Solution to PvP Perma-Block builds

Zelos

PvP perma-block builds are something we can all agree to be the most annoying thing in the game as a pvp play style. Blocking reduces the amount of damage you take by quite abit and some builds are able to dish out insane damage while being able to block up and heal all the way back to their full health of 35k just by blocking up. Almost all classes can do this very effectively.

With the recent blocking changes perma blockers took a hit but some people are still able to do this with the shield ult and regen stats. Perma-Blockers are only a issue in PvP and I wouldn`t want blocking to take a hit to PvE either as it will be harder and harder to tank in PvE.

So how can we get around and make Perma-Blockers be punished when they do this?

Well my thought was to update a certain set already in the game which its name should give away, which is Shieldbreaker. I think "Shieldbreaker" should work on enemy PLAYERS who are also blocking instead of JUST damage shields since it should be able to combat both. This gives players a chance to combat Perma-Blockers without nerfing the PvE aspect into the ground and give players the options to combat it instead of give it to everyone. So players 1vXing or going against great odds are able to kill Perma-Blockers inside a zerg faster and punish those who just stand there and holding block. When a player blocking hears the Shieldbreaker sound he or she should become more strategic about when they block and say to themselves "hey I should create some space to recover and not just stand here taking all the damage while out healing it all because I'm blocking". People will say that Blocking targets will get melted but they wont as the Shieldbreakers Oblivion damage gets through but all your other attacks wont, this will change the brain dead play style of just blocking up to heal and you should get moving and LoS to get away.

What if Zerglings start to use the set and IM trying to 1vX?
Well like i said you have to take a little more skill into account and not just stand there healing everything, you have to be able to see who it is and LoS them to get away making 1vX encounters more dynamic and intense to play through.

What About people dueling with the set in stormhaven?
Well people blocking should have give and take, if you are going to block YOU WILL STILL BE TAKING DAMAGE, but less ability damage. Once you stop blocking the addition damage is gone, this will train people not to rely so heavily on blocking up and out healing everything and be able to come straight back in with a leap or something and get all resources back and deal immense amount of damage.

This wont be breaking the game as it gives the OPTION to players to kill perma-blockers easier but you sacrifice a whole 5 piece set to do it, and it wouldnt work on people not blocking. So without having to nerf blocking as a whole into the ground making it harder on PvE to do certain things when its only in PvP where the problem is.

I 1vX alot on my DC Stamblade Aeonhack, and I run into people who can hold block and dish out insane damage or even 1 shots while I'm not even damaging them and they have a infinite stam pool sometimes on magicka or stamina builds.

To sum it up I think this would be a positive change, although we cant make cyrodiil perfect but punishing one less annoying and useless play style would in my opinion have a positive outcome as a whole.

If ZOS is reading this I think you should take it into consideration as there is alot of complaints about Perma Blockers and this might just be a solution to it.
Let me know what you guys think

Sharee

Werewolf works wonders against permablockers. Give it a try

Vapirko

Get out your bleeds. Line up your dots, hit fear and burn them down. If that doesn’t work after a time then chances are they have too little damage to do anything an dtou might as well ignore. Mag DKs are the only permablock builds I runninto that can still do decent damage.

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER

Every class got a unblockable cc. Permablocking isnt a problem anymore. Apply dots/pressure and cc on cooldown.

Aliyavana

Try no cp

coplannb16_ESO

No way. Shieldbraker is already a very deadly set versus damage shield user which is needed as a hard counter especially for mSorcs.

I play no CP AvA, and I only see very few shield-users at all. Mostly other dragonknights. All I see is stamWarden 2H/Bow, Sorcs, loads of magNBs griefing people doing quests for boxes and of course also stamNBs.

the only few lonely souls bothering with a shield are DKs and they have reason for that. low damage / no execute, no speed/escape mechanism and so on.

if you are one of the top skilled players you can pull off victories with a DK even against other good players, but as someone else said in another thread, why bother? wining with a DK is wining a war of attrition of outplaying your enemy and lining everything up to kill the enemy before he heals back up to full, shields again, bolt escapes away or vanishes while trying to not get overwhelmed by superior damage, pressure and burst.
That guy switched over to Sorc and was like "omg, I can kill people like really fast and if not just get away".

dead class because Wrobel says we are only tanks...

Qbiken

Sharee wrote: »

Werewolf works wonders against permablockers. Give it a try

He´s right you know

Zelos

I dont want to build around just being able to kill perma blockers because it wont be as viable in open world. Ive had this Idea for a long time now and people I tell it to tell me it would be a great solution and or a good way to put pressure on these builds and i see them everywhere on the PC NA.

Ragnarock41

hurr durr shieldbreaker should proc on blocking targets. I don't want to be bothered with counterplay hurr durr

Heka Cain

I did not read your post!

themaddaedra

coplannb16_ESO wrote: »

No way. Shieldbraker is already a very deadly set versus damage shield user which is needed as a hard counter especially for mSorcs.

I play no CP AvA, and I only see very few shield-users at all. Mostly other dragonknights. All I see is stamWarden 2H/Bow, Sorcs, loads of magNBs griefing people doing quests for boxes and of course also stamNBs.

the only few lonely souls bothering with a shield are DKs and they have reason for that. low damage / no execute, no speed/escape mechanism and so on.

if you are one of the top skilled players you can pull off victories with a DK even against other good players, but as someone else said in another thread, why bother? wining with a DK is wining a war of attrition of outplaying your enemy and lining everything up to kill the enemy before he heals back up to full, shields again, bolt escapes away or vanishes while trying to not get overwhelmed by superior damage, pressure and burst.
That guy switched over to Sorc and was like "omg, I can kill people like really fast and if not just get away".

dead class because Wrobel says we are only tanks...

That couldn't be further from truth lol. DKs got the most powerful dots which are not on ground, directly on enemy and they also have a sh!tton of cc. Place your dots on an enemy other than templars with purify and they are most likely rip. Unless they are using purge, which is kind of unaffordable in cost.

If you think DKS are week, just l2p. You don't need to be the best to cc and dot down people while having ridiculous damage mitigation.

Carbonised

Maybe we can stop calling a legitimate defensive mechanism, and for some classes the only defense they actually have, for perma-blocking. There is no perma-blocking. Just because a person blocks some of your incoming damage does not make it perma-blocking. No on can sustain prolonged blocking without gimping their damage severely.

All I see here is someone who is extremely sour that not everyone he meets in PvP is a glass canon that can be taken out with a 1-2 combo.

Ragnarock41

themaddaedra wrote: »

coplannb16_ESO wrote: »

No way. Shieldbraker is already a very deadly set versus damage shield user which is needed as a hard counter especially for mSorcs.

I play no CP AvA, and I only see very few shield-users at all. Mostly other dragonknights. All I see is stamWarden 2H/Bow, Sorcs, loads of magNBs griefing people doing quests for boxes and of course also stamNBs.

the only few lonely souls bothering with a shield are DKs and they have reason for that. low damage / no execute, no speed/escape mechanism and so on.

if you are one of the top skilled players you can pull off victories with a DK even against other good players, but as someone else said in another thread, why bother? wining with a DK is wining a war of attrition of outplaying your enemy and lining everything up to kill the enemy before he heals back up to full, shields again, bolt escapes away or vanishes while trying to not get overwhelmed by superior damage, pressure and burst.
That guy switched over to Sorc and was like "omg, I can kill people like really fast and if not just get away".

dead class because Wrobel says we are only tanks...

That couldn't be further from truth lol. DKs got the most powerful dots which are not on ground, directly on enemy and they also have a sh!tton of cc. Place your dots on an enemy other than templars with purify and they are most likely rip. Unless they are using purge, which is kind of unaffordable in cost.

If you think DKS are week, just l2p. You don't need to be the best to cc and dot down people while having ridiculous damage mitigation.

explain to me how are DK dots stronger than bleeds? or how is petrify stronger than rune cage again?

Zelos

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hurr durr shieldbreaker should proc on blocking targets. I don't want to be bothered with counterplay hurr durr

I see so this is what happens when your brain cells start to die, if you read the name of the set it will tell you what it does. Ill spell it out for you anyway SHIELD-BREAKER, hopefully you got it. This is to add counter play to those who just shield up and block everything, you have reactive armor that even if you CC someone like a magplar you wont even kill them, there is too much cancer people can build for that makes it too difficult when you are fighting 6 or 7 other people I wouldnt expect you to understand that though.

Ragnarock41

Zelos wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hurr durr shieldbreaker should proc on blocking targets. I don't want to be bothered with counterplay hurr durr

I see so this is what happens when your brain cells start to die, if you read the name of the set it will tell you what it does. Ill spell it out for you anyway SHIELD-BREAKER, hopefully you got it. This is to add counter play to those who just shield up and block everything, you have reactive armor that even if you CC someone like a magplar you wont even kill them, there is too much cancer people can build for that makes it too difficult when you are fighting 6 or 7 other people I wouldnt expect you to understand that though.

No, this is not to add counter-play.

This is there so you can ''counter'' both Dks , wardens, templars and sorcs with your garbage stamblade. I can see through your BS.

Shield-breaker is a remnant from the procmania era. If anything it should get a rework or a massive nerf because no set itself should %100 shut down a class.

And I love how you put 1vX as a defence. Guess what dude? I'm playing both stam and mag Dk in PC EU, sotha sil. Almost every fight is we have in there is outnumbered, and if your idea was to implemented I wouldn't even be able to block ever again. But I guess you didn't even thinked of the possibility of a solo DK/templar player.

Zelos

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hurr durr shieldbreaker should proc on blocking targets. I don't want to be bothered with counterplay hurr durr

I see so this is what happens when your brain cells start to die, if you read the name of the set it will tell you what it does. Ill spell it out for you anyway SHIELD-BREAKER, hopefully you got it. This is to add counter play to those who just shield up and block everything, you have reactive armor that even if you CC someone like a magplar you wont even kill them, there is too much cancer people can build for that makes it too difficult when you are fighting 6 or 7 other people I wouldnt expect you to understand that though.

No, this is not to add counter-play.

This is there so you can ''counter'' both Dks , wardens, templars and sorcs with your garbage stamblade. I can see through your BS.

Shield-breaker is a remnant from the procmania era. If anything it should get a rework or a massive nerf because no set itself should %100 shut down a class.

And I love how you put 1vX as a defence. Guess what dude? I'm playing both stam and mag Dk in PC EU, sotha sil. Almost every fight is we have in there is outnumbered, and if your idea was to implemented I wouldn't even be able to block ever again. But I guess you didn't even thinked of the possibility of a solo DK/templar player.

Wow calm down, shieldbreaker isnt a remnant from proc era, its rarely seen in cryodiil in fact I never see it that much at all in cyrodiil, I can see through you instantly you are just another cancer player stuck in their ways. Im not here to talk "***" on you but you already seem so hostile towards it that is how I know your a cancer player who doesnt want change. Its a Item set and I HIGHLY doubt people will drop everything and go buy and equip it. It also doesnt have to deal the full 2600 oblivion damage but half to blocking targets.

FloppyTouch

I disagree most annoying play style is the stealth spammers that hit run away hit run away hit run away.

Or dodge stealth dodge stealth ult burst combo dodge stealth dodge stealth ult burst combo now that's really annoying play style.

Nermy

Zelos wrote: »

PvP perma-block builds are something we can all agree to be the most annoying thing in the game as a pvp play style.

We just build our ultimates up on them and then run off and leave them to their little games.

Zordrage

Zelos wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hurr durr shieldbreaker should proc on blocking targets. I don't want to be bothered with counterplay hurr durr

I see so this is what happens when your brain cells start to die, if you read the name of the set it will tell you what it does. Ill spell it out for you anyway SHIELD-BREAKER, hopefully you got it. This is to add counter play to those who just shield up and block everything, you have reactive armor that even if you CC someone like a magplar you wont even kill them, there is too much cancer people can build for that makes it too difficult when you are fighting 6 or 7 other people I wouldnt expect you to understand that though.

No, this is not to add counter-play.

This is there so you can ''counter'' both Dks , wardens, templars and sorcs with your garbage stamblade. I can see through your BS.

Shield-breaker is a remnant from the procmania era. If anything it should get a rework or a massive nerf because no set itself should %100 shut down a class.

And I love how you put 1vX as a defence. Guess what dude? I'm playing both stam and mag Dk in PC EU, sotha sil. Almost every fight is we have in there is outnumbered, and if your idea was to implemented I wouldn't even be able to block ever again. But I guess you didn't even thinked of the possibility of a solo DK/templar player.

Wow calm down, shieldbreaker isnt a remnant from proc era, its rarely seen in cryodiil in fact I never see it that much at all in cyrodiil, I can see through you instantly you are just another cancer player stuck in their ways. Im not here to talk "***" on you but you already seem so hostile towards it that is how I know your a cancer player who doesnt want change. Its a Item set and I HIGHLY doubt people will drop everything and go buy and equip it. It also doesnt have to deal the full 2600 oblivion damage but half to blocking targets.

Checkmath

i think OPs idea is garbage. nobody uses shieldbreaker atm, only some nightblades sour enough to slot it to burst down sorcs, because they cant crit through their shields. any other user of that set is a zergling and we dont need to give zerglings any more power in that game, since zerging already is the way to go for most players to kill something and accomplish something in pvp. mean there was a discussion about shieldbreaker recently, where even a nightblade was mentioned, which runs and stealths away from fights to just slot shieldbreaker, when facing somebody with a shield. where is the point into that?
so giving this set a bonus to a playstyle, which normally isnt even dangerous, is just stupid. permablocking in pvp normally is used by tanks, which absorb the damage of the enemy group, while friends ca dish out some damage from behind. we actually have to reward the taank for doing so and not the zerg focusing the tank. also 1vX is already hard in the game, this change doesnt help anything there, since blocking is a very much needed mechanism for some classes to even be able to 1vX.

Lex7xeL

PvP perma-stealth, perma-evasion, perma-healing and perma-... are something we can all agree to be the most annoying thing in the game as a pvp play style

Feanor

There is nothing wrong with builds that are centered around block as their primary defense. They just shouldn’t be able to do as much damage as a glass cannon build and have considerably less sustain as a build centered around Regen.

CP is the culprit if anything, as always.

Zinaroth

Zelos wrote: »

PvP perma-block builds are something we can all agree to be the most annoying thing in the game as a pvp play style.

Nah I hate nightblades killing me in stealth opener burst more - and it's why I have been forced into a very defensive build.

I main a Stamplar so I am not playing a permablock build, just defensive.

Haven't had issues with permablock builds in this game for many years and I think ZOS has made some good changes to the point where a permablock build (or atleast a very-long-time-block build) has such little damage that I can either kill them over an extended period of time or simply drain them of ressources.

As I said I do however main Stamplar and Jabs works wonders for draining stamina off people blocking aswell as getting damage through block via the passive.

Checkmath

actually permablockers will see some "nerf" to their damage with SS, since most of the light and heavy attacks will get buffed. so no additional damage to the blocking ones. just leave them alone and focus on the glass canon guy behind him first

Enslaved

Zelos wrote: »

PvP perma-block builds are something we can all agree to be the most annoying thing in the game as a pvp play style.

No, we dont.
Most annoying thing in PvP are destro trains. All who agree with you on this are players with L2P issues, or players that invest little to no effort and expect to kill all in PvP.

Qbiken

I think we´ve to make a difference between tanky "healbots" (which OP seems to have issues with) and "permablockers". Permablockers haven´t been a thing since One-Tamriel. Back then it was often a stamina DK stacking a lot of weapon-damage and many sources of healing. The issues people had back then was the fact that they could stay tanky and deal a lot of damage, which in my opinion should be possible if you know how to make a proper build for it (don´t know who came up with the rule that you shouldn´t be able to be tanky and deal damage at the same time.....). This was possible due to a mixture of exploiting certain mechanics + abusing certain sets that were clearly functioning in an non-intended way. With those things fixed, permablocking literally died on the spot. I still see a few console players running these permablocking DK´s with some success, but it´s not as impressive as it used to be.

Regarding healbots, the issue lies elsewhere. Here the issue is a combination of:
- Overperforming mitigation (not from blocking). Check this thread out for more understanding on how much you can actually mitigate :https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator#latest
- Overperforming healing

A healbot can´t afford to permablock. If they do they´ll have burned their stamina pool very quickly and next time they´ll get stunned they´re dead (since they can´t CC-break). However, in situations where you face multiple healbots and don´t have enough sustained pressure, it´s better to just call it or gather up with some people to take them down. That often results in small-scalers coming to the forums complaining that small-scale is dead and that this game only promotes "zerglings".

Personally I´ve nothing against shieldbreaker as a set. In general I´ve nothing against hardcounters. I can understand why people dislike it (even though I cringe everytime I see rants about "muh skill" when bashing about certain sets). But I don't think adding another hardcounter is a good solution. There´re already many tools out there to deal with these tanky builds:

* Bleed-damage: Maybe the most efficient one. People who want bleed-damage nerfed don´t realise the new heavy armor meta it would create.

* Poisons: How cheese you may find them, ignoring certain tools is just gimping yourself.

* Numbers: If you find certain people difficult to kill on your own, get more people. And if that doesn´t work, start analysing your build to see what you can improve.

Maulkin

Excellent idea. Let me expand on it...

It should also do 2.6k oblivion damage to anyone actively or passively dodging an attack and preventing them from entering invisibility for the next 3 seconds after proc’ing the damage.

Because fark it, If we’re gonna have a set countering 2 builds, then why not 3-4. Why not all? What’s left? High HoT heavy builds that don’t block? Well then, if the light attack doesn’t proc damage due to being dodged, blocked or shielded.. it should apply Major Defile instead then.

Awesomo. That settles it. Just rename it to PvP Breaker. Because the “I’m not gud enough for PvP so I’ll wear this set” set, sounds too long.

PS. I want a light armour version of it, with relevant 2-4 piece bonuses as well.

Checkmath

Maulkin wrote: »

Excellent idea. Let me expand on it...

It should also do 2.6k oblivion damage to anyone actively or passively dodging an attack and preventing them from entering invisibility for the next 3 seconds after proc’ing the damage.

Because fark it, If we’re gonna have a set countering 2 builds, then why not 3-4. Why not all? What’s left? High HoT heavy builds that don’t block? Well then, if the light attack doesn’t proc damage due to being dodged, blocked or shielded.. it should apply Major Defile instead then.

Awesomo. That settles it. Just rename it to PvP Breaker. Because the “I’m not gud enough for PvP so I’ll wear this set” set, sounds too long.

PS. I want a light armor version with relevant 2-4 piece bonuses of it as well.

torugs pact with oblivion enchant or knightslayer with lightning staff would be a good base to begin with. now add yours and OP's suggestion to them and you got it

Skander

Walk away

Tarrocan

I dont see any Problems with perma blocking, maybe you should think the same. BTW Looking forward to the next Patch

WillhelmBlack

Hahaha... no.