Belgium defines video game loot boxes as illegal gambling

Ackwalan

You know what happens when you ask a government to regulate your life? They take that inch and run a mile with it.

jedtb16_ESO

'can be traded outside of game'

how do you do that with crown crate contents?

Marginis

Ackwalan wrote: »

You know what happens when you ask a government to regulate your life? They take that inch and run a mile with it.

You know what happens when you ask a government to deregulate? Everyone else taking that inch and running a mile with it.

Charliff1966

Granamere wrote: »

I hope this is the beginning of the end for loot boxes in games!

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/25/17280440/belgium-video-game-loot-boxes-illegal-gambling

Wont happen. Block Belgium from being able to play said game will happen and continue with lootboxes in other countries. They earn billions because of it.

Kagukan

Self control. Play responsibly!

Eyro

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Eyro wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Granamere wrote: »

I hope this is the beginning of the end for loot boxes in games!

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/25/17280440/belgium-video-game-loot-boxes-illegal-gambling

Yes more government control because people can't control their spending.

I don’t really care if it is legal or not. I just want it to stop. I don’t go into a video game store hand the clerk 100 dollars and tell him just to pick me whatever he wants. And I don’t shop in games like that either. But there is stuff in the crates I would purchase for a flat price if offered.

So if it takes a couple laws to get the mount out into the open where I can buy it, who do I have to call?

I do think they need to make more items attainable either by gold, or quests, or achievements for sure. However, having some rare items in the crates is perfectly fine. If people have the cash to drop on them till they get that item then let them do it. I'm sorry i fyou feel like your character or in game life isn't complete cause you don't have a specific cosmetic item.

Did I say my life wouldn’t be complete with out these items? I am not sure exactly where you got that. Or were you just trying to insult me because we disagree?

fxeconomisteb17_ESO

These loot boxes are a vile trickery, made to increase the individual pricing of items, as one would need to buy more loot boxes until gets what he/she wants. Even the name is a deception. For god sake, call them gambling boxes or buy boxes, because loot boxes should be the proper name for Thieves Troves. These are small boxes, that you loot, hence the proper name loot boxes...

Am I not right about that, Zeni ?

woufff

Guarlet wrote: »

Also, Belgium is a tiny country. If a more major country like France, the UK, the US, etc, did this, you would start to see much more of an effect.

Thanks for the tiny country, I'm living there

But you're absolutley right, I personally consider it as a start in the European Union as Belgium is very often considered to be the EU laboratory

To my understanding so far, ESO lootboxes would anyway not fall under this law as there is no way (at least to my knowledge) to change the content of lootboxes to real money.

Charliff1966

Kagukan wrote: »

Self control. Play responsibly!

People need easy mode in RL as in games hence the outcry for help when a decision needs to be made. Do i pay bills or do i buy a crate....

Eyro

Ackwalan wrote: »

You know what happens when you ask a government to regulate your life? They take that inch and run a mile with it.

So it is sort of like trusting a corporation, only cheaper but with more police?

f047ys3v3n

I expect that one by one the European parliamentary countries will add consumer protections such as age limitations on these things and generally define them as gambling. Because, basically they are. They certainly take advantages of the same basic flaws in the human brain and certainly trigger the same addictive mechanisms.

Don't bet on it in the U.S. though. Consumer protections are not something the U.S. government has done much engaging in for a long time and I don't expect, in this two party system, with no statistically significant effect of public opinion, that to change.

Waffennacht

Strange thing is, USA made online poker sites illegal.... Yet fantasy football for money is legal....

.....

Why????

(Money, but that's besides the point)

cyclonus11

Waffennacht wrote: »

Strange thing is, USA made online poker sites illegal.... Yet fantasy football for money is legal....

.....

Why????

(Money, but that's besides the point)

Many states outlaw casinos, bingo parlors, etc. for money so that the only way to gamble is through the state government (lottery tickets, lotto, etc.). My state is super into OMG SOCIALISM IS BAAAAAD yet they do this.

Banana

If only they were based in Belgium

Tholian1

Just publish the odds of winning from each prize tier.

casinoguy

badmojo wrote: »

One could consider the crown price per crate as a bet, and the RNG is a game of chance, but you cant profit from crown crates.

Where does profit come from any definition of gambling?

purple-magicb16_ESO

ESO loot boxes won't be available to Belgian players. Same as those countries that can't take part in contests.

NewBlacksmurf

Just gonna put this out there....it would seem that places where it’s not legal, the customer participating would be more the concern so just don’t do it.

Unless it’s illegal for companies to offer it....doubt much will change for other places.

Graydon

I've yet to see anything worthwhile in the gambling boxes to spend money.

However, I do appreciate the folks who are spending wads of cash supporting this game. So I do hope loot boxes continue.

I will keep doing my part supporting this game by subscribing.

Blackbird_V

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you live in the states, call your congressmen. I called mine and the very pleasent lady I spoke to said she didnt know anything like this even existed and couldn't fathom how it was legal. I think this is frankly under or off the radar for a lot people actually making decisions.

I would have absolutely no issue with crown crates if drop rates were disclosed, just like any other form of gambling.

In China if a company sells Loot Boxes, Chests, Crates or anything within that area, then drop rates/odds HAVE to be revealed. So not outright illegal, but step in the right direction... since it will effect gamblers....


And please ZoS *** ban them already, considering I have no impulse control as soon as I get money to spend on this game I'll buy them out of impulse, with literally no restraint.

Not ashamed to admit it, but ZoS should be ashamed of allowing this disgusting *** continue. *** capitalistic money ***.

jedtb16_ESO

'Belgium defines video game loot boxes as illegal gambling'

no they didn't.

belgium and the netherlands have decided the loot boxes containing items that have value outside of the game are in violation of their respective gambling laws.

not the same thing at all.

so lets just leave aside the hysteria and look at the facts.

crown crate contents cannot be traded outside of the game. can't be traded at all...they are bound.

that may change with gifting, but that hasn't happened yet.

so the op should go and sit on the naughty step for spreading incomplete information.

Guarlet

Valkyn_Eltrys wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you live in the states, call your congressmen. I called mine and the very pleasent lady I spoke to said she didnt know anything like this even existed and couldn't fathom how it was legal. I think this is frankly under or off the radar for a lot people actually making decisions.

I would have absolutely no issue with crown crates if drop rates were disclosed, just like any other form of gambling.

In China if a company sells Loot Boxes, Chests, Crates or anything within that area, then drop rates/odds HAVE to be revealed. So not outright illegal, but step in the right direction... since it will effect gamblers....


And please ZoS *** ban them already, considering I have no impulse control as soon as I get money to spend on this game I'll buy them out of impulse, with literally no restraint.

Not ashamed to admit it, but ZoS should be ashamed of allowing this disgusting *** continue. *** capitalistic money ***.

So because you have no impulse control, ZOS is a [way too long string of expletives] and crates should be banned.

Ok.

JWKe

It’s Belgium.

ihazzit

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you live in the states, call your congressmen. I called mine and the very pleasent lady I spoke to said she didnt know anything like this even existed and couldn't fathom how it was legal. I think this is frankly under or off the radar for a lot people actually making decisions.

It's been noticed.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/us-senator-demands-review-of-loot-box-policies-citing-potential-harm/

However, @jedtb16_ESO is correct as in the Belgian study it was clearly stated, " These are the loot boxes in games where the in-game goods from the loot boxes are transferable." and further restated in the study,
" Loot boxes contravene the law if the in-game goods from the loot boxes
are transferable.
Loot boxes do not contravene the law if the in-game goods from the loot
boxes are not transferable."

It appears at the current moment that the ESO loot boxes are of the latter, however, the Belgian gaming authorities are attempting to start up a dialog with the gaming developers concerning the loot box issues so perhaps that may change.

jedtb16_ESO

ihazzit wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you live in the states, call your congressmen. I called mine and the very pleasent lady I spoke to said she didnt know anything like this even existed and couldn't fathom how it was legal. I think this is frankly under or off the radar for a lot people actually making decisions.

It's been noticed.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/us-senator-demands-review-of-loot-box-policies-citing-potential-harm/

However, @jedtb16_ESO is correct as in the Belgian study it was clearly stated, " These are the loot boxes in games where the in-game goods from the loot boxes are transferable." and further restated in the study,
" Loot boxes contravene the law if the in-game goods from the loot boxes
are transferable.
Loot boxes do not contravene the law if the in-game goods from the loot
boxes are not transferable."

It appears at the current moment that the ESO loot boxes are of the latter, however, the Belgian gaming authorities are attempting to start up a dialog with the gaming developers concerning the loot box issues so perhaps that may change.

it is really good to see that at least one other person has the nous to check the facts.

DieAlteHexe

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

ihazzit wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you live in the states, call your congressmen. I called mine and the very pleasent lady I spoke to said she didnt know anything like this even existed and couldn't fathom how it was legal. I think this is frankly under or off the radar for a lot people actually making decisions.

It's been noticed.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/us-senator-demands-review-of-loot-box-policies-citing-potential-harm/

However, @jedtb16_ESO is correct as in the Belgian study it was clearly stated, " These are the loot boxes in games where the in-game goods from the loot boxes are transferable." and further restated in the study,
" Loot boxes contravene the law if the in-game goods from the loot boxes
are transferable.
Loot boxes do not contravene the law if the in-game goods from the loot
boxes are not transferable."

It appears at the current moment that the ESO loot boxes are of the latter, however, the Belgian gaming authorities are attempting to start up a dialog with the gaming developers concerning the loot box issues so perhaps that may change.

it is really good to see that at least one other person has the nous to check the facts.

This info has been given out time and time and tiiiiiiime again and either gets ignored in favour of emotional rhetoric or challenged as being "just a first step to the utter removal thereof".

This is a pretty polarising issue, for sure.

jedtb16_ESO

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

ihazzit wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you live in the states, call your congressmen. I called mine and the very pleasent lady I spoke to said she didnt know anything like this even existed and couldn't fathom how it was legal. I think this is frankly under or off the radar for a lot people actually making decisions.

It's been noticed.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/us-senator-demands-review-of-loot-box-policies-citing-potential-harm/

However, @jedtb16_ESO is correct as in the Belgian study it was clearly stated, " These are the loot boxes in games where the in-game goods from the loot boxes are transferable." and further restated in the study,
" Loot boxes contravene the law if the in-game goods from the loot boxes
are transferable.
Loot boxes do not contravene the law if the in-game goods from the loot
boxes are not transferable."

It appears at the current moment that the ESO loot boxes are of the latter, however, the Belgian gaming authorities are attempting to start up a dialog with the gaming developers concerning the loot box issues so perhaps that may change.

it is really good to see that at least one other person has the nous to check the facts.

This info has been given out time and time and tiiiiiiime again and either gets ignored in favour of emotional rhetoric or challenged as being "just a first step to the utter removal thereof".

This is a pretty polarising issue, for sure.

i agree. i would prefer the game went to a sub with an 'open' store... i'e you can see what you are buying.

actually, just a sub but i doubt that would generate sufficient revenue.

Graydon

Valkyn_Eltrys wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you live in the states, call your congressmen. I called mine and the very pleasent lady I spoke to said she didnt know anything like this even existed and couldn't fathom how it was legal. I think this is frankly under or off the radar for a lot people actually making decisions.

I would have absolutely no issue with crown crates if drop rates were disclosed, just like any other form of gambling.

In China if a company sells Loot Boxes, Chests, Crates or anything within that area, then drop rates/odds HAVE to be revealed. So not outright illegal, but step in the right direction... since it will effect gamblers....


And please ZoS *** ban them already, considering I have no impulse control as soon as I get money to spend on this game I'll buy them out of impulse, with literally no restraint.

Not ashamed to admit it, but ZoS should be ashamed of allowing this disgusting *** continue. *** capitalistic money ***.

Let's pretend they do stop crown crates. Does that really solve your lack of "impulse control"?

Or should you just blame the next company and every other company that offers products that you cannot demonstrate responsibility and discipline?

DieAlteHexe

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

ihazzit wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you live in the states, call your congressmen. I called mine and the very pleasent lady I spoke to said she didnt know anything like this even existed and couldn't fathom how it was legal. I think this is frankly under or off the radar for a lot people actually making decisions.

It's been noticed.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/us-senator-demands-review-of-loot-box-policies-citing-potential-harm/

However, @jedtb16_ESO is correct as in the Belgian study it was clearly stated, " These are the loot boxes in games where the in-game goods from the loot boxes are transferable." and further restated in the study,
" Loot boxes contravene the law if the in-game goods from the loot boxes
are transferable.
Loot boxes do not contravene the law if the in-game goods from the loot
boxes are not transferable."

It appears at the current moment that the ESO loot boxes are of the latter, however, the Belgian gaming authorities are attempting to start up a dialog with the gaming developers concerning the loot box issues so perhaps that may change.

it is really good to see that at least one other person has the nous to check the facts.

This info has been given out time and time and tiiiiiiime again and either gets ignored in favour of emotional rhetoric or challenged as being "just a first step to the utter removal thereof".

This is a pretty polarising issue, for sure.

i agree. i would prefer the game went to a sub with an 'open' store... i'e you can see what you are buying.

actually, just a sub but i doubt that would generate sufficient revenue.

As would I...mostly. I do have to admit certain weaknesses, but hell, I lived without all this store business for nigh unto 20 years so whilst I might whinge a bit, I'd soldier on.

Runefang

So are Pokémon trading cards now illegal in Belgium?