Due to racial imbalance, high elf is the most popular race by far, followed by dark elf

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Sylosi wrote: »

"very behind", "huge disadvantage", "differences are massive"...

You boys all need to go find a dictionary, because having for example the 7% extra elemental damage is none of those things.

I agree with this sentiment, high elfs are only 4% for all, dark elfs get 7% fire and only 2% more ice and lightning damage. Not a big deal at all.

@lassitershawn can you show me a parse to back up yours claims? For 4% to equal "several thousand" dps you would have to be doing 75k+ DPS. No one is doing that.

lassitershawn

Sylosi wrote: »

"very behind", "huge disadvantage", "differences are massive"...

You boys all need to go find a dictionary, because having for example the 7% extra elemental damage is none of those things.

4% elemental damage on altmer adds 1-2k+ DPS compared to breton on a raid parse. This can translate into huge amounts of damage on a long fight. 2k DPS over 4 minutes for example is nearly half a million total damage. Half a million damage can make a big difference. Regardless of what you think the cutoff is for "huge," there is no good reason to have some races be blatantly inferior to others in their intended role.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

lassitershawn wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

"very behind", "huge disadvantage", "differences are massive"...

You boys all need to go find a dictionary, because having for example the 7% extra elemental damage is none of those things.

4% elemental damage on altmer adds 1-2k+ DPS compared to breton on a raid parse. This can translate into huge amounts of damage on a long fight. 2k DPS over 4 minutes for example is nearly half a million total damage. Half a million damage can make a big difference. Regardless of what you think the cutoff is for "huge," there is no good reason to have some races be blatantly inferior to others in their intended role.

Again, show me the receipts, go to the pts and build a couple of toons and show the difference.

The intended role of a Breton is a defensive caster. Like they have always been in the lore.

Heka Cain

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DPShiro

Tabbycat wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

No, all that is wrong.
Altmer is more popular since they are supreme and better in every way compared to the lesser races.

Yes, you are right. They are clearly better at dying in PvP.

Please, we are way above getting in the mud on the battlefield with the commoners. We just send the Khajit and other slaves as fodder while we sit on the sunlit coast sipping fine drinks~

Tabbycat

DPShiro wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

No, all that is wrong.
Altmer is more popular since they are supreme and better in every way compared to the lesser races.

Yes, you are right. They are clearly better at dying in PvP.

Please, we are way above getting in the mud on the battlefield with the commoners. We just send the Khajit and other slaves as fodder while we sit on the sunlit coast sipping fine drinks~

lol you wish. Kill statistics show otherwise.

RaddlemanNumber7

I have killed hugely more Bretons than any other race. They're easy meat.

lassitershawn

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

"very behind", "huge disadvantage", "differences are massive"...

You boys all need to go find a dictionary, because having for example the 7% extra elemental damage is none of those things.

I agree with this sentiment, high elfs are only 4% for all, dark elfs get 7% fire and only 2% more ice and lightning damage. Not a big deal at all.

@lassitershawn can you show me a parse to back up yours claims? For 4% to equal "several thousand" dps you would have to be doing 75k+ DPS. No one is doing that.

Some parses I had on hand and some math I just did:
Afaik Cfrags, curse, and absorb are only sources of non-elemental damage in my parses.

https://imgur.com/a/D9TE9ms


52906-4342-1913-2934=43717
43717*1.04=45465.68
45466-43717 = 1748.68 (DPS gain if I was altmer)
Not quite several k but still a lot of DPS. There are sorcs that have better rotations than me that could doubtless make the difference between breton and altmer 2k+.
Over 167 seconds this equates to nearly 300k total damage.

https://imgur.com/a/7s2zV2p


29091-2295-1654-1466=23676
23676*1.04=24623.04
24623.04-23676=947.04 (DPS gain if I was altmer)
Smaller DPS difference for sure but over 848 seconds equates to slightly over 800k total damage. This is a fast Olms fight. A longer one and the difference could be millions.HUGE amount of damage.

Conclusion:
Several k may have been a small exaggeration, but the DPS difference is still pretty big. The difference will only get bigger as DPS goes up (as it will next patch). I'd consider a difference of ~500-750 much more fair. Also note that while Altmer and Breton sustain are fairly comparable, Altmer excels in any scenario where there is downtime between attacks. This WILL happen in vAS on occasion and occurs during all heavies (heavies are usually necessary on FP sorc and with NB sustain nerfs might even be needed on them soon).

Violynne

Benemime wrote: »

I was checking my achievements and noticed something that I already suspected: high elves are the most popular race

ZoS has already confirmed this during the Anniversary event.

It also confirmed the largest faction is Skyr... ahem, Ebonheart Pact.

But the most shocking fact was someone is playing this game with a nearly 250 million bounty on their head.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@lassitershawn now that is a good post but you can't just take those number you see and multiply them by 1.04. there is severe diminishing returns do to cp and class passives. Your 1.04 is probably close to 1.023 or some such. That is why you need to do controled experiments were the only things that changes is the 4%.

Enslaved

code65536 wrote: »

Argonians are second to last? Wut? I swear, it feels like everyone in PvP is a lizard these days.

Or maybe they're second to last because they're harder to kill?

Saxhleel are very hard to kill. And many experienced PvP players use them for small scale, battlegrounds and similar. This make them extremely hard to kill. On the other hand, there are like 10 nords in entire Cyrodiil on prime time.

DoobZ69

Altmer passives need to be deleted. None of them play because their racials are the best but because they love being an elf. Then the cries of improving other races will stop and everyone will be happy.

The only danger is Altmer population exploding of course, due to racial passives having no effect in this race choice and eveyone just loving being an elf regardless of whether they have passive bonuses at all.

lassitershawn

I'll get back to you on that. I always assumed it was added on at the end but if it is added on before CP you could be right.

Horker

mb10 wrote: »

Argonian is master PVP race tbh

* plays Argonian stamblade S/B+2H *
* wears Malubeth *
* wears Duroks Bane *
* wears some redicilous sustain set *
* dank memes *

TelvanniWizard

Dunmer aren´t popular because of in-game mechanics. They are popular because they rock!

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

If you know how to play your class, you will get invited into veteran trials no matter what's your race and/or if you are a vampire. The race provides some benefits, true, but using that as an excuse is pathetic.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

lassitershawn wrote: »

I'll get back to you on that. I always assumed it was added on at the end but if it is added on before CP you could be right.

It is additive. So if you have 12% in elemental expert, 18% in thaumaturge and the sorc passive 5% increase in lightning damage, you go from 135% to 139%, a 2.9% increase.

Also, no one is saying that high elfs don't do more damage, all I am trying to get across is that is it not as huge as people are saying.

lassitershawn

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

I'll get back to you on that. I always assumed it was added on at the end but if it is added on before CP you could be right.

It is additive. So if you have 12% in elemental expert, 18% in thaumaturge and the sorc passive 5% increase in lightning damage, you go from 135% to 139%, a 2.9% increase.

Also, no one is saying that high elfs don't do more damage, all I am trying to get across is that is it not as huge as people are saying.

Ok interesting. That puts the difference in the parses I posted at ~1300 and 700 then respectively I think. Makes me feel a little less sad about being a Breton. I still think the races I mentioned earlier should get buffs though. Especially Nord rip.

GreenhaloX

I just like the High Elf women..

Perwulf

More like attribute imbalance since majority runs magicka build be it tank or dps. Elves are just the icing on the top.

jypcy

Feanor wrote: »

It does matter if you’re going after trial scores. Other than that, not really.

Basically this and arguably in really close pvp duels. And gear, mastery of rotation, combat responsiveness, etc. are all contributing factors as well. Sure you can quantify a difference between races while holding those others constant, but it’s not like choice in race is going to be the limiting factor preventing someone from completing content.

I wouldn’t mind minor racial balancing to narrow the gaps between races in their intended roles, or make the currently subpar racial passives more enticing, but it needn’t be anything too drastic as some on this thread are making it out to be.

DeadlyPhoenix

I'm going to ignore all of the hate against me and the race/class debacle...

To reiterate my main point. These achievements in no way depict the popularity of a race in PvP. Imperials are at the bottom of the list, being that they're mainly a tank race you can assume that most players that know what they're doing in PvP that run imperial are using tank builds since that's what the race is mainly set up for. Tanks are harder to kill than glass cannons obviously and as such you haven't killed as many. Also note Argonians are mostly healers and as such may be harder to kill. High elf dps are usually glass cannons unless you run into a player that knows what they're doing, often times though it's someone who doesn't.

Yes, I have personally seen a ton of orcs in PvP which is exactly my point. The OPs achievements in no way reflect race popularity because mine doesn't either. There are too many variables and variety in PvP to base it off from one person's personal kill list. Sure there are races more popular than others, but basing it off from one person's achievements is like saying the sky is always green at night and only having a picture of me at the northern lights and you never having seen it. It is for some people, is it always for you?

As far as BiS race goes for classes, again there isn't a BiS for each class because it depends on what you want to do as that class. Anyone who says there is, to quote a naysayer, "You're utterly wrong."

It depends on if you're healing, tanking, dpsing, magdps, stamdps, what sets you use, what glyphs you use, what enchantments, what CP allocation, what passives, skill points, skill trees unlocked, etc etc that you have. If I'm playing a sorc healer I would go argonian or Breton over high elf. If I'm playing a stamsorc I'll go orc, redguard or nord depending on how I want that character to play and feel.

BiS race is only if you min/max and chase the meta. Otherwise any race is viable for any class depending on the overall build. In PvP there are so many builds and variables unlike in PvE where you know exactly what's going to happen every time. You want min/max dps and tanks and healers in PvE that are, you guessed it, meta builds. PvP doesn't always need to be meta to be a good, viable build. (I don't even run a meta build in PvE and have absolutely no problems in vet HM content.)

Try to argue that and you are just proving you don't know what you're talking about and are only here to farm approvals.

Also won't be replying anymore. I said my piece and there is already hate in this thread when none was meant on my part.
*Edit for typos and to clarify*

starkerealm

Benemime wrote: »

It's frustrating playing with magicka character knowing that you are very behind if you are not playing with a high elf, so, because of that, we see a lot of high elves filling every alliance, high elf in daggerfall covenant, ebonheart, etc.

I was checking my achievements and noticed something that I already suspected: high elves are the most popular race (and they don't even look that good?)

Under the "Player VS Player" achievement section, I was checking numbers for every race (the race slayer achievement, kill X players from a specific race), here are my numbers:

1st: 54 high elves already killed
2nd: 46 - dark elf
3rd: 31 - wood elf
4th: 24 - nord
5th: 23 - redguard
6th: 15 - Breton
7/8th: 14/14 - khajits and orcs
9th: 13 - argonians
10th: 9 - imperials

Worth noting, that this list is going to be skewed by a couple factors. First, PvE and PvP racial composition is not the same. Second, some races are harder to kill than others. Third, a sample size of 54 kills is going to have a margin of error somewhere north of 50%. (I don't particularly want to crunch the numbers right now to remember just how high the margin of error is.)

xeNNNNN

this is because of the game being predominantly magicka users. Sure theres plenty of stam users and plenty who play both but mag out ways stam in numbers for sure.

If there was more for playing Stam lately then perhaps Bosmer would be up there at the top and redgaurd and orc etc.

but yeah its nothing really about "balance" its more to do with the players liking the game more playing mag than playing stam.

A small amount is to do with balance sure but only in the sense that it these "stats" give you an idea of the direction the game is leaning in.

DMuehlhausen

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Those achievements in now way depict how popular a race is. Yes high elf is presumably the most populated, but I don't see nearly as many dark elves as I do redguards.

That's just in PvP as well and a lot of people are dead set against PvP at all.

Race isn't crucial unless you're a min/max person. My sorcerer used to be a wood elf before race changed and honestly I did not notice a huge spike in dps or my ability to kill players in PvP. This was a magicka build and wood elf doesn't help magicka at all with passives.

As long as you aren't a min/maxer you're right they shouldn't be crucial. Though they are so strong they still do matter. This coming from a filthy casual...for the most part it just doesn't make sense to not choose the best race/class combo. I have seen people kicked from Dungeon groups for not being a High Elf Sorc, or Khajit Nightblade.

Passives should be adjust to where they don't give that big of a boost.

Smokewood

I chose a high elf because the females are hot.
I don't give a damn about stats.

Kuramas9tails

Ragged_Claw wrote: »

I'm not sure of the thrust of the argument here. Racial passives have been a staple of Elder Scrolls games since the beginning. If you want to be a magicka character then choose a race with magicka passives, High Elf and Breton being the best. If you want a stamina based character then it's Redguard or Bosmer, for a stealth build, Khajiit, tank build Nord or Argonian and so on and so on. Where is the imbalance? My high elf can nuke things but she has to make the choice between dodge rolling or blocking because she has no stam and if something more dangerous than a big sneeze hits her she is dead. It would only be an imbalance if she also had huge health and stamina and no other race did. And yes, you have killed more High Elves in PvP because they have mucho attack but no defence, it's not rocket science.

In previous elder scroll games, passives didn't do a make-it or break-it end game content no matter what build and race you went with and wasn't competitive. That night vision and unarmed attacks from the Khajiit in Skyrim sure did get me through a lot of the end game content (sarcasm).

dazee

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

Just buff bretons already to put them on par with altmer for damage.

But why? Breton's are the defense mages in elder scrolls lore, high elfs are always more offensive.

And if an extra 4% elemental damage kills your build, you need to look at your build.

Maybe don't buff their damage then, just buff their spell resist? or the cost discount trait. 3% is almost nothing.

Danksta

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

"very behind"?

Altmer/dunmer/breton have like 5k+ more max magicka than any other race. Altmer and dunmer also have extra elemental damage.

That gives them a huge boost over other races. 5k magicka is the equivalent of 475 spell damage. Then you have have the 2-7% boost to elemental damage, which also substantially increases DPS.

The differences between the races are massive. The same applies to stamina, of course.

5k+ more max magicka?? Where are you pulling this number from? In order to get 5k max magicka boost from a 10% racial passive you'd need to have 50k max magicka before multipliers. So before slotting Inner Light/Bound Aegis, undaunted passives, or any other percent buffs to max magicka.

GoodFella146

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

It's always been a fact of the elder scrolls lore than High Elves are the best race. Complaining about it won't change what's true.

Someone who gets it