Soul Assault and Radiant Destruction

xxthir13enxx

Hmm...as a...avid SA user, I can tell you the best defence against SA is to attack.... plain n simple... n yes I’m that A-hole that’s out there 1 shotting ppl with it...but I can tell you there is A lot of counterplay to it and I can generally tell the other players skill level by how they react to the SA. And if their first response is to charge towards me...I know the jig is up..I break cast n get out.

Reverb

SA is so only situationally useful, I prefer DoS on the back bar of my mag toons in pvp. I honestly don’t remember the last time I saw it on my death recap.

And a Templar using RD on you at full health is vulnerable, and possibly dumb. It will only do the damage you claim if the caster has a sigil buff and you just stand there and take it in the face for the full channel. There are many counters, but if I get beamed at full health in BG, my choice is gap close to interrupt, and just kill them.

Complaining on the forums is an option too, but it’s less effective than employing counters.

josiahva

CompM4s wrote: »

Soul Assault does not snare anymore.

Radiant destruction can be interupted by bashing

Which is absolutely worthless if you are 12m away, though I do often roll dodge and bash when they are actually in front of me...but most often they will RD while you are fighting another opponent from behind you, which severely limits your options in the real world. In Cyrodiil its rare indeed to get into a 1v1 with a templar....you and whatever group you are in either outnumber your opponents 3 to 1, or vice versa. Radiant Destruction and Soul Assault just are not as weak as you seem to think in the real world, although I do stick almost exclusively to no-CP Sotha Sil, so that may make a difference in my experience. I can see how RD would be worthless in CP campaigns where ever fight turns into a long drawn-out affair.

Drdeath20

Soul asault is a world skill available to anyone and yet only the class with the worst ultimates use it (generally). Thats very telling.

Radiant oppression is soo pathetic now its not worth slotting. There are soo many videos of players at >25% health being beamed down and outhealing it.

Like i said i dont slot either of these abilities anymore in both pvp and pve. At this point lets tripple nerf them that way using them will never cross my mind.

Ratzkifal

It's not even called Jesus Beam anymore - appalling evidence that this skill was nerfed too hard.
As for Soul Assault. Meh. It's an ultimate. Your enemy won't be able to cast it in a while if you manage to survive it.

Neoauspex

This is like one of those WW2 letters that got lost and then delivered 50 years later. Radiant is garbage, Soul Assault was nerfed last patch.

Darkmage1337

If anything, Radiant Destruction and Soul Assault should be buffed.
You cannot cast other abilities or actions at the same time or do anything else while channeling these abilities, and if you block while casting Soul Assault, then you wasted your ulti. Soul Assault is also one of few ultimate abilities that is never used in PvE, because you cannot stack damage with it. (E.G. Why ever use Soul Assault when you can use Destro Ulti and use Radiant Destruction both at the same time!) Much more dps. I think it is a developer oversight, tbh.

Drdeath20

I get that this is a thread about how beams are strong in non CP battlegeounds vs players that wear medium armor and only dodge roll as their form of defense.

Witht that being said in regular cyrodil Soul assault can be used by anybody and yet the skill is barely used.

There are many videos up prooving radiant oppression cant execute players (with Dots on them and purifying light) at less than 25% health. It has become an execute that doesnt execute.

In pve both are a net loss of DPS bcz they disrupt your rotation. Radiant oppression only starts to be even or a gain at 10%. So i have to waste a skill spot for 90% of the fight for a skill that will disrupt my rotation and will MAYBE be a gain to my dps at end stage execute

Katahdin

No CP

So no DOT damage mitigation but also no damage modifiers that increase damage with CP

I dont see how it could possibly be OP in no CP or CP pvp, especially since its damage has gotten reduced.

Inarre

brandonv516 wrote: »

Add Zaan to that and you got the triple threat.

now if only templars could soul assault WHILE jesus beaming. Then templars would be the three beam machines!

Joy_Division

josiahva wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Soul Assault does not snare anymore.

Radiant destruction can be interupted by bashing

Which is absolutely worthless if you are 12m away, though I do often roll dodge and bash when they are actually in front of me...but most often they will RD while you are fighting another opponent from behind you, which severely limits your options in the real world. In Cyrodiil its rare indeed to get into a 1v1 with a templar....you and whatever group you are in either outnumber your opponents 3 to 1, or vice versa. Radiant Destruction and Soul Assault just are not as weak as you seem to think in the real world, although I do stick almost exclusively to no-CP Sotha Sil, so that may make a difference in my experience. I can see how RD would be worthless in CP campaigns where ever fight turns into a long drawn-out affair.

Personally I wouldn't want to be associated with the OP's uniformed argument, but that's your choice.

You're still complaining about RD? I'll trade you that right now straight up for fossilize. There's zero chance a DK will take that unless they wants to impress people with a target dummy parse.

You said it yourself: "In Cyrodiil its rare indeed to get into a 1v1 with a templar". Yeah, gee, I wonder why that could possibly be the case. That people out there just whining "Whah BoL healbotz take no skillz" "RD is instant death no counterplay!" "Whah RD has been nerfed 12 times, it's still OP plz nerf I suck lolz" have completely eviscerated the viability of running out there on a templar by itself in Cyrodiil.

No CP the ability is even worse because it's too expensive, you lose out on the bonus damage because sustain is terrible, and getting interrupted pretty much drains your already empty stam pool.

Personally, I would be very hesitant to come onto these forums and admit in public that I struggle Vs anything in this game. Especially when I get Soul Assaulted and Jesus Beamed every night - every night - by Xv1 heroes and do not find these attacks particularly difficult to counter.

Lexxypwns

Joy_Division wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Soul Assault does not snare anymore.

Radiant destruction can be interupted by bashing

Which is absolutely worthless if you are 12m away, though I do often roll dodge and bash when they are actually in front of me...but most often they will RD while you are fighting another opponent from behind you, which severely limits your options in the real world. In Cyrodiil its rare indeed to get into a 1v1 with a templar....you and whatever group you are in either outnumber your opponents 3 to 1, or vice versa. Radiant Destruction and Soul Assault just are not as weak as you seem to think in the real world, although I do stick almost exclusively to no-CP Sotha Sil, so that may make a difference in my experience. I can see how RD would be worthless in CP campaigns where ever fight turns into a long drawn-out affair.

Personally I wouldn't want to be associated with the OP's uniformed argument, but that's your choice.

You're still complaining about RD? I'll trade you that right now straight up for fossilize. There's zero chance a DK will take that unless they wants to impress people with a target dummy parse.

You said it yourself: "In Cyrodiil its rare indeed to get into a 1v1 with a templar". Yeah, gee, I wonder why that could possibly be the case. That people out there just whining "Whah BoL healbotz take no skillz" "RD is instant death no counterplay!" "Whah RD has been nerfed 12 times, it's still OP plz nerf I suck lolz" have completely eviscerated the viability of running out there on a templar by itself in Cyrodiil.

No CP the ability is even worse because it's too expensive, you lose out on the bonus damage because sustain is terrible, and getting interrupted pretty much drains your already empty stam pool.

Personally, I would be very hesitant to come onto these forums and admit in public that I struggle Vs anything in this game. Especially when I get Soul Assaulted and Jesus Beamed every night - every night - by Xv1 heroes and do not find these attacks particularly difficult to counter.

Soul Assault can be vicious when you’re outnumbered and it’s timed right. But if the people you’re trying to 1vX are coordinating then they’re probably not viable 1vX targets.

Radiant is literally not worth a bar slot

Amdar_Godkiller

Royaji wrote: »

It's useless against anything with a damage shield or anything that can block. And it's very easy to outheal since it's a 4 seconds channel.

.

The point is, it's impossible to mitigate it with some classes in medium armor, which is currently underperforming in PVP to such an extent that it's not even viable for the most part with certain classes.

Put another way, if you think soul assault is fine as is, then you should also be in favor of


1. Massively buffing shield breaker because it is effectively the MA trump card over LA in the same way that Soul Assault is an LA trump over MA, however the 2K damage from SB is much weaker than Soul Assault, therefore it needs a 50%-75% buff to keep the two "totally fair" un-counterable build options in line with one another. Any vote in favor of Soul Assault is also a vote for buffing the Sorc aBuser set. Obviously I'm being facetious, but this illustrates why Soul Assault IS IMBALANCED and needs to be changed.




2. 2% passive dodge chance for each piece of medium armor worn in exchange for the reduced sneak cost passive, which useless as sneak cost is already cheaper than any other aspect of the game. This would literally only give MA about 6%-11% more actual mitigation due to diminishing returns on different sources of mitigation. I would settle for 1% increased dodge chance to put shuffle back in line with the 20% it once provided. Alternatively, you could just add 5% dodge chance to both major and minor evasion.


Evasion/dodge chance only seems OP to some Mag users because it once was much stronger, and because the most fully viable medium armor class, Nightblades, can combine it with cloak and roll dodge to seemingly become unhittable if the three things are timed perfectly. The issues are created much more as a result of dodge roll mechanics and cloak mechanics though, than they are because of dodge chance from evasion, which isn't really that special or impactful compared to blocking (70% mitigation if you can afford it), or damage shields which:

a. double your HP effectively, and

b. fully mitigates crits. This is stronger at base crit damage modifier than major evasion in terms of mitigation and gets stronger against enemies with high crit modifier. At base modifier, it's worth 33% mitigation x attacker's crit chance. most builds in pvp sit at around 40% or so ( and would probably be higher if not for damage shields being uncrittable), which makes the mitigation from just the crits equal to 13%-14% on average for non templar non nightblade attackers with no cp in precise strikes or elfborn. This mitigation is additive unlike dodge chance because it is factored before resistance and other mitigating sources. It's equivalent to 8800 physical and spell resistance. That's more than you'd get from 2 pieces of chudan,
5 pieces of armor master, 5 pieces of fortified brass, etc. At best, a glass cannon medium armor user with no cp in anything mitigation related would get 12.5% mitigation from major evasion assuming his resistances are lower than 11300. Once again, we aren't even adding the mitigation provided by the bonus HP a damage shield gets you, which is 50%-90% increase to the amount of damage you can take.

With regard to cloak, this could and should be corrected by preventing cloak from causing attacks to miss and There is no logical explanation for why a person who becomes invisible, suddenly also becomes immune to single target attacks. If I punch the location where a man's face is, my fist does not go through it just because he disappears from my view. Cloak needs to have no effect on incoming damage. Period.

Also, by decreasing the base cost of dodge roll while increasing the cool-down penalty so all builds are at least capable of a single dodge roll in the heat of battle without being forced to walk throughout combat and completely avoid blocking.

Really, Break free, dodge roll, and block all need base cost reductions if we're being honest. We just need to consolidate and eliminate certain exploitable means of cost reduction. It sucks that a handful of builds that are unbalanced now cause all of us to have limited use of basic combat functions. The solution should never have been to nerf mechanics, when all that was necessary was cost reduction caps and/or a system that only factors in the highest source of cost reduction, instead of stacking all of them.

Light armor shouldn't be able to dodge roll as well as MA, but it should be able to do it much more reliably and cost-efficiently than it does (and logically, it should do it better than a guy wearing chainmail as well; I don't recall ever hearing of a band of knights tumbling there way to victory in battle, though it would be absurdly amusing spectacle to be sure).



3. A medium armor passive that grants 4% chance per piece of MA to purge all disabling effects, DOTs, and debuffs whenever you roll dodge more than once within its 4 second cooldown (this is simply logical balance, since it's high cost to dodge roll twice within its cooldown, because it requires rng, but also because it provides MA a means of dealing with defiles/dots, since NONE exists for non-templars aside from a very high cost Support skill). The need for this could be eliminated however with a monster set that gives a 1 pc bonus that is stam friendly and a 2 pc bonus that provides the wearer with a purge proc.

Damage shields double your mitigation in most instances especially considering their stupidly OP ability to cancel all crit damage, heavy armor and S&B more than doubles mitigation and allows easy access to resistance cap.

Medium armor OTOH provides 5% more resistance than Light armor and allows you to use a skill that gives you 15% dodge chance. It's effectively less than 15% mitigation after factoring the diminishing returns of CP and resistance based mitigation.

With CP HA users can reduce block cost (HA mitigation and makes medium armor sustain passives unnecessary) and receive greater benefit from roll dodge cost reduction as well. Light armor users can enhance damage shield strength (LA mitigation buffed multiplicatively with 5 other CP stars!). But for medium armor users, there is nothing but dodge roll cost reduction and diminishing returns from the resistance buffs and most cost reduction CP stars. It is stupid to invest in dodge roll as a MA user because you receive less total cost reduction from it than both HA and LA users (LOL!), due to medium armor passives.

I suggest that maybe evasion needs the equivalent of befoul in the red CP constellation: a CP star that increases the amount of dodge chance provided by evasion buffs. This is what medium armor focus should be.

Otherwise, as CP increases, Mag mitigation will continue to increase rapidly and from many sources will do so multiplicative with one another, while medium armor's mitigation will only increase by an exponentially diminishing margin.




So this world where Soul Assault is perfectly balanced and fine, is absolute nonsense. The only argument in favor of it being balanced presupposes that medium armor, must be unable to mitigate yet ANOTHER source of damage.

HA and LA can mitigate Soul Assault to a much greater degree, as has already been mentioned, so the only reason to slot it would be to kill specifically medium armor wearers, which is a ridiculous reason to slot a skill, because medium armor users are already the easiest to kill. Ergo, in order to argue in favor of Soul Assault's current balance, you must acknowledge and support how poorly medium armor is balanced.


Compare that to shield breaker, which was created because there are so few sources of damage that catastrophically affect light armor mitigation.

The issue is that there are already enough hard counters against MA, while there are so few means of attacking LA and HA users that entirely lack counterplay. The last thing we need is another ULTIMATE that insta-kills MA users. Eye of the Storm already exists for this unbalanced non-competitive purpose.

If you want it to remain this strong against MA, then lets push for a morph that deals oblivion damage and prevents the target from casting a damage shield during the channel, and the other morph deals bleed damage over time after the channel ends, and triples the cost of block. Then it's still OP, but at least balanced.

Minno

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

It's useless against anything with a damage shield or anything that can block. And it's very easy to outheal since it's a 4 seconds channel.

.

The point is, it's impossible to mitigate it with some classes in medium armor, which is currently underperforming in PVP to such an extent that it's not even viable for the most part with certain classes.

Put another way, if you think soul assault is fine as is, then you should also be in favor of


1. Massively buffing shield breaker because it is effectively the MA trump card over LA in the same way that Soul Assault is an LA trump over MA, however the 2K damage from SB is much weaker than Soul Assault, therefore it needs a 50%-75% buff to keep the two "totally fair" un-counterable build options in line with one another. Any vote in favor of Soul Assault is also a vote for buffing the Sorc aBuser set. Obviously I'm being facetious, but this illustrates why Soul Assault IS IMBALANCED and needs to be changed.




2. 2% passive dodge chance for each piece of medium armor worn in exchange for the reduced sneak cost passive, which useless as sneak cost is already cheaper than any other aspect of the game. This would literally only give MA about 6%-11% more actual mitigation due to diminishing returns on different sources of mitigation. I would settle for 1% increased dodge chance to put shuffle back in line with the 20% it once provided. Alternatively, you could just add 5% dodge chance to both major and minor evasion.


Evasion/dodge chance only seems OP to some Mag users because it once was much stronger, and because the most fully viable medium armor class, Nightblades, can combine it with cloak and roll dodge to seemingly become unhittable if the three things are timed perfectly. The issues are created much more as a result of dodge roll mechanics and cloak mechanics though, than they are because of dodge chance from evasion, which isn't really that special or impactful compared to blocking (70% mitigation if you can afford it), or damage shields which:

a. double your HP effectively, and

b. fully mitigates crits. This is stronger at base crit damage modifier than major evasion in terms of mitigation and gets stronger against enemies with high crit modifier. At base modifier, it's worth 33% mitigation x attacker's crit chance. most builds in pvp sit at around 40% or so ( and would probably be higher if not for damage shields being uncrittable), which makes the mitigation from just the crits equal to 13%-14% on average for non templar non nightblade attackers with no cp in precise strikes or elfborn. This mitigation is additive unlike dodge chance because it is factored before resistance and other mitigating sources. It's equivalent to 8800 physical and spell resistance. That's more than you'd get from 2 pieces of chudan,
5 pieces of armor master, 5 pieces of fortified brass, etc. At best, a glass cannon medium armor user with no cp in anything mitigation related would get 12.5% mitigation from major evasion assuming his resistances are lower than 11300. Once again, we aren't even adding the mitigation provided by the bonus HP a damage shield gets you, which is 50%-90% increase to the amount of damage you can take.

With regard to cloak, this could and should be corrected by preventing cloak from causing attacks to miss and There is no logical explanation for why a person who becomes invisible, suddenly also becomes immune to single target attacks. If I punch the location where a man's face is, my fist does not go through it just because he disappears from my view. Cloak needs to have no effect on incoming damage. Period.

Also, by decreasing the base cost of dodge roll while increasing the cool-down penalty so all builds are at least capable of a single dodge roll in the heat of battle without being forced to walk throughout combat and completely avoid blocking.

Really, Break free, dodge roll, and block all need base cost reductions if we're being honest. We just need to consolidate and eliminate certain exploitable means of cost reduction. It sucks that a handful of builds that are unbalanced now cause all of us to have limited use of basic combat functions. The solution should never have been to nerf mechanics, when all that was necessary was cost reduction caps and/or a system that only factors in the highest source of cost reduction, instead of stacking all of them.

Light armor shouldn't be able to dodge roll as well as MA, but it should be able to do it much more reliably and cost-efficiently than it does (and logically, it should do it better than a guy wearing chainmail as well; I don't recall ever hearing of a band of knights tumbling there way to victory in battle, though it would be absurdly amusing spectacle to be sure).



3. A medium armor passive that grants 4% chance per piece of MA to purge all disabling effects, DOTs, and debuffs whenever you roll dodge more than once within its 4 second cooldown (this is simply logical balance, since it's high cost to dodge roll twice within its cooldown, because it requires rng, but also because it provides MA a means of dealing with defiles/dots, since NONE exists for non-templars aside from a very high cost Support skill). The need for this could be eliminated however with a monster set that gives a 1 pc bonus that is stam friendly and a 2 pc bonus that provides the wearer with a purge proc.

Damage shields double your mitigation in most instances especially considering their stupidly OP ability to cancel all crit damage, heavy armor and S&B more than doubles mitigation and allows easy access to resistance cap.

Medium armor OTOH provides 5% more resistance than Light armor and allows you to use a skill that gives you 15% dodge chance. It's effectively less than 15% mitigation after factoring the diminishing returns of CP and resistance based mitigation.

With CP HA users can reduce block cost (HA mitigation and makes medium armor sustain passives unnecessary) and receive greater benefit from roll dodge cost reduction as well. Light armor users can enhance damage shield strength (LA mitigation buffed multiplicatively with 5 other CP stars!). But for medium armor users, there is nothing but dodge roll cost reduction and diminishing returns from the resistance buffs and most cost reduction CP stars. It is stupid to invest in dodge roll as a MA user because you receive less total cost reduction from it than both HA and LA users (LOL!), due to medium armor passives.

I suggest that maybe evasion needs the equivalent of befoul in the red CP constellation: a CP star that increases the amount of dodge chance provided by evasion buffs. This is what medium armor focus should be.

Otherwise, as CP increases, Mag mitigation will continue to increase rapidly and from many sources will do so multiplicative with one another, while medium armor's mitigation will only increase by an exponentially diminishing margin.




So this world where Soul Assault is perfectly balanced and fine, is absolute nonsense. The only argument in favor of it being balanced presupposes that medium armor, must be unable to mitigate yet ANOTHER source of damage.

HA and LA can mitigate Soul Assault to a much greater degree, as has already been mentioned, so the only reason to slot it would be to kill specifically medium armor wearers, which is a ridiculous reason to slot a skill, because medium armor users are already the easiest to kill. Ergo, in order to argue in favor of Soul Assault's current balance, you must acknowledge and support how poorly medium armor is balanced.


Compare that to shield breaker, which was created because there are so few sources of damage that catastrophically affect light armor mitigation.

The issue is that there are already enough hard counters against MA, while there are so few means of attacking LA and HA users that entirely lack counterplay. The last thing we need is another ULTIMATE that insta-kills MA users. Eye of the Storm already exists for this unbalanced non-competitive purpose.

If you want it to remain this strong against MA, then lets push for a morph that deals oblivion damage and prevents the target from casting a damage shield during the channel, and the other morph deals bleed damage over time after the channel ends, and triples the cost of block. Then it's still OP, but at least balanced.

Light armor should dodge roll the most; you have no armor weight

Amdar_Godkiller

Minno wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

It's useless against anything with a damage shield or anything that can block. And it's very easy to outheal since it's a 4 seconds channel.

.

The point is, it's impossible to mitigate it with some classes in medium armor, which is currently underperforming in PVP to such an extent that it's not even viable for the most part with certain classes.

Put another way, if you think soul assault is fine as is, then you should also be in favor of


1. Massively buffing shield breaker because it is effectively the MA trump card over LA in the same way that Soul Assault is an LA trump over MA, however the 2K damage from SB is much weaker than Soul Assault, therefore it needs a 50%-75% buff to keep the two "totally fair" un-counterable build options in line with one another. Any vote in favor of Soul Assault is also a vote for buffing the Sorc aBuser set. Obviously I'm being facetious, but this illustrates why Soul Assault IS IMBALANCED and needs to be changed.




2. 2% passive dodge chance for each piece of medium armor worn in exchange for the reduced sneak cost passive, which useless as sneak cost is already cheaper than any other aspect of the game. This would literally only give MA about 6%-11% more actual mitigation due to diminishing returns on different sources of mitigation. I would settle for 1% increased dodge chance to put shuffle back in line with the 20% it once provided. Alternatively, you could just add 5% dodge chance to both major and minor evasion.


Evasion/dodge chance only seems OP to some Mag users because it once was much stronger, and because the most fully viable medium armor class, Nightblades, can combine it with cloak and roll dodge to seemingly become unhittable if the three things are timed perfectly. The issues are created much more as a result of dodge roll mechanics and cloak mechanics though, than they are because of dodge chance from evasion, which isn't really that special or impactful compared to blocking (70% mitigation if you can afford it), or damage shields which:

a. double your HP effectively, and

b. fully mitigates crits. This is stronger at base crit damage modifier than major evasion in terms of mitigation and gets stronger against enemies with high crit modifier. At base modifier, it's worth 33% mitigation x attacker's crit chance. most builds in pvp sit at around 40% or so ( and would probably be higher if not for damage shields being uncrittable), which makes the mitigation from just the crits equal to 13%-14% on average for non templar non nightblade attackers with no cp in precise strikes or elfborn. This mitigation is additive unlike dodge chance because it is factored before resistance and other mitigating sources. It's equivalent to 8800 physical and spell resistance. That's more than you'd get from 2 pieces of chudan,
5 pieces of armor master, 5 pieces of fortified brass, etc. At best, a glass cannon medium armor user with no cp in anything mitigation related would get 12.5% mitigation from major evasion assuming his resistances are lower than 11300. Once again, we aren't even adding the mitigation provided by the bonus HP a damage shield gets you, which is 50%-90% increase to the amount of damage you can take.

With regard to cloak, this could and should be corrected by preventing cloak from causing attacks to miss and There is no logical explanation for why a person who becomes invisible, suddenly also becomes immune to single target attacks. If I punch the location where a man's face is, my fist does not go through it just because he disappears from my view. Cloak needs to have no effect on incoming damage. Period.

Also, by decreasing the base cost of dodge roll while increasing the cool-down penalty so all builds are at least capable of a single dodge roll in the heat of battle without being forced to walk throughout combat and completely avoid blocking.

Really, Break free, dodge roll, and block all need base cost reductions if we're being honest. We just need to consolidate and eliminate certain exploitable means of cost reduction. It sucks that a handful of builds that are unbalanced now cause all of us to have limited use of basic combat functions. The solution should never have been to nerf mechanics, when all that was necessary was cost reduction caps and/or a system that only factors in the highest source of cost reduction, instead of stacking all of them.

Light armor shouldn't be able to dodge roll as well as MA, but it should be able to do it much more reliably and cost-efficiently than it does (and logically, it should do it better than a guy wearing chainmail as well; I don't recall ever hearing of a band of knights tumbling there way to victory in battle, though it would be absurdly amusing spectacle to be sure).



3. A medium armor passive that grants 4% chance per piece of MA to purge all disabling effects, DOTs, and debuffs whenever you roll dodge more than once within its 4 second cooldown (this is simply logical balance, since it's high cost to dodge roll twice within its cooldown, because it requires rng, but also because it provides MA a means of dealing with defiles/dots, since NONE exists for non-templars aside from a very high cost Support skill). The need for this could be eliminated however with a monster set that gives a 1 pc bonus that is stam friendly and a 2 pc bonus that provides the wearer with a purge proc.

Damage shields double your mitigation in most instances especially considering their stupidly OP ability to cancel all crit damage, heavy armor and S&B more than doubles mitigation and allows easy access to resistance cap.

Medium armor OTOH provides 5% more resistance than Light armor and allows you to use a skill that gives you 15% dodge chance. It's effectively less than 15% mitigation after factoring the diminishing returns of CP and resistance based mitigation.

With CP HA users can reduce block cost (HA mitigation and makes medium armor sustain passives unnecessary) and receive greater benefit from roll dodge cost reduction as well. Light armor users can enhance damage shield strength (LA mitigation buffed multiplicatively with 5 other CP stars!). But for medium armor users, there is nothing but dodge roll cost reduction and diminishing returns from the resistance buffs and most cost reduction CP stars. It is stupid to invest in dodge roll as a MA user because you receive less total cost reduction from it than both HA and LA users (LOL!), due to medium armor passives.

I suggest that maybe evasion needs the equivalent of befoul in the red CP constellation: a CP star that increases the amount of dodge chance provided by evasion buffs. This is what medium armor focus should be.

Otherwise, as CP increases, Mag mitigation will continue to increase rapidly and from many sources will do so multiplicative with one another, while medium armor's mitigation will only increase by an exponentially diminishing margin.




So this world where Soul Assault is perfectly balanced and fine, is absolute nonsense. The only argument in favor of it being balanced presupposes that medium armor, must be unable to mitigate yet ANOTHER source of damage.

HA and LA can mitigate Soul Assault to a much greater degree, as has already been mentioned, so the only reason to slot it would be to kill specifically medium armor wearers, which is a ridiculous reason to slot a skill, because medium armor users are already the easiest to kill. Ergo, in order to argue in favor of Soul Assault's current balance, you must acknowledge and support how poorly medium armor is balanced.


Compare that to shield breaker, which was created because there are so few sources of damage that catastrophically affect light armor mitigation.

The issue is that there are already enough hard counters against MA, while there are so few means of attacking LA and HA users that entirely lack counterplay. The last thing we need is another ULTIMATE that insta-kills MA users. Eye of the Storm already exists for this unbalanced non-competitive purpose.

If you want it to remain this strong against MA, then lets push for a morph that deals oblivion damage and prevents the target from casting a damage shield during the channel, and the other morph deals bleed damage over time after the channel ends, and triples the cost of block. Then it's still OP, but at least balanced.

Light armor should dodge roll the most; you have no armor weight

Yeah, I could entertain that kind of rational, logical approach to combat mechanics. Of course, we'd also have to acknowledge that a jerkin would actually not be helpful whatsoever when taking a battleaxe to the solar plexus, and that shock damage might be quite disastrous for some metallic heavy armor builds.

ShadowMonarch

Classic case of inexperienced player crying about something he doesn't fully understand.

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

It's useless against anything with a damage shield or anything that can block. And it's very easy to outheal since it's a 4 seconds channel.

.

The point is, it's impossible to mitigate it with some classes in medium armor, which is currently underperforming in PVP to such an extent that it's not even viable for the most part with certain classes.

Put another way, if you think soul assault is fine as is, then you should also be in favor of


1. Massively buffing shield breaker because it is effectively the MA trump card over LA in the same way that Soul Assault is an LA trump over MA, however the 2K damage from SB is much weaker than Soul Assault, therefore it needs a 50%-75% buff to keep the two "totally fair" un-counterable build options in line with one another. Any vote in favor of Soul Assault is also a vote for buffing the Sorc aBuser set. Obviously I'm being facetious, but this illustrates why Soul Assault IS IMBALANCED and needs to be changed.




2. 2% passive dodge chance for each piece of medium armor worn in exchange for the reduced sneak cost passive, which useless as sneak cost is already cheaper than any other aspect of the game. This would literally only give MA about 6%-11% more actual mitigation due to diminishing returns on different sources of mitigation. I would settle for 1% increased dodge chance to put shuffle back in line with the 20% it once provided. Alternatively, you could just add 5% dodge chance to both major and minor evasion.


Evasion/dodge chance only seems OP to some Mag users because it once was much stronger, and because the most fully viable medium armor class, Nightblades, can combine it with cloak and roll dodge to seemingly become unhittable if the three things are timed perfectly. The issues are created much more as a result of dodge roll mechanics and cloak mechanics though, than they are because of dodge chance from evasion, which isn't really that special or impactful compared to blocking (70% mitigation if you can afford it), or damage shields which:

a. double your HP effectively, and

b. fully mitigates crits. This is stronger at base crit damage modifier than major evasion in terms of mitigation and gets stronger against enemies with high crit modifier. At base modifier, it's worth 33% mitigation x attacker's crit chance. most builds in pvp sit at around 40% or so ( and would probably be higher if not for damage shields being uncrittable), which makes the mitigation from just the crits equal to 13%-14% on average for non templar non nightblade attackers with no cp in precise strikes or elfborn. This mitigation is additive unlike dodge chance because it is factored before resistance and other mitigating sources. It's equivalent to 8800 physical and spell resistance. That's more than you'd get from 2 pieces of chudan,
5 pieces of armor master, 5 pieces of fortified brass, etc. At best, a glass cannon medium armor user with no cp in anything mitigation related would get 12.5% mitigation from major evasion assuming his resistances are lower than 11300. Once again, we aren't even adding the mitigation provided by the bonus HP a damage shield gets you, which is 50%-90% increase to the amount of damage you can take.

With regard to cloak, this could and should be corrected by preventing cloak from causing attacks to miss and There is no logical explanation for why a person who becomes invisible, suddenly also becomes immune to single target attacks. If I punch the location where a man's face is, my fist does not go through it just because he disappears from my view. Cloak needs to have no effect on incoming damage. Period.

Also, by decreasing the base cost of dodge roll while increasing the cool-down penalty so all builds are at least capable of a single dodge roll in the heat of battle without being forced to walk throughout combat and completely avoid blocking.

Really, Break free, dodge roll, and block all need base cost reductions if we're being honest. We just need to consolidate and eliminate certain exploitable means of cost reduction. It sucks that a handful of builds that are unbalanced now cause all of us to have limited use of basic combat functions. The solution should never have been to nerf mechanics, when all that was necessary was cost reduction caps and/or a system that only factors in the highest source of cost reduction, instead of stacking all of them.

Light armor shouldn't be able to dodge roll as well as MA, but it should be able to do it much more reliably and cost-efficiently than it does (and logically, it should do it better than a guy wearing chainmail as well; I don't recall ever hearing of a band of knights tumbling there way to victory in battle, though it would be absurdly amusing spectacle to be sure).



3. A medium armor passive that grants 4% chance per piece of MA to purge all disabling effects, DOTs, and debuffs whenever you roll dodge more than once within its 4 second cooldown (this is simply logical balance, since it's high cost to dodge roll twice within its cooldown, because it requires rng, but also because it provides MA a means of dealing with defiles/dots, since NONE exists for non-templars aside from a very high cost Support skill). The need for this could be eliminated however with a monster set that gives a 1 pc bonus that is stam friendly and a 2 pc bonus that provides the wearer with a purge proc.

Damage shields double your mitigation in most instances especially considering their stupidly OP ability to cancel all crit damage, heavy armor and S&B more than doubles mitigation and allows easy access to resistance cap.

Medium armor OTOH provides 5% more resistance than Light armor and allows you to use a skill that gives you 15% dodge chance. It's effectively less than 15% mitigation after factoring the diminishing returns of CP and resistance based mitigation.

With CP HA users can reduce block cost (HA mitigation and makes medium armor sustain passives unnecessary) and receive greater benefit from roll dodge cost reduction as well. Light armor users can enhance damage shield strength (LA mitigation buffed multiplicatively with 5 other CP stars!). But for medium armor users, there is nothing but dodge roll cost reduction and diminishing returns from the resistance buffs and most cost reduction CP stars. It is stupid to invest in dodge roll as a MA user because you receive less total cost reduction from it than both HA and LA users (LOL!), due to medium armor passives.

I suggest that maybe evasion needs the equivalent of befoul in the red CP constellation: a CP star that increases the amount of dodge chance provided by evasion buffs. This is what medium armor focus should be.

Otherwise, as CP increases, Mag mitigation will continue to increase rapidly and from many sources will do so multiplicative with one another, while medium armor's mitigation will only increase by an exponentially diminishing margin.




So this world where Soul Assault is perfectly balanced and fine, is absolute nonsense. The only argument in favor of it being balanced presupposes that medium armor, must be unable to mitigate yet ANOTHER source of damage.

HA and LA can mitigate Soul Assault to a much greater degree, as has already been mentioned, so the only reason to slot it would be to kill specifically medium armor wearers, which is a ridiculous reason to slot a skill, because medium armor users are already the easiest to kill. Ergo, in order to argue in favor of Soul Assault's current balance, you must acknowledge and support how poorly medium armor is balanced.


Compare that to shield breaker, which was created because there are so few sources of damage that catastrophically affect light armor mitigation.

The issue is that there are already enough hard counters against MA, while there are so few means of attacking LA and HA users that entirely lack counterplay. The last thing we need is another ULTIMATE that insta-kills MA users. Eye of the Storm already exists for this unbalanced non-competitive purpose.

If you want it to remain this strong against MA, then lets push for a morph that deals oblivion damage and prevents the target from casting a damage shield during the channel, and the other morph deals bleed damage over time after the channel ends, and triples the cost of block. Then it's still OP, but at least balanced.

Moronic idea.

Stop crying you need a buff and get better at the game, nothing is wrong with the play style its the player that hasn't learn how to play it yet.

utterly moronic.

Minno

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

It's useless against anything with a damage shield or anything that can block. And it's very easy to outheal since it's a 4 seconds channel.

.

The point is, it's impossible to mitigate it with some classes in medium armor, which is currently underperforming in PVP to such an extent that it's not even viable for the most part with certain classes.

Put another way, if you think soul assault is fine as is, then you should also be in favor of


1. Massively buffing shield breaker because it is effectively the MA trump card over LA in the same way that Soul Assault is an LA trump over MA, however the 2K damage from SB is much weaker than Soul Assault, therefore it needs a 50%-75% buff to keep the two "totally fair" un-counterable build options in line with one another. Any vote in favor of Soul Assault is also a vote for buffing the Sorc aBuser set. Obviously I'm being facetious, but this illustrates why Soul Assault IS IMBALANCED and needs to be changed.




2. 2% passive dodge chance for each piece of medium armor worn in exchange for the reduced sneak cost passive, which useless as sneak cost is already cheaper than any other aspect of the game. This would literally only give MA about 6%-11% more actual mitigation due to diminishing returns on different sources of mitigation. I would settle for 1% increased dodge chance to put shuffle back in line with the 20% it once provided. Alternatively, you could just add 5% dodge chance to both major and minor evasion.


Evasion/dodge chance only seems OP to some Mag users because it once was much stronger, and because the most fully viable medium armor class, Nightblades, can combine it with cloak and roll dodge to seemingly become unhittable if the three things are timed perfectly. The issues are created much more as a result of dodge roll mechanics and cloak mechanics though, than they are because of dodge chance from evasion, which isn't really that special or impactful compared to blocking (70% mitigation if you can afford it), or damage shields which:

a. double your HP effectively, and

b. fully mitigates crits. This is stronger at base crit damage modifier than major evasion in terms of mitigation and gets stronger against enemies with high crit modifier. At base modifier, it's worth 33% mitigation x attacker's crit chance. most builds in pvp sit at around 40% or so ( and would probably be higher if not for damage shields being uncrittable), which makes the mitigation from just the crits equal to 13%-14% on average for non templar non nightblade attackers with no cp in precise strikes or elfborn. This mitigation is additive unlike dodge chance because it is factored before resistance and other mitigating sources. It's equivalent to 8800 physical and spell resistance. That's more than you'd get from 2 pieces of chudan,
5 pieces of armor master, 5 pieces of fortified brass, etc. At best, a glass cannon medium armor user with no cp in anything mitigation related would get 12.5% mitigation from major evasion assuming his resistances are lower than 11300. Once again, we aren't even adding the mitigation provided by the bonus HP a damage shield gets you, which is 50%-90% increase to the amount of damage you can take.

With regard to cloak, this could and should be corrected by preventing cloak from causing attacks to miss and There is no logical explanation for why a person who becomes invisible, suddenly also becomes immune to single target attacks. If I punch the location where a man's face is, my fist does not go through it just because he disappears from my view. Cloak needs to have no effect on incoming damage. Period.

Also, by decreasing the base cost of dodge roll while increasing the cool-down penalty so all builds are at least capable of a single dodge roll in the heat of battle without being forced to walk throughout combat and completely avoid blocking.

Really, Break free, dodge roll, and block all need base cost reductions if we're being honest. We just need to consolidate and eliminate certain exploitable means of cost reduction. It sucks that a handful of builds that are unbalanced now cause all of us to have limited use of basic combat functions. The solution should never have been to nerf mechanics, when all that was necessary was cost reduction caps and/or a system that only factors in the highest source of cost reduction, instead of stacking all of them.

Light armor shouldn't be able to dodge roll as well as MA, but it should be able to do it much more reliably and cost-efficiently than it does (and logically, it should do it better than a guy wearing chainmail as well; I don't recall ever hearing of a band of knights tumbling there way to victory in battle, though it would be absurdly amusing spectacle to be sure).



3. A medium armor passive that grants 4% chance per piece of MA to purge all disabling effects, DOTs, and debuffs whenever you roll dodge more than once within its 4 second cooldown (this is simply logical balance, since it's high cost to dodge roll twice within its cooldown, because it requires rng, but also because it provides MA a means of dealing with defiles/dots, since NONE exists for non-templars aside from a very high cost Support skill). The need for this could be eliminated however with a monster set that gives a 1 pc bonus that is stam friendly and a 2 pc bonus that provides the wearer with a purge proc.

Damage shields double your mitigation in most instances especially considering their stupidly OP ability to cancel all crit damage, heavy armor and S&B more than doubles mitigation and allows easy access to resistance cap.

Medium armor OTOH provides 5% more resistance than Light armor and allows you to use a skill that gives you 15% dodge chance. It's effectively less than 15% mitigation after factoring the diminishing returns of CP and resistance based mitigation.

With CP HA users can reduce block cost (HA mitigation and makes medium armor sustain passives unnecessary) and receive greater benefit from roll dodge cost reduction as well. Light armor users can enhance damage shield strength (LA mitigation buffed multiplicatively with 5 other CP stars!). But for medium armor users, there is nothing but dodge roll cost reduction and diminishing returns from the resistance buffs and most cost reduction CP stars. It is stupid to invest in dodge roll as a MA user because you receive less total cost reduction from it than both HA and LA users (LOL!), due to medium armor passives.

I suggest that maybe evasion needs the equivalent of befoul in the red CP constellation: a CP star that increases the amount of dodge chance provided by evasion buffs. This is what medium armor focus should be.

Otherwise, as CP increases, Mag mitigation will continue to increase rapidly and from many sources will do so multiplicative with one another, while medium armor's mitigation will only increase by an exponentially diminishing margin.




So this world where Soul Assault is perfectly balanced and fine, is absolute nonsense. The only argument in favor of it being balanced presupposes that medium armor, must be unable to mitigate yet ANOTHER source of damage.

HA and LA can mitigate Soul Assault to a much greater degree, as has already been mentioned, so the only reason to slot it would be to kill specifically medium armor wearers, which is a ridiculous reason to slot a skill, because medium armor users are already the easiest to kill. Ergo, in order to argue in favor of Soul Assault's current balance, you must acknowledge and support how poorly medium armor is balanced.


Compare that to shield breaker, which was created because there are so few sources of damage that catastrophically affect light armor mitigation.

The issue is that there are already enough hard counters against MA, while there are so few means of attacking LA and HA users that entirely lack counterplay. The last thing we need is another ULTIMATE that insta-kills MA users. Eye of the Storm already exists for this unbalanced non-competitive purpose.

If you want it to remain this strong against MA, then lets push for a morph that deals oblivion damage and prevents the target from casting a damage shield during the channel, and the other morph deals bleed damage over time after the channel ends, and triples the cost of block. Then it's still OP, but at least balanced.

Light armor should dodge roll the most; you have no armor weight

Yeah, I could entertain that kind of rational, logical approach to combat mechanics. Of course, we'd also have to acknowledge that a jerkin would actually not be helpful whatsoever when taking a battleaxe to the solar plexus, and that shock damage might be quite disastrous for some metallic heavy armor builds.

But I think MA's weakness isn't the DMG mitigation. It's the fact they have less penetration and crit than light armor, and thus have to find it elsewhere. Heavy armor is in the same boat as medium armor but can at least find DMG sets to compensate.

I think medium armor should have increased penetration with a small crit chance passive, shuffle should give crit DMG resists to mimic the shield LA gets. And then light armor can get dodge roll reduction (because it's lighter than all the rest) . Just so mechanically they function as superior DMG dealing armors with emphasis on reactive gameplay, and heavy armor is still preferred armor for taking pure hits.

You can balance the daggers/mace to compensate for the penetration/crit chance gained from medium. Just so it punishes heavy a little.

MalakithAlamahdi

Thanks for making me spill my coffee.

MalakithAlamahdi

NBrookus wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Complaining about radiant in 2018?

I'm a templar that uses radiant: I would willingly trade it for literally any other class execute.

I'll trade you for the DK Execute.

I'd love dragons leap on my magplar!

heaven13

Inarre wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Add Zaan to that and you got the triple threat.

now if only templars could soul assault WHILE jesus beaming. Then templars would be the three beam machines!

Holy trinity

MalakithAlamahdi

MaxwellC wrote: »

I gotta say I do hate soul assault, I tried blocking that thing only to die with 23k damage dealt to me. Since I'm a stamina dk ofc I shot up my rally/vigor while blocking but man that hurts.

If I were to change one thing it would be the distance it available before break or out of range.
or
Removing the snare it provides since you can't purge it (as far as I've tried).

It doesn't snare anymore, it hasn't for months.

Also, 23k while blocking? That means it'd have done 37k damage if you weren't. I'm sorry, but if it hits that much on your stam DK you're doing something wrong. I can facetank multiple of them on mine with little problems if i'm blocking.

josiahva

Joy_Division wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Soul Assault does not snare anymore.

Radiant destruction can be interupted by bashing

Which is absolutely worthless if you are 12m away, though I do often roll dodge and bash when they are actually in front of me...but most often they will RD while you are fighting another opponent from behind you, which severely limits your options in the real world. In Cyrodiil its rare indeed to get into a 1v1 with a templar....you and whatever group you are in either outnumber your opponents 3 to 1, or vice versa. Radiant Destruction and Soul Assault just are not as weak as you seem to think in the real world, although I do stick almost exclusively to no-CP Sotha Sil, so that may make a difference in my experience. I can see how RD would be worthless in CP campaigns where ever fight turns into a long drawn-out affair.

Personally I wouldn't want to be associated with the OP's uniformed argument, but that's your choice.

You're still complaining about RD? I'll trade you that right now straight up for fossilize. There's zero chance a DK will take that unless they wants to impress people with a target dummy parse.

You said it yourself: "In Cyrodiil its rare indeed to get into a 1v1 with a templar". Yeah, gee, I wonder why that could possibly be the case. That people out there just whining "Whah BoL healbotz take no skillz" "RD is instant death no counterplay!" "Whah RD has been nerfed 12 times, it's still OP plz nerf I suck lolz" have completely eviscerated the viability of running out there on a templar by itself in Cyrodiil.

No CP the ability is even worse because it's too expensive, you lose out on the bonus damage because sustain is terrible, and getting interrupted pretty much drains your already empty stam pool.

Personally, I would be very hesitant to come onto these forums and admit in public that I struggle Vs anything in this game. Especially when I get Soul Assaulted and Jesus Beamed every night - every night - by Xv1 heroes and do not find these attacks particularly difficult to counter.

lol, I wasnt claiming it was OP, just that it does show up often enough on my death recap that obviously plenty of people still use it, just like mages wrath, or executioner. None of these are OP, all are still used often.

As for not being difficult to counter....its not a big deal in 1v1, its another matter entirely for a MDK in Xv1...the only way that doesn't eat through your resources is to use mist form and retreat...MDKs have a limited stam pool so blocking may or may not be possible at any given point in a fight...and while healing ward, mutagen, and coagulating blood work fine 1v1, they are far less effective Xv1. All well and good if you have something close to LOS the beam...but in the middle of a field its not a good situation. Claim what you want, but the limited mobility you have as a DK makes it a dangerous ability...and that's fine, its a hard counter to wings...no big deal, its not OP by any means but in the real world it can be a problem for magicka builds lacking real mobility, this really applies more to SA than RD, but RD is far from useless when used in the situation described above...which happens often(this assumes its cast at under 25% health)

ShadowMonarch

josiahva wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Soul Assault does not snare anymore.

Radiant destruction can be interupted by bashing

Which is absolutely worthless if you are 12m away, though I do often roll dodge and bash when they are actually in front of me...but most often they will RD while you are fighting another opponent from behind you, which severely limits your options in the real world. In Cyrodiil its rare indeed to get into a 1v1 with a templar....you and whatever group you are in either outnumber your opponents 3 to 1, or vice versa. Radiant Destruction and Soul Assault just are not as weak as you seem to think in the real world, although I do stick almost exclusively to no-CP Sotha Sil, so that may make a difference in my experience. I can see how RD would be worthless in CP campaigns where ever fight turns into a long drawn-out affair.

Personally I wouldn't want to be associated with the OP's uniformed argument, but that's your choice.

You're still complaining about RD? I'll trade you that right now straight up for fossilize. There's zero chance a DK will take that unless they wants to impress people with a target dummy parse.

You said it yourself: "In Cyrodiil its rare indeed to get into a 1v1 with a templar". Yeah, gee, I wonder why that could possibly be the case. That people out there just whining "Whah BoL healbotz take no skillz" "RD is instant death no counterplay!" "Whah RD has been nerfed 12 times, it's still OP plz nerf I suck lolz" have completely eviscerated the viability of running out there on a templar by itself in Cyrodiil.

No CP the ability is even worse because it's too expensive, you lose out on the bonus damage because sustain is terrible, and getting interrupted pretty much drains your already empty stam pool.

Personally, I would be very hesitant to come onto these forums and admit in public that I struggle Vs anything in this game. Especially when I get Soul Assaulted and Jesus Beamed every night - every night - by Xv1 heroes and do not find these attacks particularly difficult to counter.

lol, I wasnt claiming it was OP, just that it does show up often enough on my death recap that obviously plenty of people still use it, just like mages wrath, or executioner. None of these are OP, all are still used often.

As for not being difficult to counter....its not a big deal in 1v1, its another matter entirely for a MDK in Xv1...the only way that doesn't eat through your resources is to use mist form and retreat...MDKs have a limited stam pool so blocking may or may not be possible at any given point in a fight...and while healing ward, mutagen, and coagulating blood work fine 1v1, they are far less effective Xv1. All well and good if you have something close to LOS the beam...but in the middle of a field its not a good situation. Claim what you want, but the limited mobility you have as a DK makes it a dangerous ability...and that's fine, its a hard counter to wings...no big deal, its not OP by any means but in the real world it can be a problem for magicka builds lacking real mobility, this really applies more to SA than RD, but RD is far from useless when used in the situation described above...which happens often(this assumes its cast at under 25% health)

Lol just wait till summerset you can run around with 20k stam on your magdk.

Lexxypwns

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

It's useless against anything with a damage shield or anything that can block. And it's very easy to outheal since it's a 4 seconds channel.

.

The point is, it's impossible to mitigate it with some classes in medium armor, which is currently underperforming in PVP to such an extent that it's not even viable for the most part with certain classes.

Put another way, if you think soul assault is fine as is, then you should also be in favor of


1. Massively buffing shield breaker because it is effectively the MA trump card over LA in the same way that Soul Assault is an LA trump over MA, however the 2K damage from SB is much weaker than Soul Assault, therefore it needs a 50%-75% buff to keep the two "totally fair" un-counterable build options in line with one another. Any vote in favor of Soul Assault is also a vote for buffing the Sorc aBuser set. Obviously I'm being facetious, but this illustrates why Soul Assault IS IMBALANCED and needs to be changed.




2. 2% passive dodge chance for each piece of medium armor worn in exchange for the reduced sneak cost passive, which useless as sneak cost is already cheaper than any other aspect of the game. This would literally only give MA about 6%-11% more actual mitigation due to diminishing returns on different sources of mitigation. I would settle for 1% increased dodge chance to put shuffle back in line with the 20% it once provided. Alternatively, you could just add 5% dodge chance to both major and minor evasion.


Evasion/dodge chance only seems OP to some Mag users because it once was much stronger, and because the most fully viable medium armor class, Nightblades, can combine it with cloak and roll dodge to seemingly become unhittable if the three things are timed perfectly. The issues are created much more as a result of dodge roll mechanics and cloak mechanics though, than they are because of dodge chance from evasion, which isn't really that special or impactful compared to blocking (70% mitigation if you can afford it), or damage shields which:

a. double your HP effectively, and

b. fully mitigates crits. This is stronger at base crit damage modifier than major evasion in terms of mitigation and gets stronger against enemies with high crit modifier. At base modifier, it's worth 33% mitigation x attacker's crit chance. most builds in pvp sit at around 40% or so ( and would probably be higher if not for damage shields being uncrittable), which makes the mitigation from just the crits equal to 13%-14% on average for non templar non nightblade attackers with no cp in precise strikes or elfborn. This mitigation is additive unlike dodge chance because it is factored before resistance and other mitigating sources. It's equivalent to 8800 physical and spell resistance. That's more than you'd get from 2 pieces of chudan,
5 pieces of armor master, 5 pieces of fortified brass, etc. At best, a glass cannon medium armor user with no cp in anything mitigation related would get 12.5% mitigation from major evasion assuming his resistances are lower than 11300. Once again, we aren't even adding the mitigation provided by the bonus HP a damage shield gets you, which is 50%-90% increase to the amount of damage you can take.

With regard to cloak, this could and should be corrected by preventing cloak from causing attacks to miss and There is no logical explanation for why a person who becomes invisible, suddenly also becomes immune to single target attacks. If I punch the location where a man's face is, my fist does not go through it just because he disappears from my view. Cloak needs to have no effect on incoming damage. Period.

Also, by decreasing the base cost of dodge roll while increasing the cool-down penalty so all builds are at least capable of a single dodge roll in the heat of battle without being forced to walk throughout combat and completely avoid blocking.

Really, Break free, dodge roll, and block all need base cost reductions if we're being honest. We just need to consolidate and eliminate certain exploitable means of cost reduction. It sucks that a handful of builds that are unbalanced now cause all of us to have limited use of basic combat functions. The solution should never have been to nerf mechanics, when all that was necessary was cost reduction caps and/or a system that only factors in the highest source of cost reduction, instead of stacking all of them.

Light armor shouldn't be able to dodge roll as well as MA, but it should be able to do it much more reliably and cost-efficiently than it does (and logically, it should do it better than a guy wearing chainmail as well; I don't recall ever hearing of a band of knights tumbling there way to victory in battle, though it would be absurdly amusing spectacle to be sure).



3. A medium armor passive that grants 4% chance per piece of MA to purge all disabling effects, DOTs, and debuffs whenever you roll dodge more than once within its 4 second cooldown (this is simply logical balance, since it's high cost to dodge roll twice within its cooldown, because it requires rng, but also because it provides MA a means of dealing with defiles/dots, since NONE exists for non-templars aside from a very high cost Support skill). The need for this could be eliminated however with a monster set that gives a 1 pc bonus that is stam friendly and a 2 pc bonus that provides the wearer with a purge proc.

Damage shields double your mitigation in most instances especially considering their stupidly OP ability to cancel all crit damage, heavy armor and S&B more than doubles mitigation and allows easy access to resistance cap.

Medium armor OTOH provides 5% more resistance than Light armor and allows you to use a skill that gives you 15% dodge chance. It's effectively less than 15% mitigation after factoring the diminishing returns of CP and resistance based mitigation.

With CP HA users can reduce block cost (HA mitigation and makes medium armor sustain passives unnecessary) and receive greater benefit from roll dodge cost reduction as well. Light armor users can enhance damage shield strength (LA mitigation buffed multiplicatively with 5 other CP stars!). But for medium armor users, there is nothing but dodge roll cost reduction and diminishing returns from the resistance buffs and most cost reduction CP stars. It is stupid to invest in dodge roll as a MA user because you receive less total cost reduction from it than both HA and LA users (LOL!), due to medium armor passives.

I suggest that maybe evasion needs the equivalent of befoul in the red CP constellation: a CP star that increases the amount of dodge chance provided by evasion buffs. This is what medium armor focus should be.

Otherwise, as CP increases, Mag mitigation will continue to increase rapidly and from many sources will do so multiplicative with one another, while medium armor's mitigation will only increase by an exponentially diminishing margin.




So this world where Soul Assault is perfectly balanced and fine, is absolute nonsense. The only argument in favor of it being balanced presupposes that medium armor, must be unable to mitigate yet ANOTHER source of damage.

HA and LA can mitigate Soul Assault to a much greater degree, as has already been mentioned, so the only reason to slot it would be to kill specifically medium armor wearers, which is a ridiculous reason to slot a skill, because medium armor users are already the easiest to kill. Ergo, in order to argue in favor of Soul Assault's current balance, you must acknowledge and support how poorly medium armor is balanced.


Compare that to shield breaker, which was created because there are so few sources of damage that catastrophically affect light armor mitigation.

The issue is that there are already enough hard counters against MA, while there are so few means of attacking LA and HA users that entirely lack counterplay. The last thing we need is another ULTIMATE that insta-kills MA users. Eye of the Storm already exists for this unbalanced non-competitive purpose.

If you want it to remain this strong against MA, then lets push for a morph that deals oblivion damage and prevents the target from casting a damage shield during the channel, and the other morph deals bleed damage over time after the channel ends, and triples the cost of block. Then it's still OP, but at least balanced.

Try running some defensive options in medium. Medium Impreg/Brass are comparable in direct mitigation to heavy armor specs.

Minno

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

It's useless against anything with a damage shield or anything that can block. And it's very easy to outheal since it's a 4 seconds channel.

.

The point is, it's impossible to mitigate it with some classes in medium armor, which is currently underperforming in PVP to such an extent that it's not even viable for the most part with certain classes.

Put another way, if you think soul assault is fine as is, then you should also be in favor of


1. Massively buffing shield breaker because it is effectively the MA trump card over LA in the same way that Soul Assault is an LA trump over MA, however the 2K damage from SB is much weaker than Soul Assault, therefore it needs a 50%-75% buff to keep the two "totally fair" un-counterable build options in line with one another. Any vote in favor of Soul Assault is also a vote for buffing the Sorc aBuser set. Obviously I'm being facetious, but this illustrates why Soul Assault IS IMBALANCED and needs to be changed.




2. 2% passive dodge chance for each piece of medium armor worn in exchange for the reduced sneak cost passive, which useless as sneak cost is already cheaper than any other aspect of the game. This would literally only give MA about 6%-11% more actual mitigation due to diminishing returns on different sources of mitigation. I would settle for 1% increased dodge chance to put shuffle back in line with the 20% it once provided. Alternatively, you could just add 5% dodge chance to both major and minor evasion.


Evasion/dodge chance only seems OP to some Mag users because it once was much stronger, and because the most fully viable medium armor class, Nightblades, can combine it with cloak and roll dodge to seemingly become unhittable if the three things are timed perfectly. The issues are created much more as a result of dodge roll mechanics and cloak mechanics though, than they are because of dodge chance from evasion, which isn't really that special or impactful compared to blocking (70% mitigation if you can afford it), or damage shields which:

a. double your HP effectively, and

b. fully mitigates crits. This is stronger at base crit damage modifier than major evasion in terms of mitigation and gets stronger against enemies with high crit modifier. At base modifier, it's worth 33% mitigation x attacker's crit chance. most builds in pvp sit at around 40% or so ( and would probably be higher if not for damage shields being uncrittable), which makes the mitigation from just the crits equal to 13%-14% on average for non templar non nightblade attackers with no cp in precise strikes or elfborn. This mitigation is additive unlike dodge chance because it is factored before resistance and other mitigating sources. It's equivalent to 8800 physical and spell resistance. That's more than you'd get from 2 pieces of chudan,
5 pieces of armor master, 5 pieces of fortified brass, etc. At best, a glass cannon medium armor user with no cp in anything mitigation related would get 12.5% mitigation from major evasion assuming his resistances are lower than 11300. Once again, we aren't even adding the mitigation provided by the bonus HP a damage shield gets you, which is 50%-90% increase to the amount of damage you can take.

With regard to cloak, this could and should be corrected by preventing cloak from causing attacks to miss and There is no logical explanation for why a person who becomes invisible, suddenly also becomes immune to single target attacks. If I punch the location where a man's face is, my fist does not go through it just because he disappears from my view. Cloak needs to have no effect on incoming damage. Period.

Also, by decreasing the base cost of dodge roll while increasing the cool-down penalty so all builds are at least capable of a single dodge roll in the heat of battle without being forced to walk throughout combat and completely avoid blocking.

Really, Break free, dodge roll, and block all need base cost reductions if we're being honest. We just need to consolidate and eliminate certain exploitable means of cost reduction. It sucks that a handful of builds that are unbalanced now cause all of us to have limited use of basic combat functions. The solution should never have been to nerf mechanics, when all that was necessary was cost reduction caps and/or a system that only factors in the highest source of cost reduction, instead of stacking all of them.

Light armor shouldn't be able to dodge roll as well as MA, but it should be able to do it much more reliably and cost-efficiently than it does (and logically, it should do it better than a guy wearing chainmail as well; I don't recall ever hearing of a band of knights tumbling there way to victory in battle, though it would be absurdly amusing spectacle to be sure).



3. A medium armor passive that grants 4% chance per piece of MA to purge all disabling effects, DOTs, and debuffs whenever you roll dodge more than once within its 4 second cooldown (this is simply logical balance, since it's high cost to dodge roll twice within its cooldown, because it requires rng, but also because it provides MA a means of dealing with defiles/dots, since NONE exists for non-templars aside from a very high cost Support skill). The need for this could be eliminated however with a monster set that gives a 1 pc bonus that is stam friendly and a 2 pc bonus that provides the wearer with a purge proc.

Damage shields double your mitigation in most instances especially considering their stupidly OP ability to cancel all crit damage, heavy armor and S&B more than doubles mitigation and allows easy access to resistance cap.

Medium armor OTOH provides 5% more resistance than Light armor and allows you to use a skill that gives you 15% dodge chance. It's effectively less than 15% mitigation after factoring the diminishing returns of CP and resistance based mitigation.

With CP HA users can reduce block cost (HA mitigation and makes medium armor sustain passives unnecessary) and receive greater benefit from roll dodge cost reduction as well. Light armor users can enhance damage shield strength (LA mitigation buffed multiplicatively with 5 other CP stars!). But for medium armor users, there is nothing but dodge roll cost reduction and diminishing returns from the resistance buffs and most cost reduction CP stars. It is stupid to invest in dodge roll as a MA user because you receive less total cost reduction from it than both HA and LA users (LOL!), due to medium armor passives.

I suggest that maybe evasion needs the equivalent of befoul in the red CP constellation: a CP star that increases the amount of dodge chance provided by evasion buffs. This is what medium armor focus should be.

Otherwise, as CP increases, Mag mitigation will continue to increase rapidly and from many sources will do so multiplicative with one another, while medium armor's mitigation will only increase by an exponentially diminishing margin.




So this world where Soul Assault is perfectly balanced and fine, is absolute nonsense. The only argument in favor of it being balanced presupposes that medium armor, must be unable to mitigate yet ANOTHER source of damage.

HA and LA can mitigate Soul Assault to a much greater degree, as has already been mentioned, so the only reason to slot it would be to kill specifically medium armor wearers, which is a ridiculous reason to slot a skill, because medium armor users are already the easiest to kill. Ergo, in order to argue in favor of Soul Assault's current balance, you must acknowledge and support how poorly medium armor is balanced.


Compare that to shield breaker, which was created because there are so few sources of damage that catastrophically affect light armor mitigation.

The issue is that there are already enough hard counters against MA, while there are so few means of attacking LA and HA users that entirely lack counterplay. The last thing we need is another ULTIMATE that insta-kills MA users. Eye of the Storm already exists for this unbalanced non-competitive purpose.

If you want it to remain this strong against MA, then lets push for a morph that deals oblivion damage and prevents the target from casting a damage shield during the channel, and the other morph deals bleed damage over time after the channel ends, and triples the cost of block. Then it's still OP, but at least balanced.

Try running some defensive options in medium. Medium Impreg/Brass are comparable in direct mitigation to heavy armor specs.

Pirate Skeleton as well. But you need a minimum of 12-15% healing boosts outside CP to circumvent the minor defile on the set or be able to mitigate DMG by completely advoiding it (shade, shield, etc).

But it does help on bleeds which brass does not.

Amdar_Godkiller

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Classic case of inexperienced player crying about something he doesn't fully understand.

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

It's useless against anything with a damage shield or anything that can block. And it's very easy to outheal since it's a 4 seconds channel.

.

The point is, it's impossible to mitigate it with some classes in medium armor, which is currently underperforming in PVP to such an extent that it's not even viable for the most part with certain classes.

Put another way, if you think soul assault is fine as is, then you should also be in favor of


1. Massively buffing shield breaker because it is effectively the MA trump card over LA in the same way that Soul Assault is an LA trump over MA, however the 2K damage from SB is much weaker than Soul Assault, therefore it needs a 50%-75% buff to keep the two "totally fair" un-counterable build options in line with one another. Any vote in favor of Soul Assault is also a vote for buffing the Sorc aBuser set. Obviously I'm being facetious, but this illustrates why Soul Assault IS IMBALANCED and needs to be changed.




2. 2% passive dodge chance for each piece of medium armor worn in exchange for the reduced sneak cost passive, which useless as sneak cost is already cheaper than any other aspect of the game. This would literally only give MA about 6%-11% more actual mitigation due to diminishing returns on different sources of mitigation. I would settle for 1% increased dodge chance to put shuffle back in line with the 20% it once provided. Alternatively, you could just add 5% dodge chance to both major and minor evasion.


Evasion/dodge chance only seems OP to some Mag users because it once was much stronger, and because the most fully viable medium armor class, Nightblades, can combine it with cloak and roll dodge to seemingly become unhittable if the three things are timed perfectly. The issues are created much more as a result of dodge roll mechanics and cloak mechanics though, than they are because of dodge chance from evasion, which isn't really that special or impactful compared to blocking (70% mitigation if you can afford it), or damage shields which:

a. double your HP effectively, and

b. fully mitigates crits. This is stronger at base crit damage modifier than major evasion in terms of mitigation and gets stronger against enemies with high crit modifier. At base modifier, it's worth 33% mitigation x attacker's crit chance. most builds in pvp sit at around 40% or so ( and would probably be higher if not for damage shields being uncrittable), which makes the mitigation from just the crits equal to 13%-14% on average for non templar non nightblade attackers with no cp in precise strikes or elfborn. This mitigation is additive unlike dodge chance because it is factored before resistance and other mitigating sources. It's equivalent to 8800 physical and spell resistance. That's more than you'd get from 2 pieces of chudan,
5 pieces of armor master, 5 pieces of fortified brass, etc. At best, a glass cannon medium armor user with no cp in anything mitigation related would get 12.5% mitigation from major evasion assuming his resistances are lower than 11300. Once again, we aren't even adding the mitigation provided by the bonus HP a damage shield gets you, which is 50%-90% increase to the amount of damage you can take.

With regard to cloak, this could and should be corrected by preventing cloak from causing attacks to miss and There is no logical explanation for why a person who becomes invisible, suddenly also becomes immune to single target attacks. If I punch the location where a man's face is, my fist does not go through it just because he disappears from my view. Cloak needs to have no effect on incoming damage. Period.

Also, by decreasing the base cost of dodge roll while increasing the cool-down penalty so all builds are at least capable of a single dodge roll in the heat of battle without being forced to walk throughout combat and completely avoid blocking.

Really, Break free, dodge roll, and block all need base cost reductions if we're being honest. We just need to consolidate and eliminate certain exploitable means of cost reduction. It sucks that a handful of builds that are unbalanced now cause all of us to have limited use of basic combat functions. The solution should never have been to nerf mechanics, when all that was necessary was cost reduction caps and/or a system that only factors in the highest source of cost reduction, instead of stacking all of them.

Light armor shouldn't be able to dodge roll as well as MA, but it should be able to do it much more reliably and cost-efficiently than it does (and logically, it should do it better than a guy wearing chainmail as well; I don't recall ever hearing of a band of knights tumbling there way to victory in battle, though it would be absurdly amusing spectacle to be sure).



3. A medium armor passive that grants 4% chance per piece of MA to purge all disabling effects, DOTs, and debuffs whenever you roll dodge more than once within its 4 second cooldown (this is simply logical balance, since it's high cost to dodge roll twice within its cooldown, because it requires rng, but also because it provides MA a means of dealing with defiles/dots, since NONE exists for non-templars aside from a very high cost Support skill). The need for this could be eliminated however with a monster set that gives a 1 pc bonus that is stam friendly and a 2 pc bonus that provides the wearer with a purge proc.

Damage shields double your mitigation in most instances especially considering their stupidly OP ability to cancel all crit damage, heavy armor and S&B more than doubles mitigation and allows easy access to resistance cap.

Medium armor OTOH provides 5% more resistance than Light armor and allows you to use a skill that gives you 15% dodge chance. It's effectively less than 15% mitigation after factoring the diminishing returns of CP and resistance based mitigation.

With CP HA users can reduce block cost (HA mitigation and makes medium armor sustain passives unnecessary) and receive greater benefit from roll dodge cost reduction as well. Light armor users can enhance damage shield strength (LA mitigation buffed multiplicatively with 5 other CP stars!). But for medium armor users, there is nothing but dodge roll cost reduction and diminishing returns from the resistance buffs and most cost reduction CP stars. It is stupid to invest in dodge roll as a MA user because you receive less total cost reduction from it than both HA and LA users (LOL!), due to medium armor passives.

I suggest that maybe evasion needs the equivalent of befoul in the red CP constellation: a CP star that increases the amount of dodge chance provided by evasion buffs. This is what medium armor focus should be.

Otherwise, as CP increases, Mag mitigation will continue to increase rapidly and from many sources will do so multiplicative with one another, while medium armor's mitigation will only increase by an exponentially diminishing margin.




So this world where Soul Assault is perfectly balanced and fine, is absolute nonsense. The only argument in favor of it being balanced presupposes that medium armor, must be unable to mitigate yet ANOTHER source of damage.

HA and LA can mitigate Soul Assault to a much greater degree, as has already been mentioned, so the only reason to slot it would be to kill specifically medium armor wearers, which is a ridiculous reason to slot a skill, because medium armor users are already the easiest to kill. Ergo, in order to argue in favor of Soul Assault's current balance, you must acknowledge and support how poorly medium armor is balanced.


Compare that to shield breaker, which was created because there are so few sources of damage that catastrophically affect light armor mitigation.

The issue is that there are already enough hard counters against MA, while there are so few means of attacking LA and HA users that entirely lack counterplay. The last thing we need is another ULTIMATE that insta-kills MA users. Eye of the Storm already exists for this unbalanced non-competitive purpose.

If you want it to remain this strong against MA, then lets push for a morph that deals oblivion damage and prevents the target from casting a damage shield during the channel, and the other morph deals bleed damage over time after the channel ends, and triples the cost of block. Then it's still OP, but at least balanced.

Moronic idea.

Stop crying you need a buff and get better at the game, nothing is wrong with the play style its the player that hasn't learn how to play it yet.

utterly moronic.

You'll have to be more specific. I proposed several elaborate and moronic ideas, guy who regularly whines on this message board about Stam Wardens and MagSorcs being too OP, who plays Magblade almost exclusively, and who just last month said, concerning the current state of stam builds:

"every stamclass is the exact same pile of crap with a new gimmic."



that's your own quote on the current state of stamina, so clearly you don't really disagree with my moronic assessment of the issue, at least not fully.

You just have a limited understanding of builds/life in general and disapprove of any and all things that might get in the way of your cowardly play style because for some reason you're getting buried by two classes that are currently much weaker than your own.

http://img.memecdn.com/keyboard-warriors_o_468725.jpg


And in truth, though it was for the sake of absurdity, I wasn't really asking for a buff or nerf to any class, or build, just the balancing of an ultimate so that it isn't disproportionately strongest against the weakest armor type in pvp. That could be a buff that makes it more effective against heavy and light armor, or a nerf that provides counter play for medium armor users.

If you have original ideas for the game that are productive, then suggest them, but don't waltz in, drop a load, and act like others who suggest changes and improvements are doing it because they are as gutless and unaware as you have shown yourself to be. Especially considering your post history is literally littered with constant QQing, entitlement, and idiotic, cliched accusations of the game turning P2W because you suck vs Wardens.




"nothing is wrong with the play style its the player that hasn't learn how to play it yet."

-some keyboard warrior


Thanks for the irony,

A. Godkiller







Max Level characters:



PVP Stamina WereWarden - Whitney the Widowmaker

PVP Stam Sorc - Rhythmic Jim Nasty

Hybrid Vamp DK healer - Amdar Godkiller

Magden Vamp duelist and BG build- Mara Godkiller

PVE Stamblade - Dora of Lahora

PVP Mag DK - Mean Faustine

PVE Mag Sorc - Elyon Nefili

PVP Magplar - Bags-the-Dead


Not yet max level characters:

Stamplar - Sir Bas Tardeyes Level 29

Magblade - OK Annie Level 19


1300+ CP on two accounts

XBX NA

ShadowMonarch

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Classic case of inexperienced player crying about something he doesn't fully understand.

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

It's useless against anything with a damage shield or anything that can block. And it's very easy to outheal since it's a 4 seconds channel.

.

The point is, it's impossible to mitigate it with some classes in medium armor, which is currently underperforming in PVP to such an extent that it's not even viable for the most part with certain classes.

Put another way, if you think soul assault is fine as is, then you should also be in favor of


1. Massively buffing shield breaker because it is effectively the MA trump card over LA in the same way that Soul Assault is an LA trump over MA, however the 2K damage from SB is much weaker than Soul Assault, therefore it needs a 50%-75% buff to keep the two "totally fair" un-counterable build options in line with one another. Any vote in favor of Soul Assault is also a vote for buffing the Sorc aBuser set. Obviously I'm being facetious, but this illustrates why Soul Assault IS IMBALANCED and needs to be changed.




2. 2% passive dodge chance for each piece of medium armor worn in exchange for the reduced sneak cost passive, which useless as sneak cost is already cheaper than any other aspect of the game. This would literally only give MA about 6%-11% more actual mitigation due to diminishing returns on different sources of mitigation. I would settle for 1% increased dodge chance to put shuffle back in line with the 20% it once provided. Alternatively, you could just add 5% dodge chance to both major and minor evasion.


Evasion/dodge chance only seems OP to some Mag users because it once was much stronger, and because the most fully viable medium armor class, Nightblades, can combine it with cloak and roll dodge to seemingly become unhittable if the three things are timed perfectly. The issues are created much more as a result of dodge roll mechanics and cloak mechanics though, than they are because of dodge chance from evasion, which isn't really that special or impactful compared to blocking (70% mitigation if you can afford it), or damage shields which:

a. double your HP effectively, and

b. fully mitigates crits. This is stronger at base crit damage modifier than major evasion in terms of mitigation and gets stronger against enemies with high crit modifier. At base modifier, it's worth 33% mitigation x attacker's crit chance. most builds in pvp sit at around 40% or so ( and would probably be higher if not for damage shields being uncrittable), which makes the mitigation from just the crits equal to 13%-14% on average for non templar non nightblade attackers with no cp in precise strikes or elfborn. This mitigation is additive unlike dodge chance because it is factored before resistance and other mitigating sources. It's equivalent to 8800 physical and spell resistance. That's more than you'd get from 2 pieces of chudan,
5 pieces of armor master, 5 pieces of fortified brass, etc. At best, a glass cannon medium armor user with no cp in anything mitigation related would get 12.5% mitigation from major evasion assuming his resistances are lower than 11300. Once again, we aren't even adding the mitigation provided by the bonus HP a damage shield gets you, which is 50%-90% increase to the amount of damage you can take.

With regard to cloak, this could and should be corrected by preventing cloak from causing attacks to miss and There is no logical explanation for why a person who becomes invisible, suddenly also becomes immune to single target attacks. If I punch the location where a man's face is, my fist does not go through it just because he disappears from my view. Cloak needs to have no effect on incoming damage. Period.

Also, by decreasing the base cost of dodge roll while increasing the cool-down penalty so all builds are at least capable of a single dodge roll in the heat of battle without being forced to walk throughout combat and completely avoid blocking.

Really, Break free, dodge roll, and block all need base cost reductions if we're being honest. We just need to consolidate and eliminate certain exploitable means of cost reduction. It sucks that a handful of builds that are unbalanced now cause all of us to have limited use of basic combat functions. The solution should never have been to nerf mechanics, when all that was necessary was cost reduction caps and/or a system that only factors in the highest source of cost reduction, instead of stacking all of them.

Light armor shouldn't be able to dodge roll as well as MA, but it should be able to do it much more reliably and cost-efficiently than it does (and logically, it should do it better than a guy wearing chainmail as well; I don't recall ever hearing of a band of knights tumbling there way to victory in battle, though it would be absurdly amusing spectacle to be sure).



3. A medium armor passive that grants 4% chance per piece of MA to purge all disabling effects, DOTs, and debuffs whenever you roll dodge more than once within its 4 second cooldown (this is simply logical balance, since it's high cost to dodge roll twice within its cooldown, because it requires rng, but also because it provides MA a means of dealing with defiles/dots, since NONE exists for non-templars aside from a very high cost Support skill). The need for this could be eliminated however with a monster set that gives a 1 pc bonus that is stam friendly and a 2 pc bonus that provides the wearer with a purge proc.

Damage shields double your mitigation in most instances especially considering their stupidly OP ability to cancel all crit damage, heavy armor and S&B more than doubles mitigation and allows easy access to resistance cap.

Medium armor OTOH provides 5% more resistance than Light armor and allows you to use a skill that gives you 15% dodge chance. It's effectively less than 15% mitigation after factoring the diminishing returns of CP and resistance based mitigation.

With CP HA users can reduce block cost (HA mitigation and makes medium armor sustain passives unnecessary) and receive greater benefit from roll dodge cost reduction as well. Light armor users can enhance damage shield strength (LA mitigation buffed multiplicatively with 5 other CP stars!). But for medium armor users, there is nothing but dodge roll cost reduction and diminishing returns from the resistance buffs and most cost reduction CP stars. It is stupid to invest in dodge roll as a MA user because you receive less total cost reduction from it than both HA and LA users (LOL!), due to medium armor passives.

I suggest that maybe evasion needs the equivalent of befoul in the red CP constellation: a CP star that increases the amount of dodge chance provided by evasion buffs. This is what medium armor focus should be.

Otherwise, as CP increases, Mag mitigation will continue to increase rapidly and from many sources will do so multiplicative with one another, while medium armor's mitigation will only increase by an exponentially diminishing margin.




So this world where Soul Assault is perfectly balanced and fine, is absolute nonsense. The only argument in favor of it being balanced presupposes that medium armor, must be unable to mitigate yet ANOTHER source of damage.

HA and LA can mitigate Soul Assault to a much greater degree, as has already been mentioned, so the only reason to slot it would be to kill specifically medium armor wearers, which is a ridiculous reason to slot a skill, because medium armor users are already the easiest to kill. Ergo, in order to argue in favor of Soul Assault's current balance, you must acknowledge and support how poorly medium armor is balanced.


Compare that to shield breaker, which was created because there are so few sources of damage that catastrophically affect light armor mitigation.

The issue is that there are already enough hard counters against MA, while there are so few means of attacking LA and HA users that entirely lack counterplay. The last thing we need is another ULTIMATE that insta-kills MA users. Eye of the Storm already exists for this unbalanced non-competitive purpose.

If you want it to remain this strong against MA, then lets push for a morph that deals oblivion damage and prevents the target from casting a damage shield during the channel, and the other morph deals bleed damage over time after the channel ends, and triples the cost of block. Then it's still OP, but at least balanced.

Moronic idea.

Stop crying you need a buff and get better at the game, nothing is wrong with the play style its the player that hasn't learn how to play it yet.

utterly moronic.

You'll have to be more specific. I proposed several elaborate and moronic ideas, guy who regularly whines on this message board about Stam Wardens and MagSorcs being too OP, who plays Magblade almost exclusively, and who just last month said, concerning the current state of stam builds:

"every stamclass is the exact same pile of crap with a new gimmic."



that's your own quote on the current state of stamina, so clearly you don't really disagree with my moronic assessment of the issue, at least not fully.

You just have a limited understanding of builds/life in general and disapprove of any and all things that might get in the way of your cowardly play style because for some reason you're getting buried by two classes that are currently much weaker than your own.

http://img.memecdn.com/keyboard-warriors_o_468725.jpg


And in truth, though it was for the sake of absurdity, I wasn't really asking for a buff or nerf to any class, or build, just the balancing of an ultimate so that it isn't disproportionately strongest against the weakest armor type in pvp. That could be a buff that makes it more effective against heavy and light armor, or a nerf that provides counter play for medium armor users.

If you have original ideas for the game that are productive, then suggest them, but don't waltz in, drop a load, and act like others who suggest changes and improvements are doing it because they are as gutless and unaware as you have shown yourself to be. Especially considering your post history is literally littered with constant QQing, entitlement, and idiotic, cliched accusations of the game turning P2W because you suck vs Wardens.




"nothing is wrong with the play style its the player that hasn't learn how to play it yet."

-some keyboard warrior


Thanks for the irony,

A. Godkiller







Max Level characters:



PVP Stamina WereWarden - Whitney the Widowmaker

PVP Stam Sorc - Rhythmic Jim Nasty

Hybrid Vamp DK healer - Amdar Godkiller

Magden Vamp duelist and BG build- Mara Godkiller

PVE Stamblade - Dora of Lahora

PVP Mag DK - Mean Faustine

PVE Mag Sorc - Elyon Nefili

PVP Magplar - Bags-the-Dead


Not yet max level characters:

Stamplar - Sir Bas Tardeyes Level 29

Magblade - OK Annie Level 19


1300+ CP on two accounts

XBX NA

All of your ideas are based on buffing medium armor stam builds and dodge roll spamming.
Lets go down the list.

You want:
1. A buff to shield breaker, a set that completely, 100% mitigates, an entire form of defense with no counter play.
2. You want 2% passive dodge chance per medium armor piece just for wearing medium armor when zos already had to nerf shuffle and dodge chance because it was over preforming.
3. You want a 4% per armor chance to instantly purge all effects when you dodge roll.

Absolutely moronic ideas. Maybe you should come back when you finish 6th grade and we can talk about it.

CyrusArya

What year is it???

Amdar_Godkiller

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

It's useless against anything with a damage shield or anything that can block. And it's very easy to outheal since it's a 4 seconds channel.

.

The point is, it's impossible to mitigate it with some classes in medium armor, which is currently underperforming in PVP to such an extent that it's not even viable for the most part with certain classes.

Put another way, if you think soul assault is fine as is, then you should also be in favor of


1. Massively buffing shield breaker because it is effectively the MA trump card over LA in the same way that Soul Assault is an LA trump over MA, however the 2K damage from SB is much weaker than Soul Assault, therefore it needs a 50%-75% buff to keep the two "totally fair" un-counterable build options in line with one another. Any vote in favor of Soul Assault is also a vote for buffing the Sorc aBuser set. Obviously I'm being facetious, but this illustrates why Soul Assault IS IMBALANCED and needs to be changed.




2. 2% passive dodge chance for each piece of medium armor worn in exchange for the reduced sneak cost passive, which useless as sneak cost is already cheaper than any other aspect of the game. This would literally only give MA about 6%-11% more actual mitigation due to diminishing returns on different sources of mitigation. I would settle for 1% increased dodge chance to put shuffle back in line with the 20% it once provided. Alternatively, you could just add 5% dodge chance to both major and minor evasion.


Evasion/dodge chance only seems OP to some Mag users because it once was much stronger, and because the most fully viable medium armor class, Nightblades, can combine it with cloak and roll dodge to seemingly become unhittable if the three things are timed perfectly. The issues are created much more as a result of dodge roll mechanics and cloak mechanics though, than they are because of dodge chance from evasion, which isn't really that special or impactful compared to blocking (70% mitigation if you can afford it), or damage shields which:

a. double your HP effectively, and

b. fully mitigates crits. This is stronger at base crit damage modifier than major evasion in terms of mitigation and gets stronger against enemies with high crit modifier. At base modifier, it's worth 33% mitigation x attacker's crit chance. most builds in pvp sit at around 40% or so ( and would probably be higher if not for damage shields being uncrittable), which makes the mitigation from just the crits equal to 13%-14% on average for non templar non nightblade attackers with no cp in precise strikes or elfborn. This mitigation is additive unlike dodge chance because it is factored before resistance and other mitigating sources. It's equivalent to 8800 physical and spell resistance. That's more than you'd get from 2 pieces of chudan,
5 pieces of armor master, 5 pieces of fortified brass, etc. At best, a glass cannon medium armor user with no cp in anything mitigation related would get 12.5% mitigation from major evasion assuming his resistances are lower than 11300. Once again, we aren't even adding the mitigation provided by the bonus HP a damage shield gets you, which is 50%-90% increase to the amount of damage you can take.

With regard to cloak, this could and should be corrected by preventing cloak from causing attacks to miss and There is no logical explanation for why a person who becomes invisible, suddenly also becomes immune to single target attacks. If I punch the location where a man's face is, my fist does not go through it just because he disappears from my view. Cloak needs to have no effect on incoming damage. Period.

Also, by decreasing the base cost of dodge roll while increasing the cool-down penalty so all builds are at least capable of a single dodge roll in the heat of battle without being forced to walk throughout combat and completely avoid blocking.

Really, Break free, dodge roll, and block all need base cost reductions if we're being honest. We just need to consolidate and eliminate certain exploitable means of cost reduction. It sucks that a handful of builds that are unbalanced now cause all of us to have limited use of basic combat functions. The solution should never have been to nerf mechanics, when all that was necessary was cost reduction caps and/or a system that only factors in the highest source of cost reduction, instead of stacking all of them.

Light armor shouldn't be able to dodge roll as well as MA, but it should be able to do it much more reliably and cost-efficiently than it does (and logically, it should do it better than a guy wearing chainmail as well; I don't recall ever hearing of a band of knights tumbling there way to victory in battle, though it would be absurdly amusing spectacle to be sure).



3. A medium armor passive that grants 4% chance per piece of MA to purge all disabling effects, DOTs, and debuffs whenever you roll dodge more than once within its 4 second cooldown (this is simply logical balance, since it's high cost to dodge roll twice within its cooldown, because it requires rng, but also because it provides MA a means of dealing with defiles/dots, since NONE exists for non-templars aside from a very high cost Support skill). The need for this could be eliminated however with a monster set that gives a 1 pc bonus that is stam friendly and a 2 pc bonus that provides the wearer with a purge proc.

Damage shields double your mitigation in most instances especially considering their stupidly OP ability to cancel all crit damage, heavy armor and S&B more than doubles mitigation and allows easy access to resistance cap.

Medium armor OTOH provides 5% more resistance than Light armor and allows you to use a skill that gives you 15% dodge chance. It's effectively less than 15% mitigation after factoring the diminishing returns of CP and resistance based mitigation.

With CP HA users can reduce block cost (HA mitigation and makes medium armor sustain passives unnecessary) and receive greater benefit from roll dodge cost reduction as well. Light armor users can enhance damage shield strength (LA mitigation buffed multiplicatively with 5 other CP stars!). But for medium armor users, there is nothing but dodge roll cost reduction and diminishing returns from the resistance buffs and most cost reduction CP stars. It is stupid to invest in dodge roll as a MA user because you receive less total cost reduction from it than both HA and LA users (LOL!), due to medium armor passives.

I suggest that maybe evasion needs the equivalent of befoul in the red CP constellation: a CP star that increases the amount of dodge chance provided by evasion buffs. This is what medium armor focus should be.

Otherwise, as CP increases, Mag mitigation will continue to increase rapidly and from many sources will do so multiplicative with one another, while medium armor's mitigation will only increase by an exponentially diminishing margin.




So this world where Soul Assault is perfectly balanced and fine, is absolute nonsense. The only argument in favor of it being balanced presupposes that medium armor, must be unable to mitigate yet ANOTHER source of damage.

HA and LA can mitigate Soul Assault to a much greater degree, as has already been mentioned, so the only reason to slot it would be to kill specifically medium armor wearers, which is a ridiculous reason to slot a skill, because medium armor users are already the easiest to kill. Ergo, in order to argue in favor of Soul Assault's current balance, you must acknowledge and support how poorly medium armor is balanced.


Compare that to shield breaker, which was created because there are so few sources of damage that catastrophically affect light armor mitigation.

The issue is that there are already enough hard counters against MA, while there are so few means of attacking LA and HA users that entirely lack counterplay. The last thing we need is another ULTIMATE that insta-kills MA users. Eye of the Storm already exists for this unbalanced non-competitive purpose.

If you want it to remain this strong against MA, then lets push for a morph that deals oblivion damage and prevents the target from casting a damage shield during the channel, and the other morph deals bleed damage over time after the channel ends, and triples the cost of block. Then it's still OP, but at least balanced.

Try running some defensive options in medium. Medium Impreg/Brass are comparable in direct mitigation to heavy armor specs.

I've actually gotten pretty good at playing in medium armor, and I do use chudan at times and have an Armor Master setup as well, but having played PVP in all three types of armor, I still feel its objectively weaker than other armor set ups mostly because of the dodge roll cooldown (and I know this is also an issue for mag users, because it's tough to manage on my Magden at times), the fact that one second blocking can basically blow away 9K stamina (6.5K from block cost x 4 ticks, and 2.5K from the fact that blocking cuts off my regen), the fact that medium armor sets are just not as versatile in terms of utility as HA and LA sets, the fact that major evasion is laughably weak in terms of mitigation compared to damage shields and high resistances, and the fact that purging even with a high mag pool is rarely practical because of the ease with which you get debuffed/defiled currently and the 5K+ cost of the efficient morph (it can be used, but it's really hard to slot any other mag-costing skill then, kind of ruins class identity IMO).

The issue is that Line of Sight isn't as effective at avoiding damage as damage shields and huge resistances, and line of sight, not dodge roll or evasion, is the primary means of medium armor mitigation. Never mind that it's almost as effective in heavy and light armor. In medium your only as good as your ability to bend around props and trees without running, blocking, or roll dodging more than once every 5 seconds.

It's like birth control strategies basically. Light armor is like using a condom. It's great so long as it doesn't break. Heavy armor is the pill, it's almost always effective, but comes with drawbacks and occasionally still fails.

Medium armor mitigation OTOH is the equivalent of pulling out, and hoping you get lucky (no pun intended).

CatchMeTrolling

I don't see how there's still complaints about radiant, the skill is mediocre at best in its current state. It's so mediocre that I rarely use it and question why I even have it on my bar.