Suggestion: Templar upkeep of Major Ward and Major Resolve through true self buff like other classes

Zinaroth

DRAGONKNIGHTS have a 22 second self buff.
SORCERERS have a 22 second self buff.
WARDENS have a 22 second self buff.
NIGHTBLADES get it inherently if they use their main spammable every 8 seconds.
TEMPLARS have a rune which is placed on the ground and which needs to be recast every 8 seconds if you're moving, which in PvP you always are.

There's major inconsistency in how easy all other classes have with keeping up their Major Ward and Major Resolve versus Templars.

I want Templar to have a proper Major Ward and Major Resolve self buff.

Make it a true self buff like all other classes have, and not an effect on the ground that only sticks for 8 seconds, and make the morph effects stick as well just like Wardens, Dragonknights and Sorcerers have strong secondary effect on theirs which stick.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Elsterchen

Just so everyone gets a hint of what we talk about:

Rune focus (base skill) :

Create a rune of celestial protection, which defends you while you stand within it and for up to 8 seconds after leaving it.
The rune grants you Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280.

cost: 1853 magica, instant cast, duration 15s, ground aoe, not travelling with player

-> compare to f.eg: spiked armor (DK)

Release your inner dragon to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 17 seconds.
While active, the armor returns 143 Magic Damage to melee attackers.

cost: 2700 magica, instant cast, duration 17s, traveling with player + adds magic damage to melee attackers

-> compare to feg: lightning form (sorc):

Manifest yourself as pure lighting, zapping nearby enemies with electricity dealing [x] Shock Damage every 1 second for 15 seconds.
While in this form you also gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 15 seconds.

cost 3929 magica, instant cast, duration 15s, travelling with player + adds a good chunk of damage

-> compare to feg: shadow barrier (NB):

Rank II

Casting a Shadow ability grants you Major Resolve and Major Ward for 6 seconds, increasing Physical and Spell Resistance by 5280. This duration is increased by 25% for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped.

cost: 0 magica/stamina, passive ability, duration variable with amount of heavy armour carried, travelling with player + effect up when another ability from shadow ability skill tree is cast

-> compare to feg: frost cloak (warden):

Wrap a thick cloak of ice around you and nearby allies. Affected targets gain Major Resolve, increasing Physical Resistance, and Major Ward, increasing Spell Resistance for 19 seconds.

cost:4050 magica, instant cast, duration 19s, group buff (8m) + travelling with player

summary:
The templars rune focus isn't the cheapest class ability to gain major ward and major resolve.
Its the only stationary class ability granting major ward and major resolve.
For uptime during (PVP)-combat this ability has to be recast almost every 8 s -> so its as costly (~213mag/s) as wardens comfortable 19s travel along frost cloak that counts for the whole group. Adding to it, having to recast of rune focus every 8 seconds always bears the risk of beeing affected by poisons during casts in PVP increasing netto costs even further.

Secondary effects of morphed abilities are debateable. Some roles might find minor vitallity and minor protection more usefull then providing the buffs to the whole group (wardens); minor protection, increased damage etc etc etc.

Imo this base skill need overhaul and a buff, the secondary effects of the morphs should be looked at as well.

#disclaimer: CopyPastingsOfMyOwnWritingsAreNoPlagiates

olsborg

Thats only reasonable imo.

Vapirko

Agreed. It’s just silly. Would have to see a cost increase to put it in line with the other class skills, but it should proably also have a stamina morph.

FlamingBeard

Vapirko wrote: »

Agreed. It’s just silly. Would have to see a cost increase to put it in line with the other class skills, but it should proably also have a stamina morph.

No cost increase.

Extended Ritual, Puncturing Sweep, Radiant Oppression, and other Templar skills are already too costly for the benefits they give.

This quality of life increase for Templars is needed -- a sustain nerf is not.

Zinaroth

@Elsterchen Thanks for the elaborate write-up!

Vapirko wrote: »

Agreed. It’s just silly. Would have to see a cost increase to put it in line with the other class skills, but it should proably also have a stamina morph.

I don't really feel a need for a stamina morph since Stamplars already have too few magicka dumps as it is. Using our magicka resources on Rune and Purify would be great.

I honestly think they should keep the ability as it is, with the morph choises aswell, and just make the sticking self buff 22 second duration and include the morphed choises aswell. Obviously this would mean the ability would have to cast more, which is fine for me. The problem with the ability is the 8 second duration. It's simply not effecient to have to keep up a buff every 8 seconds of this magnitude when all other classes only need to do it every 22 seconds or get it for free.

Alternatively I would just like to see the entire rune effect on the ground dissapear and just have the yellow glow on the character. This would also reduce spell effects in Cyrodiil which seems to be a crusade atm. for ZOS.

Win-win for everyone.

AriBoh

Fully supported. Fully expecting nothing.

Xvorg

Zinaroth wrote: »

DRAGONKNIGHTS have a 22 second self buff.
SORCERERS have a 22 second self buff.
WARDENS have a 22 second self buff.
NIGHTBLADES get it inherently if they use their main spammable every 8 seconds.
TEMPLARS have a rune which is placed on the ground and which needs to be recast every 8 seconds if you're moving, which in PvP you always are.

There's major inconsistency in how easy all other classes have with keeping up their Major Ward and Major Resolve versus Templars.

I want Templar to have a proper Major Ward and Major Resolve self buff.

Make it a true self buff like all other classes have, and not an effect on the ground that only sticks for 8 seconds, and make the morph effects stick as well just like Wardens, Dragonknights and Sorcerers have strong secondary effect on theirs which stick.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Magplars and everyone else have access to Balance which grants 20 secs of Major Ward and Major Resolve. Considering it cost health and also returns magicka to the class that has the best heals, I don't see it's a problem.

What I would ask is including the health cost in the Restoring spirit passive, so the price gets around 5k which seems quite fair considering what the skill gives you back (extra regen, extra magicka, the buffs, magicka recovery, empower, etc)

Lynx7386

Rune focus has other effects as well, don't forget. Besides that, Templars have been designed as a more stationary class, that's just their flavour.

If you need to keep ward and resolve up on the move, use immovable.

Minno

Xvorg wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

DRAGONKNIGHTS have a 22 second self buff.
SORCERERS have a 22 second self buff.
WARDENS have a 22 second self buff.
NIGHTBLADES get it inherently if they use their main spammable every 8 seconds.
TEMPLARS have a rune which is placed on the ground and which needs to be recast every 8 seconds if you're moving, which in PvP you always are.

There's major inconsistency in how easy all other classes have with keeping up their Major Ward and Major Resolve versus Templars.

I want Templar to have a proper Major Ward and Major Resolve self buff.

Make it a true self buff like all other classes have, and not an effect on the ground that only sticks for 8 seconds, and make the morph effects stick as well just like Wardens, Dragonknights and Sorcerers have strong secondary effect on theirs which stick.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Magplars and everyone else have access to Balance which grants 20 secs of Major Ward and Major Resolve. Considering it cost health and also returns magicka to the class that has the best heals, I don't see it's a problem.

What I would ask is including the health cost in the Restoring spirit passive, so the price gets around 5k which seems quite fair considering what the skill gives you back (extra regen, extra magicka, the buffs, magicka recovery, empower, etc)

If you tried using that ability in combat when your important armor buffs goes out at the wrong time, youll know quickly why no one runs it anymore.

it's probably better on stamplar, who can kite/reposition much better than magplar.

It needs to be a VERY low health cost like it used to be. It only gives armor, and they can balance the mag return around the health cost. 1-2k is best, but you should also not get more than 1-2k mag back. There armor for everyone!

Joy_Division

Xvorg wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

DRAGONKNIGHTS have a 22 second self buff.
SORCERERS have a 22 second self buff.
WARDENS have a 22 second self buff.
NIGHTBLADES get it inherently if they use their main spammable every 8 seconds.
TEMPLARS have a rune which is placed on the ground and which needs to be recast every 8 seconds if you're moving, which in PvP you always are.

There's major inconsistency in how easy all other classes have with keeping up their Major Ward and Major Resolve versus Templars.

I want Templar to have a proper Major Ward and Major Resolve self buff.

Make it a true self buff like all other classes have, and not an effect on the ground that only sticks for 8 seconds, and make the morph effects stick as well just like Wardens, Dragonknights and Sorcerers have strong secondary effect on theirs which stick.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Magplars and everyone else have access to Balance which grants 20 secs of Major Ward and Major Resolve. Considering it cost health and also returns magicka to the class that has the best heals, I don't see it's a problem.

What I would ask is including the health cost in the Restoring spirit passive, so the price gets around 5k which seems quite fair considering what the skill gives you back (extra regen, extra magicka, the buffs, magicka recovery, empower, etc)

Are you suggesting that Templars should slot a non-templar skill that eats into their health pool and has a built in mechanic that cuts healing done because they have the best heals?

What's the whole point in having the Rune focus skill in our toolkit to begin with?

danno8

Xvorg wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

DRAGONKNIGHTS have a 22 second self buff.
SORCERERS have a 22 second self buff.
WARDENS have a 22 second self buff.
NIGHTBLADES get it inherently if they use their main spammable every 8 seconds.
TEMPLARS have a rune which is placed on the ground and which needs to be recast every 8 seconds if you're moving, which in PvP you always are.

There's major inconsistency in how easy all other classes have with keeping up their Major Ward and Major Resolve versus Templars.

I want Templar to have a proper Major Ward and Major Resolve self buff.

Make it a true self buff like all other classes have, and not an effect on the ground that only sticks for 8 seconds, and make the morph effects stick as well just like Wardens, Dragonknights and Sorcerers have strong secondary effect on theirs which stick.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Magplars and everyone else have access to Balance which grants 20 secs of Major Ward and Major Resolve. Considering it cost health and also returns magicka to the class that has the best heals, I don't see it's a problem.

What I would ask is including the health cost in the Restoring spirit passive, so the price gets around 5k which seems quite fair considering what the skill gives you back (extra regen, extra magicka, the buffs, magicka recovery, empower, etc)

Magplar is probably the worst class to use Balance with. Magplar defense is healing. Cutting yourself off from self heals for 4 seconds is a terrible idea.

If it prevented stealth for 4 seconds would you suggest NB's use it? Or no shields for 4 seconds for a Sorc? Of course not.

FlamingBeard

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Rune focus has other effects as well, don't forget. Besides that, Templars have been designed as a more stationary class, that's just their flavour.

If you need to keep ward and resolve up on the move, use immovable.

The other effect of Channeled Focus is to add magicka sustain... which is counteracted by having to recast the skill every 8 seconds if you're having to move during a fight, which all players have to do unless they're a 30k+ health tank...

"Templar's house" is no longer a viable excuse to make its buffs stationary.

Templar HAS NO HOUSE ANYMORE, it lost Major Mending, its skills received cost increases and tooltip reductions.

Templar is a neutered class for solo play and is only good at group support now.

idk

It is great that classes have differences and not everything is the same. That is what truly gives a class bases MMO character system worthwhile.

I have always been pleased with Templars unique armor buff and how it in many ways is superior to what is available elsewhere.

OP seems to forget that the Templar can also get minor protection and vitality at the same time or if they are magika they can get a decent magika return. The skill also has a fairly low cost.

OP's comparison also leaves out the cost differential which would have run afoul with his comment about having to recast it when moving.

So when making comparisons it helps to make true and complete comparisons.

Edit: just read a follow up post by OP and seems to still fail to look at the entire picture, only what suits his limited argument.

FlamingBeard

idk wrote: »

It is great that classes have differences and not everything is the same. That is what truly gives a class bases MMO character system worthwhile.

I have always been pleased with Templars unique armor buff and how it in many ways is superior to what is available elsewhere.

OP seems to forget that the Templar can also get minor protection and vitality at the same time or if they are magika they can get a decent magika return. The skill also has a fairly low cost.

OP's comparison also leaves out the cost differential which would have run afoul with his comment about having to recast it when moving.

So when making comparisons it helps to make true and complete comparisons.

Edit: just read a follow up post by OP and seems to still fail to look at the entire picture, only what suits his limited argument.

ESO is almost entirely mobility based now.

All new PvE content requires constant readjustment of your positioning, and in PvP sitting still is literally a death sentence.

Templar can no longer afford to "build a house" since it no longer has the materials or tools to do so.

Stop using out-dated ESO balance concepts for modern ESO balance discussion.

Drdeath20

idk wrote: »

It is great that classes have differences and not everything is the same. That is what truly gives a class bases MMO character system worthwhile.

I have always been pleased with Templars unique armor buff and how it in many ways is superior to what is available elsewhere.

OP seems to forget that the Templar can also get minor protection and vitality at the same time or if they are magika they can get a decent magika return. The skill also has a fairly low cost.

OP's comparison also leaves out the cost differential which would have run afoul with his comment about having to recast it when moving.

So when making comparisons it helps to make true and complete comparisons.

Edit: just read a follow up post by OP and seems to still fail to look at the entire picture, only what suits his limited argument.

Do u even templar bruh

idk

FlamingBeard wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It is great that classes have differences and not everything is the same. That is what truly gives a class bases MMO character system worthwhile.

I have always been pleased with Templars unique armor buff and how it in many ways is superior to what is available elsewhere.

OP seems to forget that the Templar can also get minor protection and vitality at the same time or if they are magika they can get a decent magika return. The skill also has a fairly low cost.

OP's comparison also leaves out the cost differential which would have run afoul with his comment about having to recast it when moving.

So when making comparisons it helps to make true and complete comparisons.

Edit: just read a follow up post by OP and seems to still fail to look at the entire picture, only what suits his limited argument.

ESO is almost entirely mobility based now.

All new PvE content requires constant readjustment of your positioning, and in PvP sitting still is literally a death sentence.

Templar can no longer afford to "build a house" since it no longer has the materials or tools to do so.

Stop using out-dated ESO balance concepts for modern ESO balance discussion.

Like with your last reply here you leave out what makes your argument fall apart.

It has been pointed out, very clearly in a post above, the cost is fairly low for this skill. Both you and the OP hinge your argument on the 8 second duration of the buff and you even try to make the cost an issue, yet fail to note the cost is very low.

Unless and until you look at the entire picture and suggest changes that take into account that scope your arguments will continue to meet a brick wall of reality.

I direct you to the second post in this thread to start that journey. That is just the start.

Just FYI, over the 4 years this game has been around and how much love Templars has needed much of that time, this ranks near the bottom of the most wanted Templar changes.

Zinaroth

idk wrote: »

I have always been pleased with Templars unique armor buff and how it in many ways is superior to what is available elsewhere.

How is it superior to what is available elswhere? This is a void argument without concrete examples.

idk wrote: »

OP seems to forget that the Templar can also get minor protection and vitality at the same time or if they are magika they can get a decent magika return. The skill also has a fairly low cost.

Yeah and all other classes get good morph options and beneficial effects on their armor buffs aswell. Sorcs get major or minor expidition along with an AoE damage over time, Wardens get Minor Protection - This is not an issue.

I forget nothing - don't condescend me.

I also noted that if the duration if the skill increased so should the cost, to be more in line with other skills, here you go:

Zinaroth wrote: »

I honestly think they should keep the ability as it is, with the morph choises aswell, and just make the sticking self buff 22 second duration and include the morphed choises aswell. Obviously this would mean the ability would have to cast more, which is fine for me.

...

idk wrote: »

OP's comparison also leaves out the cost differential which would have run afoul with his comment about having to recast it when moving.

Just provided confidence to the contrary.

idk wrote: »

So when making comparisons it helps to make true and complete comparisons.

Practice what you preach and give me that comparison where you show me how Rune is superior to what is available elsewhere.

idk wrote: »

Edit: just read a follow up post by OP and seems to still fail to look at the entire picture, only what suits his limited argument.

What an empty claim - once again; practice what you preach and give me concrete examples - and once again you're being condescending.

So you present yourself as someone who wants to discuss the subject but instead set up requirements for how others are to lead a discussion and argument which you do not meet yourself and then you condescend me.

Very classy.

idk wrote: »

It has been pointed out, very clearly in a post above, the cost is fairly low for this skill. Both you and the OP hinge your argument on the 8 second duration of the buff and you even try to make the cost an issue, yet fail to note the cost is very low.

I already aknowledged that the skill cost should increase if the duration does - however for Rune to NOT be more costly than other skills it would have to have a third of the cost of other skills and it simply doesn't. For every time another class casts an armor buff a Templar has to do it three times - which is why it ends up being way more costly to keep it up.

idk wrote: »

Unless and until you look at the entire picture and suggest changes that take into account that scope your arguments will continue to meet a brick wall of reality.

What reality? Your reality? It's a video game. There's only opinions here - some more informed than others and some less hypocritical than others.

idk wrote: »

Just FYI, over the 4 years this game has been around and how much love Templars has needed much of that time, this ranks near the bottom of the most wanted Templar changes.

I have mained Templar since pre-release - more specifically Stamplar.

Much of the Templar ideas that float around these forums are centered around Magplars and almost every time Templars get balance adjustments they are aimed at Magplars and then Stamplars just have to take the collateral damage that follows it because they have for a long time been a non-factor when it comes to class balance both for the community and the developers. Most of these ideas do not affect benefit me as a Stamplar, so who are you to say they are more important than others?

That's like your opinion.

I have to wonder what agenda you're trying to push in this thread...

I see you posting a lot of negative comment with no substantial content other than criticizing other peoples arguments and opinions.

Strider__Roshin

The issue is that it's slightly overloaded to be a mobile buff. Your best bet is to remove the magicka regen from channeled focus and make it function identical to the Warden's Ice Fortress.

Zinaroth

Daus wrote: »

The issue is that it's slightly overloaded to be a mobile buff. Your best bet is to remove the magicka regen from channeled focus and make it function identical to the Warden's Ice Fortress.

I think removing the magicka regeneration would hurt Magplar sustain too much in PvE and also remove the synergy between Mist Form and the regeneration in PvP.

Wardens have 24 second self buff that extends to allies around you with one morph increasing range and the other giving you Minor Protection.

One morph of the templar buff gives magicka regeneration and the other gives Minor Vitality and Minor Protection.

But just to understand you right:

You areproposing that Rune Focus becomes a self buff lasting 24 seconds where one morph gives
- Minor Vitality and Minor Protection,
and the other morph gives
- ??? (what would replace the magicka regeneration?)

Or are you suggesting the removal of magicka regeneration from one morph and then transferring either the Minor Vitality or the Minor Protection so that no matter what morph you chose you only get one?

Having a 24 second mobile buff with both Minor Protection and Minor Vitality is stronger than the Warden or DK ones, I agree, but those classes inherently have better defense than Templars (more so in their stamina specs and less so in their magicka specs). I think it would be on par with what Sorcerers get from their protective self buffs though (minor/major expidition and good AoE damage over time around them).

I could however agree on foregoing Minor Vitality or Minor Protection on the one morph for it becoming mobile (I would prefer to keep Minor Protection personally), but I think the magicka regeneration should remain on the other to make up for Templar lack of sustain - alternatively it could be made to regenerate your highest rescource pool giving Stamplars better sustain which they are in need of and giving Templar in general a great tool for regenerating stamina while holding block which they are severely lacking for making them good tanks in PvE content.

Not quite sure what your suggestion is but I agree that giving Templars a 24 second mobile buff with Minor Vitality and Minor Protection tied to it would make it the single strongest defensive self buff in the Major Ward and Major Resolve catergory in the game - I am however not sure that it would be too strong considering the shortcomings for especially Stamplars on that end? On Magplars I am not sure how it would play out.

But that is also for PTS to figure out.

I think there are strong arguments for getting rid of the "house" ideology sorrounding Templars in general and making the self buff stick, or mobile, and obviously following that there would have to be made tweaks to ability cost and reconsideration of the morphed version would have to be a thing.

I am in no way saying they should just make it 24 second mobile self buff and just retain the low cost - but I am not confident that having Minor Vitality and Protection tied to it would be too strong (especially for Stamplars); but this is not a firm standpoint foe me and I am sure there are great arguments to the contrary (especially for Magplars).

My biggest concern is having to recast a defensive skill every 8 seconds because of a flawed class ideology and by the fact that people approach it by saying; "just use another skill", because then as @Joy_Division stated:

Joy_Division wrote: »

What's the whole point in having the Rune focus skill in our toolkit to begin with?

I think change with the skill is warranted to promote more mobility in a game where mobility is key in both PvE and PvP no matter the content you engage in.

danno8

We really should concede that the cost on Channeled Focus is actually x-(240*8), where x is your build specific cost for the skill.

No matter how you cut it, the skill over the minimum 8 second duration will always net you at least +100 magicka with absolutely no cost reduction from any source in your build.

The cost of the skill is essentially zero. If it were to be a mobile skill or increased duration it would have to increase the cost by several thousand.

Zinaroth

danno8 wrote: »

We really should concede that the cost on Channeled Focus is actually x-(240*8), where x is your build specific cost for the skill.

No matter how you cut it, the skill over the minimum 8 second duration will always net you at least +100 magicka with absolutely no cost reduction from any source in your build.

The cost of the skill is essentially zero. If it were to be a mobile skill or increased duration it would have to increase the cost by several thousand.

It's only one morph that actually returns magicka - the other does not.

On top of that both Magplars and Stamplars have the worst sustain out of all magicka and stam specs across the game.

Having that great a magicka return on one morph of the rune only helps close that gap for Magplar but it does not bring them on par with other mag class sustain.

Not to mention you're completely ignoring the Stamplar point of view (like the rest of the community and the developers).

If both morphs get converted into 24 second self buff that sticks with your character and get to retain their current versions (magicka regen versus Minor Vitality and Minor Protection) I personally don't mind seeing the cost of Rune increase from 1853 to 3853 (a little less than the Warden counterpart) or even 4253 (a little more than the Warden counterpart) - which are cost increases of respectively 2000 and 2500 falling within line of your "increase the cost by several thousand".

But please be more specific/elaborate in your comments - you make it sound like Rune nets magicka return for all users which is not the case unless you forego Minor Vitality and Minor Protection which are huge buffs to have in PvP.

technohic

Id like it to stick longer. I’d even be ok if the magicka return or the vitality and protection aspects stayed 8 seconds while the buffs stayed. Or if they really want the Templar house; being in the circle should really amplify effects so it really was viable to stand your ground.

And someone suggested using the heavy armor skill ; I suppose it’s a possible option on stamina if you go heavy armor but you giving up vitality hits a part of our survival in heavy where we can’t roll dodge as much and have the worst resource management tools on stamina classes. If a medium armor wearer there’s not an option. Magicka side; I don’t think can afford the cost

And once again; we’re using less and less class skills used by Templar. Templars in general have been moving away from any sort of class identity as is while generic abilities anyone can use begin to outpace our tools.

Joy_Division

danno8 wrote: »

We really should concede that the cost on Channeled Focus is actually x-(240*8), where x is your build specific cost for the skill.

No matter how you cut it, the skill over the minimum 8 second duration will always net you at least +100 magicka with absolutely no cost reduction from any source in your build.

The cost of the skill is essentially zero. If it were to be a mobile skill or increased duration it would have to increase the cost by several thousand.

I don't agree because the other class resistance buffs actually do something whereas Channeled Focus doesn't aside from restoring magicka. Increasing the cost would render the whole point of the spell moot.

And having to use a global cooldown every 8 seconds is most certainly not a zero cost.

Joy_Division

idk wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It is great that classes have differences and not everything is the same. That is what truly gives a class bases MMO character system worthwhile.

I have always been pleased with Templars unique armor buff and how it in many ways is superior to what is available elsewhere.

OP seems to forget that the Templar can also get minor protection and vitality at the same time or if they are magika they can get a decent magika return. The skill also has a fairly low cost.

OP's comparison also leaves out the cost differential which would have run afoul with his comment about having to recast it when moving.

So when making comparisons it helps to make true and complete comparisons.

Edit: just read a follow up post by OP and seems to still fail to look at the entire picture, only what suits his limited argument.

ESO is almost entirely mobility based now.

All new PvE content requires constant readjustment of your positioning, and in PvP sitting still is literally a death sentence.

Templar can no longer afford to "build a house" since it no longer has the materials or tools to do so.

Stop using out-dated ESO balance concepts for modern ESO balance discussion.

Like with your last reply here you leave out what makes your argument fall apart.

It has been pointed out, very clearly in a post above, the cost is fairly low for this skill. Both you and the OP hinge your argument on the 8 second duration of the buff and you even try to make the cost an issue, yet fail to note the cost is very low.

Unless and until you look at the entire picture and suggest changes that take into account that scope your arguments will continue to meet a brick wall of reality.

I direct you to the second post in this thread to start that journey. That is just the start.

Just FYI, over the 4 years this game has been around and how much love Templars has needed much of that time, this ranks near the bottom of the most wanted Templar changes.

Your signature is 100% appropriate as far as this discussion is concerned.

Lynx7386

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Rune focus has other effects as well, don't forget. Besides that, Templars have been designed as a more stationary class, that's just their flavour.

If you need to keep ward and resolve up on the move, use immovable.

The other effect of Channeled Focus is to add magicka sustain... which is counteracted by having to recast the skill every 8 seconds if you're having to move during a fight, which all players have to do unless they're a 30k+ health tank...

"Templar's house" is no longer a viable excuse to make its buffs stationary.

Templar HAS NO HOUSE ANYMORE, it lost Major Mending, its skills received cost increases and tooltip reductions.

Templar is a neutered class for solo play and is only good at group support now.

If you're not a tank, why do you need major resolve and ward.

If this is for pvp, why not use immovable instead, which offers other boosts valuable in pvp?

If nothing else, you can wear chudan for the buffs, and at no cost to your resources.

The only time a non tank would absolutely need major resolve and ward in pve is during trials, and you said it yourself: wardens can buff the entire group with it using frost cloak. That's one of the only group support buffs wardens have to offer a trials group at this point.

NyassaV

Increase the size of the rune

tplink3r1

NyassaV wrote: »

Increase the size of the rune

Not useful unless they increase it's size 10x.

Zinaroth

Lynx7386 wrote: »

If you're not a tank, why do you need major resolve and ward.

If you PvP without Major Resolve and Major Reward as a stamina player you're going to get demolished in open world or 1vX.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

If this is for pvp, why not use immovable instead, which offers other boosts valuable in pvp?

Because it is cost inefficient to keep up and because it uses stamina instead of magicka - and because it is only available to heavy armor users effectively narrowing the build options for all Templar specs if they had to rely on this skill.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

If nothing else, you can wear chudan for the buffs, and at no cost to your resources.

I already do and it definitely comes at the cost of performance in other areas - a price non of the other classes has to pay.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

The only time a non tank would absolutely need major resolve and ward in pve is during trials, and you said it yourself: wardens can buff the entire group with it using frost cloak. That's one of the only group support buffs wardens have to offer a trials group at this point.

Yes and I absolutely think Wardens should still be the only class to provide Major Resolve and Major Ward to an entire group - you don't see me advocating that Templars get the same group utility.

I think I have made it very clear through this entire post that I am speaking as a Stamplar from PvP point of view but also shortly touched upon how making our defensive buffs mobile would make sense in PvE.

I don't advocate "stealing" or "copying" anything from the Warden toolkit as I am all for disparity between the classes - I am solely advocating that the Templar access to Major Resolve and Major Reward is made a true self buff that is mobile and stays with caster as with all other classes.

danno8

Zinaroth wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

We really should concede that the cost on Channeled Focus is actually x-(240*8), where x is your build specific cost for the skill.

No matter how you cut it, the skill over the minimum 8 second duration will always net you at least +100 magicka with absolutely no cost reduction from any source in your build.

The cost of the skill is essentially zero. If it were to be a mobile skill or increased duration it would have to increase the cost by several thousand.

But please be more specific/elaborate in your comments - you make it sound like Rune nets magicka return for all users which is not the case unless you forego Minor Vitality and Minor Protection which are huge buffs to have in PvP.

I don't talk about Stamplar, because I don't know Stamplar, how it feels to play one or how it plays. At all. I try to only talk about things I have experience with.

Joy_Division wrote: »

I don't agree because the other class resistance buffs actually do something whereas Channeled Focus doesn't aside from restoring magicka. Increasing the cost would render the whole point of the spell moot.

And having to use a global cooldown every 8 seconds is most certainly not a zero cost.

In the other thread I suggested that Scared Ground passive also renew the buffs (all of them) given by both morphs of Rune. Which means whenever you cast Purifying/Extended, it would also renew the buffs for Rune.

Both Magplar and Stamplar use these two skills extensively, and I figured this would not only give Rune and effectively larger area, but also reduce the number of recasts necessary to maintain the buffs.

This was in conjunction with some other buffs, like Minor Defile inside Rituals area, and Major Defile on Solar Barrage. It's a bit more complicated than just making Rune stick to the Templar, but it's not like I would complain if the developers just took the easy way out and made Rune just like every other class armor buff.

Just trying to maintain a little different playstyle is all.

Zinaroth

danno8 wrote: »

In the other thread I suggested that Scared Ground passive also renew the buffs (all of them) given by both morphs of Rune. Which means whenever you cast Purifying/Extended, it would also renew the buffs for Rune.

Both Magplar and Stamplar use these two skills extensively, and I figured this would not only give Rune and effectively larger area, but also reduce the number of recasts necessary to maintain the buffs.

This was in conjunction with some other buffs, like Minor Defile inside Rituals area, and Major Defile on Solar Barrage. It's a bit more complicated than just making Rune stick to the Templar, but it's not like I would complain if the developers just took the easy way out and made Rune just like every other class armor buff.

Just trying to maintain a little different playstyle is all.

I still think making it a true mobile self buff would be the better choise - both in terms of development time and convenience.

However you idea is very interesting and definitely an improvement over what we see now - I still suspect however that it will lead to some form of micromanagement of the buff timer and that is kind of what I personally would love to move away from.