change class option?

Vapirko

purchasable as new token from crown store

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

It won't work in this game since you will have to level up all their skill trees again which might as well reroll a new one

Nah skills level fast it’s moslty the 1-50, Undaunted, lore ebooks etc, skyshards.

Vapirko

purchasable as new token from crown store

madchuska83 wrote: »

Considering the fact that it's possible to level a new toon to 50 in a matter of days, my answer is no. Granted you will still have to grind guild skill lines, but it's not terribly difficult.

Then just dont use it and everyone’s happy.

Rickhulters

no

That’s game breaking... specially for people like me who leveled all classes and worked for it.

Taleof2Cities

no

Vapirko wrote: »

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madchuska83 wrote: »

Considering the fact that it's possible to level a new toon to 50 in a matter of days, my answer is no. Granted you will still have to grind guild skill lines, but it's not terribly difficult.

Then just dont use it and everyone’s happy.

Players who put some thought into their character before playing, theorycraft, and generally hold themselves responsible for their class choice ... that’s what makes me happy.

UglyBunnyCu

My current character has become very close to me and i've done lot of progress in game, i don't want to make new one, but i also regret picking the nightblade and am now bound to that class forever? Was my very first character and i didn't understand much back then i think everyone should have some option to fix this least once. Am i really gonna have to go through all that time again? I understand why most voted no but i'm sure there can be way to make it work. If you're afraid everyone is going to go sorc or warden in end whats difference since its easy to just make new character and level up to 50 like you all say. But to me and i'm sure many others it is also the adventure you've left behind and would rather continue than start over just to have correct class you enjoy.

Iluvrien

no

48 hours after a previous thread on this same topic.

Are you actually kidding me...

NovaMarx

purchasable as new token from crown store

There are pros and cons to having class change available. But like with most of these type of things, I wouldn't be against them adding it - but they should add it to the Crown Store like they have with all the other tokens (that's only fair, unless they make the other changes available out of Crown Store as well).

But of course, the big consideration would be how to implement it. As many have stated, logically it would mean you start at level 0 with all your class skills, and would have to level them up. BUT to be fair, I don't see this leveling up of skills different or more time consuming than having/wanting to level up any other skill line that you haven't yet - be it a weapon, craft or guild skill line, or even existing class skills that you have neglected in the past but want to try out.

So yeh, if they find a way to add it then bring it on

Zorgon_The_Revenged

Do any other games sell class change tokens? Just interested.

Syncronaut

no

A) It will create a class inbalance -- everyone will switch to op class
B ) Will give Zenimax to much power and they can nerf that class and make one OP to sell you more class changes (blizzard is kinda doing this, but with racial changes every expansion)
C) Pay to win
D) I played some mmos who had class change tokens -- those games ended up dead as anyone who was playing a weak class simply quit

White wabbit

no

Wish zos would just say that this is never going to happen so that we can put these threads to bed

Septimus_Magna

no

No, class change tokens should not be implemented.

I also think that playing a different class should be far less restrictive. Leveling isnt the issue because that doesnt take too long. So what is the problem exactly?

My personal reason for not switching main is that I like to work towards harder to get achievements. When I play a different char Im basically not working on any achievements which can be annoying.

The class change problem could be solved by making achievements account wide.
Titles should only be allowed on the char that completed the achievement ofc.
Dyes and motifs are already account wide with the outfit system.

Either make all chars work on the same achievements so you can work on the achievement kill X mobs in dungeon Y on multiple chars. Or add the achievement points to the account total when you complete a specific achievement.

klowdy1

no

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Do any other games sell class change tokens? Just interested.

None I have ever seen, not even the completely P2W games, which is strange none of the P2W crowd has been in here yet. Expansions and DLC is P2W, but class change tokens aren't?

Merlin13KAGL

no

tinythinker wrote: »

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Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

#2: By changing your class, you're fundamentally changing your character entirely. The "But my achievements" crowd cannot say that they would be able to achieve the same things with the new class as they did the old.

Ignoring the huge time and cost, though, for people with high levels of achievements.

How is race change not a fundamental change, btw? I recall the same argument being used before those tokens came out.

@tinythinker race change is not nearly as significant. In most cases, it's an equivalent change to max stats and / or recovery, in some cases damage. Those things can be modified with gear, glyphs, and CP's from one build to another.

A class change offers up a completely different skill set and playstyle. Adding 10% more stamina or 3% more spell damage doesn't change the way the underlying class plays, it simply changes the effectiveness. (And yes, the same argument was used for race change, mostly because we didn't expect they $toop to offering such things. Even then, it was significantly longer to level up an alt than it is now.)

Again, the only way I would even begin to entertain this is if you had already maxed the associated class once before, as an attempt to verify you halfway know what the heck you're doing with said class. It would also have to have restrictions, perhaps a one shot deal, with no going back, ever.

If it's an achievement link that concerns you, there should simply be a an account wide achievement summary.

If someone intends to FOTM their character, because let's face it, that's what this would be for in 90%+ of the cases, then choose between your current alt's accomplishments being forever wiped away or that precious extra % effectiveness that class change would provide.

*The export/import option I suggested would allow a middle ground for this.*

The very (achievement) argument that characters should be an investment on some level is exactly the reason I say "No."

I'll even offer up another proposal. Let the option come at a loss of CP. That way it would hopefully ensure time was taken to learn the new class in the process of regaining the 100/200/300? points lost.

Would gaining new abilities on one character be worth losing effectiveness across all the rest? Because such a thing should come at a higher cost than simply crowns.

(It also favors those that can spend more $, vs those that would have to invest the actual time.)

tinythinker

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The very (achievement) argument that characters should be an investment on some level is exactly the reason I say "No."

Yet if someone values the character they are invested in why does class change matter? Other than commonly expressed sentiments about the importance of "making choices matter"? It isn't only achievements that players are invested in with their characters.

Anyway, my premise was: if there was a sufficient cost and limiting factors to make chasing fotm moot and to be sure it wasn't some super casual decision, what is the remaining arguments against character change. I was counting you in the group that at such a point would say, "OK, under sufficiently stiff conditions, I'm cool with it." And the way I am reading your reply seems to confirm that.

Grinding out 100+ CP whilst simultaneously leveling up the new class skills lines (yet keeping everything else intact) is definitely a way to discourage fotm chasers but other suggestions people have offered would work as well for that. But in the end there are still people who seem to have some moral conviction (not just a practical concern over in-game abuse/imbalance) against the concept of class-switching and feel that some punishment should be extracted -- not as a fotm deterrent but as a cost of violating some principle or key value -- or that it's just so wrong it can't be allowed under any condition.



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Separate thought/comment:

As per some other discussions/currents of conversation about what other MMOs do or don't do with class change, FFXIV doesn't have class (job) change tokens, you can simply change jobs whenever you like. Jobs are weapon-specific, so if you equip a bow you become a bard (or archer if you haven't done the bard quest) and your stats change and you need to wear gear for ranged classes that do physical damage. You can save your gear sets (weapon, armor, jewelry) as part of the native UI in your character screen, so you just click to swap gear and in addition your stats & ability bars change to a different job. If you unlock a job you have to do the process of questing, dungeon running, etc. to take it up to max level.

Want to tank? Friend whispers to ask if you can help heal something? Feel like going from spell caster to melee dps? Just click. To be clear, I am not saying that system should be imported to ESO. But being able to change classes isn't automatically an apocalypse in MMOs.

UglyBunnyCu

Syncronaut wrote: »

A) It will create a class inbalance -- everyone will switch to op class
B ) Will give Zenimax to much power and they can nerf that class and make one OP to sell you more class changes (blizzard is kinda doing this, but with racial changes every expansion)
C) Pay to win
D) I played some mmos who had class change tokens -- those games ended up dead as anyone who was playing a weak class simply quit

If there is class system in any rpg there always should be option to change class as well. If some classes are op then balance them? And the token was just suggestion. I don't understand why majority disagree with this, it is possible to balance this.

Geekgirl

purchasable as new token from crown store

I would love this. My main character/completionist is a Templar. Templars get a lot of love and respect and that's awesome.

I play a really bad Templar. It was a poor character choice that I didn't realize until too far in (I spent time exploring the various ways I could attempt to play the class). By the time I did realize, I had just beaten Molag Bal and was barely into Cadwell's Silver. At that point rerolling my main crafter/achievement holder was too painful.

I've made other characters since, of course and have since discovered that I do best with Magicka DKs.

I would love to be in a position where I want to run her again, vs. forcing myself to continue questing/exploring with her.

Class reroll would do that.

*If* she could keep all quest progression, achievements and skill points (because of completed quests/skyshards) I would be happy to class reroll her to a level 1 again and grind her back up to CP level.

I'm happy to limit it to one lifetime change per character as well.

UglyBunnyCu

Geekgirl wrote: »

I would love this. My main character/completionist is a Templar. Templars get a lot of love and respect and that's awesome.

I play a really bad Templar. It was a poor character choice that I didn't realize until too far in (I spent time exploring the various ways I could attempt to play the class). By the time I did realize, I had just beaten Molag Bal and was barely into Cadwell's Silver. At that point rerolling my main crafter/achievement holder was too painful.

I've made other characters since, of course and have since discovered that I do best with Magicka DKs.

I would love to be in a position where I want to run her again, vs. forcing myself to continue questing/exploring with her.

Class reroll would do that.

*If* she could keep all quest progression, achievements and skill points (because of completed quests/skyshards) I would be happy to class reroll her to a level 1 again and grind her back up to CP level.

I'm happy to limit it to one lifetime change per character as well.

exactly! I'm having 100% same problem as you are!

ynimma

purchasable as new token from crown store

I'm amazed how confident the "No"-sayers are on what WILL happen if there'd be class change tokens introduced - like everyone will immediately swap to play the meta or how the game will inevtiably become P2W, etc.

This level of future-telling is a much sought after skill and I would like to learn from you guys because the only thing I can say will necessarily happen if the game offers class change is that those would like to change class for some reason may consider doing it depending on the conditions.
The other thing (oh, it's already two then, sorry) is that whatever X or Y player does to their character within the game's rules will not affect your game and your characters in any ways. So you can be happy if (and only if) you let those players to be happy as well who would go for the option to change class.

Did I miss something?

idk

It is PROVEN that it is faster to level up a new character in ESO that getting a token to change classes.

So if OP is thinking this token will be added to the game anytime soon, the answer is no. Start rolling that new character.

UglyBunnyCu

idk wrote: »

It is PROVEN that it is faster to level up a new character in ESO that getting a silly token to change classes.

So if OP is thinking this token will be added to the game anytime soon, the answer is no. Start rolling that new character.

no i wont, and if you're curious why read my previous comments

klowdy1

no

ynimma wrote: »

I'm amazed how confident the "No"-sayers are on what WILL happen if there'd be class change tokens introduced - like everyone will immediately swap to play the meta or how the game will inevtiably become P2W, etc.

This level of future-telling is a much sought after skill and I would like to learn from you guys because the only thing I can say will necessarily happen if the game offers class change is that those would like to change class for some reason may consider doing it depending on the conditions.
The other thing (oh, it's already two then, sorry) is that whatever X or Y player does to their character within the game's rules will not affect your game and your characters in any ways. So you can be happy if (and only if) you let those players to be happy as well who would go for the option to change class.

Did I miss something?

I haven't seen any P2W speak, other than what I said, which was not calling class change P2W. Only that I was surprised to not see that talk in here. Admittedly, I just skimmed a few posts between reading the majority. I'm amazed you you don't believe FotM swapping would be the major use for this function. There is a reason every MMO has bots and gold/gear sellers.

Merlin13KAGL

no

tinythinker wrote: »

show previous quotes

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The very (achievement) argument that characters should be an investment on some level is exactly the reason I say "No."

Yet if someone values the character they are invested in why does class change matter? Other than commonly expressed sentiments about the importance of "making choices matter"? It isn't only achievements that players are invested in with their characters.

Anyway, my premise was: if there was a sufficient cost and limiting factors to make chasing fotm moot and to be sure it wasn't some super casual decision, what is the remaining arguments against character change. I was counting you in the group that at such a point would say, "OK, under sufficiently stiff conditions, I'm cool with it." And the way I am reading your reply seems to confirm that.

Grinding out 100+ CP whilst simultaneously leveling up the new class skills lines (yet keeping everything else intact) is definitely a way to discourage fotm chasers but other suggestions people have offered would work as well for that. But in the end there are still people who seem to have some moral conviction (not just a practical concern over in-game abuse/imbalance) against the concept of class-switching and feel that some punishment should be extracted -- not as a fotm deterrent but as a cost of violating some principle or key value -- or that it's just so wrong it can't be allowed under any condition.

@tinythinker I'll give you that. Under the right circumstances, I would be okay with it.

The problem lays in determining what the "right circumstances" are, and in this instance, I wouldn't have a lot of faith in the Devs determining what is acceptable cost and consequence. At a minimum, they would have to tread carefully.

I guess I'd want the justification, from a players' perspective, to be for reasons beyond "It was on XXXXX streamer's podcast."

To be fair, had there been an "Other" option, I would have gone that route with the explanations previously provided.

I don't want to limit people that truly have been invested in their characters. My concern would lay with those who are, nor ever will be, and the results of those 'choices' that the rest of us experience inevitably as we play with them.

There does need to be a middle ground. No one should have to render their achievement and experience null and void. No one should have to be limited in opportunity for making changes in a positive light.

I get that there are those (I would be among them) that would not take an option like this lightly. My worry is for those that would.

TL;DR; No "other" option was available in the poll. My import/export suggestion would have been my "Other" suggestion. I don't trust a lot of players not to abuse this. I don't trust the Devs to get the 'balance' (for lack of a better word) right.

Even if they could, I don't trust Marketing to keep their fingers out of it in such a way as to allow the Devs to get the balance right.

Ergo, I err on the side of caution.

I am highly invested in my characters, as well. Good, bad, or indifferent, knowing some of them may have to sit idle from patch to patch, it would never be a decision I would take lightly. I would like the players people group with to be worthy of their time and effort. At least in the current design, the odds are somewhat better that someone has taken at least some measure of time to learn the character they play.

I realize there will always be exceptions.

LadyLethalla

purchasable as new token from crown store

I would like this... so that I wouldn't have to regrind anything other than class skill and racial skill lines. ATM I am in the middle of painfully levelling up Undaunted and FG and MG and all that other BS. Which I'd really rather not do again. It's this kind of thing that stops me from buying another slot for a new character (except in the event that a new class is implemented).

Invincible

Mount training and other uber grindy aspects are what keep me from rolling new characters. It doesn't really matter what new classes there are it's just never gonna happen again for me.

idk

UglyBunnyCu wrote: »

show previous quotes

idk wrote: »

It is PROVEN that it is faster to level up a new character in ESO that getting a silly token to change classes.

So if OP is thinking this token will be added to the game anytime soon, the answer is no. Start rolling that new character.

no i wont, and if you're curious why read my previous comments

I did read the post you made just before mine that you replied to. An opinion that is clearly not accepted in the MMORPG world that any game that has a class system should have a means to change that class. That is a fallacy. in fact MMORPGs are much more likely to add more character slots as it seems to work out better than a class change mechanism.

Basically, once again, you will not be getting that class change token, or any other means to change the class of a character, any time soon.

I am not arguing with you as I really could care less. Just pointing out that odds are not on your side. You said you will not level up a new character, that is fine. Your choice, but I hope you enjoy the character you have.

As for another one of your comments, are you bound to the NB class forever. That is your choice and yours alone. You can roll another class or continue with the NB. Fortunately they have been doing well and I think they are currently doing well on the PTS.

Again, your choice and it is not likely you will have a class change option any time soon, as in years.

UglyBunnyCu

idk wrote: »

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UglyBunnyCu wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It is PROVEN that it is faster to level up a new character in ESO that getting a silly token to change classes.

So if OP is thinking this token will be added to the game anytime soon, the answer is no. Start rolling that new character.

no i wont, and if you're curious why read my previous comments

I did read the post you made just before mine that you replied to. An opinion that is clearly not accepted in the MMORPG world that any game that has a class system should have a means to change that class. That is a fallacy. in fact MMORPGs are much more likely to add more character slots as it seems to work out better than a class change mechanism.

Basically, once again, you will not be getting that class change token, or any other means to change the class of a character, any time soon.

I am not arguing with you as I really could care less. Just pointing out that odds are not on your side. You said you will not level up a new character, that is fine. Your choice, but I hope you enjoy the character you have.

As for another one of your comments, are you bound to the NB class forever. That is your choice and yours alone. You can roll another class or continue with the NB. Fortunately they have been doing well and I think they are currently doing well on the PTS.

Again, your choice and it is not likely you will have a class change option any time soon, as in years.

k

White wabbit

no

The reason I can't see this happening is , ZOS release a new class and hey presto with in a second people are running around on this new class , maxed out with zero effort

UglyBunnyCu

White wabbit wrote: »

The reason I can't see this happening is , ZOS release a new class and hey presto with in a second people are running around on this new class , maxed out with zero effort

And so what? Whats the problem? People would do it anyway with making new character, but some people don't want to make new character thus this option should exist, these points don't make any sense

White wabbit

no

UglyBunnyCu wrote: »

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White wabbit wrote: »

The reason I can't see this happening is , ZOS release a new class and hey presto with in a second people are running around on this new class , maxed out with zero effort

And so what? Whats the problem? People would do it anyway with making new character, but some people don't want to make new character thus this option should exist, these points don't make any sense

Sorry but don't you read the posts before commenting I said a new class not and old class plus sure ZOS said that this isn't something they are looking at , so why players think constantly ask for something will make it happen is beyond me

Merlin13KAGL

no

LadyLethalla wrote: »

I would like this... so that I wouldn't have to regrind anything other than class skill and racial skill lines. ATM I am in the middle of painfully levelling up Undaunted and FG and MG and all that other BS. Which I'd really rather not do again. It's this kind of thing that stops me from buying another slot for a new character (except in the event that a new class is implemented).

@LadyLethalla Those are time consuming, albeit not difficult.

One potential suggested workaround for this (skyshards, also) would be to give a starter bonus to these things that would increase the more characters you have completed them one.

So your first grind, will be, well, a grind.
Second gets a little faster, and so on.
By the time you hit #15, they should be close to done.

This could come with a disable option in settings, so those that legitimately wanted to pursue these things separately per alt could opt to do so.