Solution to PvP Perma-Block builds

tannips

ak_pvp wrote: »

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tannips wrote: »

The thing people don't seem to realize is that the useless perma block tanks who can't deal damage aren't the issue. As mentioned, people can just build ult on them or ignore them cause they're not going to accomplish anything. The problem here is mainly the Mag DKs that can play with their right mouse button taped down and still deal damage.

"Forever and ever" permablocking may not exist in the game at the moment, but it's pretty easy to get close to it given that DKs get reduced block cost + resource return from using ult. Coupled with Mag DKs being able to focus all their stamina for this purpose, it gets pretty annoying. I don't have any solutions to offer that don't penalize blocking entirely or that don't result in a DK nerf which has happened quite a bit IMO (at least in regards to Stam DK).

That said, what makes these permablock Mag DKs such a pain to deal with is the fact that so many of their abilities heal them. Whip? Heals. Engulfing Flames? Heals. Shattering Rocks? Heals. Cauterize? Heals. Deep Breath/Draw Essence? Heals.I'm not going to call for a nerf to Mag DK as a whole, but I always die a little inside when Mag DKs get this persecution complex that their class is so weak that they need to resort to permablocking in order to be viable or not die. If a significant amount of one's class abilities deal damage and come with a built in heal and people still can't survive without crutching on permablocking then that's a L2P issue. Sure, you can make the same argument about people who fight permablock Mag DKs, but not everyone plays a stamblade that can fear people out of block or runs bleeds or wants to 5v1 someone.

Understanding that just because something is strong doesn't mean it needs a nerf is one thing, but playing dumb and acting like nothing is even the slightest bit broken about this spec is another.

Build in heals don't mean *** when you have no class defense. no worth while slotted ability wings being trash and no mobility. Block is the only defense that DK synergises with, if you want to go shields, which is kinda DK meta now, you may as well play another class who can stack shields better or with other defenses. If you do want to use block a lot, you sacrifice damage like mad, if you are dying to a blockDK, well....

Seems like a L2P issue to me.

Ironic to see StamDK calling MagDK overpowererd when a few patches back 7th legion gods ruled. Only recently was that class gutted, wheras MDK took Ls since 1.6, with the majority of buffs either reverting nerfs, or very slightly editing mediocre abilities that are half useless anyway.

You clearly didn't read all of what I said lol. Are class heals not defense now? I guess by that logic then magplars don't have any defense either. Mag DK has options available to them that don't involve blocking. Like you said, they can easily use shields too. That's pretty much what every magicka spec I've seen runs. Trying to argue that if you're going to use shields you shouldn't be playing Mag DK because other classes can also use shields just doesn't make sense.

You get TONS and I do mean TONS of heals as a Mag DK. You get a fair amount of defense just by playing offense. Sure, permablock builds might not be able to get super crazy burst, but in general DK has never been a very bursty class like NBs/Sorcs.

ak_pvp

tannips wrote: »

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ak_pvp wrote: »

tannips wrote: »

The thing people don't seem to realize is that the useless perma block tanks who can't deal damage aren't the issue. As mentioned, people can just build ult on them or ignore them cause they're not going to accomplish anything. The problem here is mainly the Mag DKs that can play with their right mouse button taped down and still deal damage.

"Forever and ever" permablocking may not exist in the game at the moment, but it's pretty easy to get close to it given that DKs get reduced block cost + resource return from using ult. Coupled with Mag DKs being able to focus all their stamina for this purpose, it gets pretty annoying. I don't have any solutions to offer that don't penalize blocking entirely or that don't result in a DK nerf which has happened quite a bit IMO (at least in regards to Stam DK).

That said, what makes these permablock Mag DKs such a pain to deal with is the fact that so many of their abilities heal them. Whip? Heals. Engulfing Flames? Heals. Shattering Rocks? Heals. Cauterize? Heals. Deep Breath/Draw Essence? Heals.I'm not going to call for a nerf to Mag DK as a whole, but I always die a little inside when Mag DKs get this persecution complex that their class is so weak that they need to resort to permablocking in order to be viable or not die. If a significant amount of one's class abilities deal damage and come with a built in heal and people still can't survive without crutching on permablocking then that's a L2P issue. Sure, you can make the same argument about people who fight permablock Mag DKs, but not everyone plays a stamblade that can fear people out of block or runs bleeds or wants to 5v1 someone.

Understanding that just because something is strong doesn't mean it needs a nerf is one thing, but playing dumb and acting like nothing is even the slightest bit broken about this spec is another.

Build in heals don't mean *** when you have no class defense. no worth while slotted ability wings being trash and no mobility. Block is the only defense that DK synergises with, if you want to go shields, which is kinda DK meta now, you may as well play another class who can stack shields better or with other defenses. If you do want to use block a lot, you sacrifice damage like mad, if you are dying to a blockDK, well....

Seems like a L2P issue to me.

Ironic to see StamDK calling MagDK overpowererd when a few patches back 7th legion gods ruled. Only recently was that class gutted, wheras MDK took Ls since 1.6, with the majority of buffs either reverting nerfs, or very slightly editing mediocre abilities that are half useless anyway.

You clearly didn't read all of what I said lol. Are class heals not defense now? I guess by that logic then magplars don't have any defense either. Mag DK has options available to them that don't involve blocking. Like you said, they can easily use shields too. That's pretty much what every magicka spec I've seen runs. Trying to argue that if you're going to use shields you shouldn't be playing Mag DK because other classes can also use shields just doesn't make sense.

You get TONS and I do mean TONS of heals as a Mag DK. You get a fair amount of defense just by playing offense. Sure, permablock builds might not be able to get super crazy burst, but in general DK has never been a very bursty class like NBs/Sorcs.

Magplar has purge as their active class defense, along with the heals they have.

Heals aren't a defense since it doesn't prevent damage in any way. Any class can get decent heals, but on top of that an active class defense that dictates their play style. Even escape mobility skills count, since it lowers Inc damage.

Shields come in because if you run a shield, toy use nine if your DK intended synergising defense (block or wings, former not compatible, latter trash) with it. So it's less effective than in a warden say which has equal passive healing, and then shimmering shield on top.

On burst, a DK can get a silly high level of it if running staff+light, and sacrifices it in heavy/s&b which is OK. But that takes me back to the point that its either sacrificing defense for burst that for example a Light MNB doesn't have to, or sacrificing burst, so the permablock DKs that deal tones of damage don't exist.

Oxalias

If anything needs to put into the question it should be why zos still has unmitigatable damage in the game :thinking:

IZZEFlameLash

Oxalias wrote: »

If anything needs to put into the question it should be why zos still has unmitigatable damage in the game :thinking:

You must be a necromancer, for you have used thread necromancy spell. Must be one of the Worms...

Nerftheforums

Zelos wrote: »

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Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hurr durr shieldbreaker should proc on blocking targets. I don't want to be bothered with counterplay hurr durr

I see so this is what happens when your brain cells start to die, if you read the name of the set it will tell you what it does. Ill spell it out for you anyway SHIELD-BREAKER, hopefully you got it. This is to add counter play to those who just shield up and block everything, you have reactive armor that even if you CC someone like a magplar you wont even kill them, there is too much cancer people can build for that makes it too difficult when you are fighting 6 or 7 other people I wouldnt expect you to understand that though.

No, this is not to add counter-play.

This is there so you can ''counter'' both Dks , wardens, templars and sorcs with your garbage stamblade. I can see through your BS.

Shield-breaker is a remnant from the procmania era. If anything it should get a rework or a massive nerf because no set itself should %100 shut down a class.

And I love how you put 1vX as a defence. Guess what dude? I'm playing both stam and mag Dk in PC EU, sotha sil. Almost every fight is we have in there is outnumbered, and if your idea was to implemented I wouldn't even be able to block ever again. But I guess you didn't even thinked of the possibility of a solo DK/templar player.

Wow calm down, shieldbreaker isnt a remnant from proc era, its rarely seen in cryodiil in fact I never see it that much at all in cyrodiil, I can see through you instantly you are just another cancer player stuck in their ways. Im not here to talk "***" on you but you already seem so hostile towards it that is how I know your a cancer player who doesnt want change. Its a Item set and I HIGHLY doubt people will drop everything and go buy and equip it. It also doesnt have to deal the full 2600 oblivion damage but half to blocking targets.

I can't laugh enough to this. Clearly you have no idea of what you are talking about or are in a terribly bad faith. Git gud boi, then talk.