nords are underperforming

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER

It's a tank race and yet no tank uses it...argonian is just so much better.

Could need some love maybe?

Turelus

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

It's a tank race and yet no tank uses it...argonian is just so much better.

Could need some love maybe?

I use one for my DK tank, so people do use them.

You don't HAVE to be an Argonian to tank, it's just easier/better. I mean we all of someone who does a good job as a Khajiit which isn't even a "tank race".

casparian

Turelus wrote: »

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

It's a tank race and yet no tank uses it...argonian is just so much better.

Could need some love maybe?

I use one for my DK tank, so people do use them.

You don't HAVE to be an Argonian to tank, it's just easier/better. I mean we all of someone who does a good job as a Khajiit which isn't even a "tank race".

OP's point goes a little further than that, though. Presumably OP wasn't saying that in fact no player tanks on a Nord -- obviously people tank on every race. The point is that there's no gameplay-based reason to tank on a Nord. Other than roleplay or not wanting to buy a race-change token, why be a Nord? They offer no advantage that isn't outclassed by other races.

The problem with Nords is that that's true no matter what role or spec you're going for -- PVP bruiser, PVE tank, PVE DPS, PVP support, PVE healer, etc. It's always better not to be a Nord. That suggests something about their racial passives needs to be adjusted.

Peekachu99

A Nord Warden tank has 14% mitigation at pretty much all times. That’s not insignificant when paired with major protection and Armor caps/ impen.

Now slap on permafrost set (again, which people call “useless”) and trollking and another set for flavour and you have a nigh unkillable Nord tank.

You’re welcome.

P.S. The Warden Shield procs permafrost.

EDS604

I play nord on my warden tank, 6% dmg mitigation stacks pretty darn nice with frost cloak that gives you another 8%.
I don't see why warden is bad for tanks, since they get a +stam% and +health% bonus. I do have to admit, the frost dmg resistance is a bit meh.. almost no content that has cold dmg. Suggestion for buffing nords : give them % more frost dmg.
Long story short, I have no complaints about my nord warden tank.

Bigevilpeter

Nords are a solid race, the are just not BiS for any role doesn't mean they are bad in anyway.

High health/good stamina, pure damage reduction and health regen and the cold resistance has its uses at times not to mention they can't be chilled.

They are the tankiest race in the game but some people prefer better sustain or healing recieved

Earthewen

Nords just don't have as good as racial passives since they nerfed them awhile back. I think some of the racial passives just stink when it comes to combat. Some of them are even downright silly. The racial passives need to be re-thought out.

Yzalirk

For a race that is depicted as the best warriors, I am baffled by how this is not reflected upon in ESO.

jlmurra2

Yzalirk wrote: »

For a race that is depicted as the best warriors, I am baffled by how this is not reflected upon in ESO.

I thought the best warrior race was Redguards.

I agree that an increase in ice/frost damage would put the Nord on more even ground with other races. It would give a nice offense option. That combined with their tanking attributes would make them well rounded.

Skander

Nord, imperial (for stamina) and Breton (for magicka) are the weakest races atm.

Breton being "weak" only becouse their last race passive needs a little buff

Stinkyremy

My main, is a nord DK tank. I choose nord as I play nord in all TES games, and DK because I liked the class. This was before the game even released.
I didn't even decide to be a tank I just fell into the role as it suits my playstyle.
While yes, "meta ***" will tell you if you aren't an argonian you are "useless" but they don't see me dying, or struggling for resources. in fact the only issue I would ever have with resources is because I am forced to use sets and skills I actually don't want to use, tourogs, alkosh, warhorn.
DK tank with 1h shield ult has no problems whatever race you choose.
My only issue as nord I have is that I sometimes forget that the cryomancers in game do a lot of damage to my team as I forget that it is my nords resistances that make me see them as crap tier enemies.

Following meta is for idiots and epeen chasers.
Just because of redguard racial perks does not mean every stam has to be a redguard. Same goes for mag altmer, tank argonian or healer breton.
Choose whatever race and class you want.

ayu_fever

since TES 3 morrowind i have favored the nord race.
i find their lore and style the most interesting of all elder scrolls races.

my main in eso is a nord stamina templar tank and have no issues because she is a nord.
there is nothing i have failed to complete with her.
maybe imperial or argonian would be “better” but i play with what i want to use and make it work.

Turelus

Stinkyremy wrote: »

My main, is a nord DK tank. I choose nord as I play nord in all TES games, and DK because I liked the class. This was before the game even released.
I didn't even decide to be a tank I just fell into the role as it suits my playstyle.
While yes, "meta ***" will tell you if you aren't an argonian you are "useless" but they don't see me dying, or struggling for resources. in fact the only issue I would ever have with resources is because I am forced to use sets and skills I actually don't want to use, tourogs, alkosh, warhorn.
DK tank with 1h shield ult has no problems whatever race you choose.
My only issue as nord I have is that I sometimes forget that the cryomancers in game do a lot of damage to my team as I forget that it is my nords resistances that make me see them as crap tier enemies.

Following meta is for idiots and epeen chasers.
Just because of redguard racial perks does not mean every stam has to be a redguard. Same goes for mag altmer, tank argonian or healer breton.
Choose whatever race and class you want.

Whilst I agree with your over all theory, those sets and skills are request/required in bigger trials groups because it helps group play. ESO isn't a game where the tanks and healers just do their one job and otherwise kick back, they get a lot of supporting roles added in.

Yzalirk

jlmurra2 wrote: »

Yzalirk wrote: »

For a race that is depicted as the best warriors, I am baffled by how this is not reflected upon in ESO.

I thought the best warrior race was Redguards.

I agree that an increase in ice/frost damage would put the Nord on more even ground with other races. It would give a nice offense option. That combined with their tanking attributes would make them well rounded.

Not necessarily. Redguards do tend to be skilled swordsmen as they typically shun the use of magic, or at least they do not really use it. Nords have been known to be great soldiers and mercenaries due to their hardiness and brute strength.

I disagree wholeheartedly. That would only then encourage players to only make Nords Wardens because of the bonus frost damage. In my opinion, their passive stats, health and stamina, should definitely be increased closer to those of Imperials. Nords basically had the first empire after all.

MattT1988

I’ve got a nord tank and done all the vet dungeons and vet trials except for VMAW and VHOF with it.

Are there better races? Probably, But you can still any tanking content with a nord.

Royaji

EDS604 wrote: »

I play nord on my warden tank, 6% dmg mitigation stacks pretty darn nice with frost cloak that gives you another 8%.
I don't see why warden is bad for tanks, since they get a +stam% and +health% bonus. I do have to admit, the frost dmg resistance is a bit meh.. almost no content that has cold dmg. Suggestion for buffing nords : give them % more frost dmg.
Long story short, I have no complaints about my nord warden tank.

Here is a thing, nord's passive is not additive. It's multiplicative. And is applied at the very end of the mitigation calculation. On average you are getting 2-3% mitigation from it. Nowhere close to 6% in the tooltip.

Betsararie

They've been garbage for a long time. Could use a completely rework

JKorr

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

It's a tank race and yet no tank uses it...argonian is just so much better.

Could need some love maybe?

I'll be sure to consider your opinion while playing my 4 nord tanks. I don't have issues with using Nords, however I don't pvp and don't care about trials, so, whatever. They kill things and don't die a lot which works for me.

tinythinker

Yzalirk wrote: »

For a race that is depicted as the best warriors, I am baffled by how this is not reflected upon in ESO.

Maybe not the best warriors (Redguard comes to mind) but certainly the "dangerous when cornered type". Which is why a few years ago when everyone was talking about all the racial passives, I suggested a "reverse execute" for Nords that makes them more interesting as tanks and as dps.

The idea is that under 25% health, they do more damage, scaling up to over 300%. So you drop to 15% health and you are doing double damage on all attacks. To under 10% you are doing triple damage. Obviously the exact percentages and their curve don't have to be those exact numbers (some people always get hung up on the placeholder numbers rather than the concept itself), but this works well with Nord tankiness even as a damage dealer.

If you are in PvP you aren't going to want to try to hang around 10-15% health because people using execute abilities will drop you, yet you get a panic button passive to help you battle back if you get in trouble.

In PvE a tank that can sometimes finish a very low health boss as the last party member standing with that passive would also be fun and add a new dimension to some scenarios.

Or, instead of a reverse execute, they could move the max health bonus to Rugged next to the damage resistance bonus, rename Resist Frost to Child of Atmora, and add 8% extra damage with frost. There is only one class that uses frost, and it's a tanking skill line, not to mention the frost staff is also tanking, so it would fit well without being OP, especially since Nords get stamina bonuses not magicka so an ice nord tank could really use the extra help.

Joy_Division

Peekachu99 wrote: »

A Nord Warden tank has 14% mitigation at pretty much all times. That’s not insignificant when paired with major protection and Armor caps/ impen.

Now slap on permafrost set (again, which people call “useless”) and trollking and another set for flavour and you have a nigh unkillable Nord tank.

You’re welcome.

P.S. The Warden Shield procs permafrost.

If the Nord's racial passive actually worked the way you think it does, it would be a good race.

The more damage mitigation you combine, the less efficient they each become.

Nemesis7884

change that frost resist into +3% frost damage +3% physical damage and it would be a pretty solid choice for various functions...

DanteYoda

Yet another posterboy thread for why races stats ruined ESO..

Lysette

Blanco wrote: »

They've been garbage for a long time. Could use a completely rework

Well, well - garbage - I am quite impressed by my "garbage" Nord warden - she performs pretty well and can stand her ground. This is not even because of being a warden, but being a warden supports her sustainability even more. Nord is very well suited for the warden class, even it doesn't make much sense from a roleplay perspective IMO, because Nord is lore-wise more of a hands on combat type of race going right in with a 2-hander whereas I see warden as a more range-based class.

fred4

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

It's a tank race and yet no tank uses it...argonian is just so much better.

It would be nice to back this up with some math or tests. The fact that "no one uses" the race merely shows that people follow the meta espoused by well-known players, not that that meta is entirely correct.

I play a few classes in PvP. Not enough to make a comparison between races, but I find there is a night and day difference between my Nord DK and my stamblade, and also a stamplar I just tried. All medium armor builds. The Nord DK is extremely tanky in duels against my friend, which translates to higher uptime on attacks and less time spent on defensive skills. I am unclear as to why that is, since my DK is not a blocking build, which is where DK passives shine. I can only figure that Nords may be underrated. I would not like them to lose the damage reduction passive.

Royaji

fred4 wrote: »

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

It's a tank race and yet no tank uses it...argonian is just so much better.

It would be nice to back this up with some math or tests. The fact that "no one uses" the race merely shows that people follow the meta espoused by well-known players, not that that meta is entirely correct.

I play a few classes in PvP. Not enough to make a comparison between races, but I find there is a night and day difference between my Nord DK and my stamblade, and also a stamplar I just tried. All medium armor builds. The Nord DK is extremely tanky in duels against my friend, which translates to higher uptime on attacks and less time spent on defensive skills. I am unclear as to why that is, since my DK is not a blocking build, which is where DK passives shine. I can only figure that Nords may be underrated. I would not like them to lose the damage reduction passive.

You case is the only situation when nord passive is actually worthwhile. It works when you have no other mitigation modifiers and actually gives you 5-6% mititgation. It's useless once you start adding other mitigations sources though.

cal50

Have a Nord tank and happy.

Peekachu99

Royaji wrote: »

EDS604 wrote: »

I play nord on my warden tank, 6% dmg mitigation stacks pretty darn nice with frost cloak that gives you another 8%.
I don't see why warden is bad for tanks, since they get a +stam% and +health% bonus. I do have to admit, the frost dmg resistance is a bit meh.. almost no content that has cold dmg. Suggestion for buffing nords : give them % more frost dmg.
Long story short, I have no complaints about my nord warden tank.

Here is a thing, nord's passive is not additive. It's multiplicative. And is applied at the very end of the mitigation calculation. On average you are getting 2-3% mitigation from it. Nowhere close to 6% in the tooltip.

Even multiplicative, you say that figure as if it’s negligible when it’s the equivalent of ten of points in CP or 1-2k Armor and Spell resistance as a 3 sp passive.

Royaji

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

EDS604 wrote: »

I play nord on my warden tank, 6% dmg mitigation stacks pretty darn nice with frost cloak that gives you another 8%.
I don't see why warden is bad for tanks, since they get a +stam% and +health% bonus. I do have to admit, the frost dmg resistance is a bit meh.. almost no content that has cold dmg. Suggestion for buffing nords : give them % more frost dmg.
Long story short, I have no complaints about my nord warden tank.

Here is a thing, nord's passive is not additive. It's multiplicative. And is applied at the very end of the mitigation calculation. On average you are getting 2-3% mitigation from it. Nowhere close to 6% in the tooltip.

Even multiplicative, you say that figure as if it’s negligible when it’s the equivalent of ten of points in CP or 1-2k Armor and Spell resistance as a 3 sp passive.

No. It's negligible compared to 6% more stam and health or 2000 extra resources on any pot. Even Redguard passives are better suited for a tank than nords.

Kodrac

The only thing that woul come out of this is the nerfing/removal of the Argonain potion passive. They won't buff Nord's passives. They don't buff anything - only nerf.

Sergykid

max stam, max hp, and damage reduction, all sound pretty good to me actually.

The_Auror

To everyone getting defensive about their Nord characters, OP is asking for buffs for your race! How is that a bad thing?

As someone with a Nord DK tank I agree, their passives need a buff somewhere.