Now is the perfect time to officially introduce the dragonbreak, jills

Waffennacht

aliyavana wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

A Dragon Break is a very lazy way to justify lore inconsistancies, it's a deus ex machina, really. If they'll introduce it, I'm will be very disappointed in overall course of TES universe development. Lore tells us, that Dragon Break is a very specific feature, it have a place only when some real crazy stuff happens, or, more precisely, when the Dragon God of Time have an interest in the Nirn history and he can't fix things otherwise. It's hard to speculate about motivation of god, but... A good example of abusing omnipotent lore concept is the Force in the new Star Wars by Di$ney. Now it's used to justify questionable plot, it lost an immersive feature, now there is no real bounds for the Force, but only laziness of scriptwriters. I think, damage done by One Tamriel and chapters still can be fixed without deus ex machina trick.
P.S. Thank you OP for an interesting information regarding this peculiar type of dragons... not really 'dragons', but not 'drakes' either. Never heard of it. I thought, dragons don't have genders at all, in any sense.

A dragonbreak would be a wonderful solution to why the player has the freedom to go and do a future dlc like imperial city or craglorn which take place after the main quest, and then come back and do a zone that takes place in the past instead of just having a "its a mmo with mmo mechanics" method

I don't think a dragon break would explain that though. Afaik dragonbreaks are where multiple "verses" take place, having different outcomes starting at a single event. It then has all the lines re-merge later. It doesn't involve a single individual going between the lines, nor back and forth through time. Again, only afaik, the only like Psijic peeps, those whom achieve CHIM and daedric princes have these kinds of capabilities

Aliyavana

Waffennacht wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

A Dragon Break is a very lazy way to justify lore inconsistancies, it's a deus ex machina, really. If they'll introduce it, I'm will be very disappointed in overall course of TES universe development. Lore tells us, that Dragon Break is a very specific feature, it have a place only when some real crazy stuff happens, or, more precisely, when the Dragon God of Time have an interest in the Nirn history and he can't fix things otherwise. It's hard to speculate about motivation of god, but... A good example of abusing omnipotent lore concept is the Force in the new Star Wars by Di$ney. Now it's used to justify questionable plot, it lost an immersive feature, now there is no real bounds for the Force, but only laziness of scriptwriters. I think, damage done by One Tamriel and chapters still can be fixed without deus ex machina trick.
P.S. Thank you OP for an interesting information regarding this peculiar type of dragons... not really 'dragons', but not 'drakes' either. Never heard of it. I thought, dragons don't have genders at all, in any sense.

A dragonbreak would be a wonderful solution to why the player has the freedom to go and do a future dlc like imperial city or craglorn which take place after the main quest, and then come back and do a zone that takes place in the past instead of just having a "its a mmo with mmo mechanics" method

I don't think a dragon break would explain that though. Afaik dragonbreaks are where multiple "verses" take place, having different outcomes starting at a single event. It then has all the lines re-merge later. It doesn't involve a single individual going between the lines, nor back and forth through time. Again, only afaik, the only like Psijic peeps, those whom achieve CHIM and daedric princes have these kinds of capabilities

Cadwells silver and gold take place at the same time, and all the characters remember you regardless of faction you started off with and the decisions you made in cadwells affect their reactions to you in dlc. Its safe to assume that you timetraveled and all three outcomes of cadwells lead onto coldharbour and winning. I an ad player who finished cadwells silver shouldn't be recongnized by naryu in the gold coast but she did so clearly meridia's "they wont recongnize you" didn't work and all three events are not what if scenarios and are real.

Waffennacht

aliyavana wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

A Dragon Break is a very lazy way to justify lore inconsistancies, it's a deus ex machina, really. If they'll introduce it, I'm will be very disappointed in overall course of TES universe development. Lore tells us, that Dragon Break is a very specific feature, it have a place only when some real crazy stuff happens, or, more precisely, when the Dragon God of Time have an interest in the Nirn history and he can't fix things otherwise. It's hard to speculate about motivation of god, but... A good example of abusing omnipotent lore concept is the Force in the new Star Wars by Di$ney. Now it's used to justify questionable plot, it lost an immersive feature, now there is no real bounds for the Force, but only laziness of scriptwriters. I think, damage done by One Tamriel and chapters still can be fixed without deus ex machina trick.
P.S. Thank you OP for an interesting information regarding this peculiar type of dragons... not really 'dragons', but not 'drakes' either. Never heard of it. I thought, dragons don't have genders at all, in any sense.

A dragonbreak would be a wonderful solution to why the player has the freedom to go and do a future dlc like imperial city or craglorn which take place after the main quest, and then come back and do a zone that takes place in the past instead of just having a "its a mmo with mmo mechanics" method

I don't think a dragon break would explain that though. Afaik dragonbreaks are where multiple "verses" take place, having different outcomes starting at a single event. It then has all the lines re-merge later. It doesn't involve a single individual going between the lines, nor back and forth through time. Again, only afaik, the only like Psijic peeps, those whom achieve CHIM and daedric princes have these kinds of capabilities

Cadwells silver and gold take place at the same time, and all the characters remember you regardless of faction you started off with and the decisions you made in cadwells affect their reactions to you. Its safe to assume that since you timetraveled all three outcomes of cadwells lead onto coldharbour and winning.

Caldwell says right off the bat that he's gonna use the power of meridia (the daedric prince) to "show" you the other side. It's pretty filmsy to base time travel on Caldwell's silver/gold and the lack of dialogue variation of NPCs

Aliyavana

Waffennacht wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

A Dragon Break is a very lazy way to justify lore inconsistancies, it's a deus ex machina, really. If they'll introduce it, I'm will be very disappointed in overall course of TES universe development. Lore tells us, that Dragon Break is a very specific feature, it have a place only when some real crazy stuff happens, or, more precisely, when the Dragon God of Time have an interest in the Nirn history and he can't fix things otherwise. It's hard to speculate about motivation of god, but... A good example of abusing omnipotent lore concept is the Force in the new Star Wars by Di$ney. Now it's used to justify questionable plot, it lost an immersive feature, now there is no real bounds for the Force, but only laziness of scriptwriters. I think, damage done by One Tamriel and chapters still can be fixed without deus ex machina trick.
P.S. Thank you OP for an interesting information regarding this peculiar type of dragons... not really 'dragons', but not 'drakes' either. Never heard of it. I thought, dragons don't have genders at all, in any sense.

A dragonbreak would be a wonderful solution to why the player has the freedom to go and do a future dlc like imperial city or craglorn which take place after the main quest, and then come back and do a zone that takes place in the past instead of just having a "its a mmo with mmo mechanics" method

I don't think a dragon break would explain that though. Afaik dragonbreaks are where multiple "verses" take place, having different outcomes starting at a single event. It then has all the lines re-merge later. It doesn't involve a single individual going between the lines, nor back and forth through time. Again, only afaik, the only like Psijic peeps, those whom achieve CHIM and daedric princes have these kinds of capabilities

Cadwells silver and gold take place at the same time, and all the characters remember you regardless of faction you started off with and the decisions you made in cadwells affect their reactions to you. Its safe to assume that since you timetraveled all three outcomes of cadwells lead onto coldharbour and winning.

Caldwell says right off the bat that he's gonna use the power of meridia (the daedric prince) to "show" you the other side. It's pretty filmsy to base time travel on Caldwell's silver/gold and the lack of dialogue variation of NPCs

he said that no one would recognize you and be cloaked with meridias power and show you could be interpreted as a "What if" scenario, however, have you seen cadwell? he isn't really sane although he is a great person. In the end this cloak from being recongnized didn't work as darien, naryu, and other ep and dc characters recongnize me in dlcs after I completed cadwells gold. Essentially I believe we timetraveled and we are in 3 places at once helping out all 3 factions with their problems.

Alternatly, maybe all 3 faction characters see us as 3 different people?

VaranisArano

aliyavana wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Nope

Enslaved wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Nope

This.

no explanation given for nope which doesn't stimulate good discussion

It doesn't need an explanation, because its not a thing and never will be.

"Jills" are not real lore so just no.

As for the idea of "ermergerd dragonbreak!" We know when Dragonbreaks have happened in the time line. The last one was in 1E 1200 due to the Alessian Order's actions. And the next one will not happen until 2E 854 when Tiber Septim Uses Numidium. The one after that is in 3E 417, known as the Warp in The West.

All of the "evidence" you listed is just the resulting inconsistency that comes with an MMO (and one of the reasons that many argue ESO should be excluded from canon).

"And the next one will not happen until 2E 854 when Tiber Septim Uses Numidium." That is always subject to change, as a lot of records were lost in this time period. For example, how come the planemeld, a huge planetary invasion not be mentioned in any past elder scrolls games? and so lore is always subject to be added onto.

Its not mentioned the canon games because the lore explanation for ESO is that all the records were lost/chaos of war/no one aside from enduring entities like the Princes or the Tribunal really remember it (and the Tribunal would probably like to forget it...)

Otherwise, the plot of Oblivion would be pretty different.

dodgehopper_ESO

What the hell is a 'Jill' and why are they called that? What is the source (IN GAME SOURCE)? I'm skeptical.

Rosveen

aliyavana wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

A Dragon Break is a very lazy way to justify lore inconsistancies, it's a deus ex machina, really. If they'll introduce it, I'm will be very disappointed in overall course of TES universe development. Lore tells us, that Dragon Break is a very specific feature, it have a place only when some real crazy stuff happens, or, more precisely, when the Dragon God of Time have an interest in the Nirn history and he can't fix things otherwise. It's hard to speculate about motivation of god, but... A good example of abusing omnipotent lore concept is the Force in the new Star Wars by Di$ney. Now it's used to justify questionable plot, it lost an immersive feature, now there is no real bounds for the Force, but only laziness of scriptwriters. I think, damage done by One Tamriel and chapters still can be fixed without deus ex machina trick.
P.S. Thank you OP for an interesting information regarding this peculiar type of dragons... not really 'dragons', but not 'drakes' either. Never heard of it. I thought, dragons don't have genders at all, in any sense.

A dragonbreak would be a wonderful solution to why the player has the freedom to go and do a future dlc like imperial city or craglorn which take place after the main quest, and then come back and do a zone that takes place in the past instead of just having a "its a mmo with mmo mechanics" method

I don't think a dragon break would explain that though. Afaik dragonbreaks are where multiple "verses" take place, having different outcomes starting at a single event. It then has all the lines re-merge later. It doesn't involve a single individual going between the lines, nor back and forth through time. Again, only afaik, the only like Psijic peeps, those whom achieve CHIM and daedric princes have these kinds of capabilities

Cadwells silver and gold take place at the same time

Not necessarily. Some zones may overlap, but there are reasons to believe the alliance stories don't start at the same time and actually go Pact -> Covenant -> Dominion. Reason: ingame texts which include dates and references to events from other alliances. For example, Rana's log on Bleakrock ends on Sun's Dawn (2nd month of the year), whereas some notes on Khenarti's Roost go all the way to Last Seed (8th month).

You'd think the timelines need to converge at some point because all three leaders go to Stirk at the same time, but that originally happened after finishing the alliance story - so time might have passed between the last quest and Messages Across Tamriel without us knowing about it for gameplay reasons.

Still, even if it's true, it doesn't explain your journey back in time if you start in the Dominion.

Aliyavana

Rosveen wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

A Dragon Break is a very lazy way to justify lore inconsistancies, it's a deus ex machina, really. If they'll introduce it, I'm will be very disappointed in overall course of TES universe development. Lore tells us, that Dragon Break is a very specific feature, it have a place only when some real crazy stuff happens, or, more precisely, when the Dragon God of Time have an interest in the Nirn history and he can't fix things otherwise. It's hard to speculate about motivation of god, but... A good example of abusing omnipotent lore concept is the Force in the new Star Wars by Di$ney. Now it's used to justify questionable plot, it lost an immersive feature, now there is no real bounds for the Force, but only laziness of scriptwriters. I think, damage done by One Tamriel and chapters still can be fixed without deus ex machina trick.
P.S. Thank you OP for an interesting information regarding this peculiar type of dragons... not really 'dragons', but not 'drakes' either. Never heard of it. I thought, dragons don't have genders at all, in any sense.

A dragonbreak would be a wonderful solution to why the player has the freedom to go and do a future dlc like imperial city or craglorn which take place after the main quest, and then come back and do a zone that takes place in the past instead of just having a "its a mmo with mmo mechanics" method

I don't think a dragon break would explain that though. Afaik dragonbreaks are where multiple "verses" take place, having different outcomes starting at a single event. It then has all the lines re-merge later. It doesn't involve a single individual going between the lines, nor back and forth through time. Again, only afaik, the only like Psijic peeps, those whom achieve CHIM and daedric princes have these kinds of capabilities

Cadwells silver and gold take place at the same time

Not necessarily. Some zones may overlap, but there are reasons to believe the alliance stories don't start at the same time and actually go Pact -> Covenant -> Dominion. Reason: ingame texts which include dates and references to events from other alliances. For example, Rana's log on Bleakrock ends on Sun's Dawn (2nd month of the year), whereas some notes on Khenarti's Roost go all the way to Last Seed (8th month).

You'd think the timelines need to converge at some point because all three leaders go to Stirk at the same time, but that originally happened after finishing the alliance story - so time might have passed between the last quest and Messages Across Tamriel without us knowing about it for gameplay reasons.

Still, even if it's true, it doesn't explain your journey back in time if you start in the Dominion.

if you start in the dominion, nothing stops meridia from sending you back even further in time to help with ep and dc affairs

Tyrobag

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

What the hell is a 'Jill' and why are they called that? What is the source (IN GAME SOURCE)? I'm skeptical.

There is not an in game source, because they aren't a thing. They're called that because someone didn't realize it sounded silly.

Skepticism is good.

Radinyn

Lul no

FleetwoodSmack

I think this thread needs to make like a dragon and break.

Rosveen

Tyrobag wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

What the hell is a 'Jill' and why are they called that? What is the source (IN GAME SOURCE)? I'm skeptical.

There is not an in game source, because they aren't a thing. They're called that because someone didn't realize it sounded silly.

Skepticism is good.

"From The Many-Headed Talos" wasn't canon until it was.
Kalpas weren't canon until they were.
Amaranth wasn't canon until it was.
Towers weren't canon until they were.

Many concepts exist in lore, but remain unnamed until, you guessed it, someone finally mentions them. The Towers are especially pertinent because the Nu-Mantia Intercept, the same document that mentions Jills, was also the first one to openly discuss Towers, which are now acknowledged and talked about as a totally normal and valid part of canon.

The thing is, canon doesn't mean much in TES. Ingame texts, out of game texts, dev commentary, forum riddles, loremaster's archives... It's all worthy of reading and debating as long as it expands the universe in an interesting way. Some of it is totally ridiculous, sure, but that's the fun of it. Should all of it become official canon? Of course not, but there's nothing wrong with hoping that some of it will - the bits that make sense, that fit with existing lore, that answer our questions in a satisfactory and thought-provoking way.

AdamBourke

How long is this talk about Dragon Breaks going to drag on for?

I'm sorry, I stole that joke from LEGO: The Hobbit... but I love it.

Thevampirenight

Well its obvious its a dragonbreak. Basically the vestige is a break in time. Does not need to be made official because it is in fact a dragonbreak. Also Varen says something about you being a wound in time. the elder scrolls talk about us. We play an important part and also I think gathering all the skyshards one way we help repair time. Our charaters the soulless ones are the dragonbreak.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

yes cuz unicorns already happened!

dodgehopper_ESO

Rosveen wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

What the hell is a 'Jill' and why are they called that? What is the source (IN GAME SOURCE)? I'm skeptical.

There is not an in game source, because they aren't a thing. They're called that because someone didn't realize it sounded silly.

Skepticism is good.

"From The Many-Headed Talos" wasn't canon until it was.
Kalpas weren't canon until they were.
Amaranth wasn't canon until it was.
Towers weren't canon until they were.

Many concepts exist in lore, but remain unnamed until, you guessed it, someone finally mentions them. The Towers are especially pertinent because the Nu-Mantia Intercept, the same document that mentions Jills, was also the first one to openly discuss Towers, which are now acknowledged and talked about as a totally normal and valid part of canon.

The thing is, canon doesn't mean much in TES. Ingame texts, out of game texts, dev commentary, forum riddles, loremaster's archives... It's all worthy of reading and debating as long as it expands the universe in an interesting way. Some of it is totally ridiculous, sure, but that's the fun of it. Should all of it become official canon? Of course not, but there's nothing wrong with hoping that some of it will - the bits that make sense, that fit with existing lore, that answer our questions in a satisfactory and thought-provoking way.

I'm fine with that. In real life one's understanding of reality changes based on new evidences. Newton's laws have been adjusted and improved upon. Einstein's General Relativity will get tweaked and fine tuned. The point is that I'm not averse to some of this stuff but I can't help but find the term 'Jill' to just be a lazy nomenclature and would really hope they don't call it that if such a thing is injected into the series/game.

VaranisArano

Rosveen wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

What the hell is a 'Jill' and why are they called that? What is the source (IN GAME SOURCE)? I'm skeptical.

There is not an in game source, because they aren't a thing. They're called that because someone didn't realize it sounded silly.

Skepticism is good.

"From The Many-Headed Talos" wasn't canon until it was.
Kalpas weren't canon until they were.
Amaranth wasn't canon until it was.
Towers weren't canon until they were.

Many concepts exist in lore, but remain unnamed until, you guessed it, someone finally mentions them. The Towers are especially pertinent because the Nu-Mantia Intercept, the same document that mentions Jills, was also the first one to openly discuss Towers, which are now acknowledged and talked about as a totally normal and valid part of canon.

The thing is, canon doesn't mean much in TES. Ingame texts, out of game texts, dev commentary, forum riddles, loremaster's archives... It's all worthy of reading and debating as long as it expands the universe in an interesting way. Some of it is totally ridiculous, sure, but that's the fun of it. Should all of it become official canon? Of course not, but there's nothing wrong with hoping that some of it will - the bits that make sense, that fit with existing lore, that answer our questions in a satisfactory and thought-provoking way.

The Many-Headed Talos isn't canon. Only the portions of it quoted in the games are.

Just like Kinmune is canon - as a conspiracy theory mentioned by a Redguard NPC,who spouts conspiracy theories in the IC base.

Aliyavana

Jills currently are not referenced ingame, only out of game, however... Several of mk works since he left has become canon, such as vivecs antlers, and the white gold coronet (or however you spell it) Even sermon 37 has seen its way into vivec but whether you want to interpret it as an Easter egg or a confirmation is up to you

Aliyavana

Rosveen wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

What the hell is a 'Jill' and why are they called that? What is the source (IN GAME SOURCE)? I'm skeptical.

There is not an in game source, because they aren't a thing. They're called that because someone didn't realize it sounded silly.

Skepticism is good.

"From The Many-Headed Talos" wasn't canon until it was.
Kalpas weren't canon until they were.
Amaranth wasn't canon until it was.
Towers weren't canon until they were.

Many concepts exist in lore, but remain unnamed until, you guessed it, someone finally mentions them. The Towers are especially pertinent because the Nu-Mantia Intercept, the same document that mentions Jills, was also the first one to openly discuss Towers, which are now acknowledged and talked about as a totally normal and valid part of canon.

The thing is, canon doesn't mean much in TES. Ingame texts, out of game texts, dev commentary, forum riddles, loremaster's archives... It's all worthy of reading and debating as long as it expands the universe in an interesting way. Some of it is totally ridiculous, sure, but that's the fun of it. Should all of it become official canon? Of course not, but there's nothing wrong with hoping that some of it will - the bits that make sense, that fit with existing lore, that answer our questions in a satisfactory and thought-provoking way.

Thevampirenight

Well the jills are basically the ones that fix time when its broken because Aka is unable to do it himself. When the Alessian order did the ritual to seperate akatosh from his elvish Aspects. They merged part of him with Lorkhan. Like The daedra did to Sheogorath to merge Order with Chaos and creating a new daedric prince of chaos Sheogorath. The Marukhati_Selective did this and by doing so Aka/Akatosh is also mad. Like Sheogorath. When the remaining Aedra killed Lorkhan. Order became unbalanced Jyggalag being one aspect of order in the universe that was not driven insane or truely chaotic he grew more and more powerful. The daedric princes cursed jyggalag to save their influence in mundus. Because the void was sealing up for them. Because of jyggalags power and lorkhans death. Sheogorath is balance, without him reality would be be pure order because order would dominate and no one would have free will.. Being a balance between Order and Chaos. The Role Jyggalag and Sheogorath Play. Because Akatosh and Lorkhan are both out of commission. Jyggalag and Sheogorath have to play those roles.

Aka Overgod the god of order and is alive . Jyggalag is daedric prince of order driven insane and is dead but returns at the end of every Era. Hes the missing Prince. Because Lorkhan is missing and dead . Sheogorath is Maddess and and chaos while also being creativity replacing Lorkhan in this regard . So Sheogorath Plays the Role Lorkhan use to play just playing it while insane.
Order and Chaos must always exist. What happens on one side has to happen on the other. This is the crossover effect. When oblivion is invading mundus beings of mundus are invading Oblivion. When the main Anuic god of order is driven insane. The Daedric version has to be driven insane too. When a god of chaos dies. A God of Order has to die too. Its just the way things have to be.

Talos when he comes plays the role of lorkhan but as a god of war and order. He takes Lorkhans place in the Mundus but he also achieved chim allowing Talos to remain a seperate being from Lorkhan. When the Heat was freed this allowed Jyggalag to finally be free too from his madness and also seperates him from his Sheogorath personality. Because balance is achieved and lorkhan gets his heart back but in order for him to be whole Lorkhan had to mantle and become Sheogorath in a mortal form. So Jyggalag and Sheogorath would be part of the Talos Lorkhan Oversoul. The Mind of Lorkhan Restored. Sheogorath and Jyagglag become the new Ja-Kha'jay allowing the moons to return after they disappeared when Lorkhan was finally whole. This is what I believe happened it is just a a theory, could be wrong. Talos would take on the mantle of Jyggalag part of the mind and Lorkhan would take on the mantle of the Sheogorath part of the mind.

Enslaved

"would have no gender"
"would be more feminine compared to dragons"

Wait, wat

ArchMikem

pod88kk wrote: »

Go back to Skyrim

What does that have to do with the price of Tea in Senchal?

SilverIce58

What I find hilarious is that you obviously got "Jills" from r/Teslore, but you want ESO to be labeled as a Dragon Break, when r/Teslore hates labeling things as Dragon Breaks, and feel that there are better explanations for why something happened then just saying "oh whoops, it's probs just a Dragon Break."

Tyrobag

Rosveen wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

What the hell is a 'Jill' and why are they called that? What is the source (IN GAME SOURCE)? I'm skeptical.

There is not an in game source, because they aren't a thing. They're called that because someone didn't realize it sounded silly.

Skepticism is good.

"From The Many-Headed Talos" wasn't canon until it was.
Kalpas weren't canon until they were.
Amaranth wasn't canon until it was.
Towers weren't canon until they were.

Many concepts exist in lore, but remain unnamed until, you guessed it, someone finally mentions them. The Towers are especially pertinent because the Nu-Mantia Intercept, the same document that mentions Jills, was also the first one to openly discuss Towers, which are now acknowledged and talked about as a totally normal and valid part of canon.

The thing is, canon doesn't mean much in TES. Ingame texts, out of game texts, dev commentary, forum riddles, loremaster's archives... It's all worthy of reading and debating as long as it expands the universe in an interesting way. Some of it is totally ridiculous, sure, but that's the fun of it. Should all of it become official canon? Of course not, but there's nothing wrong with hoping that some of it will - the bits that make sense, that fit with existing lore, that answer our questions in a satisfactory and thought-provoking way.

You are the antithesis of everything I stand for, so lets just not start this argument since neither one of us is going to convince the other. Suffice it to say that I 1000% disagree with everything you've just said.

Kharnis

Waffennacht wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

A Dragon Break is a very lazy way to justify lore inconsistancies, it's a deus ex machina, really. If they'll introduce it, I'm will be very disappointed in overall course of TES universe development. Lore tells us, that Dragon Break is a very specific feature, it have a place only when some real crazy stuff happens, or, more precisely, when the Dragon God of Time have an interest in the Nirn history and he can't fix things otherwise. It's hard to speculate about motivation of god, but... A good example of abusing omnipotent lore concept is the Force in the new Star Wars by Di$ney. Now it's used to justify questionable plot, it lost an immersive feature, now there is no real bounds for the Force, but only laziness of scriptwriters. I think, damage done by One Tamriel and chapters still can be fixed without deus ex machina trick.
P.S. Thank you OP for an interesting information regarding this peculiar type of dragons... not really 'dragons', but not 'drakes' either. Never heard of it. I thought, dragons don't have genders at all, in any sense.

A dragonbreak would be a wonderful solution to why the player has the freedom to go and do a future dlc like imperial city or craglorn which take place after the main quest, and then come back and do a zone that takes place in the past instead of just having a "its a mmo with mmo mechanics" method

I don't think a dragon break would explain that though. Afaik dragonbreaks are where multiple "verses" take place, having different outcomes starting at a single event. It then has all the lines re-merge later. It doesn't involve a single individual going between the lines, nor back and forth through time. Again, only afaik, the only like Psijic peeps, those whom achieve CHIM and daedric princes have these kinds of capabilities

Cadwells silver and gold take place at the same time, and all the characters remember you regardless of faction you started off with and the decisions you made in cadwells affect their reactions to you. Its safe to assume that since you timetraveled all three outcomes of cadwells lead onto coldharbour and winning.

Caldwell says right off the bat that he's gonna use the power of meridia (the daedric prince) to "show" you the other side. It's pretty filmsy to base time travel on Caldwell's silver/gold and the lack of dialogue variation of NPCs

Meridia does have the ability to manipulate time, though.

"...thus does Merid-Nunda [ride? slide?] across the rainbow road from end to end, at one end stretching the dragon, at the other end compressing him...."

From "Exegesis of Merid-Nunda"

ak_pvp

Nope. Dragon breaks are ***.

And jills are things from the semi cannon ***. Lets just not.

Rosveen

SilverIce58 wrote: »

What I find hilarious is that you obviously got "Jills" from r/Teslore, but you want ESO to be labeled as a Dragon Break, when r/Teslore hates labeling things as Dragon Breaks, and feel that there are better explanations for why something happened then just saying "oh whoops, it's probs just a Dragon Break."

Right, because /teslore always speaks with one united voice and is the ultimate authority on all things Elder Scrolls.

SilverIce58

Rosveen wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

What I find hilarious is that you obviously got "Jills" from r/Teslore, but you want ESO to be labeled as a Dragon Break, when r/Teslore hates labeling things as Dragon Breaks, and feel that there are better explanations for why something happened then just saying "oh whoops, it's probs just a Dragon Break."

Right, because /teslore always speaks with one united voice and is the ultimate authority on all things Elder Scrolls.

Wow, way to put words into my mouth. Did I say that

Rosveen wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

What I find hilarious is that you obviously got "Jills" from r/Teslore, but you want ESO to be labeled as a Dragon Break, when r/Teslore hates labeling things as Dragon Breaks, and feel that there are better explanations for why something happened then just saying "oh whoops, it's probs just a Dragon Break."

/teslore always speaks with one united voice and is the ultimate authority on all things Elder Scrolls.

No. Try again honey. I'm not the one.

Recremen

I was always under the impression that ESO takes place in a Dragon Break by default. How else do we explain going and killing the same world bosses, NPC's, etc. over and over again on the same character, let alone multiple characters? Are they all secred Daedra plants who just reform? How are there multiple hero characters? Multiple instances of Cyrodiil with multiple simultaneous emperors? Dragon Break for sure.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Just my two "Drakes"... Pun intended.
I always love OP's threads!! And Dragon Break idea??? Kinda on fence about that.
As far as "Jills", those and the Nu-Mantia Intercept are from this source at The Imperial Library: Obscure Texts » Michael Kirkbride's Texts.
Note Obscure texts

Rosveen wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

What the hell is a 'Jill' and why are they called that? What is the source (IN GAME SOURCE)? I'm skeptical.

There is not an in game source, because they aren't a thing. They're called that because someone didn't realize it sounded silly.

Skepticism is good.

"From The Many-Headed Talos" wasn't canon until it was.
Kalpas weren't canon until they were.
Amaranth wasn't canon until it was.
Towers weren't canon until they were.

Many concepts exist in lore, but remain unnamed until, you guessed it, someone finally mentions them. The Towers are especially pertinent because the Nu-Mantia Intercept, the same document that mentions Jills, was also the first one to openly discuss Towers, which are now acknowledged and talked about as a totally normal and valid part of canon.

The thing is, canon doesn't mean much in TES. Ingame texts, out of game texts, dev commentary, forum riddles, loremaster's archives... It's all worthy of reading and debating as long as it expands the universe in an interesting way. Some of it is totally ridiculous, sure, but that's the fun of it. Should all of it become official canon? Of course not, but there's nothing wrong with hoping that some of it will - the bits that make sense, that fit with existing lore, that answer our questions in a satisfactory and thought-provoking way.

The Many Headed Talos is not Canon, as only a few select quotes were used in game, not the whole text.
And Towers weren't Canon??? Huh??? You said that Nu-Mantia was also the first one to openly discuss Towers ?
The Adamantine Tower, Crystal Tower & White Gold Tower have been IN GAME since Arena and Daggerfall, and are the creation of Julian LaFey, years before Micheal Kirkbride even worked for Bethesda. And again, the Nu-Mantia is "Fan Fiction" and not canon.
My take, If it is not "In-Game", and/or some of MK's rambling writings, (The same guy who wrote that some of Tamriel's Heroes are from outer space and time travelers), it is not Canon...
Huzzah!