Since Morrowind is coming to ESO Plus...

Tandor

RupzSkooma wrote: »

Delta1038 wrote: »

RupzSkoma, you assume dishonesty, unless you are on their marketing and strategy board you do not know. Maybe they had intended to do thigs differently, maybe this is always what they had planned. We will never know but there is no dishonesty here, just something you do not care for. They never lied because they never said anything about it. Also a year is very much a long time in the gaming industry, extremely long as a matter of fact. In an industry of constantly changing interests, technology, and cultural trends in which games can work off of, a year is a big deal.
Who cares what WoW does, they are different games, WoW does not set the standard to which all games must meet. Summerset has Jewelry crafting sure, it also has new areas, quests, gear, creatures, etc., if that does not entice you or you feel cheaped out from Morrowind, that is fine. But I know that I got exactly what I expected and more from Morrowind and totally am fine with the way they are packaging Summerset and see no reason anyone should be “compensated”.

Lying or not it was their mistake.They should have told us during it's release.
1 year is not a huge time for online products and I am in the industry (game_engine programmer and a fullStack webDev and an active gamer for 20 years).
What they did was either they being dishonest or made a mistake not knowing.
It is not consumer entitlement rather consumer expectation to get a compensation.

I always like to get what I pay for.I don't like paying for things I would not use.If I can get summerset isle without Jewellery crafting after a year I'll take that.

Reason for them getting compensation because.
1)They said ESO plus member will not get Morrowind.Which is not true.

I wasn't an ESO plus member when Morrowind launched so IDC about that but the people who were legimately need to get compensated.
For me I would have loved to purchase Morrowind without Warden class.Even though Warden class is now my main but that is because I forced myself to create a new toon as I paid for warden class.

Another game of the same genre is doing something(being upfront to the consumer) better and you are saying why should eso follow it.Personally I hate WoW but I can't find the logic behind it.I can say the same for Guild Wars 2.

Which you did.

Next entitlement thread please.

DaveMoeDee

clocksstoppe wrote: »

There is nothing entitled about asking for compensation in this one case. Do I really need to remind everyone that ZOS *** over Plus members by lying to us, then charging ridiculous prices for a dlc tier new zone, and now giving us the second middle finger by never telling us they intended to turn these into regular dlcs as they should have been from the start?

What did you think they would do with the chapters?

The old chapters are part of the base game now for new players. They can also charge a little more for the base game than they would if it didn't include Morrowind. The only reason why they add the chapters and such to the crown store is that some people already own the base game but not Morrowind. There needs to be a way for them to still get Morrowind, though it is no longer being sold separately and new game codes often don't work with old games in the past.

Yes, the whole chapter thing was a bait and switch one year ago. The news this year is not a problem.

But people who want something to complain about will find something to complain about.

VaranisArano

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

There is nothing entitled about asking for compensation in this one case. Do I really need to remind everyone that ZOS *** over Plus members by lying to us, then charging ridiculous prices for a dlc tier new zone, and now giving us the second middle finger by never telling us they intended to turn these into regular dlcs as they should have been from the start?

What did you think they would do with the chapters?

The old chapters are part of the base game now for new players. They can also charge a little more for the base game than they would if it didn't include Morrowind. The only reason why they add the chapters and such to the crown store is that some people already own the base game but not Morrowind. There needs to be a way for them to still get Morrowind, though it is no longer being sold separately and new game codes often don't work with old games in the past.

Yes, the whole chapter thing was a bait and switch one year ago. The news this year is not a problem.

But people who want something to complain about will find something to complain about.

The news this year is that everything we said last year about Morrowind Chapter being a bat-and-switch excuse to get ESO+ subscribers to pay for DLC was right.

Tandor

VaranisArano wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

There is nothing entitled about asking for compensation in this one case. Do I really need to remind everyone that ZOS *** over Plus members by lying to us, then charging ridiculous prices for a dlc tier new zone, and now giving us the second middle finger by never telling us they intended to turn these into regular dlcs as they should have been from the start?

What did you think they would do with the chapters?

The old chapters are part of the base game now for new players. They can also charge a little more for the base game than they would if it didn't include Morrowind. The only reason why they add the chapters and such to the crown store is that some people already own the base game but not Morrowind. There needs to be a way for them to still get Morrowind, though it is no longer being sold separately and new game codes often don't work with old games in the past.

Yes, the whole chapter thing was a bait and switch one year ago. The news this year is not a problem.

But people who want something to complain about will find something to complain about.

The news this year is that everything we said last year about Morrowind Chapter being a bat-and-switch excuse to get ESO+ subscribers to pay for DLC was right.

Except that subscribers don't get the whole chapter, they have to pay extra for the warden. Subscribers get the Morrowind zone and stories, that's the only benefit, and they only get that a year after those who bought it. Everyone now gets Battlegrounds as part of the base game, and that was so predictable that surely there can't be a single player who thought that ZOS would only ever permit access to a core part of the PvP system to players who purchased a 2017 chapter?

The concept of incorporating past expansions into a revised base game is nothing new, most developers have been following it for years - EQ2 for example. I seem to recall that only recently people were complaining that ESO would be of no appeal to new players because they'd have to pay so much to catch up existing players - well now that's no longer a problem so people have to find something else to complain about instead!

Merlin13KAGL

Had you prepurchased Morrowind originally, a discount on Summerset, esp collector's edition wouldn't be out of the question.

It would still provide the benefit for new people, and a courtesy for the original purchasers. Think of it like a rebate, more than outright compensation.

Synthwavius

Delta1038 wrote: »

You did get something, you got to play Morrowind for a year before other people did and got to enjoy the story, locale, gear, etc.. i am glad I bought it and have already done so for Summerset, so when the next chapter comes out a year later and they do the same with Summerset, I will be looking forward to buying that one too.

what about people who had it for weeks or month or two?

jedtb16_ESO

Tandor wrote: »

RupzSkooma wrote: »

Delta1038 wrote: »

RupzSkoma, you assume dishonesty, unless you are on their marketing and strategy board you do not know. Maybe they had intended to do thigs differently, maybe this is always what they had planned. We will never know but there is no dishonesty here, just something you do not care for. They never lied because they never said anything about it. Also a year is very much a long time in the gaming industry, extremely long as a matter of fact. In an industry of constantly changing interests, technology, and cultural trends in which games can work off of, a year is a big deal.
Who cares what WoW does, they are different games, WoW does not set the standard to which all games must meet. Summerset has Jewelry crafting sure, it also has new areas, quests, gear, creatures, etc., if that does not entice you or you feel cheaped out from Morrowind, that is fine. But I know that I got exactly what I expected and more from Morrowind and totally am fine with the way they are packaging Summerset and see no reason anyone should be “compensated”.

Lying or not it was their mistake.They should have told us during it's release.
1 year is not a huge time for online products and I am in the industry (game_engine programmer and a fullStack webDev and an active gamer for 20 years).
What they did was either they being dishonest or made a mistake not knowing.
It is not consumer entitlement rather consumer expectation to get a compensation.

I always like to get what I pay for.I don't like paying for things I would not use.If I can get summerset isle without Jewellery crafting after a year I'll take that.

Reason for them getting compensation because.
1)They said ESO plus member will not get Morrowind.Which is not true.

I wasn't an ESO plus member when Morrowind launched so IDC about that but the people who were legimately need to get compensated.
For me I would have loved to purchase Morrowind without Warden class.Even though Warden class is now my main but that is because I forced myself to create a new toon as I paid for warden class.

Another game of the same genre is doing something(being upfront to the consumer) better and you are saying why should eso follow it.Personally I hate WoW but I can't find the logic behind it.I can say the same for Guild Wars 2.

Which you did.

Next entitlement thread please.

there will be at least three more along quite soon....

ParaNostram

Honestly it's to help keep the barrier of entry for new players low.

VaranisArano

Tandor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

There is nothing entitled about asking for compensation in this one case. Do I really need to remind everyone that ZOS *** over Plus members by lying to us, then charging ridiculous prices for a dlc tier new zone, and now giving us the second middle finger by never telling us they intended to turn these into regular dlcs as they should have been from the start?

What did you think they would do with the chapters?

The old chapters are part of the base game now for new players. They can also charge a little more for the base game than they would if it didn't include Morrowind. The only reason why they add the chapters and such to the crown store is that some people already own the base game but not Morrowind. There needs to be a way for them to still get Morrowind, though it is no longer being sold separately and new game codes often don't work with old games in the past.

Yes, the whole chapter thing was a bait and switch one year ago. The news this year is not a problem.

But people who want something to complain about will find something to complain about.

The news this year is that everything we said last year about Morrowind Chapter being a bat-and-switch excuse to get ESO+ subscribers to pay for DLC was right.

Except that subscribers don't get the whole chapter, they have to pay extra for the warden. Subscribers get the Morrowind zone and stories, that's the only benefit, and they only get that a year after those who bought it. Everyone now gets Battlegrounds as part of the base game, and that was so predictable that surely there can't be a single player who thought that ZOS would only ever permit access to a core part of the PvP system to players who purchased a 2017 chapter?

The concept of incorporating past expansions into a revised base game is nothing new, most developers have been following it for years - EQ2 for example. I seem to recall that only recently people were complaining that ESO would be of no appeal to new players because they'd have to pay so much to catch up existing players - well now that's no longer a problem so people have to find something else to complain about instead!

I dont have a problem with Morrowind being incorporated into the base game or even Battlegrounds incorporated into the base game. Those are smart moves.

I do have a problem (have had a problem with it since last year) with ZOS requiring ESO+ subscribers to buy Morrowind (zone) DLC by bundling it with a Chapter and then a year later turning around and going "oh, yeah, that's a DLC after all." When all DLCs are supposed to be included with ESO+. The Morrowind "Chapter" was an excuse to get ESO+ subscribers to pay for DLC content, and this change just shows that.

Yamenstein

RupzSkooma wrote: »

Delta1038 wrote: »

You did get something, you got to play Morrowind for a year before other people did and got to enjoy the story, locale, gear, etc.. i am glad I bought it and have already done so for Summerset, so when the next chapter comes out a year later and they do the same with Summerset, I will be looking forward to buying that one too.

The problem is they should have been upfront about it...they were dishonest.Now we know what to expect but we didn't just a year ago.A year is not much of a time even in gaming industry.For WOW it is 2 years.
I'll cancel my digital collector edition of SS chapter because I am not interested in Jwellery crafting.
It is not about Morrowind being cheaper...which is expected but it is about including in the subscription without any prior notice at it's release.

That's jumping to conclusions. We aren't sure when they planned on making Morrowind part of ESO+. Keep in mind you get to only enjoy the zone and quests, not the class.

If you buy the zone in the crown store it will cost you x amount, if you then bought the class it would cost y amount. If you pre order summerset you get it for z amount (keep in mind you get summerset plus other bonuses).what's the chance that x + y => z. Even if it's the same value it still won't be better than the summerset pre purchase.

Tandor

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

There is nothing entitled about asking for compensation in this one case. Do I really need to remind everyone that ZOS *** over Plus members by lying to us, then charging ridiculous prices for a dlc tier new zone, and now giving us the second middle finger by never telling us they intended to turn these into regular dlcs as they should have been from the start?

What did you think they would do with the chapters?

The old chapters are part of the base game now for new players. They can also charge a little more for the base game than they would if it didn't include Morrowind. The only reason why they add the chapters and such to the crown store is that some people already own the base game but not Morrowind. There needs to be a way for them to still get Morrowind, though it is no longer being sold separately and new game codes often don't work with old games in the past.

Yes, the whole chapter thing was a bait and switch one year ago. The news this year is not a problem.

But people who want something to complain about will find something to complain about.

The news this year is that everything we said last year about Morrowind Chapter being a bat-and-switch excuse to get ESO+ subscribers to pay for DLC was right.

Except that subscribers don't get the whole chapter, they have to pay extra for the warden. Subscribers get the Morrowind zone and stories, that's the only benefit, and they only get that a year after those who bought it. Everyone now gets Battlegrounds as part of the base game, and that was so predictable that surely there can't be a single player who thought that ZOS would only ever permit access to a core part of the PvP system to players who purchased a 2017 chapter?

The concept of incorporating past expansions into a revised base game is nothing new, most developers have been following it for years - EQ2 for example. I seem to recall that only recently people were complaining that ESO would be of no appeal to new players because they'd have to pay so much to catch up existing players - well now that's no longer a problem so people have to find something else to complain about instead!

I dont have a problem with Morrowind being incorporated into the base game or even Battlegrounds incorporated into the base game. Those are smart moves.

I do have a problem (have had a problem with it since last year) with ZOS requiring ESO+ subscribers to buy Morrowind (zone) DLC by bundling it with a Chapter and then a year later turning around and going "oh, yeah, that's a DLC after all." When all DLCs are supposed to be included with ESO+. The Morrowind "Chapter" was an excuse to get ESO+ subscribers to pay for DLC content, and this change just shows that.

Except, as I said, subscribers don't get the Morrowind Chapter included in ESO+. They only get some of it.

VaranisArano

Tandor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

There is nothing entitled about asking for compensation in this one case. Do I really need to remind everyone that ZOS *** over Plus members by lying to us, then charging ridiculous prices for a dlc tier new zone, and now giving us the second middle finger by never telling us they intended to turn these into regular dlcs as they should have been from the start?

What did you think they would do with the chapters?

The old chapters are part of the base game now for new players. They can also charge a little more for the base game than they would if it didn't include Morrowind. The only reason why they add the chapters and such to the crown store is that some people already own the base game but not Morrowind. There needs to be a way for them to still get Morrowind, though it is no longer being sold separately and new game codes often don't work with old games in the past.

Yes, the whole chapter thing was a bait and switch one year ago. The news this year is not a problem.

But people who want something to complain about will find something to complain about.

The news this year is that everything we said last year about Morrowind Chapter being a bat-and-switch excuse to get ESO+ subscribers to pay for DLC was right.

Except that subscribers don't get the whole chapter, they have to pay extra for the warden. Subscribers get the Morrowind zone and stories, that's the only benefit, and they only get that a year after those who bought it. Everyone now gets Battlegrounds as part of the base game, and that was so predictable that surely there can't be a single player who thought that ZOS would only ever permit access to a core part of the PvP system to players who purchased a 2017 chapter?

The concept of incorporating past expansions into a revised base game is nothing new, most developers have been following it for years - EQ2 for example. I seem to recall that only recently people were complaining that ESO would be of no appeal to new players because they'd have to pay so much to catch up existing players - well now that's no longer a problem so people have to find something else to complain about instead!

I dont have a problem with Morrowind being incorporated into the base game or even Battlegrounds incorporated into the base game. Those are smart moves.

I do have a problem (have had a problem with it since last year) with ZOS requiring ESO+ subscribers to buy Morrowind (zone) DLC by bundling it with a Chapter and then a year later turning around and going "oh, yeah, that's a DLC after all." When all DLCs are supposed to be included with ESO+. The Morrowind "Chapter" was an excuse to get ESO+ subscribers to pay for DLC content, and this change just shows that.

Except, as I said, subscribers don't get the Morrowind Chapter included in ESO+. They only get some of it.

No duh. However, they do get Morrowind (zone) which is a DLC. So why exactly didn't ESO+ Subscribers get that Morrowind (zone) DLC from the beginning since ESO+ is supposed to have all DLC included with it?

Morrowind (zone) - Vvardenfell if you prefer that distinction instead - was always a DLC. A DLC that ZOS bundled up with other content and charged cash for it as something bigger and better than a DLC. Now a year later, Vvardenfell turns out to have been a DC after all, and ESO+ subscribers had to pay for it if they bought the Chapter.

As far as I can tell, the new terms of ESO+ are apparently "All DLC are included in ESO+ benefits except for those DLC we're going to bundle with other upgrades and charge cash for a year as a "Chapter" and then it'll be a DLC for purposes of ESO+." I think ZOS needs to be upfront about this even if they are a year late for honesty.

Mindcr0w

Jesus Christ. As if the prices of all games don't drop/change a year+ after their release.

Oh no I can find TESIII: Morrowind on eBay for $19.99 but I paid $50.00 when it came out 16 years ago. Bethesda better compensate me for the price difference.

Tandor

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

There is nothing entitled about asking for compensation in this one case. Do I really need to remind everyone that ZOS *** over Plus members by lying to us, then charging ridiculous prices for a dlc tier new zone, and now giving us the second middle finger by never telling us they intended to turn these into regular dlcs as they should have been from the start?

What did you think they would do with the chapters?

The old chapters are part of the base game now for new players. They can also charge a little more for the base game than they would if it didn't include Morrowind. The only reason why they add the chapters and such to the crown store is that some people already own the base game but not Morrowind. There needs to be a way for them to still get Morrowind, though it is no longer being sold separately and new game codes often don't work with old games in the past.

Yes, the whole chapter thing was a bait and switch one year ago. The news this year is not a problem.

But people who want something to complain about will find something to complain about.

The news this year is that everything we said last year about Morrowind Chapter being a bat-and-switch excuse to get ESO+ subscribers to pay for DLC was right.

Except that subscribers don't get the whole chapter, they have to pay extra for the warden. Subscribers get the Morrowind zone and stories, that's the only benefit, and they only get that a year after those who bought it. Everyone now gets Battlegrounds as part of the base game, and that was so predictable that surely there can't be a single player who thought that ZOS would only ever permit access to a core part of the PvP system to players who purchased a 2017 chapter?

The concept of incorporating past expansions into a revised base game is nothing new, most developers have been following it for years - EQ2 for example. I seem to recall that only recently people were complaining that ESO would be of no appeal to new players because they'd have to pay so much to catch up existing players - well now that's no longer a problem so people have to find something else to complain about instead!

I dont have a problem with Morrowind being incorporated into the base game or even Battlegrounds incorporated into the base game. Those are smart moves.

I do have a problem (have had a problem with it since last year) with ZOS requiring ESO+ subscribers to buy Morrowind (zone) DLC by bundling it with a Chapter and then a year later turning around and going "oh, yeah, that's a DLC after all." When all DLCs are supposed to be included with ESO+. The Morrowind "Chapter" was an excuse to get ESO+ subscribers to pay for DLC content, and this change just shows that.

Except, as I said, subscribers don't get the Morrowind Chapter included in ESO+. They only get some of it.

No duh. However, they do get Morrowind (zone) which is a DLC. So why exactly didn't ESO+ Subscribers get that Morrowind (zone) DLC from the beginning since ESO+ is supposed to have all DLC included with it?

Morrowind (zone) - Vvardenfell if you prefer that distinction instead - was always a DLC. A DLC that ZOS bundled up with other content and charged cash for it as something bigger and better than a DLC. Now a year later, Vvardenfell turns out to have been a DC after all, and ESO+ subscribers had to pay for it if they bought the Chapter.

As far as I can tell, the new terms of ESO+ are apparently "All DLC are included in ESO+ benefits except for those DLC we're going to bundle with other upgrades and charge cash for a year as a "Chapter" and then it'll be a DLC for purposes of ESO+." I think ZOS needs to be upfront about this even if they are a year late for honesty.

Morrowind was called a chapter because it contained a zone plus other content. Now that the other content is partly separated for purchase in the crown store, with the rest of the other content being included in the base game, what's left by way of the zone is indeed equivalent to a DLC and is being treated as such.

I get the argument that the zone should have been included as a DLC within ESO+, but it wasn't because it was bundled with other stuff. I didn't have a problem with that at the time, and I don't have a problem with it now. I also get that some people do have a problem with it, but then some people will always have a problem with stuff no matter how it's offered. They could open their front door to find a free gift from ZOS on their doorstep and they'd still be on the forum 10 minutes later complaining about it!

VaranisArano

LaMagrank wrote: »

Jesus Christ. As if the prices of all games don't drop/change a year+ after their release.

Oh no I can find TESIII: Morrowind on eBay for $19.99 but I paid $50.00 when it came out 16 years ago. Bethesda better compensate me for the price difference.

Did Bethesda promise you all the DLC free with subscription, then label one of them "oh, this zone totally isn't a DLC with extras added like Battlegrounds and Warden" only to turn around a year later and go "Yeah, that zone is totally a DLC after all"?

I dont have a problem with lowering the price,of Morrowind or putting in the base game for new players.

I do have a problem with ZOS changing the terms of ESO+ to be "You get all DLC with the subscription (except for the latest one that we bundle with other stuff and call it a Chapter, but if you wait a year it'll be a DLC for ESO+) and not telling anyone unril now.

Mindcr0w

but if you wait a year

See previous statement about the pricing of all games changing a year + after their release.

You people act like you've never been consumers before.

Yamenstein

RupzSkooma wrote: »

Delta1038 wrote: »

You did get something, you got to play Morrowind for a year before other people did and got to enjoy the story, locale, gear, etc.. i am glad I bought it and have already done so for Summerset, so when the next chapter comes out a year later and they do the same with Summerset, I will be looking forward to buying that one too.

The problem is they should have been upfront about it...they were dishonest.Now we know what to expect but we didn't just a year ago.A year is not much of a time even in gaming industry.For WOW it is 2 years.
I'll cancel my digital collector edition of SS chapter because I am not interested in Jwellery crafting.
It is not about Morrowind being cheaper...which is expected but it is about including in the subscription without any prior notice at it's release.

That's jumping to conclusions. We aren't sure when they planned on making Morrowind part of ESO+. Keep in mind you get to only enjoy the zone and quests, not the class.

If you buy the zone in the crown store it will cost you x amount, if you then bought the class it would cost y amount. If you pre order summerset you get it for z amount (keep in mind you get summerset plus other bonuses).what's the chance that x + y => z. Even if it's the same value it still won't be better than the summerset pre purchase.

Stovahkiin

clocksstoppe wrote: »

There is nothing entitled about asking for compensation in this one case. Do I really need to remind everyone that ZOS *** over Plus members by lying to us, then charging ridiculous prices for a dlc tier new zone, and now giving us the second middle finger by never telling us they intended to turn these into regular dlcs as they should have been from the start?

It is pretty dirty imo. Its hard to trust a company that regularly goes back on their own word, but I guess most people here that are defending ZOS are just used to getting shafted by now so they think it’s normal business.

Mindcr0w

It is pretty dirty imo. Its hard to trust a company that regularly goes back on their own word, but I guess most people here that are defending ZOS are just used to getting shafted by now so they think it’s normal business.

Or they are reasonable adults who understand that the monetary value of non-tangible luxury goods like video game add-ons change over time.

Again, do you people understand how consumerism works?

I guarantee the same people who are comlaining about this are the same people who will gladly buy a 2016 or 2017 game for a third of what it sold for when it originally released and never give that a second thought.

Tapio75

You know.. World of Warcraft has done so for many expansions now...

At first, i was goinbg to complain about it, that id like at least some Dunmer specific thing as compensation, but then i remembered, that in n Warcraft, this has been a normal practice for a long trime. When thers a new expansion, the older is added to my other account which is not even active.

And they dont give anything as compenasation either. Its justy the expansion. If there was special stuff included in my purchase like xollectors edition stuff, its not incluyded.. i wish ESO woud also apreciate the fact, that collectors edition stuff is collectors edition stuff, and should not be available afterwards at any way.

VaranisArano

LaMagrank wrote: »

but if you wait a year

See previous statement about the pricing of all games changing a year + after their release.

You people act like you've never been consumers before.

Do they normally change the terms of their subscriptions without telling anyone?

GiantFruitFly

LaMagrank wrote: »

but if you wait a year

See previous statement about the pricing of all games changing a year + after their release.

You people act like you've never been consumers before.

I don't think the problem is that people have never seen pricing decrease before or been consumers before or whatnot. I presume most people are aware of things like that new cars depreciate in value, prices will go lower before obsolescence by a new model, that the housing and renting market have price fluctuations, etc. etc, and that such pricing trends also apply to other markets, like games. Presumably many of those who have complaints have purchased the Morrowind and Summerset chapters anyways.

The problem is that there is elements of bitterness and distrust from last year where zos defined what could have been a compilation of dlc as a chapter, thus making it not covered by eso+ or buyable with crowns. Zos and the forums seemed to spend a lot of effort emphasizing that no, it isn't a dlc, its a chapter, only for now to be proved that in the end it was all a jumble of dlc that can be obtained from the crown store and eso+. So it seems the whole chapter thing was to avoid giving people what was promised in eso+ and to charge separately for it. Which is business, of course, but they could have been more upfront about it instead of doing a "we are altering the deal" and changing the terms.

VaranisArano wrote: »

I dont have a problem with lowering the price,of Morrowind or putting in the base game for new players.

I do have a problem with ZOS changing the terms of ESO+ to be "You get all DLC with the subscription (except for the latest one that we bundle with other stuff and call it a Chapter, but if you wait a year it'll be a DLC for ESO+) and not telling anyone unril now.

Since it is shown that the chapters are just a bunch of dlc in a bundle, capable of being broken up and eso+'d and sold in the crown store, perhaps the chapter model should change again anyways. The chapter zone and all the other stuff that usually comes with dlc zones can be partitioned into dlc and eso+ on launch, with the other new features remaining separate purchases. For example, at release the Summerset(zone) can be turned into a dlc that eso+ covers and is buyable in the crown store, while jewelrycrafting and psijic order skill line can be sold separately for like $19.99 instead of $29.99, and then made regular dlc in a year.

Mindcr0w

Do they normally change the terms of their subscriptions without telling anyone?

In terms of what their add ons cost a year+ after their release? YES.

What part of this is difficult to understand?

Delta1038

Synthwavius wrote: »

Delta1038 wrote: »

You did get something, you got to play Morrowind for a year before other people did and got to enjoy the story, locale, gear, etc.. i am glad I bought it and have already done so for Summerset, so when the next chapter comes out a year later and they do the same with Summerset, I will be looking forward to buying that one too.

what about people who had it for weeks or month or two?

That is bad luck for them, oh well c’est la vie. Eat a cookie, think happy thoughts, and get over it. I literally had that happen to me in the past few weeks with something else game related, its just that though, bad luck. Perhaps they could have done some more research and maybe a hint that has been floating around about a new chapter being announced then maybe they could have decided to wait and see what the deal would be then. But ultimately, that is just bad luck, no entitled compensation warranted but a sympathetic pat on the back because as I said In the beginning, c’est la vie.

RupzSkooma

Tandor wrote: »

RupzSkooma wrote: »

Delta1038 wrote: »

RupzSkoma, you assume dishonesty, unless you are on their marketing and strategy board you do not know. Maybe they had intended to do thigs differently, maybe this is always what they had planned. We will never know but there is no dishonesty here, just something you do not care for. They never lied because they never said anything about it. Also a year is very much a long time in the gaming industry, extremely long as a matter of fact. In an industry of constantly changing interests, technology, and cultural trends in which games can work off of, a year is a big deal.
Who cares what WoW does, they are different games, WoW does not set the standard to which all games must meet. Summerset has Jewelry crafting sure, it also has new areas, quests, gear, creatures, etc., if that does not entice you or you feel cheaped out from Morrowind, that is fine. But I know that I got exactly what I expected and more from Morrowind and totally am fine with the way they are packaging Summerset and see no reason anyone should be “compensated”.

Lying or not it was their mistake.They should have told us during it's release.
1 year is not a huge time for online products and I am in the industry (game_engine programmer and a fullStack webDev and an active gamer for 20 years).
What they did was either they being dishonest or made a mistake not knowing.
It is not consumer entitlement rather consumer expectation to get a compensation.

I always like to get what I pay for.I don't like paying for things I would not use.If I can get summerset isle without Jewellery crafting after a year I'll take that.

Reason for them getting compensation because.
1)They said ESO plus member will not get Morrowind.Which is not true.

I wasn't an ESO plus member when Morrowind launched so IDC about that but the people who were legimately need to get compensated.
For me I would have loved to purchase Morrowind without Warden class.Even though Warden class is now my main but that is because I forced myself to create a new toon as I paid for warden class.

Another game of the same genre is doing something(being upfront to the consumer) better and you are saying why should eso follow it.Personally I hate WoW but I can't find the logic behind it.I can say the same for Guild Wars 2.

Which you did.

Next entitlement thread please.

I did not.I played for Battlegrounds too which I haven't used.Just because of it being in a bundle.
There is a different between entitlement and consumer rights like I said.They marketed it false during release.

VaranisArano

LaMagrank wrote: »

Do they normally change the terms of their subscriptions without telling anyone?

In terms of what their add ons cost a year+ after their release? YES.

What part of this is difficult to understand?

The part that you don't understand that its nothing to do with price. Nothing to do with the cost of DLC or Chapters. So quit trying to argue that with me because that's not the point I'm making. I've got no problems with ZOS discounting old chapters or DLC.

I do have a problem with the way ZOS effectively changed the terms of ESO+. And didn't tell anyone.

ESO+ was supposed to give access to all DLC. No Chapters or the content in them, those are cash only, because those totally aren't bundled DLC.

Now ESO+ gives subscribers access to all DLC (except for the latest one that ZOS bundles with other stuff and calls it a Chapter, but if subscribers wait a year it'll be a DLC for ESO+). And they didn't tell anyone this until now.

Basically, Morrowind (zone) totally wasn't a DLC until ZOS admitted that it was. And since its a DLC, ESO+ subscribers should have had access to it or at least ZOS should have been upfront that they'd get ESO+ access in a year.

Finally, I don't know how to make it any more clear that this isn't about the price. Its about ZOS effectively changing the terms of ESO+ without informing customers a year ago. ZOS effectively made ESO+ subscribers who bought the Chapter pay for the Morrowind (zone) DLC by bundling it BGs and Warden with Morrowind Chapter.

Ideally, ZOS should have either released Morrowind (zone), a BG DLC or base game, and Warden Upgrade OR ZOS should have been upfront with ESO+ subscribers that Morrowind (zone) DLC would be delayed a year for ESO+. That would have been a change to the ESO+ terms, but it would have been an upfront change, not a year late after they've already got subscribers' money.

Mindcr0w

The part that you don't understand that its nothing to do with price. Nothing to do with the cost of DLC or Chapters. So quit trying to argue that with me because that's not the point I'm making. I've got no problems with ZOS discounting old chapters or DLC.

I do have a problem with the way ZOS effectively changed the terms of ESO+

Blah blah blah.

Six more paragraphs spent trying to justify how price changes in outdated video game content are fine except when they apply to you.

Many tears shed.

The fact that subscription fees factor into the situation does not change the fact that you people are complaining about a video game add on being discounted a year after it's initial release...

If you can't see how this is a non-complaint about a non-issue that marks you as an unreasonable consumer then I don't know how else to help you other than to tell you to grow up.

Jhalin

LaMagrank wrote: »

The part that you don't understand that its nothing to do with price. Nothing to do with the cost of DLC or Chapters. So quit trying to argue that with me because that's not the point I'm making. I've got no problems with ZOS discounting old chapters or DLC.

I do have a problem with the way ZOS effectively changed the terms of ESO+

Blah blah blah.

Six more paragraphs spent trying to justify how price changes in outdated video game content are fine except when they apply to you.

Many tears shed.

The fact that subscription fees factor into the situation does not change the fact that you people are complaining about a video game add on being discounted a year after it's initial release...

If you can't see how this is a non-complaint about a non-issue that marks you as an unreasonable consumer then I don't know how else to help you other than to tell you to grow up.

Contrary to what you seem to think, reading comprehension is actually important in the adult world.

You clearly haven't read a single word of what's being presented, or you have absolutely no meaningful arguemnets to refute these points with and have decided to pretend you can't see it so people won't call you out on your bs.

Mindcr0w

You are certainly entitled to your incorrect opinion.

You can convince yourself of an indefensible position all day long and claim people who disagree with you don't "comprehend" your point if that makes you feel better.

Doesn't change the realities of the market. Doesn't make you any less unreasonable.

VaranisArano

LaMagrank wrote: »

The part that you don't understand that its nothing to do with price. Nothing to do with the cost of DLC or Chapters. So quit trying to argue that with me because that's not the point I'm making. I've got no problems with ZOS discounting old chapters or DLC.

I do have a problem with the way ZOS effectively changed the terms of ESO+

Blah blah blah.

Six more paragraphs spent trying to justify how price changes in outdated video game content are fine except when they apply to you.

Many tears shed.

The fact that subscription fees factor into the situation does not change the fact that you people are complaining about a video game add on being discounted a year after it's initial release...

If you can't see how this is a non-complaint about a non-issue that marks you as an unreasonable consumer then I don't know how else to help you other than to tell you to grow up.

That awkward moment when it becomes clear that no amount of explaining is going to suffice get the point across, especially since your response makes it impossible to tell if you persistently misunderstood me because I wasn't clear or you just didn't read or you disagree but can't be bothered to engage respectfully.

I think we're done here, since I'm repeating myself, you are misrepresenting my points, and therefore neither of us is going to change each other's minds or engage in actual debate. Word of advice: its hard to have an actual debate when you don't bother to comprehend and engage the opposing side and then resort to insults instead.

Edited to clarify: Based on a more recent post of yours, I surmise that you have indeed comprehended my argument and just disagree. Splendid! I hate thinking we disagree because I've explained my point of view poorly. Disagreeing because you think I'm wrong is fine by me. We've been debating; I don't expect to convince everyone.

That being said, I stand by my word of advice. Insults, misrepresenting the opposing side, and not engaging respectfully rarely make for a good debate.