income) and I think you are comparing the grind to the wrong thing.

So a casual player who wants to craft purple Hunding's or Julianos jewellery gets screwed over so that the vet trials crowd don't feel like their gold rings are losing their exclusivity.

You don't need to play a lot to earn enough gold to participate in jewellery crafting. I only play a few hours a week (sometimes only logging in to pay guild dues), and I fully expect to be able to gold out any jewllery I want. You won't need to farm the mats yourself. Guild stores will be flooded with them, and the prices will correct themselves in a few weeks/months.

It will be more expensive than other crafting (due to the volume of mats required), but still absolutely affordable for casual and hardcore players alike. I'm saying this with 100% certainty because virtual markets operate according to the same principles as real ones.

You have nothing concrete to base this on, and I freely admit that I have nothing concrete to base the following on:

You are wrong. If no changes are made to the JC system then it's very likely that the _average_/_casual_ player will NEVER be able to afford to upgrade to gold a full set of jewellery...

I'm 100% right. Free markets always correct themselves. It would be impossible for them not too.

People said the same thing about furniture crafting last year (I'll try to find the posts later). People cried that there would be no way to decorate a house without buying from the crown store. 1 year later, both furniture and their mats are affordable for even the most casual of players.

Today, a stack of 200 heartwood goes for 8k. Bast is 4k. Regulus is 1.6k. Purple furniture sells for 2-3k.

At launch, one stack of 200 heartwood cost 120k. Purple furniture cost 100k. And so on. Prices quickly corrected themselves based on supply and demand.

I actually agree with you about markets and supply and demand, but I absolutely disgree with you about gold jewellery mats. I agree that the price for these _will_ correct itself and stabilise after a while - it will start out at an astronomical level and based on the grind needed to get them I predict that it will eventually settle down to something only slightly less than astronomical - we'll eventually see whose prognostications are closer to reality...

You cannot in any way equate furniture mats with gold jewellery mats - furniture mats (and recipes) are freely and reasonably available to _everyone_ without the need for a massive grind. The prices were initially high because people just couldn't wait to craft all this cool new furniture...

Furniture mats have a 25% drop rate from their respective nodes. They are a fairly rare drop.

Jewellery nodes will replace around half of all current rubedite nodes (which are extremely plentiful in a variety of farming locations).

Let's assume that this causes temper prices to double (due to reduced demand). This is an oversimplification, but let's roll with it for this example. That would make tempers 14k on PC/NA.

The cost of jewellery tempers will likely drop to the same level eventually.

Now, assuming a cost of 14k per jewellery temper, you would need 1.1 million gold to gold out one piece of jewellery. That's a lot, but still far less than the gear grind before transmutation.

Anyone can farm 50k an hour by just running circles around a public dungeon. At that rate, it would only take 22 hours to accumulate the gold you need for one piece of jewellery. That's 66 hours for a full set of jewellery. If you know how to efficiently mat farm or play the market, you can cut that in half.

That's still a daunting grind, but it's far from insurmountable.

And if most people aren't willing to pay those prices, they will have to come down. People aren't going to keep their guild store shelves stocked with something that isn't selling.

DoctorESO

The grind is real. It will take quite some time to max out Jewelrycrafting.

Iselin

DoctorESO wrote: »

The grind is real. It will take quite some time to max out Jewelrycrafting.

Maxing it out is not where the grind is. Unless you're happy with crafting 9-trait white quality jewelry, you're just starting the grind when you want to improve it.

Haquor

If there was no grind zos would be required to keep people playing with lots of content release. Its easier with some content release with an equipment grind attached. Easily craftable jewellery would ruin this business plan.

From thier perspective they simply have to make it a grind.

Iselin

Haquor wrote: »

If there was no grind zos would be required to keep people playing with lots of content release. Its easier with some content release with an equipment grind attached. Easily craftable jewellery would ruin this business plan.

From thier perspective they simply have to make it a grind.

The world is not that simple. As a developer of persistent world games you have to walk a fine line between enough grind and too much. If you blow it at the "too grindy" end of things that's just as bad for business as not putting enough grind into it... maybe even worse.

Facefister

ESO doesn't have a free-market though.

capper123

I have a feeling bot farming will get out of control.

waitwhat

I feel like the grind for sharpened vMA infernos pre-trait change was worse that this will ever be. RNGesus beats mat farming every time.

Facefister

capper123 wrote: »

I have a feeling bot farming will get out of control.

It is already. ZOS forgets that botters don't mind any kind of grind, it only hurts the normal player. The heavier the grind, the more bots will participate.

Shantu

I'll never get my head around the idea that any kind of mindless, robotic, gratuitous grinding to randomly generated content has any entertainment value whatsoever. I adds NOTHING of value to the game. It just pisses people off. Long research times? Ok. I understand there should be some investment to increase craft levels. At least I don't have to sit at my computer the entire time. I guess I don't even mind a little grinding for mats if there is a reasonable return. And now this ridiculous level of grind introduced with a highly anticipated feature? As brilliant as ESO is in many respects, the knuckleheads game designers who think this adds any kind of value to the game should get the boot. Big disappointment.

DoctorESO

Shantu wrote: »

I'll never get my head around the idea that any kind of mindless, robotic, gratuitous grinding to randomly generated content has any entertainment value whatsoever. I adds NOTHING of value to the game. It just pisses people off. Long research times? Ok. I understand there should be some investment to increase craft levels. At least I don't have to sit at my computer the entire time. I guess I don't even mind a little grinding for mats if there is a reasonable return. And now this ridiculous level of grind introduced with a highly anticipated feature? As brilliant as ESO is in many respects, the knuckleheads game designers who think this adds any kind of value to the game should get the boot. Big disappointment.

I always wondered how gaming, which is supposed to be fun, came to be grinding, which is not fun.

MLGProPlayer

capper123 wrote: »

I have a feeling bot farming will get out of control.

It already is out of control. But that's another force that will help lower prices.

DoctorESO

waitwhat wrote: »

I feel like the grind for sharpened vMA infernos pre-trait change was worse that this will ever be. RNGesus beats mat farming every time.

It's also much easier to get materials than to do vMA.