Dummy Guilds - the answer to stop this practice?

Grimm13 · May 2018

zaria wrote: »

As I read the scam work as following:
you get 50 players in your trading guild to join the dummy guild.
Guild leader take out say 10 millions from the real guild and place an bid on trader with dummy guild.
Dummy guild win the bid, guild leader then disband dummy guild and buy the free slott for 10K gold.
The bid from the dummy guild get refunded to guild leader who can then repeat next week.

I have no idea if this is correct or the missing guild name on trader is just an visual bug in line with guild sometimes report having no trader even if it has.
If true, simply not returning the gold for bid on disband will solve this.

ZOS really needs to make that change on how Traders handle a disbanded guild. It would be great if they made they change without saying and catch all that did it that week off guard making them lose the large chunk of gold.

It is no less an exploit and should be treated as such by ZOS. There should be a record they can review on who has been doing this and act accordingly against them.

Grimm13 · May 2018

Fleshreaper wrote: »

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Nestor wrote: »

No, the easy and best solution is to keep the gold of the guild that disbands after winning a kiosk.

I mean, the guild does not exist, right? So, no one to send the gold too.

It would stop this practice cold.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

And the guild with the next highest bid should win the kiosk.

Except that the bid money is returned to losing bidders already. To do this proposal you would be to keep all bids for the entire week just to cover any possible disbands. Not an acceptable practice to tie up guild funds that long.

zaria · May 2018

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

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kargen27 wrote: »

Do you know what kind of havoc a few people with a lot of gold could wreak on a global auction house?.

Do you?

Because no matter how many times I see this lame excuse trotted out whenever someone mentions an AH, in over a decade of playing MMORPG with Auction Houses I have never once seen any evidence at all of this "havoc" you allude to; and for some of that 10 years I was playing 40+ hours a week.

All The Best

Because population on WOW servers are limited,

Aliyavana wrote: »

Seems to be more of a console problem, its been a while since pc had this issue

Might be better organisation behind the guild levels.
Or that do you call they guy who manage to focus all the pugs in Cyrodil: Emperor

jazsper77 · May 2018

So there is some major misinformation in this thread. I’m a Founding GM on PC and Console also an officer in many others.

The purpose of dummy/ghost Guilds is 3 reasons.

1. A player who is most of the time a GM or Officer ( need a pipeline to other Guilds) who uses THEIR own money to bid a Trader with the intentions of flipping. $$

2. A Top tier Guild bidding a mid tier trader for back up intentions only in case primary bid is lost.

3. When the Alliance in the PS4 NA wants to push out a Trader from an area they will pool $$$ and bid the guilds spot for a couple of weeks pushing them to a new spot. *******of****** Alliance really good at this.

* MAJOR DISINFORMATION- when you DISBAND a GUILD you do not recieve your BID back. I do not know how this got passed along.

Last year when my Daughter went off to college she asked me to leave a message to her guild for members to take anything from bank they wanted and to end any listings they had in Trader.

jazsper77 · May 2018

After the disband no $$$$ was refunded and they had a Trader in Windhelm. I really have no Idea how this got out there.

Also ALL LOSING GUILDS recieve there bid back. That’s no big deal or out of the ordinary.

Let’s make sure we do our best to give the correct info in case ZOS decides to look into this matter.

Tabbycat · May 2018

If they made it so guilds could not disband after winning the guild trader location, that would stop the whole dummy guilds thing.

Skullstachio · May 2018

Maybe some dummy guilds were designed by those *Cough*B0tt#rs*Cough* since they farm the crap out of certain locations such as camlorn (before the fall of Faolchu) & either use/sell those mats gained for gold & pool it into a dummy guild to bid on a specific location just to aggravate the rest of the "Honest" Guilds.

(Personally, I just wish there was something ZOS could do about it, but it may not be in their jurisdiction on account of the content they may be working on for the long run, so really it is not in their, nor our place to do anything about 'em.)

kargen27 · May 2018

jazsper77 wrote: »

So there is some major misinformation in this thread. I’m a Founding GM on PC and Console also an officer in many others.

The purpose of dummy/ghost Guilds is 3 reasons.

1. A player who is most of the time a GM or Officer ( need a pipeline to other Guilds) who uses THEIR own money to bid a Trader with the intentions of flipping. $$

2. A Top tier Guild bidding a mid tier trader for back up intentions only in case primary bid is lost.

3. When the Alliance in the PS4 NA wants to push out a Trader from an area they will pool $$$ and bid the guilds spot for a couple of weeks pushing them to a new spot. *******of****** Alliance really good at this.

* MAJOR DISINFORMATION- when you DISBAND a GUILD you do not recieve your BID back. I do not know how this got passed along.

Last year when my Daughter went off to college she asked me to leave a message to her guild for members to take anything from bank they wanted and to end any listings they had in Trader.

Numbers one and two are exploiting the game and need to be stopped.

Number three is simply players being (we all know but I am not allowed to type it) and nothing really can be done about that.

Cpt_Teemo · May 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

Seems to be more of a console problem, its been a while since pc had this issue

PC has this almost 2 weeks every month, happend just last week for some of my guilds

Lissiexx · May 2018

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

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Aliyavana wrote: »

Seems to be more of a console problem, its been a while since pc had this issue

PC has this almost 2 weeks every month, happend just last week for some of my guilds

So it is a PC issue too - I thought it must it be - normally exploits are done on all platfrorms.

Question is how can we get ZOS to do something?

Serjustin19 · May 2018

What's a dummy guild?

Lissiexx · May 2018

Serjustin19 wrote: »

What's a dummy guild?

Read the thread and you will understand thanks

Serjustin19 · May 2018

k_hartley4349b16_ESO wrote: »

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Serjustin19 wrote: »

What's a dummy guild?

Read the thread and you will understand thanks

Thanks and your welcome

I'm still confused, but I found an article on Reddit. One comment about Guild dummy is like a Spy in Cyrodiil. In which makes since to me now. https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/6a0ixj/how_do_you_guys_feel_about_guild_dummies/

Lissiexx · May 2018

Serjustin19 wrote: »

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k_hartley4349b16_ESO wrote: »

Serjustin19 wrote: »

What's a dummy guild?

Read the thread and you will understand thanks

Thanks and your welcome

I'm still confused, but I found an article on Reddit. One comment about Guild dummy is like a Spy in Cyrodiil. In which makes since to me now. https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/6a0ixj/how_do_you_guys_feel_about_guild_dummies/

Hi yes that's it really - GMS, officers etc of well known guilds create dummy guilds (6-15 on PS4 EU) and then bid on all top spots - this guarantees them a trader in a top spot if their legitimate bid fails. When the trader switches they then disband the dummy guild and hire with the actual guild they want in that spot for 10k. Its wrong its an exploit and needs a fix to stop this practice.

Mureel · May 2018

Ley wrote: »

So if I am to understand this correctly, on PS4 EU server people are spending millions every week on popular guild vendor locations simply to deny others access? Are they not using the traders to sell goods? What makes them a "dummy guild"? How is this profitable practice?

The only reason certain areas are good is because of the high end traders there. If someone messes that up- their own trader loses value.

Why people do it: bid on it with dummy guild, then after bidding close, sell trader to whoever wants, for much more than you paid, disband guild and then other guild bids and gets it immediately.
Profit.

Serjustin19 · May 2018

k_hartley4349b16_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

Serjustin19 wrote: »

k_hartley4349b16_ESO wrote: »

Serjustin19 wrote: »

What's a dummy guild?

Read the thread and you will understand thanks

Thanks and your welcome

I'm still confused, but I found an article on Reddit. One comment about Guild dummy is like a Spy in Cyrodiil. In which makes since to me now. https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/6a0ixj/how_do_you_guys_feel_about_guild_dummies/

Hi yes that's it really - GMS, officers etc of well known guilds create dummy guilds (6-15 on PS4 EU) and then bid on all top spots - this guarantees them a trader in a top spot if their legitimate bid fails. When the trader switches they then disband the dummy guild and hire with the actual guild they want in that spot for 10k. Its wrong its an exploit and needs a fix to stop this practice.

Hi, Thanks for the warning, I don't think my Guild leader knows. I'll let my guild leader know to. Totally unfair yet, it's bound to happen.

Saucy_Jack · May 2018

So wait; if the dummy guild doesn't actually get its crazy-high bid back when it disbands, how on earth would this be a lucrative practice? And if it's to secure a spot for the main guild, why not just make the crazy-high bid with the main guild's gold instead of going through the rigamarole of forming a dummy guild and transferring funds? Something doesn't add up about that.

If it's secure a spot for the main guild, then it's just easier to make the bid with the main guild. If it's to resell the trader spot for a profit, that only works if people are willing to pay more than a stupid-high bid for it, but if that were the case, other guilds would have made even stupidly higher bids and won the spot outright.

With that said, if indeed dummy guilds don't get their bids back, there's literally no reason to create a dummy guild to pull this maneuver.

Whiphid · May 2018

Theres often a few of the guilds called "[some guild name] Protector", that hardly sell any stuff.
I think 2 of them are occupying stalls in Daggerfall this week.

This practice need to stop, cause it's ruining chances for more people to have access to the general public.
But then again, what would we expect on the FUBAR PS4 EU trade market anyway...

Lissiexx · May 2018

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

So wait; if the dummy guild doesn't actually get its crazy-high bid back when it disbands, how on earth would this be a lucrative practice? And if it's to secure a spot for the main guild, why not just make the crazy-high bid with the main guild's gold instead of going through the rigamarole of forming a dummy guild and transferring funds? Something doesn't add up about that.

If it's secure a spot for the main guild, then it's just easier to make the bid with the main guild. If it's to resell the trader spot for a profit, that only works if people are willing to pay more than a stupid-high bid for it, but if that were the case, other guilds would have made even stupidly higher bids and won the spot outright.

With that said, if indeed dummy guilds don't get their bids back, there's literally no reason to create a dummy guild to pull this maneuver.

They don't bid high with dummy guilds - they just make them as back up bid an amount and if no one else has bid on that spot the dummy guild wins it - if the main has already won their legitimate bid they sell off that spot to another guild who hasn't won his bid. Does this make sense now?

Saucy_Jack · May 2018

That doesn't account for dummy guilds cropping up in high-traffic, high-bid places like Rawl.

generalmyrick · May 2018

k_hartley4349b16_ESO wrote: »

So today I learn that there is an 'initiative' going on the PS4 EU server for 6-15 dummy guilds being used in top trading areas. I knew about the dummy guild thing before and thought it was unfair but I also learn today that Zenimax are aware of this and 'refuse' to do anything about or come up with a better solution to stop it.
This practice is harmful for all new and existing guilds on the server and anyone who runs a trading guild knows this.
So a good solution is?

dont join guilds that always have a trader in the prime spots.

you're helping those guilds pay the dummy guilds to have a spot every week.

#freetrade

driosketch · May 2018

badmojo wrote: »

From what I have read on the forums these dummy guilds bid and win a trader and then disband the guild and take the trader over with their real guild. But the problem is that apparently the game refunds your bid money when you disband your guild, meaning they get a trader for free and have plenty of extra cash to outbid other guilds.

If it refunds the money when the guild disbands, that's the issue. That's what needs to be fixed.

Lissiexx · May 2018

generalmyrick wrote: »

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k_hartley4349b16_ESO wrote: »

So today I learn that there is an 'initiative' going on the PS4 EU server for 6-15 dummy guilds being used in top trading areas. I knew about the dummy guild thing before and thought it was unfair but I also learn today that Zenimax are aware of this and 'refuse' to do anything about or come up with a better solution to stop it.
This practice is harmful for all new and existing guilds on the server and anyone who runs a trading guild knows this.
So a good solution is?

dont join guilds that always have a trader in the prime spots.

you're helping those guilds pay the dummy guilds to have a spot every week.

#freetrade

That is so not true - there are genuine guilds - independent guilds who are completely opposed to this.

Guilds who don't ask for donations are a. not getting town traders or b. run by big alliances doing precisely this.

jazsper77 · May 2018

I can tell you now that 1 Guild I’m in on the PS4 NA - PURPLE GANG is 100% donation based no set $$$.
Always in Rawl and not associated with any other Guild. The GM and officers work their arses off with $$$ raising events all week .

So a capital Trader is very Possible with a Free/donation based Guild but it’s a lot of work.

jazsper77 · May 2018

But I think some players in this thread still do not understand exactly what’s going on. So I’ll try to make it easier.

1. Guilds /Players bid 2 spots main and a back up/flip.

2. If Guild wins main bid great , they then flip back up Trader for 2-3x what they paid to a Major Guild who lost there bid.

That’s it really.

End of the day they are covering there Guilds needs and making side $$$$ .

Lissiexx · May 2018

Another week of bugged out Guild Trader Notices because someone disbanded a guild again.

Please ZOS you can do something about this!