Due to racial imbalance, high elf is the most popular race by far, followed by dark elf

Benemime

It's frustrating playing with magicka character knowing that you are very behind if you are not playing with a high elf, so, because of that, we see a lot of high elves filling every alliance, high elf in daggerfall covenant, ebonheart, etc.

I was checking my achievements and noticed something that I already suspected: high elves are the most popular race (and they don't even look that good?)

Under the "Player VS Player" achievement section, I was checking numbers for every race (the race slayer achievement, kill X players from a specific race), here are my numbers:

1st: 54 high elves already killed
2nd: 46 - dark elf
3rd: 31 - wood elf
4th: 24 - nord
5th: 23 - redguard
6th: 15 - Breton
7/8th: 14/14 - khajits and orcs
9th: 13 - argonians
10th: 9 - imperials

stewhead2ub17_ESO

"very behind"?

phaneub17_ESO

Well duh, they both have Bonus to Elemental damage. Argonians are probably the highest on Healer count, Imperials being locked behind a paywall and are mostly suitable for tank roles should be lowest.

DeadlyPhoenix

Those achievements in now way depict how popular a race is. Yes high elf is presumably the most populated, but I don't see nearly as many dark elves as I do redguards.

That's just in PvP as well and a lot of people are dead set against PvP at all.

Race isn't crucial unless you're a min/max person. My sorcerer used to be a wood elf before race changed and honestly I did not notice a huge spike in dps or my ability to kill players in PvP. This was a magicka build and wood elf doesn't help magicka at all with passives.

Benemime

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Those achievements in now way depict how popular a race is. Yes high elf is presumably the most populated, but I don't see nearly as many dark elves as I do redguards.

That's just in PvP as well and a lot of people are dead set against PvP at all.

Race isn't crucial unless you're a min/max person. My sorcerer used to be a wood elf before race changed and honestly I did not notice a huge spike in dps or my ability to kill players in PvP. This was a magicka build and wood elf doesn't help magicka at all with passives.

Well, so why don't u roll back to wood elf than since it doesn't matter? Lol.

Smasherx74

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Those achievements in now way depict how popular a race is. Yes high elf is presumably the most populated, but I don't see nearly as many dark elves as I do redguards.

That's just in PvP as well and a lot of people are dead set against PvP at all.

Race isn't crucial unless you're a min/max person. My sorcerer used to be a wood elf before race changed and honestly I did not notice a huge spike in dps or my ability to kill players in PvP. This was a magicka build and wood elf doesn't help magicka at all with passives.

Not even min/max, certain racial passives are just generally better for either sustain or damage.


A khajitt templar back when Crit builds were a thing idk if they still are, will perform more dps than a nord which will help you survive, or a redguard which will help you sustain.

DeadlyPhoenix

Benemime wrote: »

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Those achievements in now way depict how popular a race is. Yes high elf is presumably the most populated, but I don't see nearly as many dark elves as I do redguards.

That's just in PvP as well and a lot of people are dead set against PvP at all.

Race isn't crucial unless you're a min/max person. My sorcerer used to be a wood elf before race changed and honestly I did not notice a huge spike in dps or my ability to kill players in PvP. This was a magicka build and wood elf doesn't help magicka at all with passives.

Well, so why don't u roll back to wood elf than since it doesn't matter? Lol.

Why spend the extra crowns? It does matter I just said it's not crucial.

Smasherx74 wrote: »

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Those achievements in now way depict how popular a race is. Yes high elf is presumably the most populated, but I don't see nearly as many dark elves as I do redguards.

That's just in PvP as well and a lot of people are dead set against PvP at all.

Race isn't crucial unless you're a min/max person. My sorcerer used to be a wood elf before race changed and honestly I did not notice a huge spike in dps or my ability to kill players in PvP. This was a magicka build and wood elf doesn't help magicka at all with passives.

Not even min/max, certain racial passives are just generally better for either sustain or damage.


A khajitt templar back when Crit builds were a thing idk if they still are, will perform more dps than a nord which will help you survive, or a redguard which will help you sustain.

Yes certain racial passives help with different builds. However that does not mean there is one best race per class. It depends on your play style, stamina or magicka, sets, groups you run with, etc.

Main point was PvP achievement kills don't mean anything when it comes to racial popularity. I see a ton of orcs in Cyrodiil and it's ranked near the bottom of his list as well as argonians.

MLGProPlayer

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

"very behind"?

Altmer/dunmer/breton have like 5k+ more max magicka than any other race. Altmer and dunmer also have extra elemental damage.

That gives them a huge boost over other races. 5k magicka is the equivalent of 475 spell damage. Then you have have the 2-7% boost to elemental damage, which also substantially increases DPS.

The differences between the races are massive. The same applies to stamina, of course.

Lazarus_Rising

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

"very behind"?

Altmer/dunmer/breton have like 5k+ more max magicka than any other race. Altmer and dunmer also have extra elemental damage.

That gives them a huge boost over other races. 5k magicka is the equivalent of 475 spell damage. Then you have have the 2-7% boost to elemental damage, which also substantially increases DPS.

The differences between the races are massive. The same applies to stamina, of course.

This. Nonetheless i currently play a mage imperial because i want to

Sting864

Benemime wrote: »

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Those achievements in now way depict how popular a race is. Yes high elf is presumably the most populated, but I don't see nearly as many dark elves as I do redguards.

That's just in PvP as well and a lot of people are dead set against PvP at all.

Race isn't crucial unless you're a min/max person. My sorcerer used to be a wood elf before race changed and honestly I did not notice a huge spike in dps or my ability to kill players in PvP. This was a magicka build and wood elf doesn't help magicka at all with passives.

Well, so why don't u roll back to wood elf than since it doesn't matter? Lol.

Duh! Because it doesn't matter, why bother rolling back???

Benemime

Sting864 wrote: »

Benemime wrote: »

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Those achievements in now way depict how popular a race is. Yes high elf is presumably the most populated, but I don't see nearly as many dark elves as I do redguards.

That's just in PvP as well and a lot of people are dead set against PvP at all.

Race isn't crucial unless you're a min/max person. My sorcerer used to be a wood elf before race changed and honestly I did not notice a huge spike in dps or my ability to kill players in PvP. This was a magicka build and wood elf doesn't help magicka at all with passives.

Well, so why don't u roll back to wood elf than since it doesn't matter? Lol.

Duh! Because it doesn't matter, why bother rolling back???

Except that it DOES matter. 9% magicka recovery, elemental damage, 10% max magicka DOES matter a lot. I asked but I was being sarcastic, not expecting people to actually come with bullsh__. As others already stated and backed me up, it's a huge boost.

Benemime

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Benemime wrote: »

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Those achievements in now way depict how popular a race is. Yes high elf is presumably the most populated, but I don't see nearly as many dark elves as I do redguards.

That's just in PvP as well and a lot of people are dead set against PvP at all.

Race isn't crucial unless you're a min/max person. My sorcerer used to be a wood elf before race changed and honestly I did not notice a huge spike in dps or my ability to kill players in PvP. This was a magicka build and wood elf doesn't help magicka at all with passives.

Well, so why don't u roll back to wood elf than since it doesn't matter? Lol.

Why spend the extra crowns? It does matter I just said it's not crucial.

Smasherx74 wrote: »

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Those achievements in now way depict how popular a race is. Yes high elf is presumably the most populated, but I don't see nearly as many dark elves as I do redguards.

That's just in PvP as well and a lot of people are dead set against PvP at all.

Race isn't crucial unless you're a min/max person. My sorcerer used to be a wood elf before race changed and honestly I did not notice a huge spike in dps or my ability to kill players in PvP. This was a magicka build and wood elf doesn't help magicka at all with passives.

Not even min/max, certain racial passives are just generally better for either sustain or damage.


A khajitt templar back when Crit builds were a thing idk if they still are, will perform more dps than a nord which will help you survive, or a redguard which will help you sustain.

Yes certain racial passives help with different builds. However that does not mean there is one best race per class. It depends on your play style, stamina or magicka, sets, groups you run with, etc.

So if you know it DOES matter why u trying to argue in favor of racial passives being unbalanced (and lacking freedom) like the way it currently is? "Oh it's not crucial" - It is crucial for pvp and end game pve. For casually questing isn't crucial because you only have to ask for the mob to die and they will obey u without arguing.

Main point was PvP achievement kills don't mean anything when it comes to racial popularity. I see a ton of orcs in Cyrodiil and it's ranked near the bottom of his list as well as argonians.

Oh just because you have seen orcs, you think that's pretty much an evidence of "there's many more orcs out there"? I have actual numbers that shows that high elves are easier to find. I bet everyone has the same numbers as me. (Except if they already completed these achievements). And you saw for yourself, they are near the bottom as well. So, maybe they are just much harder to kill then? No. They are just not as many.

mb10

Argonian is master PVP race tbh

Adernath

@Benemine

What imbalance? What do you want to play anyways? PvE, PvP ...? If you want to play a stamina character, high-elf is not the optimal choice for example. I am happy that in regards of racial passives there is still a small diversity and its also lore friendly.

Seriously these passives are there since ages, I never saw anyone complaining until now

Knowledge

People love elves. A lot of players, believe it or not, just choose race based on appearance. I doubt the majority of the player base is concerned with min maxing.

Geru77

Benemime wrote: »

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Those achievements in now way depict how popular a race is. Yes high elf is presumably the most populated, but I don't see nearly as many dark elves as I do redguards.

That's just in PvP as well and a lot of people are dead set against PvP at all.

Race isn't crucial unless you're a min/max person. My sorcerer used to be a wood elf before race changed and honestly I did not notice a huge spike in dps or my ability to kill players in PvP. This was a magicka build and wood elf doesn't help magicka at all with passives.

Well, so why don't u roll back to wood elf than since it doesn't matter? Lol.

Just breath and try to enjoy the game bub.

Kiralyn2000

How do you know that the pvp kill charts show how popular a race is? Maybe it shows how weak they are! After all, you couldn't kill as many of the other races.....

(You've only killed 9 Imperials? Clearly they're indestructible! )


....hmm, there's actually probably some truth to that. The classes with the highest pvp survivability (perma-block tanks, etc), would lead to the most popular races for those classes showing up less on kill charts.

Knowledge wrote: »

People love elves. A lot of players, believe it or not, just choose race based on appearance.

Yep. That's why I've never made an Altmer in any of the TES games I've played - they seem kind of ugly/odd-looking to me.

Ragged_Claw

I'm not sure of the thrust of the argument here. Racial passives have been a staple of Elder Scrolls games since the beginning. If you want to be a magicka character then choose a race with magicka passives, High Elf and Breton being the best. If you want a stamina based character then it's Redguard or Bosmer, for a stealth build, Khajiit, tank build Nord or Argonian and so on and so on. Where is the imbalance? My high elf can nuke things but she has to make the choice between dodge rolling or blocking because she has no stam and if something more dangerous than a big sneeze hits her she is dead. It would only be an imbalance if she also had huge health and stamina and no other race did. And yes, you have killed more High Elves in PvP because they have mucho attack but no defence, it's not rocket science.

MLGProPlayer

Ragged_Claw wrote: »

I'm not sure of the thrust of the argument here. Racial passives have been a staple of Elder Scrolls games since the beginning. If you want to be a magicka character then choose a race with magicka passives, High Elf and Breton being the best. If you want a stamina based character then it's Redguard or Bosmer, for a stealth build, Khajiit, tank build Nord or Argonian and so on and so on. Where is the imbalance? My high elf can nuke things but she has to make the choice between dodge rolling or blocking because she has no stam and if something more dangerous than a big sneeze hits her she is dead. It would only be an imbalance if she also had huge health and stamina and no other race did. And yes, you have killed more High Elves in PvP because they have mucho attack but no defence, it's not rocket science.

There is imbalance in that some races downright suck (like nord), while other races, although decent, are far from optimal (altmer/dunmer is noticeably better than breton at magicka DPS, redguard is better at stamina DPS than everyone else, argonian is noticeably better at tanking/healing than anyone else).

Unbalanced racial passives greatly limit what races you can play if you want to min-max.

DanteYoda

Like i said racial bonuses ruined ESO at least in creating characters.. Very annoying..

Needs a balance overhaul.

Knowledge wrote: »

People love elves. A lot of players, believe it or not, just choose race based on appearance. I doubt the majority of the player base is concerned with min maxing.

Most people will go for 5%-10% more damage out of a character over looks.. no matter what..

SilverIce58

Knowledge wrote: »

People love elves. A lot of players, believe it or not, just choose race based on appearance. I doubt the majority of the player base is concerned with min maxing.

Very much this. I won't make an Orc because of those tusks and jaws of theirs. But I will make an Altmer stamplar or a Breton stam warden because it fits a theme or backstory I have for them. Honestly, unless you're doing vet trials, it really doesn't matter what race/class combo you pick.

Ragged_Claw

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Ragged_Claw wrote: »

I'm not sure of the thrust of the argument here. Racial passives have been a staple of Elder Scrolls games since the beginning. If you want to be a magicka character then choose a race with magicka passives, High Elf and Breton being the best. If you want a stamina based character then it's Redguard or Bosmer, for a stealth build, Khajiit, tank build Nord or Argonian and so on and so on. Where is the imbalance? My high elf can nuke things but she has to make the choice between dodge rolling or blocking because she has no stam and if something more dangerous than a big sneeze hits her she is dead. It would only be an imbalance if she also had huge health and stamina and no other race did. And yes, you have killed more High Elves in PvP because they have mucho attack but no defence, it's not rocket science.

There is imbalance in that some races downright suck (like nord), while other races, although decent, are far from optimal (altmer/dunmer is noticeably better than breton at magicka DPS, redguard is better at stamina DPS than everyone else, argonian is noticeably better at tanking/healing than anyone else).

Unbalanced racial passives greatly limit what races you can play if you want to min-max.

Ah fair enough, I know poor Nords need some serious tweaking passive wise, and to be fair I don't min max. I chose High Elf in the beta because that's what I'd always played in Elder Scrolls games when I wanted to be a magika char. I chose my redguard stam build for the same reason. And my tanks in ES games were always Nord, but yeah that didn't work out so well in ESO.

AlnilamE

Well, you couldn't pay me to play an Atmer.

Also, what alliance was the character you checked this achievement on? Because the distribution of races you will kill will depend on that as well.

Zorgon_The_Revenged

If High Elves were that good maybe you wouldn't have killed so many?

I could say "Imperials are too hard to kill", "Elves Die too easily, possible link to ear shape?", "PvPers prefer tall/white/blondes", "Orc stam sorcs need a buff, they are as bad as Khajiit", "1% xp better than 1% AP", "Red Diamond passive needs a nerf!!"

Benemime wrote: »

1st: 54 high elves already killed
2nd: 46 - dark elf
3rd: 31 - wood elf
4th: 24 - nord
5th: 23 - redguard
6th: 15 - Breton
7/8th: 14/14 - khajits and orcs
9th: 13 - argonians
10th: 9 - imperials

EDIT: "This one stole nothing, This one has a war to fight......let me out!"

zaria

Ragged_Claw wrote: »

I'm not sure of the thrust of the argument here. Racial passives have been a staple of Elder Scrolls games since the beginning. If you want to be a magicka character then choose a race with magicka passives, High Elf and Breton being the best. If you want a stamina based character then it's Redguard or Bosmer, for a stealth build, Khajiit, tank build Nord or Argonian and so on and so on. Where is the imbalance? My high elf can nuke things but she has to make the choice between dodge rolling or blocking because she has no stam and if something more dangerous than a big sneeze hits her she is dead. It would only be an imbalance if she also had huge health and stamina and no other race did. And yes, you have killed more High Elves in PvP because they have mucho attack but no defence, it's not rocket science.

Has you played Daggerfall, Morrowind or Oblivion?
In the old games racials was an mostly an starting bonus in skills and stats, this would be negated as leveling up as it was far easier to raise low level skills. They was single player games who was easy at higher levels and last two had difficulty sliders.

ESO turn this on its head, here racials is an end game bonus, all races is equal at the start but changes as you level up.
In an competitive multi player game, note that the racial tips on character creation is pretty much the same as in skyrim.
Why? its pretty simple system survived beta as it did not matter because we had soft caps. Racial ultimates was removed.

later ZoS removed soft caps without changing the racials, why, probably the same reason we have no search in guild stores, an question of skill i think. Also they did not see this as much an problem as players do.

And you get lots of altmers as they are the best magic race.

Princess_Ciri

It's always been a fact of the elder scrolls lore than High Elves are the best race. Complaining about it won't change what's true.

Lysette

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Ragged_Claw wrote: »

I'm not sure of the thrust of the argument here. Racial passives have been a staple of Elder Scrolls games since the beginning. If you want to be a magicka character then choose a race with magicka passives, High Elf and Breton being the best. If you want a stamina based character then it's Redguard or Bosmer, for a stealth build, Khajiit, tank build Nord or Argonian and so on and so on. Where is the imbalance? My high elf can nuke things but she has to make the choice between dodge rolling or blocking because she has no stam and if something more dangerous than a big sneeze hits her she is dead. It would only be an imbalance if she also had huge health and stamina and no other race did. And yes, you have killed more High Elves in PvP because they have mucho attack but no defence, it's not rocket science.

There is imbalance in that some races downright suck (like nord), while other races, although decent, are far from optimal (altmer/dunmer is noticeably better than breton at magicka DPS, redguard is better at stamina DPS than everyone else, argonian is noticeably better at tanking/healing than anyone else).

Unbalanced racial passives greatly limit what races you can play if you want to min-max.

Hm, my youngest is a Nord warden - and she is the most fun for me to play actually - with and without her bear.

Grendel_at_ESO

Why would anyone pick a race because of how it looks? Other than tails on lizards and cats they all look the same from behind.

Lysette

Grendel_at_ESO wrote: »

Why would anyone pick a race because of how it looks? Other than tails on lizards and cats they all look the same from behind.

This is not a matter of looks or the performance to me - playing a Khajiit or Argonian comes from the very heart. I really like their ways and appearance and in every TES game I played a Khajiit first. Argonians are somewhat hated or disliked by a lot of the other races and I don't know why really, they are in their own way smart and resourceful, so I have a heart for them as well. I have a dislike of Altmer though, even I play one as well - but in general I dislike their high-nosed arrogant comments.

Smasherx74

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Yes certain racial passives help with different builds. However that does not mean there is one best race per class. It depends on your play style, stamina or magicka, sets, groups you run with, etc.

To simplify what you said, Racial Passives are a determining factor in being optimal with a build.


I was simply stating the fact they help wth certain play styles, but you just implied there isn't a best race for class. Which is 100% incorrect. Classes have different optimizations for certain builds. Wardens and specifically templars are better for healing, DKs are better for tanking, Nightblades and even Sorcs are good at PVP ganking. J

So if you want to run around cyrodill for example with a DK and build to gank, it's not going to be at all useful like a Nightblade gank would be. If you want to run around purging debuffs you're better off being a templar. If you want to help buff the group a DK has major brutality last i checked.

Obviously this isn't like many other MMOs where a specific class or race will completely dictate how you'll perform. That's a black and white argument, what I'm saying here in this post is you're better off using a specific race for your specific class/build. You can use a nord for dps stamplar, but guess what? You're going to do more burst with either a Khajitt.


Edit: again before you try attacking me, I originally was speaking about the usefulness for non-BiS builds. But if you want to attempt to argue that there isn't a best race for a certain class, then that's an ENTIRELY different set of issues and you're utterly wrong.

Nyladreas

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Those achievements in now way depict how popular a race is. Yes high elf is presumably the most populated, but I don't see nearly as many dark elves as I do redguards.

That's just in PvP as well and a lot of people are dead set against PvP at all.

Race isn't crucial unless you're a min/max person. My sorcerer used to be a wood elf before race changed and honestly I did not notice a huge spike in dps or my ability to kill players in PvP. This was a magicka build and wood elf doesn't help magicka at all with passives.

If a racial means a difference between 300 extra spell damage and way higher resource pool... It's not even a min maxer thing. That there is a a HUGE disadvantage.