Working with ivory (in Summerset)

Vercingetorix

There's also fur trade in Tamriel. Are you planning on organizing all Khajiit against it? Keep in mind that while actions in-game can be based on real-world interactions - they are only BASED on them and that it is taking place in a GAME. I don't think any of us have ever heard of someone being inspired by a video game to start up poaching...

ANGEL_BtVS

Geistertanz wrote: »

Hi!

First of all, if this discussion should rather go into another message board here, please move it there.

Secondly, I recently watched the housing preview video for Summerset (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8lJg97mgBs) and around the 18:00 minute mark, the devs talk about a new system to craft furniture from ivroy, which you collect from any animal with horns or tusks.

is it just me, or is this in extremely bad taste, considering the huge problem with poachers in the real world?

I know Tamriel's wildlife is not suffering from any endangerment even remotely as bad as our world, but working with ivory still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Maybe it is just me though. What are your thoughts?

And if the devs leave that in the game... can we get a seal baby smacking mini-game, too? You know, just for the heck of it. ;-)

So it's ok to steal and murder in this game not to mention kills tons of other creatures/animals, but ivory from said animals is where you the draw line. Ummm, ok...

AhPook_Is_Here

OP, I'd agree with you if this wasn't just a game.

As to whale wax, I think that's one of human history's more brilliant moments. Before there were oils that held their viscosity in very high temperature environments these were used; and that gave them a major niche in aerospace weapons systems in both the US and what was at the time the USSR. Isn't it fascinating that we as a species were driving one intelligent species to extinction for a component to make weapons designed to make our own species extinct? It's like it came from a Borges short, let me give you my Quixote, Pierre Menard!

kinguardian

It's not real life though. It's fantasy it's a game. What I wonder is why you just now cringe, because what about the killing of all the other animals for leather and fur and meat. Or the monkeys for the bananas.

And then the all around slaughtering you do trough out the whole quest. Then you're on one side then the other. Or in pvp people kill each other by the dozen. And of course assassinating innocent people because it's fun and you get tainted blood.

If you look at it that way I am a totally immoral person because I enjoy every minute of it. But then again it's fiction fantasy fake and luckily I realise that, the moment you don't then there is a problem.

So don't be a hypocrite and just make you're jewelry

lygerseye

LOL This thread has been in General for 10 days and they just now moved it to Crafting. While the discussion revolves around a particular crafting material, this discussion was not at all about crafting. Looks like the mods wanted to shovel it away where it would quickly die in obscurity without have to take the aggressive action of closing it.

For the record, I think they could have just closed it. Everyone has established their side on the topic and are only digging in further.

firedrgn

I have already killed a bunch of mamoths i guess thats ok since i didnt take any ivory.

Snicker.

Its ok to kill people tho .. no one complains about that.

Sigh..

Tarukmockto

firedrgn wrote: »

I have already killed a bunch of mamoths i guess thats ok since i didnt take any ivory.

It would almost be better if you did take some Ivory, or harvest something at least. Without that it's just killing for sport and wasting the animal.

Haquor

Geistertanz wrote: »

Hi!

First of all, if this discussion should rather go into another message board here, please move it there.

Secondly, I recently watched the housing preview video for Summerset (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8lJg97mgBs) and around the 18:00 minute mark, the devs talk about a new system to craft furniture from ivroy, which you collect from any animal with horns or tusks.

is it just me, or is this in extremely bad taste, considering the huge problem with poachers in the real world?

I know Tamriel's wildlife is not suffering from any endangerment even remotely as bad as our world, but working with ivory still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Maybe it is just me though. What are your thoughts?

And if the devs leave that in the game... can we get a seal baby smacking mini-game, too? You know, just for the heck of it. ;-)

Do you whinge about the mass scale slaughter of humans for nothing more than fun... or just the poor animals?

Also.... its a game. If you want to make it reflect the real world you should have cry closets scattered around tamriel so people can let it all out, have people prosecuted for joking about anything and remove access to all motifs not of the players race due to cultural appropriation concerns. That would be a start.

Gbnicholson1

Might as well start portraying skooma and the bloody skooma smuggling cartels in a favorable light.

https://www.interpol.int/Crime-areas/Environmental-crime/Environmental-crime

The “it’s just a game, pixel ivory” arguments are moot. If that held any water nobody wouldn’t be triggered if they were breaking the provisions of the tos in game, directly making fun of minorities or people with disabilities. Get your gamer gate logic out of decent peoples threads.

Ivory is a violent trade, it’s going to trigger people who have had real life experience in dealing with poachers. Organized crimson involved with ivory trade also use the same cartels for smuggling humans and dangerous contraband.

Get it out of the game it doesn’t belong here, not anywhere. GTA doesn’t even sink this low.

Feric51

Gbnicholson1 wrote: »

Might as well start portraying skooma and the bloody skooma smuggling cartels in a favorable light.

https://www.interpol.int/Crime-areas/Environmental-crime/Environmental-crime

The “it’s just a game, pixel ivory” arguments are moot. If that held any water nobody wouldn’t be triggered if they were breaking the provisions of the tos in game, directly making fun of minorities or people with disabilities. Get your gamer gate logic out of decent peoples threads.

Ivory is a violent trade, it’s going to trigger people who have had real life experience in dealing with poachers. Organized crimson involved with ivory trade also use the same cartels for smuggling humans and dangerous contraband.

Get it out of the game it doesn’t belong here, not anywhere. GTA doesn’t even sink this low.

I think nearly everyone with a conscience would agree with a lot of the actions our in-game characters do would be immoral and horrendous if done in a real-life setting. Not to repeat what nearly everyone else in this thread has been saying (but I will), starting with killing humanoid mobs and npc characters (murder) and slaughter of every creature alive in the game (poaching) there's not much worse to go from there. Looting and pillaging religious sites and sanctuaries for collectibles (black market relics), making decisions that can ultimately lead to npcs not released from indentured servitude (slavery/human trafficking), and a host of others are already in the game at various levels and I don't see people filling the forums asking for those to be removed from the game. Based on the argument solely against the ivory material, it sounds as though you're still okay with killing the mammoths/horkers/kagoutis, you just don't think utilizing their corpses sends the right message?

This is a fictional world replete with its own fictional lore and customs. Try writing George R. R. Martin about removing everything you don't like about his realm of Westeros because it's affecting your enjoyment of reading his books and see what kind of response you get. I'm not trying to come across as harsh or nasty in tone, but at some point it needs to be realized that this is a 'Mature' rated game, and players are expected to be mature enough to realize just that: It. Is. A. Game. If you're triggered by things in a game/book/movie that is not forced upon you and you cannot get past them, simply don't indulge in said form of entertainment. Conversely, why should the majority of players who have no qualms about the matter be forced to bow to wishes of a select few who feel it's wrong that they can't cope?

Lastly... GTA doesn't even sink this low? Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think allowing and promoting the killing of law enforcement officers is a little worse than just about anything ESO has ever thought of introducing....

I will conclude this by stating that these are my opinions, and don't wish to imply that the majority feels the same as I. It just strikes me as odd that ivory marketing is creating a bigger ethical dilemma than all the other capital crimes that are committed every day in this game.

Gbnicholson1

Feric51 wrote: »

Gbnicholson1 wrote: »

Might as well start portraying skooma and the bloody skooma smuggling cartels in a favorable light.

https://www.interpol.int/Crime-areas/Environmental-crime/Environmental-crime

The “it’s just a game, pixel ivory” arguments are moot. If that held any water nobody wouldn’t be triggered if they were breaking the provisions of the tos in game, directly making fun of minorities or people with disabilities. Get your gamer gate logic out of decent peoples threads.

Ivory is a violent trade, it’s going to trigger people who have had real life experience in dealing with poachers. Organized crimson involved with ivory trade also use the same cartels for smuggling humans and dangerous contraband.

Get it out of the game it doesn’t belong here, not anywhere. GTA doesn’t even sink this low.

I think nearly everyone with a conscience would agree with a lot of the actions our in-game characters do would be immoral and horrendous if done in a real-life setting. Not to repeat what nearly everyone else in this thread has been saying (but I will), starting with killing humanoid mobs and npc characters (murder) and slaughter of every creature alive in the game (poaching) there's not much worse to go from there. Looting and pillaging religious sites and sanctuaries for collectibles (black market relics), making decisions that can ultimately lead to npcs not released from indentured servitude (slavery/human trafficking), and a host of others are already in the game at various levels and I don't see people filling the forums asking for those to be removed from the game. Based on the argument solely against the ivory material, it sounds as though you're still okay with killing the mammoths/horkers/kagoutis, you just don't think utilizing their corpses sends the right message?

This is a fictional world replete with its own fictional lore and customs. Try writing George R. R. Martin about removing everything you don't like about his realm of Westeros because it's affecting your enjoyment of reading his books and see what kind of response you get. I'm not trying to come across as harsh or nasty in tone, but at some point it needs to be realized that this is a 'Mature' rated game, and players are expected to be mature enough to realize just that: It. Is. A. Game. If you're triggered by things in a game/book/movie that is not forced upon you and you cannot get past them, simply don't indulge in said form of entertainment. Conversely, why should the majority of players who have no qualms about the matter be forced to bow to wishes of a select few who feel it's wrong that they can't cope?

Lastly... GTA doesn't even sink this low? Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think allowing and promoting the killing of law enforcement officers is a little worse than just about anything ESO has ever thought of introducing....

I will conclude this by stating that these are my opinions, and don't wish to imply that the majority feels the same as I. It just strikes me as odd that ivory marketing is creating a bigger ethical dilemma than all the other capital crimes that are committed every day in this game.

You’re missing the point. It’s glorifying ivory as something it’s not, which is something associated with causing extinction of entire species. There’s no value or beauty in it, I’ll pass on placing that in my house or working on that achievement. Leos aren’t going extinct, and gta puts an in game penalties to discourage it. Elephants do have to be euthanized as well, but nobody is taking their ivory off them and making piano keys from it.

Also, this is a beta forum, this is exactly the time and place to petition removal of content, not, for example, when the sjws catch wind of it, Zerg it and anyone who plays it down on twitter, and leaves us with fewer peers to play with, who would also tend to exclusively be people who don’t care about a criminal enterprise being glorified and even rewarded, who I would prefer not to play with. Children aren’t in eso because of the issues with mods in skyrim, the closest you’ll find are young adults.

And George r.r. Martin’s content was also a bad choice for another obvious reason: they introduced plenty of new content and even characters to the show to make it more friendly to hbo’s audience. Users and audience members have stake in the content they view, and their input is valued, the content creators are not some lords over their serf customers.

If the majority of users have no qualms about it they won’t have qualms about it being removed. How would you go about advocating for using ivory over say iridium or a fictional resource like azurium?

I think the ethical choice data was used for surveys or something in skyrim, I had a hard time with the leaving Valaste with sheogorath for 2 skill points. The only thing taking the skill points shows survey wise is people care more about the value of the skill points over the npcs, where I think they tried to use it to say they would care about a tangible reward over a person.

I’m also not thrilled to kill Wildlife nor thrilled about it being portrayed so aggressive. I would like to see developers shift to more realistic portrayals in future games, I’m not going to get my hopes up for released content though, however if they do shift it will look bad in retrospect much like popular content from the 90s does these days.

They certainly don’t have to stop at changing ivory, they can address the other ethical issues, changing the ivory wouldn’t stop them. Maybe it would attract and retain more players as well.

DoctorESO

firedrgn wrote: »

I have already killed a bunch of mamoths i guess thats ok since i didnt take any ivory.

Snicker.

Its ok to kill people tho .. no one complains about that.

Sigh..

The thought process might be that animals are defenseless creatures whereas humans are not and rule the world.

ghastley

The sources of ivory in the game are well capable of fighting back, and will respawn even if the poachers win. Real life ivory only became an issue when the poachers got guns and the balance was broken.

NyassaV

This is why we can't have nice things

Aliyavana

did this post make it unable to get ivory from pixelated mammoths? lawl

Kirameku

This thread is such a joke honestly. Let's don't eat meat and kill animals then! Be pacifists!

Seriously, stop project real life problems into the game. We come here to play in a fantasy world, you know?