Working with ivory (in Summerset)

Geistertanz

Hi!

First of all, if this discussion should rather go into another message board here, please move it there.

Secondly, I recently watched the housing preview video for Summerset (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8lJg97mgBs) and around the 18:00 minute mark, the devs talk about a new system to craft furniture from ivroy, which you collect from any animal with horns or tusks.

is it just me, or is this in extremely bad taste, considering the huge problem with poachers in the real world?

I know Tamriel's wildlife is not suffering from any endangerment even remotely as bad as our world, but working with ivory still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Maybe it is just me though. What are your thoughts?

And if the devs leave that in the game... can we get a seal baby smacking mini-game, too? You know, just for the heck of it. ;-)

jedtb16_ESO

hey they have threads that trivialise racism... i don't think ivory will be a problem.

redspecter23

The slaughtering of players by the hundreds or even thousands on the battlefield is still cool though, right?

lygerseye

Suspension of disbelief. Apparently this broke your immersion?

Kalante

lol wut

Willard

Ok Serious?

SydneyGrey

I see what you're saying, but I think it's ok. It's kind of like in the Civilization games ... they have ivory selling AND whaling,* which both make me cringe, but it's just a game. Since ESO is a medieval-esque fantasy world, it's pretty realistic that they'd do ivory carving.

*Oh, and the fur trade, too. I forgot about that.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Geistertanz wrote: »

And if the devs leave that in the game... can we get a seal baby smacking mini-game, too? You know, just for the heck of it. ;-)

Plainly you've not done the 'Meat for the Masses' quest in Wrothgar. I've slaughtered dozens of Horkers for that.

Ostacia

I definitely cringed when I saw ivory. Just a dash insensitive, I'd say.

Nyladreas

Please don't bring this hippie crap into games. Thanks.

DarcyMardin

I actually had the same thought while watching ESO Live. I talked myself out of it on the grounds mentioned here (game, fiction, medieval world etc.), but it did cross my mind.

phaneub17_ESO

I agree, we should harvest materials from Dragonbone instead!

Recremen

I can see where you're coming from, but did not personally come away from it with any kind of negativity. There are some general themes in ESO that could be construed as insensitive, but it's always very clear what you're getting into. There's lots of political instability and civil war in the real world, for instance, but these topics are still touched on in-game with a probably-appropriate level of gravity. A more niche concern like ivory trade doesn't even blip my radar by comparison.

Ostacia

I'm just going to pretend that "ivory" is the remains (primarily the teeth as the skull was found to be too soft) of an ancient civilization that were so greedy, desperate, and intellectually stunted that they polluted their section of Oblivion so badly that they killed themselves off via starvation, disease, and hatred of beauty.

Taleof2Cities

Sure, it’s a huge problem in real life ... not going to trivialize that.

In-game, however, it’s pretty low on the moral spectrum ... considering there are sanctioned killings by the Morag Tong and Dark Brotherhood, for example.

Vaoh

Elder Scrolls ≠ Real Life

It would be impossible to play the majority of video games if we looked at everything this way.

The problem you mention is def very real, but in TES it’s not at all something that bothers me.

Chaos2088

Yes it is acceptable, it is a game not real life (not having a go at the statement made just saying a fact)

We go around and kill creatures and people in the game all the time. Welcome to Tamriel

DoctorESO

Geistertanz wrote: »

Hi!

First of all, if this discussion should rather go into another message board here, please move it there.

Secondly, I recently watched the housing preview video for Summerset (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8lJg97mgBs) and around the 18:00 minute mark, the devs talk about a new system to craft furniture from ivroy, which you collect from any animal with horns or tusks.

is it just me, or is this in extremely bad taste, considering the huge problem with poachers in the real world?

I know Tamriel's wildlife is not suffering from any endangerment even remotely as bad as our world, but working with ivory still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Maybe it is just me though. What are your thoughts?

And if the devs leave that in the game... can we get a seal baby smacking mini-game, too? You know, just for the heck of it. ;-)

Maybe they could use some alternate-universe material instead of ivory.

FrancisCrawford

There are two reasons ivory harvesting is widely regarded a immoral today.

• Animals, including intelligent and likable ones, are killed just to harvest a small fraction of their carcasses. Clearly, this is within the morality of ESO. (But I do usually feel bad when doing the skill point in Lion's Den.)
• Species are on the verge of extinction. Clearly, this is not a problem in ESO, especially when we consider respawn rates.

D3AKUs

Its a game. How can this even be relevant ? Ive shot hundreds of Polar Bears in TheHunter Classic and never thought a second about how they are endangered in real life. Cause its a game and i wanted that super huge bear trophy to taxidermy him and put him in my lodge.
If something like this mildly triggers u thats way more concerning.

zaria

Made more fun that ivory as in the second top heavy armor material in the old game is an mineral, it was an mine in Morrowind with it.

emilyhyoyeon

if anything the racism bothers me more than the ivory

DoctorESO

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

if anything the racism bothers me more than the ivory

The racism against dark elves and Argonians?

emilyhyoyeon

DoctorESO wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

if anything the racism bothers me more than the ivory

The racism against dark elves and Argonians?

all of it

AzureButterfly

There's actually quite a lot of creatures in Tamriel that could potentially drop ivory - Kagouti, Mammoths, Horkers, and maybe even some Daedra. Kagouti and Horkers are all over the place, and are harvested for other things too - in Morrowind you could take Kagouti hides and in Skyrim you can harvest Horker meat. Assuming some Daedra have 'ivory' bits, that's even better during the Planemeld and the years after because there's going to be a bunch of dead Daedroths and the like on Nirn. Mammoths have Giants protecting them and are pretty much walking tanks in a world where gunpowder is rare, so they probably aren't in any danger of going extinct.

There also isn't a culture on Tamriel that's been stated to use ivory medicinally, which is where a lot of the demand in our world comes from. So in a nutshell, ivory on Tamriel is both more plentiful and less desired than on Earth, so the tusked animals will probably be ok.

Minotaurs would be an issue though. They're implied to be sapient, maybe even descended from Saint Alessia herself, but people on Tamriel treat them like dumb animals. Some people would definitely kill them for their horns.

DoctorESO

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

if anything the racism bothers me more than the ivory

The racism against dark elves and Argonians?

all of it

I don't like it, either. I do think they are doing a better job at gender equality, though.

platonicidealgirlfriend

zaria wrote: »

Made more fun that ivory as in the second top heavy armor material in the old game is an mineral, it was an mine in Morrowind with it.

you might be thinking of ebony, which is suggested in lore to be the blood of lorkhan. ivory appeared in Daggerfall as an alchemy ingredient, but otherwise hasn't had that big of a presence in the games until now excepting the odd decorative item.

ETA: I get the real world considerations you're raising, but I don't really follow the representing the ivory trade in game somehow contributes to or endorses meatspace poaching, any more than references to skooma promote drug use or references to racism promote real world racist hysteria. There isn't any particular reason to think that most Tamrielic cultures would have an issue writ large to ivory as a material, and few outside of isolated groups probably care that much about ecological conservation.

Shezzarrine

The elder scrolls universe is not made to be a perfect world, where is the fun in that? The elder scrolls lore and it's depth come from such (unfortunately) realistic things in our world. Think about elder scrolls lore without racism, there would be barely any depth to racial relations because metaphysically all the mortal races are inherently racist because of what happened in the first era. This is what makes the world interesting and feel "real" in a certain sense of the word. So you can use ivory, what's the big deal? On Nirn there is no problems with ivory harvesting, no close to extinct species. And if you take offence to ending an animals life just for ivory think about soul gems, you are litterally using an animals soul to power the magic on your weapon.

Tldr: This is a fantasy game that gets it's depth from unsavory things, it's not the real world.

Willard

I think my Argonian has Ivory Spikes--They better go hide:)

SydneyGrey

Willard wrote: »

I think my Argonian has Ivory Spikes--They better go hide:)

LOL. My Argonian has horns, too. They'd make more than just a handbag out of him.

PrinceDamien

When I saw them crafting from Ivory I really felt an urge to go out and hunt me a big elephant to craft my own pretty statue.
Anyone wanna join me? We can get more Ivory if we team up.

I'm done with killing people everytime I go outside just to get some milk. Since killing is all I know from playing ESO.
It will be a nice break to finally sit down and do some fine crafting for once.