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Infused Jewelry trait and Potion speed glyphs
BohnT
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This post is not about the current bugs that are connected to the infused trait on jewelry.
This post only focuses on the balance issues this combination will bring to the game especially when combined with argonians.
For the record
The issue with the new implementes infused trait is that it gives my build way too much.
Clever Alchemist cooldown is reduced from 50% uptime on live to ~30% or 6 seconds. That a crazy buff for a set that was once intended to only have a 33% uptime.
But this is only the weaker buff.
You can drink potions every 21 seconds.
The following calculations are based on tripots, the healing is taken as equal to the resource gain to ease the math.
7582 (stamina/ magicka gain from a crafted potion)
7582*2/21= 722 regen from the potions only
Compared to
7582*2/45= 337 regen
It doubles your sustain from potions and gives you more total regen than regen glyphs can give you (stam+mag regen)
And we haven't looked into the nice burst heal you get on top of that also this can be mixed with different potion effects to massively reduce your downtime on strong effects like major vitality, cc immunity or invisibility.
When we factor on the argonian passives it gets really crazy.
4620 stam/ magicka and health when drinking a potion.
Without glyphs: 4620*2/45= 205 regen
With glyphs: 4620*2/21= 440 regen
This means an argonian utilising those glyphs and the infused trait gets 1162 regen from their potions rather than 337 without anything (including potion passive) or 562 regen with the potion passive.
This is extremly critical for balance as it makes argonian completely overperfoming and as an argonian only player i don't want this to happen because then they'll be killed with the nerf hammer :crying:
This combination opens up the ability for magicka ja argonian chars to completely ignore their stamina sustain and purely focus on their magicka and damage and vice versa for stamina chars and their magicka sustain . Also it gives NBs a passive ulti regen of ~1 ult/s which is simply too good.
Please change it so that the potion speed glyph isn't affected by the infused trait to prevent several huge balance issues.
This post only focuses on the balance issues this combination will bring to the game especially when combined with argonians.
For the record
i play an argonian meele magnb that is build around the potion speed glyphs and it is very strong. It's one of those builds that have everything.
I have endless sustain for cloak and can sustain stamina with only 9.9k Max stam and 700 stamregen. At the same time i have very good offence: depending on n setup i have 49k Max magicka and a buffed spelldamage of 4.2k.
I had meteors hit for 25k with empower, my highest will crit was a 29.3k hit (on a player with no impen and low cp ofc) but my will often crits for 12-14k after incap even against tanky players
.I have endless sustain for cloak and can sustain stamina with only 9.9k Max stam and 700 stamregen. At the same time i have very good offence: depending on n setup i have 49k Max magicka and a buffed spelldamage of 4.2k.
I had meteors hit for 25k with empower, my highest will crit was a 29.3k hit (on a player with no impen and low cp ofc) but my will often crits for 12-14k after incap even against tanky players
The issue with the new implementes infused trait is that it gives my build way too much.
Clever Alchemist cooldown is reduced from 50% uptime on live to ~30% or 6 seconds. That a crazy buff for a set that was once intended to only have a 33% uptime.
But this is only the weaker buff.
You can drink potions every 21 seconds.
The following calculations are based on tripots, the healing is taken as equal to the resource gain to ease the math.
7582 (stamina/ magicka gain from a crafted potion)
7582*2/21= 722 regen from the potions only
Compared to
7582*2/45= 337 regen
It doubles your sustain from potions and gives you more total regen than regen glyphs can give you (stam+mag regen)
And we haven't looked into the nice burst heal you get on top of that also this can be mixed with different potion effects to massively reduce your downtime on strong effects like major vitality, cc immunity or invisibility.
When we factor on the argonian passives it gets really crazy.
4620 stam/ magicka and health when drinking a potion.
Without glyphs: 4620*2/45= 205 regen
With glyphs: 4620*2/21= 440 regen
This means an argonian utilising those glyphs and the infused trait gets 1162 regen from their potions rather than 337 without anything (including potion passive) or 562 regen with the potion passive.
This is extremly critical for balance as it makes argonian completely overperfoming and as an argonian only player i don't want this to happen because then they'll be killed with the nerf hammer :crying:
This combination opens up the ability for magicka ja argonian chars to completely ignore their stamina sustain and purely focus on their magicka and damage and vice versa for stamina chars and their magicka sustain . Also it gives NBs a passive ulti regen of ~1 ult/s which is simply too good.
Please change it so that the potion speed glyph isn't affected by the infused trait to prevent several huge balance issues.
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Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree.
A point I want to underline is that people will be able to have constently 2 potions buff.
2 ligenring potion ticking at the same time with 15s of Major vitality (21s cooldown so 70% uptime)
or
100% uptime on MAJOR Mag regen, mag critical, spell damage, speed and stam regen.
It will create god mode argonian running around.
The worst will be the clever alchemist stamthing with 2 lingering potion and 70% uptime on major vitality.
Edited by Aedaryl on April 17, 2018 10:33PM -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Is this from ONE piece of Infused jewelry or all three? Because if it's all three, you have to give up a lot of potential spell damage to achieve what you guys are describing.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Edited by Gilvoth on April 17, 2018 10:44PMbest in slot: is the armor, weapon, clothing look, pet, or no pet, jewelry, race, class, skill choices, amount of DPS, and skin color best fit to you and the way you wish to play and makes you feel good and performs what YOU think it should be.
worst in slot: what you read in zone chat, and forum comment, and forum thread, and you tube video, and live streamer advice, and class rep advice, and guild chat advice, and whisper told you to wear, and use for skill, and dress like, and use for weapon and armor. -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Is this from ONE piece of Infused jewelry or all three? Because if it's all three, you have to give up a lot of potential spell damage to achieve what you guys are describing.
From three and the spell damage you give up is nothing compared to the sustain you get which let's you balance the loss in spelldamage really easily -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »there is a cap on speed.
atleast that's what i have read from dev patch notes a few years ago
Do you even read posts before writing something?Edited by BohnT on April 17, 2018 10:45PM -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Is this from ONE piece of Infused jewelry or all three? Because if it's all three, you have to give up a lot of potential spell damage to achieve what you guys are describing.
From three and the spell damage you give up is nothing compared to the sustain you get which let's you balance the loss in spelldamage really easily
That's right.
Agonian + 3 infused potion reduction cooldown = enough sustain to wear 2 damage set. Especially on a stamina character. It's also a block buff, because the sustain you have isn't effected by blocking like regen is. -
munster1404✭✭✭Isn't it expensive to keep chugging crafted potions?Edited by munster1404 on April 17, 2018 10:53PM
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭munster1404 wrote: »Isn't it expensive to keep chugging crafted potions?
Very. On PCNA, Tripots will run you 115-140g per dose right now. It's not bad if you're spending a couple hours in trials and maybe running a dungeon every couple days, but it stacks of fast if you're in PvP.Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO. -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »munster1404 wrote: »Isn't it expensive to keep chugging crafted potions?
Very. On PCNA, Tripots will run you 115-140g per dose right now. It's not bad if you're spending a couple hours in trials and maybe running a dungeon every couple days, but it stacks of fast if you're in PvP.
If you do any farming, you'll have hundreds of the ingredients. -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »munster1404 wrote: »Isn't it expensive to keep chugging crafted potions?
Very. On PCNA, Tripots will run you 115-140g per dose right now. It's not bad if you're spending a couple hours in trials and maybe running a dungeon every couple days, but it stacks of fast if you're in PvP.
If you do any farming, you'll have hundreds of the ingredients.
Thousands, actually. But, at the same time, if you're burning pots at the rates allowed by the PTS currently, your farming stocks will not keep up.Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO. -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would say the potion passive needs to be slightly nerfed. That passive is overperforming since ages to be honest.
I'm against nerfing the potion passive it's one of the best designed passives in the game.
I could see a nerf to the extra health or reducing healing done / taken to 4% down from 5 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Look at it this way, ZOS finally reverted the Morrowind sustain nerf
Argonian forever -
Asgari✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Formerly @Persian_Princess .. Now @Asgari
Princess Asgari | Sorc
Asgari | NB
-Asgari | Stamplar
Ariana Kishi | DK | True Liberator of Haderus
Banner Down!
No Mercy
Youtube: Asgari -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »munster1404 wrote: »Isn't it expensive to keep chugging crafted potions?
Very. On PCNA, Tripots will run you 115-140g per dose right now. It's not bad if you're spending a couple hours in trials and maybe running a dungeon every couple days, but it stacks of fast if you're in PvP.
If you do any farming, you'll have hundreds of the ingredients.
Yea but farming boring Was thinking of a new stamblade build for next patch and infused with potion reduction seems like it might be the best.Still not sure don't want to be a lizard -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭munster1404 wrote: »Isn't it expensive to keep chugging crafted potions?
Well when talking about combat we can't look at the cost. Same with people saying that you should get absolutely overperfoming sets from vet HM trials.
Abilities and sets have to be balanced in all situations. -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The issue here seems to be Argonians rather than the Infused trait.It's sad the update ZOS devotes to performance improvements has degraded Cyrodiil to lows not seen since the Infamous "Lighting Patch"" of June 2014. -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Is this from ONE piece of Infused jewelry or all three? Because if it's all three, you have to give up a lot of potential spell damage to achieve what you guys are describing.
Agree with you, players are seeing one side of coin only.
Anyway, if this need nerf then ZOS should not nerf Infuse trait on jewellery or we will end up having another junk trait.Edited by Lord_Eomer on April 18, 2018 1:26PM -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »The issue here seems to be Argonians rather than the Infused trait.
The problem is the infused potion speed glyphs the problem is just magnified by the argonian passives.
The balance issues will be there with any race and especially with nightblades. This change should never make it to live.
I don't want to see argonian passives nerfed because they are really overperfoming with an upcoming change while everything else will be less overperfoming.
I don't want to see anything unbalanced added to the game and infused potion speed glyphs will be unbalanced. -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Is this from ONE piece of Infused jewelry or all three? Because if it's all three, you have to give up a lot of potential spell damage to achieve what you guys are describing.
Agree with you, players are seeing one side of coin only.
Anyway, if this need nerf then ZOS should not nerf Infuse trait on jewellery or we will end up having another junk trait.
They just have to nerf infused potion speed glyphs. Just make them not affected by it and everything is fine -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To do this, you are not only giving up 3 spell/weapon damage gyphs. You are also giving up 3 max resource traits. Losing around 2400 mag/stam.
I think it will be beneficial in very niche builds but not as pervasive as it seems right now. For example, I have a heavy attack stamDK argonian for PVP. The potion glyphs seem tempting to increase survivability, but I don't really need any sustain because heavy attacks are my spammable. I would be better off running 3 robust (changes to light and heavy attack scaling) or even 3 bloodthirsty for more "execute" damage since DK lacks an actual execute. Running the potions glyphs will only keep me alive, it won't help my kill anything. -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Is this from ONE piece of Infused jewelry or all three? Because if it's all three, you have to give up a lot of potential spell damage to achieve what you guys are describing.
Agree with you, players are seeing one side of coin only.
Anyway, if this need nerf then ZOS should not nerf Infuse trait on jewellery or we will end up having another junk trait.
You do realize that this allows you to wear multiple dmg sets and completely ignore sustain? -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Is this from ONE piece of Infused jewelry or all three? Because if it's all three, you have to give up a lot of potential spell damage to achieve what you guys are describing.
Agree with you, players are seeing one side of coin only.
Anyway, if this need nerf then ZOS should not nerf Infuse trait on jewellery or we will end up having another junk trait.
You do realize that this allows you to wear multiple dmg sets and completely ignore sustain?
What is wrong i said? We do not want infuse trait to get nerf rather than having another way to control this.
Balancing PVP and PVE on a one way road is not a way to go!Edited by Lord_Eomer on April 18, 2018 2:08PM -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Is this from ONE piece of Infused jewelry or all three? Because if it's all three, you have to give up a lot of potential spell damage to achieve what you guys are describing.
Agree with you, players are seeing one side of coin only.
Anyway, if this need nerf then ZOS should not nerf Infuse trait on jewellery or we will end up having another junk trait.
You do realize that this allows you to wear multiple dmg sets and completely ignore sustain?
What is wrong i said? We do not want infuse trait to get nerf rather than having someother way to control this.
PVP balance is killing PVE!
Please read my post: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/394278/pve-pvp-nerfs#latest
Everything explained for both PvE and PvP players crying the other part of the game is ruining the game for them. -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Is this from ONE piece of Infused jewelry or all three? Because if it's all three, you have to give up a lot of potential spell damage to achieve what you guys are describing.
Agree with you, players are seeing one side of coin only.
Anyway, if this need nerf then ZOS should not nerf Infuse trait on jewellery or we will end up having another junk trait.
You do realize that this allows you to wear multiple dmg sets and completely ignore sustain?
But you're not ignoring sustain are you? You're wearing glyphs that help sustain, which is not ignoring sustain.
option 1 wear sustain glyphs and two damage sets
option 2 wear damage glyphs + 1 damage set, and sustain set
i do kinda agree though, the balance is WAY in favour of sustain assisting glyphs, or at least that's how it currently looks
The bigger issue is the combination with Argonian. Which comes down to racial imbalance. Some races get ZERO sustain, Imperial, Nord & Dunmer for example. I do like the idea some races get better efficiency from some glyphs, be those +regen, +stat or potion speed, but it may be a bit over the top in this combo.Edited by aeowulf on April 18, 2018 2:14PM -
nCats✭✭✭So it seems like the net buff is 400 regen for a non-argonian, and 600 for one. Compared to the loss of 3000 resources, that's still a win (like 2-3 set bonuses win), it also allows to gimp completely all the irrelevant stats.
Seems borderline op, yes. If you tri-stat your rings, you get like 4500 stats in place of 3000, that is 1500 more provided you need those extra health/stam at all. And the recovery for a shieldstacker/cloaker is a no brainer. I would not know how to kill you 1v1 other than on some really broken setups.
No good idea how to balance it; I foresee ZOS nerfing the glyph, and not just the trait.
