Fang Lair Variant Runebox?

Aren_Liore

OK. So. I know you're going to say I should suck it up and get good or do without, but I'm extremely distressed that this outfit piece is described as "Acquired from end of match Battleground rewards"

Let me start of with what you've probably already gathered: I'm a PvE player. The highest I've ever gotten in Cyrodiil was to rank Tiro Grade 2. I have never stepped foot into battlegrounds and don't want to. I've only participated in a handful of duels since that system came out and it was against my best friend IRL (and lost most of them). Not only am I not good at this kind of content, I don't find it fun and to be completely honest I've not had the best social interactions between people who prefer this kind of content (no offence to those who do, I'm sure there are more nice people out there than toxic).
Now I'm betting that no one here who is competitive and likes beating other players into a red paste is going to be too happy to be teamed up with me and trust me, I don't want to be there any more than you want me to be. If its a one on one (I don't even know if that's a thing in battlegrounds, or a 1v1v1v1 or whatever configurations there are, I have no idea) I'll never complete any of them and will just be wasting my time.

So, my question is: Is this something in a runebox I can spend my entire 4 years of ESO savings on, or am I going to be painting the battleground floor with my own blood over and over again until I finally kill myself for real because of how frustrating that is for me and everyone else involved?

Taleof2Cities

There are other runebox rewards for PvE content in Summerset ... for your playstyle.

Subversus

+1 for the red paste comment! Very... creative

MLGProPlayer

This motif drops from the Fang Lair dungeon:

The Fang Lair and Scalecaller Motif chapters and Style Items will begin dropping from their respective dungeons shortly after the launch of Summerset.

The Fang Lair motif chapters drop from the final boss in Fang Lair; rarely on Normal, more often on Veteran, and guaranteed on Veteran Hard Mode. The Style Item, Dragon Bone, drops from all bosses in the dungeon; more often on Veteran than on Normal, always from the final boss, and more from the final boss on Veteran Hard mode.

You will also be able to buy it from guild traders.

ArvenAldmeri

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

This motif drops from the Fang Lair dungeon:

The Fang Lair and Scalecaller Motif chapters and Style Items will begin dropping from their respective dungeons shortly after the launch of Summerset.

The Fang Lair motif chapters drop from the final boss in Fang Lair; rarely on Normal, more often on Veteran, and guaranteed on Veteran Hard Mode. The Style Item, Dragon Bone, drops from all bosses in the dungeon; more often on Veteran than on Normal, always from the final boss, and more from the final boss on Veteran Hard mode.

You will also be able to buy it from guild traders.

From the pts though there are two very similar but still different motives, Fang Lair from the dungeon and Fang Lair variant from the Battlegrounds. That makes it two achievements. Needless to say that I found the 2 motives that drop from battlegrounds looking better than those that drop in dungeon... Totally fair >.>

Aren_Liore

I'm all for the PvP players to have their own loot. I have no problem with the PvP motif pages and things you can buy with AP or Tel Var, its not bind on pickup and you can sell it. I realize there are some collectibles you can only get in PvP and I think that's fine if it makes sense, like the emperor's armor.

As for PvP players not getting a chance to get PvE stuff, I think that's bad too. I don't believe anyone should have to do content they flat out don't like to get a cosmetic piece. I don't understand why anyone would want to stuff to NOT be tradable? More money for the people finding them, and people who don't want to will have something to save up for.

I think its another thing for these new pieces to be a part of the outfit system, instead of being stand alone collectibles like a polymorph (many of which come in rune boxes) or a costume. It gets into motif category. The difference being that you can buy all motifs (excluding crown store ones). We don't know about these new variant styles and that's what I'm worried about.

Mystrius_Archaion

Can you get the Fang Worm battleground motif by just losing enough? I know battlegrounds even give the losers AP.
I can't remember if it can be purchased for AP from those vendors or is a reward for winning or placing second?

xaraan

IMO, If you choose to ignore a part of the game and only play a different part, that's your choice and not on ZoS to cater to you and provide you with every reward for parts of the game you don't feel like playing.

Most of the items they are doing this for are trade-able, so yes, you can spend your gold on them if you don't want to play the content. Which is how it should be. I don't feel sorry for the pvp players that cry when they have to do pve content and not gonna feel sorry for the opposite.

Some of you guys upset over having to play a portion of the game should instead channel that anger into the stuff they truly lock away from us behind a wall of money by making crown store exclusive stuff and now, to top that: crown crate exclusive stuff.

Mystrius_Archaion

xaraan wrote: »

I don't feel sorry for the pvp players that cry when they have to do pve content and not gonna feel sorry for the opposite.

Except, pvp is a completely different thing than pve. Pve is supposed to be fair and attainable content. Everybody knows the score. Maybe that's only because the computer isn't smart enough to truly beat us every time.
Pvp is where there are players with better connections and more experience and just luckier and all contribute to us continually losing.

That's where I see the arguments everyone makes.

Yes, I have no sympathy for PVPers who have to go into PVE because PVE is easier and this game is 95% PVE anyway. They're complaining about having to actually "get up and go to the tv to change input because the universal remote for their cable box won't do it and they won't use the original tv remote". It's purely lazy and they could go to a PVP only game if they wanted just PVP where it was balanced and performing better.

I do have sympathy for PVE players who have to go into PVP though as that is like sending alcohol to a recovering alcoholics sober anniversary party. It's a bad idea.

jypcy

From the natch potes:
“Outfit Style Pages of Fanged Worm and Horned Dragon equipment can be occasionally obtained from Battlemaster Rivyn's Reward Boxes, which are obtained by completing your first Battleground LFG in a day on that character. These Style Pages are account bound, and will not drop if you already have that item in your inventory or that outfit style unlocked.”

So they are pvp exclusives (at this time) and not buyable from/tradeable with other players, but require no pvp aptitude whatsoever. Do the lfg (basically a random vet/norm dungeon), get the box, and hope you get a style page. I’m similar in that I pretty much exclusively do pve, but I think this is fine. They’re just variants of the motifs we can get from the pve dungeon content from last patch, and we even have a way to guarantee we get the page drop of our variant as opposed to the mere chance for the pvp variant.

Mystrius_Archaion

jypcy wrote: »

From the natch potes:
“Outfit Style Pages of Fanged Worm and Horned Dragon equipment can be occasionally obtained from Battlemaster Rivyn's Reward Boxes, which are obtained by completing your first Battleground LFG in a day on that character. These Style Pages are account bound, and will not drop if you already have that item in your inventory or that outfit style unlocked.”

So they are pvp exclusives (at this time) and not buyable from/tradeable with other players, but require no pvp aptitude whatsoever. Do the lfg (basically a random vet/norm dungeon), get the box, and hope you get a style page. I’m similar in that I pretty much exclusively do pve, but I think this is fine. They’re just variants of the motifs we can get from the pve dungeon content from last patch, and we even have a way to guarantee we get the page drop of our variant as opposed to the mere chance for the pvp variant.

Yeah, at least they reward losing too.
I wish the same could be said for those elitist skins like Sanctified Silver. I know I'm going to lose a lot on the way to that, if I can even get a group willing to do that mess.

Aren_Liore

jypcy wrote: »

From the natch potes:
“Outfit Style Pages of Fanged Worm and Horned Dragon equipment can be occasionally obtained from Battlemaster Rivyn's Reward Boxes, which are obtained by completing your first Battleground LFG in a day on that character. These Style Pages are account bound, and will not drop if you already have that item in your inventory or that outfit style unlocked.”

So they are pvp exclusives (at this time) and not buyable from/tradeable with other players, but require no pvp aptitude whatsoever. Do the lfg (basically a random vet/norm dungeon), get the box, and hope you get a style page. I’m similar in that I pretty much exclusively do pve, but I think this is fine. They’re just variants of the motifs we can get from the pve dungeon content from last patch, and we even have a way to guarantee we get the page drop of our variant as opposed to the mere chance for the pvp variant.

Thank you! Do you know if you still get the box if you loose? I'm a good sport and will do my best, but I don't expect to win a lot.

Aren_Liore

To clarify, I'm talking about this piece.

jypcy

@Aren_Liore you should. Haven’t tried it out myself, but like said, it sounds like it’s just a system where you can complete a random bg once every 20 hours and get the “daily” reward box, win or lose.

@Mystrius_Archaion good luck getting your group together! It really does just take a dedicated group of players and from what I’ve seen on the forums, there are a number of people pining for it. And don’t believe the people who say it’s only possible with a carry nowadays. My first clear saw 11 people total getting that skin for the first time, and I don’t think the single healer who got the skin like a week or two earlier could have carried us just time, practice, and yeah, a fair spot of losing.

SshadowSscale

For every pve player crying about this....just suck it up man...we pvpers have to grind sets and monster sets from dungeons...before summerset update there has been only one pvp collectable....the emporer costume...but with almost every update pve gets new collectables but oh no...just when pvpe finally starts getting a reward worth our time you wanna take it away from us....why?

Mystrius_Archaion

SshadowSscale wrote: »

For every pve player crying about this....just suck it up man...we pvpers have to grind sets and monster sets from dungeons...before summerset update there has been only one pvp collectable....the emporer costume...but with almost every update pve gets new collectables but oh no...just when pvpe finally starts getting a reward worth our time you wanna take it away from us....why?

That's because PVP is a rather small section of the playerbase. Most people really do hate to pvp, so they are not going to add as much incentives to that.

Also, the gameplay of pvp does not change. No matter what additional things you add like capturing keeps or king of the hill or whatever, it all comes down to killing other player characters. Therefore, there isn't much to do for rewards for the same actions you already do unlike adding new trials and new mechanics the npcs never did before.


And no, going into PVP is not just "suck it up". It's an invitation to disaster as it requires winning for a lot of those rewards and that is something most PVE players can't do in PVP. They're playing against you experienced players who will not just roll over and let them get the reward because your nature is being competitive and, as apparent by your post here, often being uncaring up to potentially being jerks too.

The developers really want us to hate each other more than we already may be naturally inclined to do so it seems.
PVP is not the natural tendency of humans as a whole. We are a cooperative species that suffers when we fight each other. Most people do not want to fight, at the very least because of the potential for losing.
Therefore, we do not want to PVP and normally do not need to in order to survive. It can even threaten survival.(meaning as in real life behaviors being represented in the virtual world)


Edit:
They added monster sets to a pvp vendor for you also. You don't have to grind any PVE content.
Your best sets usually come from pvp reward containers also.

xaraan

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I don't feel sorry for the pvp players that cry when they have to do pve content and not gonna feel sorry for the opposite.

Except, pvp is a completely different thing than pve. Pve is supposed to be fair and attainable content. Everybody knows the score. Maybe that's only because the computer isn't smart enough to truly beat us every time.
Pvp is where there are players with better connections and more experience and just luckier and all contribute to us continually losing.

That's where I see the arguments everyone makes.

Yes, I have no sympathy for PVPers who have to go into PVE because PVE is easier and this game is 95% PVE anyway. They're complaining about having to actually "get up and go to the tv to change input because the universal remote for their cable box won't do it and they won't use the original tv remote". It's purely lazy and they could go to a PVP only game if they wanted just PVP where it was balanced and performing better.

I do have sympathy for PVE players who have to go into PVP though as that is like sending alcohol to a recovering alcoholics sober anniversary party. It's a bad idea.

Not exactly.

All PvE isn't fair and attainable in the sense that everyone can get everything. Which is why you don't see average players running around with vAS-HM skins and perfected AS weapons.

And do you think it's easy for a PvP player to go into PvE, join a top raiding guild and get those types of weapons and rewards? Of course not. It's one thing to expect them to do 4 man dungeons or solo stuff - not a big deal, but to be able to quickly farm a trial on vet hard mode isn't easy unless you are already on the in with a group that can do it and you have solid pve gear.

It's actually much much easier for a PvE player to throw on some impen gear and just run around, avoiding the giant fights if they wish, and flip some resources and towns, take some districts in IC, help defend a keep or repair it etc. (Half of which you don't even need impen for actually) in order to get a handful of rewards and place on the leaderboard enough to get end of campaign rewards. That is actually WAAAAAY easier than most player realize.

But when they put options like being able to buy it from a pvpers if you don't want to bother with pvp, then that's even better and not an option PvPers get for much of the gear and rewards from pve.

Mystrius_Archaion

xaraan wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I don't feel sorry for the pvp players that cry when they have to do pve content and not gonna feel sorry for the opposite.

Except, pvp is a completely different thing than pve. Pve is supposed to be fair and attainable content. Everybody knows the score. Maybe that's only because the computer isn't smart enough to truly beat us every time.
Pvp is where there are players with better connections and more experience and just luckier and all contribute to us continually losing.

That's where I see the arguments everyone makes.

Yes, I have no sympathy for PVPers who have to go into PVE because PVE is easier and this game is 95% PVE anyway. They're complaining about having to actually "get up and go to the tv to change input because the universal remote for their cable box won't do it and they won't use the original tv remote". It's purely lazy and they could go to a PVP only game if they wanted just PVP where it was balanced and performing better.

I do have sympathy for PVE players who have to go into PVP though as that is like sending alcohol to a recovering alcoholics sober anniversary party. It's a bad idea.

Not exactly.

All PvE isn't fair and attainable in the sense that everyone can get everything. Which is why you don't see average players running around with vAS-HM skins and perfected AS weapons.

And do you think it's easy for a PvP player to go into PvE, join a top raiding guild and get those types of weapons and rewards? Of course not. It's one thing to expect them to do 4 man dungeons or solo stuff - not a big deal, but to be able to quickly farm a trial on vet hard mode isn't easy unless you are already on the in with a group that can do it and you have solid pve gear.

Actually, yes all PVE is fair. The gear matters less in PVE than memorizing patterns and reaction time for block and dodge.
PVP players are completely unpredictable. They can stop attacking and run even if they were so inclined. That's so much harder.

As for the rewards, you don't need the PVE rewards, nor do you want them most times. You want gear sets that affect damage against players or damage from players more, which is from PVP vendors or reward containers.
Trial sets are pretty much good for trials with set bonuses like "minor aegis, reduces damage taken from dungeon and trial monsters by 5%" which is useless for pvp.

As for the monster sets, you have that khajiit vendor, "The Golden" , who sells them for gold or AP at random so you never have to do veteran dungeons or pledges on normal so long as you are patient, as a lot of the PVE players also do.


You are never forced into PVE unless you truly want PVE rewards, like cosmetics. Yes, cosmetics are PVE as they don't involve killing other player characters. If all you care about is PVP then you could do it naked as a black silhouette model of a character so long as it was balanced so that your skill was all that mattered.

In fact, maybe they should release a "naked pvp" campaign where everyone just has base stats, no gear and no champion points so they could finally tune all class abilities to be balanced without extra variables. It would be the same as other games just making all players equal stats in PVP where gear doesn't matter. It would be like a first person shooter game but with aim assist and fantasy themes.




But my original point stands. PVP is entirely different than PVE because there is less predictability to combat which they can't choose exactly when that starts or make it any easier through practice because both sides gain the same experience fighting each other.
This is why people hate it. If it was just a matter of time and patience to get better and win then people would, but players exploit things and also get better themselves against them so the goal posts are always moving.

Think of it this way. Do you like economic inflation? Everything gets more expensive and you need wage raises just to keep up but it is never enough. Do you feel you enjoy everything costing more as you never seem to get ahead? Do you like the government mandating more that you buy insurance and that insurance costing more and your taxes going up every year?
That's PVP. It's a never-ending treadmill that keeps raising the incline.

PVE at least has an end, so long as gear caps aren't raised.

Aren_Liore

I feel for PvP players that want to do high end PvE. I know how hard it can be to get a good trial group together. I didn't think that gear was good for PvP though? This is also a different discussion about PvP exclusive gear vs PvE exclusive gear. (Does PvP even have bind on pickup gear? They should.) I think it would be cool to have PvP exclusive ability altering weapons.

I can understand having to earn gear because it impacts your stats and abilities. That's something noble to work toward. Cosmetics though? I'm not quite sure I see the importance of it being PvP / PvE exclusive. Especially not a piece like this, which is only slightly different than the motif page and not in any way flashy. This piece can't even be used for the "Look at me, I did this hard thing and got this cool thing to show off" because its so simple. Knock yourselves out with PvP exclusive skins and polymorphs, just like PvE has exclusive skins and polymorphs. Barring gear, and the soul shriven motif, I can't think of a PvE exclusive motif / outfit style. You can buy all of those with gold if you don't want to do the content. Many of the collectibles in PvE also come in rune boxes to be sold.

I'll also say that yes, it is pretty easy for a PvE player to go into Cyrodiil and get some AP. This is battlegrounds though, you can't avoid conflict can you?

xaraan

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I don't feel sorry for the pvp players that cry when they have to do pve content and not gonna feel sorry for the opposite.

Except, pvp is a completely different thing than pve. Pve is supposed to be fair and attainable content. Everybody knows the score. Maybe that's only because the computer isn't smart enough to truly beat us every time.
Pvp is where there are players with better connections and more experience and just luckier and all contribute to us continually losing.

That's where I see the arguments everyone makes.

Yes, I have no sympathy for PVPers who have to go into PVE because PVE is easier and this game is 95% PVE anyway. They're complaining about having to actually "get up and go to the tv to change input because the universal remote for their cable box won't do it and they won't use the original tv remote". It's purely lazy and they could go to a PVP only game if they wanted just PVP where it was balanced and performing better.

I do have sympathy for PVE players who have to go into PVP though as that is like sending alcohol to a recovering alcoholics sober anniversary party. It's a bad idea.

Not exactly.

All PvE isn't fair and attainable in the sense that everyone can get everything. Which is why you don't see average players running around with vAS-HM skins and perfected AS weapons.

And do you think it's easy for a PvP player to go into PvE, join a top raiding guild and get those types of weapons and rewards? Of course not. It's one thing to expect them to do 4 man dungeons or solo stuff - not a big deal, but to be able to quickly farm a trial on vet hard mode isn't easy unless you are already on the in with a group that can do it and you have solid pve gear.

Actually, yes all PVE is fair. The gear matters less in PVE than memorizing patterns and reaction time for block and dodge.
PVP players are completely unpredictable. They can stop attacking and run even if they were so inclined. That's so much harder.

As for the rewards, you don't need the PVE rewards, nor do you want them most times. You want gear sets that affect damage against players or damage from players more, which is from PVP vendors or reward containers.
Trial sets are pretty much good for trials with set bonuses like "minor aegis, reduces damage taken from dungeon and trial monsters by 5%" which is useless for pvp.

As for the monster sets, you have that khajiit vendor, "The Golden" , who sells them for gold or AP at random so you never have to do veteran dungeons or pledges on normal so long as you are patient, as a lot of the PVE players also do.


You are never forced into PVE unless you truly want PVE rewards, like cosmetics. Yes, cosmetics are PVE as they don't involve killing other player characters. If all you care about is PVP then you could do it naked as a black silhouette model of a character so long as it was balanced so that your skill was all that mattered.

In fact, maybe they should release a "naked pvp" campaign where everyone just has base stats, no gear and no champion points so they could finally tune all class abilities to be balanced without extra variables. It would be the same as other games just making all players equal stats in PVP where gear doesn't matter. It would be like a first person shooter game but with aim assist and fantasy themes.




But my original point stands. PVP is entirely different than PVE because there is less predictability to combat which they can't choose exactly when that starts or make it any easier through practice because both sides gain the same experience fighting each other.
This is why people hate it. If it was just a matter of time and patience to get better and win then people would, but players exploit things and also get better themselves against them so the goal posts are always moving.

Think of it this way. Do you like economic inflation? Everything gets more expensive and you need wage raises just to keep up but it is never enough. Do you feel you enjoy everything costing more as you never seem to get ahead? Do you like the government mandating more that you buy insurance and that insurance costing more and your taxes going up every year?
That's PVP. It's a never-ending treadmill that keeps raising the incline.

PVE at least has an end, so long as gear caps aren't raised.

Sorry, you point is dead and you didn't refute my comment at all.

Go join a top veteran HM trial guild to get the new weapons and gear unlocked in a new pve trial and tell them your gear doesn't matter, but you got the patterns memorized and report back.

Mystrius_Archaion

xaraan wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I don't feel sorry for the pvp players that cry when they have to do pve content and not gonna feel sorry for the opposite.

Except, pvp is a completely different thing than pve. Pve is supposed to be fair and attainable content. Everybody knows the score. Maybe that's only because the computer isn't smart enough to truly beat us every time.
Pvp is where there are players with better connections and more experience and just luckier and all contribute to us continually losing.

That's where I see the arguments everyone makes.

Yes, I have no sympathy for PVPers who have to go into PVE because PVE is easier and this game is 95% PVE anyway. They're complaining about having to actually "get up and go to the tv to change input because the universal remote for their cable box won't do it and they won't use the original tv remote". It's purely lazy and they could go to a PVP only game if they wanted just PVP where it was balanced and performing better.

I do have sympathy for PVE players who have to go into PVP though as that is like sending alcohol to a recovering alcoholics sober anniversary party. It's a bad idea.

Not exactly.

All PvE isn't fair and attainable in the sense that everyone can get everything. Which is why you don't see average players running around with vAS-HM skins and perfected AS weapons.

And do you think it's easy for a PvP player to go into PvE, join a top raiding guild and get those types of weapons and rewards? Of course not. It's one thing to expect them to do 4 man dungeons or solo stuff - not a big deal, but to be able to quickly farm a trial on vet hard mode isn't easy unless you are already on the in with a group that can do it and you have solid pve gear.

Actually, yes all PVE is fair. The gear matters less in PVE than memorizing patterns and reaction time for block and dodge.
PVP players are completely unpredictable. They can stop attacking and run even if they were so inclined. That's so much harder.

As for the rewards, you don't need the PVE rewards, nor do you want them most times. You want gear sets that affect damage against players or damage from players more, which is from PVP vendors or reward containers.
Trial sets are pretty much good for trials with set bonuses like "minor aegis, reduces damage taken from dungeon and trial monsters by 5%" which is useless for pvp.

As for the monster sets, you have that khajiit vendor, "The Golden" , who sells them for gold or AP at random so you never have to do veteran dungeons or pledges on normal so long as you are patient, as a lot of the PVE players also do.


You are never forced into PVE unless you truly want PVE rewards, like cosmetics. Yes, cosmetics are PVE as they don't involve killing other player characters. If all you care about is PVP then you could do it naked as a black silhouette model of a character so long as it was balanced so that your skill was all that mattered.

In fact, maybe they should release a "naked pvp" campaign where everyone just has base stats, no gear and no champion points so they could finally tune all class abilities to be balanced without extra variables. It would be the same as other games just making all players equal stats in PVP where gear doesn't matter. It would be like a first person shooter game but with aim assist and fantasy themes.




But my original point stands. PVP is entirely different than PVE because there is less predictability to combat which they can't choose exactly when that starts or make it any easier through practice because both sides gain the same experience fighting each other.
This is why people hate it. If it was just a matter of time and patience to get better and win then people would, but players exploit things and also get better themselves against them so the goal posts are always moving.

Think of it this way. Do you like economic inflation? Everything gets more expensive and you need wage raises just to keep up but it is never enough. Do you feel you enjoy everything costing more as you never seem to get ahead? Do you like the government mandating more that you buy insurance and that insurance costing more and your taxes going up every year?
That's PVP. It's a never-ending treadmill that keeps raising the incline.

PVE at least has an end, so long as gear caps aren't raised.

Sorry, you point is dead and you didn't refute my comment at all.

Go join a top veteran HM trial guild to get the new weapons and gear unlocked in a new pve trial and tell them your gear doesn't matter, but you got the patterns memorized and report back.

How do you think they get that gear that drops in the hard mode content?
They have to complete hard mode. But if they already can complete the hardest mode then why do they need the gear from it?

That's the paradox of PVE content that people easily forget.
PVE players don't need the gear either. The only reason people go for that gear is to make either that same PVE content or other PVE content easier.

PVP is completely different. No gear will make that easier. Other players will have access to the same gear and their skills or luck can still overcome it.


You PVPers can also, given the same gear, come in and do just as well in PVE as any other PVE player, but we PVE players can't do the same in PVP. We get our butts handed to us.

I'm done with this off topic argument though.
I don't think that any cosmetic reward should be locked behind the more difficult optional content. Harder content and PVP should be for bragging rights or personal challenge, nothing more. That's all people really want from it anyway. So let's just allow everyone to see everyone else's achievements like other games such as World of Warcraft do and be done with the beating around the bush.

xaraan

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I don't feel sorry for the pvp players that cry when they have to do pve content and not gonna feel sorry for the opposite.

Except, pvp is a completely different thing than pve. Pve is supposed to be fair and attainable content. Everybody knows the score. Maybe that's only because the computer isn't smart enough to truly beat us every time.
Pvp is where there are players with better connections and more experience and just luckier and all contribute to us continually losing.

That's where I see the arguments everyone makes.

Yes, I have no sympathy for PVPers who have to go into PVE because PVE is easier and this game is 95% PVE anyway. They're complaining about having to actually "get up and go to the tv to change input because the universal remote for their cable box won't do it and they won't use the original tv remote". It's purely lazy and they could go to a PVP only game if they wanted just PVP where it was balanced and performing better.

I do have sympathy for PVE players who have to go into PVP though as that is like sending alcohol to a recovering alcoholics sober anniversary party. It's a bad idea.

Not exactly.

All PvE isn't fair and attainable in the sense that everyone can get everything. Which is why you don't see average players running around with vAS-HM skins and perfected AS weapons.

And do you think it's easy for a PvP player to go into PvE, join a top raiding guild and get those types of weapons and rewards? Of course not. It's one thing to expect them to do 4 man dungeons or solo stuff - not a big deal, but to be able to quickly farm a trial on vet hard mode isn't easy unless you are already on the in with a group that can do it and you have solid pve gear.

Actually, yes all PVE is fair. The gear matters less in PVE than memorizing patterns and reaction time for block and dodge.
PVP players are completely unpredictable. They can stop attacking and run even if they were so inclined. That's so much harder.

As for the rewards, you don't need the PVE rewards, nor do you want them most times. You want gear sets that affect damage against players or damage from players more, which is from PVP vendors or reward containers.
Trial sets are pretty much good for trials with set bonuses like "minor aegis, reduces damage taken from dungeon and trial monsters by 5%" which is useless for pvp.

As for the monster sets, you have that khajiit vendor, "The Golden" , who sells them for gold or AP at random so you never have to do veteran dungeons or pledges on normal so long as you are patient, as a lot of the PVE players also do.


You are never forced into PVE unless you truly want PVE rewards, like cosmetics. Yes, cosmetics are PVE as they don't involve killing other player characters. If all you care about is PVP then you could do it naked as a black silhouette model of a character so long as it was balanced so that your skill was all that mattered.

In fact, maybe they should release a "naked pvp" campaign where everyone just has base stats, no gear and no champion points so they could finally tune all class abilities to be balanced without extra variables. It would be the same as other games just making all players equal stats in PVP where gear doesn't matter. It would be like a first person shooter game but with aim assist and fantasy themes.




But my original point stands. PVP is entirely different than PVE because there is less predictability to combat which they can't choose exactly when that starts or make it any easier through practice because both sides gain the same experience fighting each other.
This is why people hate it. If it was just a matter of time and patience to get better and win then people would, but players exploit things and also get better themselves against them so the goal posts are always moving.

Think of it this way. Do you like economic inflation? Everything gets more expensive and you need wage raises just to keep up but it is never enough. Do you feel you enjoy everything costing more as you never seem to get ahead? Do you like the government mandating more that you buy insurance and that insurance costing more and your taxes going up every year?
That's PVP. It's a never-ending treadmill that keeps raising the incline.

PVE at least has an end, so long as gear caps aren't raised.

Sorry, you point is dead and you didn't refute my comment at all.

Go join a top veteran HM trial guild to get the new weapons and gear unlocked in a new pve trial and tell them your gear doesn't matter, but you got the patterns memorized and report back.

How do you think they get that gear that drops in the hard mode content?
They have to complete hard mode. But if they already can complete the hardest mode then why do they need the gear from it?

That's the paradox of PVE content that people easily forget.
PVE players don't need the gear either. The only reason people go for that gear is to make either that same PVE content or other PVE content easier.

PVP is completely different. No gear will make that easier. Other players will have access to the same gear and their skills or luck can still overcome it.


You PVPers can also, given the same gear, come in and do just as well in PVE as any other PVE player, but we PVE players can't do the same in PVP. We get our butts handed to us.

I'm done with this off topic argument though.
I don't think that any cosmetic reward should be locked behind the more difficult optional content. Harder content and PVP should be for bragging rights or personal challenge, nothing more. That's all people really want from it anyway. So let's just allow everyone to see everyone else's achievements like other games such as World of Warcraft do and be done with the beating around the bush.

wha...

Go talk to pvp players about how they feel about having to run a 12 man trial to get perfected AS weapons and see how sorry they feel for a pve player that might have to buy something from a pvper. You can ask them why they need the gear if they can run that trial anyway while you are at it.

All I can tell you is you don't make a lot of sense and if it helps, at least I'm consistent and I tell pvpers the same thing all the time - they are choosing to only play a part of the game instead of the whole game and I don't feel bad for them either.

Aren_Liore

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

I don't think that any cosmetic reward should be locked behind the more difficult optional content. Harder content and PVP should be for bragging rights or personal challenge, nothing more. That's all people really want from it anyway. So let's just allow everyone to see everyone else's achievements like other games such as World of Warcraft do and be done with the beating around the bush.

That's what I'm saying. This specific piece can't even be used for bragging rights either because it isn't flashy enough. Only a motif junkie like me would notice the difference.

I think its fair for PvP players to get nice costumes / skins / polymorphs to show off how amazing they are. This piece doesn't achieve that in my opinion. I don't see any reason why this is a PvP thing. You could just as easily put that piece of armor anywhere else in the game and it wouldn't look out of place.

SshadowSscale

Aren_Liore wrote: »

I feel for PvP players that want to do high end PvE. I know how hard it can be to get a good trial group together. I didn't think that gear was good for PvP though? This is also a different discussion about PvP exclusive gear vs PvE exclusive gear. (Does PvP even have bind on pickup gear? They should.) I think it would be cool to have PvP exclusive ability altering weapons.

I can understand having to earn gear because it impacts your stats and abilities. That's something noble to work toward. Cosmetics though? I'm not quite sure I see the importance of it being PvP / PvE exclusive. Especially not a piece like this, which is only slightly different than the motif page and not in any way flashy. This piece can't even be used for the "Look at me, I did this hard thing and got this cool thing to show off" because its so simple. Knock yourselves out with PvP exclusive skins and polymorphs, just like PvE has exclusive skins and polymorphs. Barring gear, and the soul shriven motif, I can't think of a PvE exclusive motif / outfit style. You can buy all of those with gold if you don't want to do the content. Many of the collectibles in PvE also come in rune boxes to be sold.

I'll also say that yes, it is pretty easy for a PvE player to go into Cyrodiil and get some AP. This is battlegrounds though, you can't avoid conflict can you?

Well ive won a couple of matches like cappture the relic or domination without fighting a single player....posistioning and timing is all it takes of you dont want to be part of the conflict then dont play the objective dont go for kills then....granted death match for example....yeah good luck

SshadowSscale

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

For every pve player crying about this....just suck it up man...we pvpers have to grind sets and monster sets from dungeons...before summerset update there has been only one pvp collectable....the emporer costume...but with almost every update pve gets new collectables but oh no...just when pvpe finally starts getting a reward worth our time you wanna take it away from us....why?

That's because PVP is a rather small section of the playerbase. Most people really do hate to pvp, so they are not going to add as much incentives to that.

Also, the gameplay of pvp does not change. No matter what additional things you add like capturing keeps or king of the hill or whatever, it all comes down to killing other player characters. Therefore, there isn't much to do for rewards for the same actions you already do unlike adding new trials and new mechanics the npcs never did before.


And no, going into PVP is not just "suck it up". It's an invitation to disaster as it requires winning for a lot of those rewards and that is something most PVE players can't do in PVP. They're playing against you experienced players who will not just roll over and let them get the reward because your nature is being competitive and, as apparent by your post here, often being uncaring up to potentially being jerks too.

The developers really want us to hate each other more than we already may be naturally inclined to do so it seems.
PVP is not the natural tendency of humans as a whole. We are a cooperative species that suffers when we fight each other. Most people do not want to fight, at the very least because of the potential for losing.
Therefore, we do not want to PVP and normally do not need to in order to survive. It can even threaten survival.(meaning as in real life behaviors being represented in the virtual world)


Edit:
They added monster sets to a pvp vendor for you also. You don't have to grind any PVE content.
Your best sets usually come from pvp reward containers also.

Wasnt trying to be a jerk but is it really so bad for pvp to get something for ones.....and yeah pvp is smaller part of comunity...why? Because there arent any reason that would make you wanna pvp aside from that you like to pvp....but when pvp gets something pve players wanna take it away from us...thus its not us being the jerks but the pve players being the jerks

jypcy

@Aren_Liore wouldn’t fang lair light work just as well, though? I’m not scrutinizing your image but I don’t really see any notable differences: https://eso.mmo-fashion.com/caluurions-legacy/

This motif drops in pve content, is craftable, and can be bought and sold on traders.

Aren_Liore

SshadowSscale wrote: »

Wasnt trying to be a jerk but is it really so bad for pvp to get something for ones.....and yeah pvp is smaller part of comunity...why? Because there arent any reason that would make you wanna pvp aside from that you like to pvp....but when pvp gets something pve players wanna take it away from us...thus its not us being the jerks but the pve players being the jerks

I would do PvP more if the PvP community was more... respectful / nice / welcoming / supportive. I'm all for PvP players getting nice things, and I'm really excited for you guys because of the new things they've announced regarding PvP rewards. Instead of giving PvPers a slightly modified outfit piece, it would be cooler if it was a outfit that was PvP themed or had some other connection to PvP.

The piece I'm talking about doesn't say any of that to me, and it honestly feels like an afterthought. They couldn't decide which one to use so they stuck this one into PvP because you guys need more things. Instead of actually... making you guys more things.

Yes, putting this in Battlegrounds will probably get me to play battlegrounds. But is that what you guys really want? Is that what ZOS really wants? If they want more people to play PvP they should look at making it more fun and encourage new players / people new to PvP with baby steps. Don't throw us in there with masters of PvP who have been doing this for 4 years and expect us to have "fun" while trying to get an outfit style.

ZOS_Mika

This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive, as we have had to remove a few unnecessary and insulting comments from this thread. Thank you for your understanding.

Aren_Liore

jypcy wrote: »

@Aren_Liore wouldn’t fang lair light work just as well, though? I’m not scrutinizing your image but I don’t really see any notable differences: https://eso.mmo-fashion.com/caluurions-legacy/

This motif drops in pve content, is craftable, and can be bought and sold on traders.

Yes, I'll probably make do, as I said it's something only someone extremely familiar with motifs would notice. The difference is that the real motif has 2 large books at the hips, where the satchels are here. The satchels look better, and don't clip as bad with daggers and swords.

It's a really dumb detail and I care way more than any sane person should, but that's how I am.

Mystrius_Archaion

SshadowSscale wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

For every pve player crying about this....just suck it up man...we pvpers have to grind sets and monster sets from dungeons...before summerset update there has been only one pvp collectable....the emporer costume...but with almost every update pve gets new collectables but oh no...just when pvpe finally starts getting a reward worth our time you wanna take it away from us....why?

That's because PVP is a rather small section of the playerbase. Most people really do hate to pvp, so they are not going to add as much incentives to that.

Also, the gameplay of pvp does not change. No matter what additional things you add like capturing keeps or king of the hill or whatever, it all comes down to killing other player characters. Therefore, there isn't much to do for rewards for the same actions you already do unlike adding new trials and new mechanics the npcs never did before.


And no, going into PVP is not just "suck it up". It's an invitation to disaster as it requires winning for a lot of those rewards and that is something most PVE players can't do in PVP. They're playing against you experienced players who will not just roll over and let them get the reward because your nature is being competitive and, as apparent by your post here, often being uncaring up to potentially being jerks too.

The developers really want us to hate each other more than we already may be naturally inclined to do so it seems.
PVP is not the natural tendency of humans as a whole. We are a cooperative species that suffers when we fight each other. Most people do not want to fight, at the very least because of the potential for losing.
Therefore, we do not want to PVP and normally do not need to in order to survive. It can even threaten survival.(meaning as in real life behaviors being represented in the virtual world)


Edit:
They added monster sets to a pvp vendor for you also. You don't have to grind any PVE content.
Your best sets usually come from pvp reward containers also.

Wasnt trying to be a jerk but is it really so bad for pvp to get something for ones.....and yeah pvp is smaller part of comunity...why? Because there arent any reason that would make you wanna pvp aside from that you like to pvp....but when pvp gets something pve players wanna take it away from us...thus its not us being the jerks but the pve players being the jerks

There will never be a reason for me to "want" to pvp in this game.
I want to pvp in Halo Combat Evolved or Mario Kart, because those I have a fair chance at winning in as there is no gear imbalance and, more importantly, there is no aiming assist and easy exploits through addons or whatever else. They're also completely and utterly for bragging rights or just fun, no rewards or repair costs for winning or losing.

That's the trouble. PVP is something we do not want to do. If we wanted to do it then we would already do it.

There are plenty of things in PVE we actually want to do for little/no reward. For example, I like doing the Black Sacrament daily quest for fun since I already have all the motif pages from it I'll need and the gear is useless. I also like the contract repeatables, but I wish the black sacrament was infinitely repeatable too.
We even do things we do not like in PVE like grinding out crafting nodes and tedious motif grinds.

We HATE pvp.
It's not fun because we lose and lose and lose and lose and lose and lose and lose and lose and lose and lose and lose and lose and lose and lose and lose and lose and lose.....etc
A lot of times we lose when it isn't our fault due to lag or getting outnumbered. We aren't as vulnerable to lag in PVE and we definitely can't be outnumbered when we know where we are. Random NPC enemies don't come riding in from another zone just because the one we are fighting calls them.


So yes, I will try to get anything I see pvp get, that I want, either given to us in pve as well or taken away from pvp and given to pve if that is the only option. Because I would rather fight for that with logic and words than sweat and hurt my hands(history of carpal tunnel) to try to pvp and still lose no matter how hard I try.

Or maybe I should just buy emperor like a lot of people did....

Mystrius_Archaion

Aren_Liore wrote: »

Yes, putting this in Battlegrounds will probably get me to play battlegrounds. But is that what you guys really want? Is that what ZOS really wants? If they want more people to play PvP they should look at making it more fun and encourage new players / people new to PvP with baby steps. Don't throw us in there with masters of PvP who have been doing this for 4 years and expect us to have "fun" while trying to get an outfit style.

Exactly.

One HUGE step that would help this is just eliminating all repair costs for any combat/death in a pvp area or duel.
Another would be removing the losing Tel Var stones to another player when you are killed in Imperial City, or just losing them to npcs.

That is the absolute biggest deterrence for me to pvp. I hate lasting losses. I don't want to lose gold or currency of any kind that I earned. I don't want to get weaker if I try to come back and fight because my gear needs repairs.

If they really want us to pvp, don't punish us for losing.