Now is the perfect time to officially introduce the dragonbreak, jills

Aliyavana

Eso has never been officially declared a dragonbreak, but there is various hints that show that this may be true with several timeline inconsistancies. From the player able to use wayshrines before becoming a soul shriven, from being able to play through various faction storyline via cadwells silver, gold and npcs from other factions remembering you. Even further increasing the dragonbreak theory is that new players will start on summerset which is part three of the daedric war questline (orsinium hints, morrowind starts, clockwork escalates, summerset is the newest part.)

Why is it the perfect time to officially introduce the dragonbreak? The Psijiic order deals with time travel and one of the new passive abilities is being able to interact with time rifts throughout tamriel screwing crap up. This would help in the concept of healing the time wounds in tamriel.

Lastly introduce Jills into the game, jills are essentially female "dragons", but not dovah. Dragons are all male and are different, same as how daedric titans are based on dragons but are not dragons. Jills I believe can be described as female "Dragons" and are associated with Akatosh, the dragon god of time and are responsible for cleaning up the messes associated when time goes to ***. "But op, all da dragons are ded! go play skyrem if you want dragons!" Again, not dragons, jills are different and not associated with alduin, they are associated with akatosh

From teslore
"Are the Jill's dov in the same manner The dragons of Skyrim are?"

"No. They are an organization of spirits of Time with a focus on timelines and their mending, and they heed the likes of Akatosh, Alkosh, etc. I do not think of them, or drakes, as shards of Aka, however."

Huyen

Nope

Enslaved

Huyen wrote: »

Nope

This.

Ragged_Claw

Every time my partner starts on about the timeline I shout 'Dragon Break'at him until he shuts up, so I like the idea Also Jills sound awesome, we should definitely have some of those.

The_4O4

aliyavana wrote: »

Again, not dragons, jills are different and not associated with alduin, they are associated with akatosh

But Akatosh and Aldiun are essentially the same being. Where did you get the idea of Jills from?

Aliyavana

The_4O4 wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Again, not dragons, jills are different and not associated with alduin, they are associated with akatosh

But Akatosh and Aldiun are essentially the same being. Where did you get the idea of Jills from?

different shards of aka

Aliyavana

Huyen wrote: »

Nope

Enslaved wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Nope

This.

no explanation given for nope which doesn't stimulate good discussion

xaraan

Explanation is that people just don't think it's a good idea.

Waffennacht

Dragonbreaks are akin to dream sequences aka "we f-ed up, need to explain it somehow.... ok got it, everything possible happened and even contradictons are both correct! ... We'll call it a "dragon break")

I hated the idea even before ESO.

I've never heard of Jill before. Can we have Dragon non Dragons and call then Jack's?

Aliyavana

Waffennacht wrote: »

Dragonbreaks are akin to dream sequences aka "we f-ed up, need to explain it somehow.... ok got it, everything possible happened and even contradictons are both correct! ... We'll call it a "dragon break")

I hated the idea even before ESO.

I've never heard of Jill before. Can we have Dragon non Dragons and call then Jack's?

jills havnt appeared in any elder scrolls games, and we already have "dragons" that are not dragons, they are dragonlings and they evolved to mimic dragons, and daedric titans which mimic dragons. Dragon breaks are a huge part of the tes universe whether you like it or not

Rosveen

The_4O4 wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Again, not dragons, jills are different and not associated with alduin, they are associated with akatosh

Where did you get the idea of Jills from?

The Nu-Mantia Intercept

Dragon Break is the only way ESO's messed up continuity makes sense. It doesn't have to be prominent, but it would be nice to see one of the Psijiics acknowledge what's going on. However, I don't understand how you want to introduce jills into the game - as actual physical creatures flying around? I don't think that's gonna work. Or do you just want them to be mentioned in the game?

FleetwoodSmack

The Psijics are coming to say it's time to stop.

Judas Helviaryn

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

The Psijics are coming to say it's time to stop.

It's time to take a break from all this dragon nonsense.

Aliyavana

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

The Psijics are coming to say it's time to stop.

It's time to take a break from all this dragon nonsense.

no one wants dovah, I want jills that are not dovah and are associated with time

Ankael07

aliyavana wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Nope

Enslaved wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Nope

This.

no explanation given for nope which doesn't stimulate good discussion

Here's why we arent in a Dragonbreak.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Mnemoli

Firstly this ''star'' isnt in the sky and things like wayshrines and creating a character in Summerset is solely for gameplay convinience

FleetwoodSmack

aliyavana wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

The Psijics are coming to say it's time to stop.

It's time to take a break from all this dragon nonsense.

no one wants dovah, I want jills that are not dovah and are associated with time

Honey...

VaranisArano

The canon explanation for ESO is that practically no records survived, which is why nobody remembers specific emperors beyond "we had a bunch, they all died pretty quickly" and why nobody in the 3rd Era is like "Mehrunes Dagon, you copycat, didn't Molag Bal already try this conquering Tamriel thing?"

No Dragon Break needed. Just the natural chaos of war, famine, disease, and a lot of deaths.

Aliyavana

Ankael07 wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Nope

Enslaved wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Nope

This.

no explanation given for nope which doesn't stimulate good discussion

Here's why we arent in a Dragonbreak.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Mnemoli

Firstly this ''star'' isnt in the sky and things like wayshrines and creating a character in Summerset is solely for convenience of gameplay.

clearly, but doesn't mean it can all be fixed with a bit of lore added into it. Nothings stopping zos from having that star appear in the future and would tie up the mess of continuity and player freedom to quest where they want nicely

Tyrobag

aliyavana wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Nope

Enslaved wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Nope

This.

no explanation given for nope which doesn't stimulate good discussion

It doesn't need an explanation, because its not a thing and never will be.

"Jills" are not real lore so just no.

As for the idea of "ermergerd dragonbreak!" We know when Dragonbreaks have happened in the time line. The last one was in 1E 1200 due to the Alessian Order's actions. And the next one will not happen until 2E 854 when Tiber Septim Uses Numidium. The one after that is in 3E 417, known as the Warp in The West.

All of the "evidence" you listed is just the resulting inconsistency that comes with an MMO (and one of the reasons that many argue ESO should be excluded from canon).

Aliyavana

Tyrobag wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Nope

Enslaved wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Nope

This.

no explanation given for nope which doesn't stimulate good discussion

It doesn't need an explanation, because its not a thing and never will be.

"Jills" are not real lore so just no.

As for the idea of "ermergerd dragonbreak!" We know when Dragonbreaks have happened in the time line. The last one was in 1E 1200 due to the Alessian Order's actions. And the next one will not happen until 2E 854 when Tiber Septim Uses Numidium. The one after that is in 3E 417, known as the Warp in The West.

All of the "evidence" you listed is just the resulting inconsistency that comes with an MMO (and one of the reasons that many argue ESO should be excluded from canon).

"And the next one will not happen until 2E 854 when Tiber Septim Uses Numidium." That is always subject to change, as a lot of records were lost in this time period. For example, how come the planemeld, a huge planetary invasion not be mentioned in any past elder scrolls games? and so lore is always subject to be added onto.

pod88kk

Go back to Skyrim

Rosveen

Tyrobag wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Nope

Enslaved wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Nope

This.

no explanation given for nope which doesn't stimulate good discussion

It doesn't need an explanation, because its not a thing and never will be.

"Jills" are not real lore so just no.

As for the idea of "ermergerd dragonbreak!" We know when Dragonbreaks have happened in the time line. The last one was in 1E 1200 due to the Alessian Order's actions. And the next one will not happen until 2E 854 when Tiber Septim Uses Numidium. The one after that is in 3E 417, known as the Warp in The West.

All of the "evidence" you listed is just the resulting inconsistency that comes with an MMO (and one of the reasons that many argue ESO should be excluded from canon).

Dragonbreaks are a lore device invented specifically for the purpose of dealing with conflicting outcomes of game events and the player's actions. The devs had to decide what to do with Daggerfall's several possible endings, thought "ermahgerd what if we make them all canon?!" and that's how we ended up with Dragonbreaks.

It's as close as we're going to get to a lore-friendly explanation for inconsistencies inherent to the MMO genre. Why not use it? That's what it's there for.

Tyrobag

aliyavana wrote: »

"lore is always subject to be added onto"

This is the attitude that causes crap like c0da to exist.

Established Lore should not be changed at all unless it has to be because there is a conflict with other established lore. This is why ESO is dangerous, it happens in the past compared to all of the other games. One example of the issues this causes is that fact that apparently there have only been a handful books written in the past two eras. Most of the books form the other games exists in ESO.

The excuse of there being few records of this time period, and the fact that it ends in a Dragonbreak helps explain most inconsistencies, but they've already screwed some things up.

Checkmath

Dragon break is a pretty solid and valid explanation, why the story of ESO nowhere is written down or stated in the other elder scrolls games. The idea of the dragon break and ESO already is pretty old and many elder scrolls fanatic stated more and more proof for this happening. It is very lore friendly, so actually why not.
Anyway, alduin and akatosh arent the same thing or being. Alduin is only a part, some little aspect of the great akatosh.
Now to those jills: female dragons? With female figures, boobs and stuff, but still scales and wings?Niiiicceee. Okok only joking.... never heard of them, but if they are some kind of spiritual forms, who influence time and happenings, that would be quite of an idea.

zaria

Waffennacht wrote: »

Dragonbreaks are akin to dream sequences aka "we f-ed up, need to explain it somehow.... ok got it, everything possible happened and even contradictons are both correct! ... We'll call it a "dragon break")

I hated the idea even before ESO.

I've never heard of Jill before. Can we have Dragon non Dragons and call then Jac's?

This, and it was only added because daggerfall main quest had multiple endings who would change cannon even if just an text, an reward item and relation bonus.

Now in Skyrim you could have two endings depending on your side in civil war, this however did not have to matter 100 year later. Your work was undone.

Eso is set during an dark age, lots of wars, cyrodil is pretty much destroyed in it and so most of the imperial archives.
Lots of emperors, think Rome civil war, nobody remember all the generals and warlords who held most of it and croned themselves emperor.

Not sure of any cannon ending of ESO is given.
Now the main quests are canon, molarg bal invasion, Creation of Orcinium, it would fall again as seen in daggerfall.
Events regading Vivec is cannon, same with CWC, it involves characters alive in Morrowind.

Dhukath

aliyavana wrote: »

That is always subject to change, as a lot of records were lost in this time period. For example, how come the planemeld, a huge planetary invasion not be mentioned in any past elder scrolls games? and so lore is always subject to be added onto.

Ok, let me understand this. You want to cover the perceived mistakes in ESO by using a dragon break because there are no records of ESO's events. Yet you want to explain your Dragon break not being recorded due to the records being lost?

Waffennacht

Checkmath wrote: »

Dragon break is a pretty solid and valid explanation, why the story of ESO nowhere is written down or stated in the other elder scrolls games. The idea of the dragon break and ESO already is pretty old and many elder scrolls fanatic stated more and more proof for this happening. It is very lore friendly, so actually why not.
Anyway, alduin and akatosh arent the same thing or being. Alduin is only a part, some little aspect of the great akatosh.
Now to those jills: female dragons? With female figures, boobs and stuff, but still scales and wings?Niiiicceee. Okok only joking.... never heard of them, but if they are some kind of spiritual forms, who influence time and happenings, that would be quite of an idea.

Great Akatosh? The thief? The great coward?

He is nothing to the Void, the Grand Dreamer, Sithis kin to Padomay - The-Ever-Chaos!

logarifmik

A Dragon Break is a very lazy way to justify lore inconsistancies, it's a deus ex machina, really. If they'll introduce it, I'll be very disappointed in overall course of TES universe development. Lore tells us, that Dragon Break is a very specific feature, it have a place only when some real crazy stuff happens, or, more precisely, when the Dragon God of Time have an interest in the Nirn history and he can't fix things otherwise. It's hard to speculate about motivation of god, but... A good example of abusing omnipotent lore concept is the Force in the new Star Wars by Di$ney. Now it's used to justify questionable plot, it lost an immersive feature, now there is no real bounds for the Force, but only laziness of scriptwriters. I think, damage done by One Tamriel and chapters still can be fixed without deus ex machina trick.
P.S. Thank you OP for an interesting information regarding this peculiar type of dragons... not really 'dragons', but not 'drakes' either. Never heard of it. I thought, dragons don't have genders at all, in any sense.

Aliyavana

Dhukath wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

That is always subject to change, as a lot of records were lost in this time period. For example, how come the planemeld, a huge planetary invasion not be mentioned in any past elder scrolls games? and so lore is always subject to be added onto.

Ok, let me understand this. You want to cover the perceived mistakes in ESO by using a dragon break because there are no records of ESO's events. Yet you want to explain your Dragon break not being recorded due to the records being lost?

when did I say? "You want to cover the perceived mistakes in ESO by using a dragon break because there are no records of ESO's events." No, I want to use a dragonbreak to cover how the player has the freedom to choose to skip ahead and do a dlc that's in the future instead of completing all dlc prior to it and how they can then go to a zone that takes place in the past.

"Yet you want to explain your Dragon break not being recorded due to the records being lost?" Just because a event isn't recorded doesn't mean it didn't happen.

pod88kk wrote: »

Go back to Skyrim

No, I hate skyrim. Clearly if you bothered to read, I don't want dovah to be added to eso

Tyrobag wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

"lore is always subject to be added onto"

This is the attitude that causes crap like c0da to exist.

Established Lore should not be changed at all unless it has to be because there is a conflict with other established lore. This is why ESO is dangerous, it happens in the past compared to all of the other games. One example of the issues this causes is that fact that apparently there have only been a handful books written in the past two eras. Most of the books form the other games exists in ESO.

The excuse of there being few records of this time period, and the fact that it ends in a Dragonbreak helps explain most inconsistencies, but they've already screwed some things up.

C0da is overall crap, but some of mk's work is nice.

"Established Lore should not be changed at all unless it has to be because there is a conflict with other established lore."
Exactly why solutions like talos changing the cyrodil in the future affected the past cyrodil is a good retcon and even further shows how powerful he was.

"This is why ESO is dangerous, it happens in the past compared to all of the other games. One example of the issues this causes is that fact that apparently there have only been a handful books written in the past two eras. Most of the books form the other games exists in ESO."
This was explained in one of the libraries belonging to hermous mora, it brings books from all eras into it, time might be meaningless to daedric princes, hence why a artifact of meridia might have sent you into the past instead of just being a what if scenario.

Aliyavana

logarifmik wrote: »

A Dragon Break is a very lazy way to justify lore inconsistancies, it's a deus ex machina, really. If they'll introduce it, I'm will be very disappointed in overall course of TES universe development. Lore tells us, that Dragon Break is a very specific feature, it have a place only when some real crazy stuff happens, or, more precisely, when the Dragon God of Time have an interest in the Nirn history and he can't fix things otherwise. It's hard to speculate about motivation of god, but... A good example of abusing omnipotent lore concept is the Force in the new Star Wars by Di$ney. Now it's used to justify questionable plot, it lost an immersive feature, now there is no real bounds for the Force, but only laziness of scriptwriters. I think, damage done by One Tamriel and chapters still can be fixed without deus ex machina trick.
P.S. Thank you OP for an interesting information regarding this peculiar type of dragons... not really 'dragons', but not 'drakes' either. Never heard of it. I thought, dragons don't have genders at all, in any sense.

A dragonbreak would be a wonderful solution to why the player has the freedom to go and do a future dlc like imperial city or craglorn which take place after the main quest, and then come back and do a zone that takes place in the past instead of just having a "its a mmo with mmo mechanics" method

Aliyavana

Checkmath wrote: »

Dragon break is a pretty solid and valid explanation, why the story of ESO nowhere is written down or stated in the other elder scrolls games. The idea of the dragon break and ESO already is pretty old and many elder scrolls fanatic stated more and more proof for this happening. It is very lore friendly, so actually why not.
Anyway, alduin and akatosh arent the same thing or being. Alduin is only a part, some little aspect of the great akatosh.
Now to those jills: female dragons? With female figures, boobs and stuff, but still scales and wings?Niiiicceee. Okok only joking.... never heard of them, but if they are some kind of spiritual forms, who influence time and happenings, that would be quite of an idea.

Dragons have no gender, they lay no eggs and have no true sex, the dragons in skyrim that are dovah and pledge alliegence to alduin have male voices and maleish features but are genderless and cannot reproduce, lay eggs, etc, but are masculine.

jills would have no real gender but would be more female in appearance and have feminine voices and allegiance are to akatosh. id imagine theyd be slimmer like how akatosh is depicted and would have more avianic features

Alduin = the end times, dragons follow

Akatosh = the god of time, jills follow

both are shards of aka