Healing Staff vs Lightning Staff

DanteYoda

perogwin_ESO wrote: »

Guess I will continue not using that character then since my entire concept for it is destroyed, oh well he was fun while he lasted.

This is why i detest min maxing and cookie cutter builds.. Anything outside of the tiny box is bad and cannot be used.. Why even have all these extra skills and classes if they aren't worth using at end game..

Seems like a huge waste of time and coding.

I also have issues with the bar swapping i cannot do it for the life of me my hand eye coordination isn't that good i have to use 1 bar as well.

DoctorESO

perogwin_ESO wrote: »

A while ago I created an Argonian Templar that I used as a DPS that could go heals in a pinch. I had a lot of DOT abilities that I used with the Valkan set and it was quite effective. I decided to use Healing Staves on both bars DPS Front/ Heal Back, it was a lot of fun to play until I ran into a few different people in dungeons who were annoyed I was using the Heal Staff for DPS. I switched the DPS bar to a lightning staff and tried playing it that way but I really did not like the way it worked, so instead of putting up with people yelling at me for Healing Staves on DPS I just stopped playing the character.

Please note, even when I moved to lightning staff it wasn’t like I was using any skills from the line, just the passives.

So my question is: Does a Healing Staff really do that much less DPS damage vs. a lightning staff, at least enough to warrant the PUG threatening to kick me if I didn’t get a real weapon for DPS, or were they just misinformed about it?

Yes, it does make a significant difference. Test out your DPS on a training dummy and you'll see (or use Combat Metrics if you are on PC).

Tasear

O.o this sounds like my experience. As a healer I would stop the journey if I saw another guy with resto staff. That's like seeing a dps with shield and board or Frost staff dps. It's a sign potential bad experience.

If you want heal then queue as one in dungeon finder. You can do paltry dps along with it. If you want to dps with your set up then you need 20k to 30k to be taken seriously. You would need to work hard to push your potential because yes you missing significant damage without destro skills and passives.

perogwin_ESO

Tasear wrote: »

O.o this sounds like my experience. As a healer I would stop the journey if I saw another guy with resto staff. That's like seeing a dps with shield and board or Frost staff dps. It's a sign potential bad experience.

Then hopefully we never team up - I have a full Cryomancer DPS - all ice all the time including staff (but not the passive that gives taunt) - and an Archer whose second bar is only used up close and personal with sword and board but not for tanking (he is also a werewolf but only on his melee 2ndary bar).

perogwin_ESO

DanteYoda wrote: »

This is why i detest min maxing and cookie cutter builds.. Anything outside of the tiny box is bad and cannot be used.. Why even have all these extra skills and classes if they aren't worth using at end game..

I also have issues with the bar swapping i cannot do it for the life of me my hand eye coordination isn't that good i have to use 1 bar as well.

Min/max and Cookie cutter builds are what takes all the fun out of the game for me. That is why I giggle every time an ESO Update screws up the current "Meta" by altering skills and the M/M and C/C get all besides themselves and start to whine.

Also glad to see I am not the only one with issues at bar swapping

perogwin_ESO

Since I am not trying to do Trials or any real endgame and mainly sticking to PVE and the Random Dailies I think I will just make the builds I want to play, and if the PUG wants to get rid of me let them.

I am tired of other people spoiling my fun in the game because the build I am enjoying doesn't meet their requirements.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

perogwin_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

O.o this sounds like my experience. As a healer I would stop the journey if I saw another guy with resto staff. That's like seeing a dps with shield and board or Frost staff dps. It's a sign potential bad experience.

Then hopefully we never team up - I have a full Cryomancer DPS - all ice all the time including staff (but not the passive that gives taunt) - and an Archer whose second bar is only used up close and personal with sword and board but not for tanking (he is also a werewolf but only on his melee 2ndary bar).

I hope I am never put with you either @perogwin_ESO

Tasear

Are you doing normal randoms or vet?

perogwin_ESO wrote: »

Since I am not trying to do Trials or any real endgame and mainly sticking to PVE and the Random Dailies I think I will just make the builds I want to play, and if the PUG wants to get rid of me let them.

I am tired of other people spoiling my fun in the game because the build I am enjoying doesn't meet their requirements.

But yes you can have fun, but in a team you still need to do your part. I still advise you to select healer icon. You will be happier and you qualify more for this role.

phaneub17_ESO

I have a Breton Templar who uses 1H + Shield on my Front Bar with Blazing Spear, Soul Splitting Trap, Puncturing Sweep, Ritual of Retribution, Breath of Life, and Empowering Sweep. The focus is mostly being melee with a lot of Damage Over Time effects active all at once. Both Blazing Spear and Ritual of Retribution leave ground AOE that does Damage Over Time, Souls Splitting Trap is a 3 target DoT, Puncturing Sweep and Empowering Sweep are cheap melee spammables with DoT effects. Incidentally I play 15 characters, so I end up with a LOT of empty Soul gems so this character is my restocker with Soul Splitting Trap which is why I use it.

My backbar uses a Resto Staff with a different setup based on what I'm doing, when I'm solo play I have Dark Flare(Empower), Reflective Light(Spell Crit), Degeneration(Major Sorcery), Channeled Focus for Magicka Regen, Repentance, and Solar Prison. When in groups I swap out the first 3 spells for Healing Springs, Combat Prayer, and Rapid Regeneration and generally queue as a healer; the rest remains the same.

Bigevilpeter

I play double resto and do damage just fine, people forget that templars have an aoe elemental drain with radient aura. I also use IA so I don't need to concuss enemies.

Also it is now the job of dps with light staff or asylem staff to apply status not healer

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

I play double resto and do damage just fine, people forget that templars have an aoe elemental drain with radient aura. I also use IA so I don't need to concuss enemies.

Also it is now the job of dps with light staff or asylem staff to apply status not healer

You don't apply concussion for just the extra 8%, it is to proc off balance with lightning wall, which is extra 10% more damage on the target, pretty much just for Stam DPS these day but off balance also gives double the resources back on heavys, something everyone can benefit from.

Also, radiant aura is outclassed by the restoring staff skill siphon spirit, siphon spirit costs half as much, lasts for longer and heals everyone hitting the target as well. Minor health steal is the only way to heal more then six people at a time. And it doesn't pull mobs through walls. Of course eledrian is better then both of the former.

Gnortranermara

I run several different variations on my DPS Magplar depending on the circumstances, and resto/lightning is one of the most versatile. You are giving up a LOT of DPS if you don't run a lightning staff on at least one bar. (True pure DPS should run double destro, either 2 lightning or 1 lightning + 1 inferno.) Blockade is a huge DPS boost (even more with a Maelstrom staff), the lightning heavy attack does AOE damage, and all AOE abilities hit at least 8% harder. Try this:

Resto bar: Ritual of Retribution, Blazing Spear, Radiant, Healing Ward, Inner Light, Meteor
Lightning bar: Blockade, Reflective Light, Puncturing Sweeps, Harness Magicka, Inner Light, Elemental Rage

This is a super easy build that's good for both solo play and running as a DPS/healer hybrid in 4-man dungeons and vDSA.

Aurielle

perogwin_ESO wrote: »

Since I am not trying to do Trials or any real endgame and mainly sticking to PVE and the Random Dailies I think I will just make the builds I want to play, and if the PUG wants to get rid of me let them.

I am tired of other people spoiling my fun in the game because the build I am enjoying doesn't meet their requirements.

If that’s the attitude you’re going to take, then you can look forward to irritating LOTS of players and getting lots of votes to kick in the future, especially if you’re running vet dungeons. We’ve tried to help you, and you’re doubling down on your decisions out of sheer stubbornness. An Argonian Templar using two resto staves, a heavy armour PVP set, and only one bar for damage is almost certainly pulling under 10k DPS. If you’re happy subjecting your allies to tank-level DPS with your build, then have at it — just don’t expect any sympathy from tanks or healers who actually want to finish the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time.

Bigevilpeter

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

I play double resto and do damage just fine, people forget that templars have an aoe elemental drain with radient aura. I also use IA so I don't need to concuss enemies.

Also it is now the job of dps with light staff or asylem staff to apply status not healer

You don't apply concussion for just the extra 8%, it is to proc off balance with lightning wall, which is extra 10% more damage on the target, pretty much just for Stam DPS these day but off balance also gives double the resources back on heavys, something everyone can benefit from.

Also, radiant aura is outclassed by the restoring staff skill siphon spirit, siphon spirit costs half as much, lasts for longer and heals everyone hitting the target as well. Minor health steal is the only way to heal more then six people at a time. And it doesn't pull mobs through walls. Of course eledrian is better then both of the former.

How is Ele drain or force siphon better than radient aura?? radient aura is basically 1 click and all enemies get it, while force siphon has cast time and both it and ele drain needs to applied to every single mob. The major breech is already applied by the tank so ele drain is only needed for magika steal

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

I play double resto and do damage just fine, people forget that templars have an aoe elemental drain with radient aura. I also use IA so I don't need to concuss enemies.

Also it is now the job of dps with light staff or asylem staff to apply status not healer

You don't apply concussion for just the extra 8%, it is to proc off balance with lightning wall, which is extra 10% more damage on the target, pretty much just for Stam DPS these day but off balance also gives double the resources back on heavys, something everyone can benefit from.

Also, radiant aura is outclassed by the restoring staff skill siphon spirit, siphon spirit costs half as much, lasts for longer and heals everyone hitting the target as well. Minor health steal is the only way to heal more then six people at a time. And it doesn't pull mobs through walls. Of course eledrian is better then both of the former.

How is Ele drain or force siphon better than radient aura?? radient aura is basically 1 click and all enemies get it, while force siphon has cast time and both it and ele drain needs to applied to every single mob. The major breech is already applied by the tank so ele drain is only needed for magika steal

Eledrain is free, gives major breach, which helps uptime on that even if the tank is running the right morph of puncture, doesn't pull mobs when you cast it and last for 33% longer.

Siphon spirit is half the cost of radiant aura, 1980 base cost vs 3510 base cost for radiant aura, lasts for 2 seconds longer, 20 seconds vs 18 and applys minor health steal, which I am almost certain is the only way to heal more then six players at a time in the game.

Radiant aura 100% does pull mobs through walls, I have had it happen tons in ICP and elden hollow and such. The skill has a 28 meter range and no line of sight check.

You only need to apply siphon spirit to the highest health mob and with eledrian, since it is free and has no cast time, it is trivial to spam it in a few mobs before you engage, since it doesn't pull aggro.

All those reasons are more then enough to not use radiant aura. The skill is just junk. Even the 10% extra Regen is a minor buff that you can get from a sorc or warden healer.

DoctorESO

Saying "I'm going to use my restoration staff for DPS and screw everyone else" is just as selfish as people who want DPS to use lightning/inferno staves. Actually, probably more selfish, because you are coming into a community where it is the norm and expected that DPS will use lightning/inferno staves.

"When I play pickup basketball, I will only do three-point shots and never do anything else, because that's what I want to do and screw everyone else."

"When I run team relay track, I will take a break midway through my lap because that's what I want to do and screw everyone else."

perogwin_ESO

perogwin_ESO wrote: »

Since I am not trying to do Trials or any real endgame and mainly sticking to PVE and the Random Dailies I think I will just make the builds I want to play, and if the PUG wants to get rid of me let them.

I am tired of other people spoiling my fun in the game because the build I am enjoying doesn't meet their requirements.

Sorry that didn't come out correct (in my defense I was heavily medicated at the time). What I was trying to say is with characters like my double resto staff Templar I will simply stick to PVE so I can enjoy the character the way I like to play without having to worry about other people. Maybe do an occasion random daily with it and see how it goes. There were tons of times I did pugs an no one ever complained about the set up, I was simply focusing on the few rare occasions some one did. For every Minmax/Cookie Cutter/ Mets Build Player you run into there are 100 people who could care less if you have a weird build as long as you are pleasant, fun to group with, and at least try to pull your weight in the dungeon.

I won't let the small number of people who complain bother me, if I run into a PUG with one of them I will simply leave of my own free will, no muss no fuss!

perogwin_ESO

Tasear wrote: »

O.o this sounds like my experience. As a healer I would stop the journey if I saw another guy with resto staff. That's like seeing a dps with shield and board or Frost staff dps. It's a sign potential bad experience.

I rethought my statement to you that followed this post above and apologize (again I blame the meds). After I got back in my right mind I took into account your statement and changed the one character from Bow/Sword + Board DPS to Bow/2 Handed DPS - and reconfigured my Frost Staff DPS to a Frost Staff Tank (will take me some time to sort out tanking but I will get there).

Though I am still keeping my Dual Resto DPS/Off Healer Hybrid but I will focus on PVE with him and the occasional Random Daily when bored.

SugaComa

Depends on you skills being used

If you're not weaving in light hits like me ... I have trouble due to arthritis in my hands

Then dual swords front bar and a healing staff back barred is a great way to pull magica as I find the heavy attacks return more than the destro staffs

That said ...you could get better DPS put dots on the back bar rather than heals

Lexxypwns

You cannot be a magika DPS without WoE.

Your top 2 damage dealers are WoE and destro light attack weaves.

wbree57

OP,

There are a lot I can say to this but will try to keep it overall positive. This game has always been play how you like, however you like. You have accepted that. You have politely explained your points and some stuff that holds you back. In addition to that you have accepted and admitted you play casually and do not hold people back in the harder content.

With that said, first off I commend you for asking for help and not just possibly being a burden and wanting to improve. Many people don't do that.

But lets get to the meat and potatoes of this. You have asked the pros vs cons of resto/destro for a DPS. You like to use the templar class skill that give minor magic steal over using ele drain. The forum has brought up siphon, just ignore that, its junk. Ele drain gives a better group support than ritual will for this simple reason, it gives the penetration that allows the group to do more damage, plus magic steal, all for free. Wall of elements is also within access if using a destro staff now. The biggest reason for this is the obvious DPS increase plus AoE damage that will kill adds faster. Your argument for not using this was then that you want to proc skoria, great monster helm choice. WALL OF ELEMENTS WILL PROC YOUR SKORIA!!!! As will shards.

Long story short, swap to a destro, it will be better.

Hope this helps.

DoctorESO

Lexxypwns wrote: »

You cannot be a magika DPS without WoE.

Your top 2 damage dealers are WoE and destro light attack weaves.

Especially with a maelstrom destro staff.

LiberatorSam

No one will care if you are pulling good dps with a weird build, I have seen 40k parse with snipe (focus aim). Post a boss parse in group chat to shut them up if you truely have “good” dps.

The_Art_of_Paw

I've experienced that kind of hate in dungeons with builds that are different to what people expect. I just don't run those builds in that environment. There are still plenty of players on the game that enjoy me carrying them through content with builds that are different to the meta.

I wouldn't change a build design that you find fun, I would just avoid the places that make it feel toxic to play, which is unfortunately most of the random public grouping scene. Afterall, you can see its doing good dps, often better then the second dps though that's the public scene that people judge (often out of fear or their own insecurities) before they see the results.

Tinus_92

You don't want to run a destro staff because you're having sustain issues while slotting this, at the same time you don't want to run elemental drain?

It's exactly this skill healers use so much to both sustain theirselves AND their teammates, as elemental drain is a free skill and improves magicka regen by like 300 per enemy. If you put elemental drain on all bosses + mayor adds, you should get rid of the sustain issues completely, especially as a healer. Let alone that elemental drain also debuffs the bosses/adds being hit, making them killed nearly twice as fast if not debuffed by the tank already.

I also got a flexible magicka templar dd/heal, but got different sets depending on the role you got. If you're healing, you'll probably need more magicka generation as when you're going for a pure DPS build for example. Try to make different setups so you can switch between them, and practise.

For food, perhaps take witchmothers' drinks, you can get a hundred drinks (lasting 2 hours each, so that's a 200 hours coverage), which also help a lot in sustain for less then <5000 gold.

FrancisCrawford

Nestor wrote: »

You only need a 3 skill rotation on your Lightening Bar for your healer to do some decent DPS

1. Reflecting Light
2. Wall of Elements
3. Pulsar or Force Pulse

No reason to not have the above skills on a Staff Bar your just horsing around with. And, you have two more slots left for other things that you might want.

Shards. Every healing templar should run Shards. If the group/instance allows for a DPS rotation, Shards should be in it. (This is the usual case.) If there's no time for a DPS rotation, then Shards are probably worth running anyway to make things easier for your tank & perhaps also DDs.

zaria

LiberatorSam wrote: »

No one will care if you are pulling good dps with a weird build, I have seen 40k parse with snipe (focus aim). Post a boss parse in group chat to shut them up if you truely have “good” dps.

This sums it up well, also 40K is also trial level, if you do 20-25K dps and stay alive all are happy in any dungeons no matter how weird your build is.

vrine

Wow this thread is a rollercoaster, what a wild ride

Menelaos

perogwin_ESO wrote: »

Guess I will continue not using that character then since my entire concept for it is destroyed, oh well he was fun while he lasted.

Sounds like you are deterred far too easily. You can play a healer/supporter with two restoration staves, he's just not a pure DPS anymore. A Templar can slot Siphoning Spirit and/or Radiant Aura for the Life-/Magickasteal debuff and you can slot Luminous Shards for some AoE damage as well. True, you would lose on damage output but overall - and from what you've told us - it's not a reason to trash the character. Never let PUGs tell you what to do or make stupid demands.

KingMagaw

Depends on how good to the team you want to be tbh.

Normal dungeons are easy. Vet dungeons are easy so only vTrials you actually need to play. In that case it is the healers job to heal and do no DPS for optimum group. Healers job is also applying Ele drain to bosses for the Minor Magikasteal that you and other MagDD's heavy attack for more magika back. If healer fails at this i ele drain my own targets as magsorc dd then no problem.

As for DPS if my team member is pulling over 30k i know instantly and dont even care what they are using to do so.

In the end it comes down to how good or how much others want to carry someone. Catch me in a good mood and i have carried 3 new players through vICP with little hassle. Other times, i expect everyone to be practised in there own role.