Still No Strife Change

reprosal

Other

NyassaV wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Lol if you think magblade has bad sustain try playing stamplar.

DW heavy attacks are sorta the best heavies in the game. I quit playing stamplar a long time ago but I am very well versed in how they play

Think he is talking about PvE where you are talking about PvP man.

NyassaV

Change Strife

@Juhasow It will be less effective because that's what the word effective means. To specify you could say cost effective.

As for PvP you are very correct in the point of it's not the end of the world. It's the end of the play style. There is now no more skill that I would ever use in PvP which steals the life magic from my enemies and gives it to myself. Siphoning attacks sucks at that and Tether is only really used for bombing as it's to expensive for me to use over resto ult.

NyassaV

Change Strife

reprosal wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Lol if you think magblade has bad sustain try playing stamplar.

DW heavy attacks are sorta the best heavies in the game. I quit playing stamplar a long time ago but I am very well versed in how they play

Think he is talking about PvE where you are talking about PvP man.

DW has the best heavy attacks in the game. That is a fact. Stamplar sustain sucks but you can take advantage of having the best heavy attacks in game in PvE or PvP.

reprosal

Other

NyassaV wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Lol if you think magblade has bad sustain try playing stamplar.

DW heavy attacks are sorta the best heavies in the game. I quit playing stamplar a long time ago but I am very well versed in how they play

Think he is talking about PvE where you are talking about PvP man.

DW has the best heavy attacks in the game. That is a fact. Stamplar sustain sucks but you can take advantage of having the best heavy attacks in game in PvE or PvP.

I am not saying they are not the fastest. I am saying they are a huge DPS loss in a stamplar rotation. This is fact. That is what his point was.

templesus

NyassaV wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Lol if you think magblade has bad sustain try playing stamplar.

DW heavy attacks are sorta the best heavies in the game. I quit playing stamplar a long time ago but I am very well versed in how they play

Nice of you to automatically assume every stamplar is DW. I guess ill go ahead and assume every magblade plays destro resto, in which you can heavy attack with resto to get more resource back then any other weapon in the game.

I in fact play 2h/Bow, so yet again ill say it; if you think magblade has bad sustain try playing stamplar.

Lucky28

One less-cost morph + one more cost and more heal moprh

Nifty2g wrote: »

It is a spammable, and theyre bringing spammables in line with each other, I think it is totally justified.

and why is there a need to bring spammables in line with each other?. i mean other than to dull gameplay and make every class and every spec play exactly the same as the other.

Dumbing down gameplay is not a justification. how people are actually defending this sort of a change regardless of class is beyond me it sets a bad precedent for future changes.

reprosal

Other

templesus wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Lol if you think magblade has bad sustain try playing stamplar.

DW heavy attacks are sorta the best heavies in the game. I quit playing stamplar a long time ago but I am very well versed in how they play

Nice of you to automatically assume every stamplar is DW. I guess ill go ahead and assume every magblade plays destro resto, in which you can heavy attack with resto to get more resource back then any other weapon in the game.

I in fact play 2h/Bow, so yet again ill say it; if you think magblade has bad sustain try playing stamplar.

Stamplar is in a very bad spot for PvE especially after this change to Sunderflame. No reason to bring one at all.

[Edit to remove bait]

ascan7

Osubaker33 wrote: »

They didn't increase the cost of strife enough, another 20% higher cost would be perfect.

This kind of hatred for NB make people blind
Strife should cost 2200-2300

templesus

reprosal wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Lol if you think magblade has bad sustain try playing stamplar.

DW heavy attacks are sorta the best heavies in the game. I quit playing stamplar a long time ago but I am very well versed in how they play

Nice of you to automatically assume every stamplar is DW. I guess ill go ahead and assume every magblade plays destro resto, in which you can heavy attack with resto to get more resource back then any other weapon in the game.

I in fact play 2h/Bow, so yet again ill say it; if you think magblade has bad sustain try playing stamplar.

Stamplar is in a very bad spot for PvE especially after this change to Sunderflame. No reason to bring one at all.

Not sure I’d say that, certain changes allow for a certain set to be viable in PvE that is pulling pretty high numbers. Although the fact remains why even have stamina in pve period.

reprosal

Other

templesus wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Lol if you think magblade has bad sustain try playing stamplar.

DW heavy attacks are sorta the best heavies in the game. I quit playing stamplar a long time ago but I am very well versed in how they play

Nice of you to automatically assume every stamplar is DW. I guess ill go ahead and assume every magblade plays destro resto, in which you can heavy attack with resto to get more resource back then any other weapon in the game.

I in fact play 2h/Bow, so yet again ill say it; if you think magblade has bad sustain try playing stamplar.

Don’t worry about what this ‘girl’ says. Just whines when something is changed about his class and wants nerfs for any class that kills him.

Stamplar is in a very bad spot for PvE especially after this change to Sunderflame. No reason to bring one at all.

Not sure I’d say that, certain changes allow for a certain set to be viable in PvE that is pulling pretty high numbers. Although the fact remains why even have stamina in pve period.

Yea but stamplars only unique buff is now being done by an armor set and the other stam DPS classes available generally perform much better than a stamplar when they equip said set.

NyassaV

Change Strife

templesus wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Lol if you think magblade has bad sustain try playing stamplar.

DW heavy attacks are sorta the best heavies in the game. I quit playing stamplar a long time ago but I am very well versed in how they play

Nice of you to automatically assume every stamplar is DW. I guess ill go ahead and assume every magblade plays destro resto, in which you can heavy attack with resto to get more resource back then any other weapon in the game.

I in fact play 2h/Bow, so yet again ill say it; if you think magblade has bad sustain try playing stamplar.

You missed the point. I do/have played stamplar. Yes it sucks. 2H heavy attacks are not that uselsss

templesus

NyassaV wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Lol if you think magblade has bad sustain try playing stamplar.

DW heavy attacks are sorta the best heavies in the game. I quit playing stamplar a long time ago but I am very well versed in how they play

Nice of you to automatically assume every stamplar is DW. I guess ill go ahead and assume every magblade plays destro resto, in which you can heavy attack with resto to get more resource back then any other weapon in the game.

I in fact play 2h/Bow, so yet again ill say it; if you think magblade has bad sustain try playing stamplar.

You missed the point. I do/have played stamplar. Yes it sucks. 2H heavy attacks are not that uselsss

you’re saying heavy attack to sustain... So the strife cost increase is fine then correct because you can resto/destro pull? You must be fine because my spammable is much more expensive but according to you heavy attacks are enough.

usmcjdking

NyassaV wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Nightblades have no good defense so their offense is cheap.

wut

Cloak only works 50% of the time, cloak has very hard counters, and you do have the option of using Mirage but sometimes it can be hard to fit on your bar.

Templar has BoL and I guess ritual counts, sorta
Sorc has Hardened Ward, streak, and dark conversion
DKs have an array of passives + the bursty heal from embers (embers is inexpensive)
Wardens have... What don't Wardens have?!?!

Cloak works a vast majority of the time. The times when I'm pulled out of cloak is because someone actively did something to pull me out of cloak. The user grievances about the quality of this skill come down to people being upset that invisibility =/= invincibility.

Magblade has by far the best defensive toolkit available to it.

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx

> Stamblade
> Ez sustain
pick one

Rohamad_Ali

One less-cost morph + one more cost and more heal moprh

Lucky28 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

It is a spammable, and theyre bringing spammables in line with each other, I think it is totally justified.

and why is there a need to bring spammables in line with each other?. i mean other than to dull gameplay and make every class and every spec play exactly the same as the other.

Dumbing down gameplay is not a justification. how people are actually defending this sort of a change regardless of class is beyond me it sets a bad precedent for future changes.

Yes but We're not suppose to complain until it's the end of the world . These forums lol .

wolfxspice

Other

they should leave it a low as it is now, force pulse already does a lot more damage because of the asylum staff and the penetrating magic passive, and the new psijic light attack ability just has higher base damage plus it will apply a status affect, (which in case some people don't know, when a status affect is applied about 2k damage is done) the changes being done only punishes people who don't run in optimized groups, raids or otherwise. what do i have to look forward to this update anyways, architecture that doesn't respect the lore, having to rework my magblade to be a heavy attack build, i haven't even played other classes since morrowind, (because their all heavy attack builds, and thats slow and not fun), and a crafting grind that their gonna let their gonna let people buy their way past. this is why i been playing Tera lately, cant wait till BDO comes to console woot woot. whatever, rambling, i love ESO i don't want to see this happen to it.

NyassaV

Change Strife

@ZOS_Wrobel wake up

NyassaV wrote: »

I was told to wait until week three and here we are. The skill remains to costly for what it offers. I'm tired of the class getting worse and worse but at the same time "Easier to play." A 40% cost increase is unacceptable.

So Magblade isn't really over preforming much in comparison to stamblade in PvP Environments. I'm honestly shocked to see Magblade gets hit with a strife nerf (and stamblade still has ez sustain). Which is the one thing ZoS could do to actually truly annoy me. With this change to strife the skill is no longer really unique anymore and it doesn't even fix the issue of them over-preforming in PvE environments. It literally only punishes solo players and people who PvP. Many roleplayers (myself included) started playing a nightblade two years ago cuz strife was a fun skill and not overly punishing. Most those people are still very casual and will probably wish they choose something else to play. In addition to this most tanks use this skill for healing so the cheap cost is very necessary for them, another skill that tanks use for healing is burning embers which is FAR cheaper than strife is on live. A solution would be to make Strife cost about as much or slightly less then concealed weapon. That way the uniqueness of the skill in preserved and it still does less damage than Concealed Weapon and Force pulse. I can get behind a cost increase but the current amount that is proposed is pretty stupid as it doesn't do anything but hurt an audience it's not supposed to. If they'd make it unreflectable, increase the base healing/make it's healing done it's own value as opposed to a percentage of damage done, allow Strife's individual ticks to crit again/make the HOT value not refresh each time it's cast but instead when it's value becomes higher, it'd still be worth slotting as a defensive counterpart to Force Pulse's pure damage. But hey lets give mDK more sustain and make it even more powerful than it already is (Which is fine, but not if strife has the cost of force-pulse).

Now Force Pulse and Strife cost the same, so why would anyone use Strife instead of the objectively better Force Pulse (which isn't even a class ability)? Alright, so you lose out on a little bit of extra healing, whoop-dee-doo unless you're in solo content or a bad group. I get it that you can tweak your setup to still use Strife like you used to (kinda), but why bother using it when Force Pulse is a better version that costs the same? Can anyone explain why they would still want to use Strife instead of Force Pulse now? It's really getting old with this "community asks for a slight tweak, ZOS swings the nerf sledgehammer" business.

Sustain is what made the magicka nightblade what it is. It is part of their identity. Changing that drastically effects it. Especially because they buffed the DKs sustain which is pretty stupid seeing as DK has and always will be powerful no mater what ZOS does to it.

Let's not forget in PvP strife is reflectable while crushing shock isn't. TBH that doesn't even make sense since I am stealing life from someone not throwing something at them!

You are trying to change magblades PvE preformance but really all you do is affect PvP. You can still sustain perfectly fine in a PvE environment with Strife as a spammable but in PvP magblade is getting shafted due to how Siphoning attacks works now. A Magblade could use leeching strikes to help them sustain their stamina becuase strife was relatively inexpensive however now that will no longer be a very viable option thus magblade cannot sustain anymore. Reverting Siphoning attacks to it's pre-morrowind state would be nice (Adjusted values if you must) but you could just not increase the cost of strife.

I don't understand is why zos insists on messing with the way that magnb plays. A lot of players like magnb because of the lack of heavy attacks, that's what makes it enjoyable to play, and if you get rid of that, magnb brings nothing really unique in terms of gameplay to the table. Ruining the way the class plays for balance issues is not the way to make changes. If I have to heavy attack all the time, I'm just not going to play the game anymore or simply respec to stamblade.

Strife was imbalanced in terms of cost/damage ratio. So it needed adjustment in one or the other way. Putting it as high as force pulse is the wrong way of balancing PvE. And PvP simply suffers because of it.

Also cementing the DK tank meta cuz embers only costs like 1.5k (1.3k with light armor passives) now nightblade looses their cheap heal/damage dealer. But hey thanks for fixing the animation issues which is by far a L2P problem because after a bit of practice it's easy to get used too.

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

On the Strife nerf,

I've been experimenting with Force Pulse in PvP in light of this.

Force Pulse is:

• More damage (if you account for Penetrating Magic and Altmer/Dunmer racials, it might even be more or the same without racials)
• Unreflectable, which is very strong as the rest of the ranged mNB kit is reflectable. Allows much more pressure against DKs and Wardens.
• Can be much more reliably animation canceled in lag
• No need to slot an extra skill to get Ancient Knowledge, allowing use of better alternative abilities
• Doubles the uptime of status effects. This might not seem like much, but burning adds quite a bit of pressure if your damage is already pressure based.

Strife:

• While minor vitality is strong, much of the effect is lost by being front-bar'd, especially if you're damage shield based.
• The HoT won't proc against block, can be "mitigated" (including against damage shields, no crits), and can be negated by dodging/reflecting the base damage, making it very weak in most practical situations. The strength of the HoT doesn't translate to PvP at all due to the ways to avoid and mitigate it. I don't even notice it's gone.

The actual strength of this ability was being able to stack more damage as a return for it's cheaper cost. Without that, it's a very weak skill compared to FP/CS.

You want to have more diversity in builds, but don't you see that with these kind of changes when you are the one who kills diversity with changes like this. This is a game changer for every single magblade and even those few stamblades who refuse to PvP for Vigor and need a little healing

LSKidson wrote: »

[*] Strife: Honestly, the strife change was absolutely crippling (In raid and on dummy). There are a lot of good posts on here that explain and compare strife to force pulse and the justification for the huge cost increase just doesn't exist. I don't think the cost increase idea is a terrible one because the skill does offer some utility, but it should not cost as much as force pulse. Currently, on live strife costs a ~1900, I think a cost of 2100-2300 would be much more inline with the utility and damage this skill offers.

Overall this change is moronically stupid and I'd like it if the Devs would explain more in-depth about this and why they are doing it. The reasons they have given so far are stupid due to the results we have found

Please continue your streak of good patches without major mess ups. Currently it's just Clockwork City and Dragon Bones but I want to see three in a row!

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER

Strife is dead. They killed it.

Use force pulse, more damage and stronger passives (destruction staff). Really nice build variety btw.

Subversus

Change Strife

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

Strife is dead. They killed it.

Use force pulse, more damage and stronger passives (destruction staff). Really nice build variety btw.

Not in pvp, magblades will hardly feel the difference in pvp. I didn’t even alter my build on the pts to suit the changes, and I run a build that sustains the bare minimum.

HuawaSepp

Subversus wrote: »

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

Strife is dead. They killed it.

Use force pulse, more damage and stronger passives (destruction staff). Really nice build variety btw.

Not in pvp, magblades will hardly feel the difference in pvp. I didn’t even alter my build on the pts to suit the changes, and I run a build that sustains the bare minimum.

In longer fights you should notice the higher magicka drain. At least I use the skill more frequently than in pve.

Subversus

Change Strife

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

Strife is dead. They killed it.

Use force pulse, more damage and stronger passives (destruction staff). Really nice build variety btw.

Not in pvp, magblades will hardly feel the difference in pvp. I didn’t even alter my build on the pts to suit the changes, and I run a build that sustains the bare minimum.

In longer fights you should notice the higher magicka drain. At least I use the skill more frequently than in pve.

I suppose, I haven’t noticed it in duels and some lasted upwards of 5 minutes with crazy pressure from the opponent, pushing me in some very nasty magicka moments. I guess argonian is just that good.

Roger_kun

One less-cost morph + one more cost and more heal moprh

Juhasow wrote: »

Leave it with same cost as Force Shock. I wouldnt even mind if Impale cost would be increased on top of that to be on pair with Mages Fury cost.

Wut?
Magsorc with heavy attacks does same damage as magblade without heavy attacks. If magblade will damage with HA sustain, it lost DPS

Lucky28

One less-cost morph + one more cost and more heal moprh

Subversus wrote: »

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

Strife is dead. They killed it.

Use force pulse, more damage and stronger passives (destruction staff). Really nice build variety btw.

Not in pvp, magblades will hardly feel the difference in pvp. I didn’t even alter my build on the pts to suit the changes, and I run a build that sustains the bare minimum.

i'm not using it in PvP either. Crushing shocking is better. been using it since i heard about the cost increase.Crushing shock has more damage, the range interrupt is nice and it's smoother plus it's not reflect able. this change did great harm to my builds that implemented strife my more brawler type magblade builds, but even on them it's better to just get a new heal source and drop Swallow Soul for CS.

But that's fine. lets have no variety in Builds it's all good.

BohnT

Lucky28 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

Strife is dead. They killed it.

Use force pulse, more damage and stronger passives (destruction staff). Really nice build variety btw.

Not in pvp, magblades will hardly feel the difference in pvp. I didn’t even alter my build on the pts to suit the changes, and I run a build that sustains the bare minimum.

i'm not using it in PvP either. Crushing shocking is better. been using it since i heard about the cost increase.Crushing shock has more damage, the range interrupt is nice and it's smoother plus it's not reflect able. this change did great harm to my builds that implemented strife my more brawler type magblade builds, but even on them it's better to just get a new heal source and drop Swallow Soul for CS.

But that's fine. lets have no variety in Builds it's all good.

Strife is still superior.
All advantages of force pulse die in the process:
Unreflectable won't help you kill that DK spamming wings and if he really dies to FP spam he is surely too bad to keep wings up all the time or be a threat at all.
The extra damage is neglectable and in practise FP hits less often with it's full damage because you're chance is only: critchance^3 which is lower for critchance <100%.
And in PvP you want as much burst as you can get there is no time to wait for that triple crit.
The resource gain via destruction expert is so marginal that you can completely ignore it.
With the new interrupt mechanics a ranged interrupt is just the same as a skill without the interrupt. There are two conditions in pvp stunned or CC immune you can't interrupt in either of these.
Status effects:
you have minor maim on your enemy with magnb all the time
Burning is applied with fire glyph or LA/ HA
Minor vulnerability is accessable via CP and mirage

Strife also has multiple advantages over FP:
- Great HoT
- gives you ulti on cast every 4 seconds ---> more frequent bursts
- makes setting up your bar easier as you get the 8% magicka passive
- more healing via passives


Strife will still be the bread and butter spammable for magnbs in PvP.

Sparr0w

Well since the majority of NB sustain/healing/damage is based on how many light/heavy attacks you can get off in the space of 20 seconds I'd say heavy attacks will hurt NB quite a bit in PvE.

Plus this will hurt solo play too... meh looks like everyone will flock to the Psijic skill like & cry P2W

fuzzbunnies

Other

A 40% cost increase is unacceptable.
lol welcome to a tanks life (400%) block cost increase last patch
most tanks can only use the ranged taunt 2-3 times before having to drink a potion or cast balance, and lets be honest having to dump 90% if not all of your resource pool right off the bat does not feel good.

Subversus

Change Strife

fuzzbunnies wrote: »

A 40% cost increase is unacceptable.
lol welcome to a tanks life (400%) block cost increase last patch
most tanks can only use the ranged taunt 2-3 times before having to drink a potion or cast balance, and lets be honest having to dump 90% if not all of your resource pool right off the bat does not feel good.

40% increase after they *** us during morrowind is unacceptable indeed, but it’s far from game over for us magblades. Adapt and overcome!

Juhasow

Other

Roger_kun wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Leave it with same cost as Force Shock. I wouldnt even mind if Impale cost would be increased on top of that to be on pair with Mages Fury cost.

Wut?
Magsorc with heavy attacks does same damage as magblade without heavy attacks. If magblade will damage with HA sustain, it lost DPS

What is this 2017 ? Update Your infos. None sorc with heavy attack rotation will come even close to mag nb with LA rotation after off balance changes and mag nb will also win agaisnt magsorc with LA rotation.

NyassaV

Change Strife

BohnT wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

Strife is dead. They killed it.

Use force pulse, more damage and stronger passives (destruction staff). Really nice build variety btw.

Not in pvp, magblades will hardly feel the difference in pvp. I didn’t even alter my build on the pts to suit the changes, and I run a build that sustains the bare minimum.

i'm not using it in PvP either. Crushing shocking is better. been using it since i heard about the cost increase.Crushing shock has more damage, the range interrupt is nice and it's smoother plus it's not reflect able. this change did great harm to my builds that implemented strife my more brawler type magblade builds, but even on them it's better to just get a new heal source and drop Swallow Soul for CS.

But that's fine. lets have no variety in Builds it's all good.

Strife is still superior.
All advantages of force pulse die in the process:
Unreflectable won't help you kill that DK spamming wings and if he really dies to FP spam he is surely too bad to keep wings up all the time or be a threat at all.
The extra damage is neglectable and in practise FP hits less often with it's full damage because you're chance is only: critchance^3 which is lower for critchance <100%.
And in PvP you want as much burst as you can get there is no time to wait for that triple crit.
The resource gain via destruction expert is so marginal that you can completely ignore it.
With the new interrupt mechanics a ranged interrupt is just the same as a skill without the interrupt. There are two conditions in pvp stunned or CC immune you can't interrupt in either of these.
Status effects:
you have minor maim on your enemy with magnb all the time
Burning is applied with fire glyph or LA/ HA
Minor vulnerability is accessable via CP and mirage

Strife also has multiple advantages over FP:
- Great HoT
- gives you ulti on cast every 4 seconds ---> more frequent bursts
- makes setting up your bar easier as you get the 8% magicka passive
- more healing via passives


Strife will still be the bread and butter spammable for magnbs in PvP.

New Psijic spammable is actually better. A stronger HoT which doesn't come from damage done (that stuff doesn't do well in Cyro cuz battle spirit) would be better like refreshing path. Something many magblades in PvP have unlocked even if they don't currently use it

Dymence

The only change Strife needs imo, is for the HoT to be a fixed value and not related to the damage dealt. That way, it's always going to be useful even against people permablocking or with insane damage reduction stacking. Sorcs surge got this treatment ages ago and I expected Strife to follow suit not long after, but it never happened. The cost increase really isn't an issue though.