usmguy1234 wrote: »
WuffyCerulei wrote: »I feel one of the morphs of the new skill, Time Stop, will be very interesting with ball groups. The morph, Borrowed Time, negates 5000 points of healing received if the target is stunned. This should screw up ball groups a bit.
I wonder if all the people claiming “All you have to do is...” to run in a ball group have ever actually done it with any success. I’m guessing no.
My suggestion to them is to ask one of these groups if you can play with them sometime to see what it’s all about. If you keep an open mind about it, I’m sure you’ll see there’s a lot more going on than just spamming skills.
And then maybe, just maybe, you’ll come away with some knowledge of how your enemy operates to be able to defeat them instead of complaining about ball groups on the forums.
Everyone who thinks leash is the answer to ball groups, you're wrong. I've been using Warden traps, the major maim morph even, on them since Morrowind. They figured it out a long time ago.
Most pop immovability pops like candy, especially on their push. Even if you do yank one, it's just one dodge roll to get back to their heal spam zone.
Everyone who thinks leash is the answer to ball groups, you're wrong. I've been using Warden traps, the major maim morph even, on them since Morrowind. They figured it out a long time ago.
Most pop immovability pops like candy, especially on their push. Even if you do yank one, it's just one dodge roll to get back to their heal spam zone.
Everyone who thinks leash is the answer to ball groups, you're wrong. I've been using Warden traps, the major maim morph even, on them since Morrowind. They figured it out a long time ago.
Sorry but I heard my favorite streamer complain about ball groups so it must be true. Stop spreading your lies.Sandman929 wrote: »Sometimes running a raid, I don't even talk. Every knows to just stack on crown and spam stuff, so it's super easy. Honestly, it's ridiculous that this misconception about an organized raid or "ball group" still exists, this is the definition of willful ignorance.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Vilestride wrote: »It's intended and teamwork should always be a strong strategy.
I like the idea of teamwork, but not much strategy is involved in just stacking up on crown and spamming heals and ultimates.
DaveMoeDee wrote: »Or maybe this is purely subjective, as some people like traveling in groups that strictly follow efficient tactics to gain objectives and some want more interactive combat.
How about a debuff of sorts for a group of 12 or more. Less healing effectiveness, less DPS , higher ulti cost. Doesn't have to be all of those, and it's ONLY while in Cyrodiil. Even IC wouldn't count for this, because we all think IC is just PvE with overland PvP ability to attack players anyway, right?
I used to run in a large very tight knit guild. Builds and abilities handed down from the officers and leaders etc. It actually can be very stressful listening for certain voices in comms, and acting on it with all the info flowing around. I won't explain what happened to that guild, and I left the game for over 6 months after it. I've recently come back and even with AE caps gone, it seriously seems like NOTHING has changed in PvP. There's still groups running around like we used to, and depending on the time of day and what faction your on, there really isn't much to stop them unless another guild comes up doing the same thing, or the pugs just eventually overwhelm them. Something really needs to change, and drastically.
How about a debuff of sorts for a group of 12 or more. Less healing effectiveness, less DPS , higher ulti cost. Doesn't have to be all of those, and it's ONLY while in Cyrodiil. Even IC wouldn't count for this, because we all think IC is just PvE with overland PvP ability to attack players anyway, right?
I used to run in a large very tight knit guild. Builds and abilities handed down from the officers and leaders etc. It actually can be very stressful listening for certain voices in comms, and acting on it with all the info flowing around. I won't explain what happened to that guild, and I left the game for over 6 months after it. I've recently come back and even with AE caps gone, it seriously seems like NOTHING has changed in PvP. There's still groups running around like we used to, and depending on the time of day and what faction your on, there really isn't much to stop them unless another guild comes up doing the same thing, or the pugs just eventually overwhelm them. Something really needs to change, and drastically.
Like some experienced and active players mentioned already in this thread, it is very easy to counter a ballgroup, no matter its size and destroy them in a few seconds with only 6players. It's just a matter of situation awareness, positioning, patience and timing. You proc the earthgores focus targetting one player with timed shalks / proxs. Then you go back in with shalks, proxs, dawnbreakers, destro ults, steel tornadoes, negate. rip ballgroup
We need something to discourage faction stacking.
Players should spread out more and have a multitude of mini fights for various objectives around cyrodiil. Even the large unused areas on the map.
We need something to discourage faction stacking.
Players should spread out more and have a multitude of mini fights for various objectives around cyrodiil. Even the large unused areas on the map.
We need something to discourage faction stacking.
Players should spread out more and have a multitude of mini fights for various objectives around cyrodiil. Even the large unused areas on the map.
Players should do whatever they want to. And we definitely don't need any rules that say you can't do this or that. It's an open game that allows freedom to choose and should stay that way.
IxSTALKERxI wrote: »IxSTALKERxI wrote: »It's not needed? If you can't kill a large group of players with the changes already made, then you will never be able to kill them.
After recent AoE cap removal, in theory a 24 man is no stronger than a 6 man survivability wise, with the exception of retreating maneuvers and having access to a higher amount of negates. Other than that the only advantage they have is more damage / higher sustain. It's never been easier in ESO history to wipe a raid than it is now.
ya what? You proceed to list every advantage they have, even excluding healing and support tools which matter, yet suggest they are no stronger than a six man? I'm confused.
I said they are no stronger than a 6 man from a survivability perspective. As in, the amount of damage required to kill 6 players is the same to kill 24 players. And this thread was talking about increasing the damage.
We need something to discourage faction stacking.
Players should spread out more and have a multitude of mini fights for various objectives around cyrodiil. Even the large unused areas on the map.
Players should do whatever they want to. And we definitely don't need any rules that say you can't do this or that. It's an open game that allows freedom to choose and should stay that way.
Right so just 40v40 back and forth between bleaks/ales for hours like the sheep you are.
Encourage actual gameplay that isn’t hinging on numbers but players learning how to kill and play at a smaller scale.
But hey, Why not just keep lightning heavy attacking your way down to ales with the zerg. You are doing a lot.
I’m not against the damage a ball group can do.
They’re designed to fight unorganized zergs. They’re good at it. Good for them.
But if you’ve got a ton of Magicka users standing on top of each other, they need to be vulnerable. There needs to be a counter.
That counter SHOULD be a coordinate ult dump by a highly mobile Stam team that hits and runs.
Sadly this wasn’t very easy to do before because the AOE caps reduced the damage that most players in the group took.
Then they removed the AOE caps, but added earthgore.
Don’t get me wrong - I think many of the ball groups are very skilled and organized. But at present, due to earthgore, stacking directly on top of each other grants them significant protection. That shouldn’t be the case. Clumping up should make them vulnerable to DBOS / AOE / negate dump from a mobile team.
It’s still strange to me that this is the only game where an organized group of Magicka users tries to close the gap / push, while equally coordinated Stam groups try to kite and pick people off with burst dmg. That is backwards!
When earthgore goes, they’ll have to rely on remembrance (since resto ult is technically single target and won’t save a group from a 1s burst). But remembrance can’t be cast while moving... so there’s a trade off. The ball groups that are extremely organized and skilled will still do very well, but the removal of earthgore opens up the window for counter-play, which is sorely needed.
Micah_Bayer wrote: »IxSTALKERxI wrote: »IxSTALKERxI wrote: »It's not needed? If you can't kill a large group of players with the changes already made, then you will never be able to kill them.
After recent AoE cap removal, in theory a 24 man is no stronger than a 6 man survivability wise, with the exception of retreating maneuvers and having access to a higher amount of negates. Other than that the only advantage they have is more damage / higher sustain. It's never been easier in ESO history to wipe a raid than it is now.
ya what? You proceed to list every advantage they have, even excluding healing and support tools which matter, yet suggest they are no stronger than a six man? I'm confused.
I said they are no stronger than a 6 man from a survivability perspective. As in, the amount of damage required to kill 6 players is the same to kill 24 players. And this thread was talking about increasing the damage.
You need heals to survive. Mire people equal more heals..mire heals equal better survivability
dtsharples wrote: »Ball groups are literally the scum of Cyrodiil.
Max group size should be reduced to 10 people.
At least then you aren't a disgusting mindless Zerg like UF or ZS, steamrolling over people who are trying to actually PVP with some skill.