StamSorc after Sommerset

thedude33

Currently leveling up a stamsorc using bow and DW. With the changes coming in sommerset that 2H weapons get an extra slot, is there any reason to stick with DW and instead go to a 2H weapon? Forward Momentum is just too good.

Sixty5

Dual Wield tends to have the advantage of dealing more consistent single target damage, while 2h tends to be spikier, and deals more with AOE.

Personally, I use both now in both PVP and in PVE, so you probably want to level both.

thedude33

DW and bow are at 44 or so. Will get them both to 50. Was just wondering if leveling 2H might be wise. when you say 2h is spikier, isn't that desirable in pvp?

Sixty5

thedude33 wrote: »

DW and bow are at 44 or so. Will get them both to 50. Was just wondering if leveling 2H might be wise. when you say 2h is spikier, isn't that desirable in pvp?

Basically it comes down to who you are fighting.

A Dizzying Swing, Dawnbreaker, Reverse Slice combo is going to pop most squishy targets, but for tankier opponents who can keep up block, you are barely going to tickle them.
On the other hand, stacking up Rending Slashes on a guy, and peppering him with Flurries is going to eat away at their HP and stam, opening them up for a kill.

You are going to want both skill lines levelled up at some stage, and both of them have some really nice options, so yeah, I would definitely recommend levelling 2h.

Vapirko

2H is a pos, learn to use DW. 2H is only better against noobs who have no idea how to handle it. DW is better against all types of players. Its less bursty but much better. Consistently place rune cage on yourself and become methodical with dw abilities and buffs and with the right setup you'll be able to win or put up a good fight against an evenly skilled opponent (unless maybe if they're a stam warden). Rune cage is unblock able and undodgeable where as dizzy swing is the worst cc out there.

thedude33

Vapirko wrote: »

2H is a pos, learn to use DW. 2H is only better against noobs who have no idea how to handle it. DW is better against all types of players. Its less bursty but much better. Consistently place rune cage on yourself and become methodical with dw abilities and buffs and with the right setup you'll be able to win or put up a good fight against an evenly skilled opponent (unless maybe if they're a stam warden). Rune cage is unblock able and undodgeable where as dizzy swing is the worst cc out there.

Good point about Rune Cage. Been using that with my tanky magsorc. Every player i fight will be better than me if that's a factor in my choice.

Brutusmax1mus

Are you going to run medium or heavy? If you run heavy you MUST use 2h or you'll get kited and rooted to death, forward momentum is awesome.

Dizzying can be devastating, nothing in the dw skill line is devastating, but they are very functional. Flurry pairs with crit surge very well, quick cloak is an amazing defense vs a massive amount of skills like shalks, jabs, curse, bombs.

2h has a gap closer if you need 1, dw does not which can be important for some players.

akray21

I'm actually thinking of trying DW/Bow, Medium setup in Summerset.

5 Impreg
5 Bone Pirate
2 Troll King

With the changes to 2H weapons counting as two slots both Impreg and BP will be active at all times. Weapon damage will come from mundus as well as the new infused jewelry trait with weapon damage glyphs. Kite mages with speed and ball of light, harass tanks with bleeds that ignore resistances. I'm curious if it will work.

thedude33

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Are you going to run medium or heavy? If you run heavy you MUST use 2h or you'll get kited and rooted to death, forward momentum is awesome.

Dizzying can be devastating, nothing in the dw skill line is devastating, but they are very functional. Flurry pairs with crit surge very well, quick cloak is an amazing defense vs a massive amount of skills like shalks, jabs, curse, bombs.

2h has a gap closer if you need 1, dw does not which can be important for some players.

I'm leaning towards heavy. Agree FW is great. I'm thinking that kiting me isn't an issue if I use bow. Shooting someone with a bow = they pretty much always come to you.

Malibulove

Don't use Flurry if you're Dual Wielding. Steel Tornado is objectively better because on top of the obvious perks like the bonus damage to low health targets and synergy with your other AoEs, the fact that it is an AoE means it can't be dodge-rolled only blocked. It's a much stronger finisher to your DW combos than Flurry.

Plus in any scenario where Steel Tornado maybe isn't worth it... just Heavy-attack > Blood Craze/Rending again until it is worth it to use Steel Tornado.

glavius

You really won't do much against a competent player with blood craze+hvy attack as your main damage source.

ezeepeezee

I usually compliment my 2h/dw builds with a Master Axe/Maul for the direct damage it adds to another DoT that can be applied to multiple targets and can't be dodged.

Morgul667

Level both, they're all great

I like 2H for PVP but it is very clunky

Thraben

thedude33 wrote: »

Currently leveling up a stamsorc using bow and DW. With the changes coming in sommerset that 2H weapons get an extra slot, is there any reason to stick with DW and instead go to a 2H weapon? Forward Momentum is just too good.

Also do not forget to level Mages Guild (if no CP) You might need empower for some cheap crossbow-pull - Overload - Execute kills.

the_broo11

Thraben wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

Currently leveling up a stamsorc using bow and DW. With the changes coming in sommerset that 2H weapons get an extra slot, is there any reason to stick with DW and instead go to a 2H weapon? Forward Momentum is just too good.

Also do not forget to level Mages Guild (if no CP) You might need empower for some cheap crossbow-pull - Overload - Execute kills.

Lol what

The_Brosteen

the_broo11 wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

Currently leveling up a stamsorc using bow and DW. With the changes coming in sommerset that 2H weapons get an extra slot, is there any reason to stick with DW and instead go to a 2H weapon? Forward Momentum is just too good.

Also do not forget to level Mages Guild (if no CP) You might need empower for some cheap crossbow-pull - Overload - Execute kills.

Lol what

Overload from a stamsorc in no cp, coming soon to a death recap near you.

maddiniiLuna

I like reading trough all this theory crafting, especially since I probably tried every combination mentioned above.

Flurry. It's a cheap decent 10k dmg, that will apply dots, enchantments or poisons much faster then steel tornado. I really don't know, why you would not want to have flurry. It's just a waste of stamina, when you have to cast it 5 times, while flurry you only need twice. I love this ability, it's amazing.

When I'm on the warden I go with 2 axes all the time, but for the sorcerer I swear on swords. The 5% more damage will also increase the damage from your Hurricane.

On the back bar is always a bow, when I have dual wield. Mainly because duel wield cc is not so good. I change the poison Injection for draining shot ( morph of scatter shot ), as I think this is by far more useful then poison injection.

I can only recommend you to use spells for buffs like critical hit from fighters guild and dmg buff from storm abilities. It gives you the opportunity to use a combination of different potions for each battle. So that's 2 of your slots already gone.


Really what the others wrote is not wrong, even tho I don't share their opinions. I think you have to test and try. The only thing you need to think about is, that having a build that might work on single fights or training dummies will not necessarily work throughout Pvp. Trial and error.

thedude33

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

I like reading trough all this theory crafting, especially since I probably tried every combination mentioned above.

Flurry. It's a cheap decent 10k dmg, that will apply dots, enchantments or poisons much faster then steel tornado. I really don't know, why you would not want to have flurry. It's just a waste of stamina, when you have to cast it 5 times, while flurry you only need twice. I love this ability, it's amazing.

When I'm on the warden I go with 2 axes all the time, but for the sorcerer I swear on swords. The 5% more damage will also increase the damage from your Hurricane.

On the back bar is always a bow, when I have dual wield. Mainly because duel wield cc is not so good. I change the poison Injection for draining shot ( morph of scatter shot ), as I think this is by far more useful then poison injection.

I can only recommend you to use spells for buffs like critical hit from fighters guild and dmg buff from storm abilities. It gives you the opportunity to use a combination of different potions for each battle. So that's 2 of your slots already gone.


Really what the others wrote is not wrong, even tho I don't share their opinions. I think you have to test and try. The only thing you need to think about is, that having a build that might work on single fights or training dummies will not necessarily work throughout Pvp. Trial and error.

Good stuff.

Magnum or draining?

Focused Air instead of Lethal Arrow because you want physical damage for implosion?

Sixty5

Always run at least one axe on a sorc while dual weilding. Stam Sorc bleeds are some of the nastiest in the game, given that they have bonus physical damage scaling, and the ability to proc implosion off of bleed ticks.

As a rule on Stam Sorc, you want to stack physical damage where possible, given that your passives work better with it, hence stuff like focused aim over lethal arrow.

If you are going to slot a passive buff on your bar, use Bound Armaments. After summerset, it will only require a single slot, and a boost to stamina is much better than what something like Camo/Evil Hunter is going to offer you. Especially when you consider how much light attacks are going to be hitting for next patch.

Minalan

The_Brosteen wrote: »

the_broo11 wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

Currently leveling up a stamsorc using bow and DW. With the changes coming in sommerset that 2H weapons get an extra slot, is there any reason to stick with DW and instead go to a 2H weapon? Forward Momentum is just too good.

Also do not forget to level Mages Guild (if no CP) You might need empower for some cheap crossbow-pull - Overload - Execute kills.

Lol what

Overload from a stamsorc in no cp, coming soon to a death recap near you.

More like: Stam Sorcs getting permanently stuck in overload and dying hilariously, just like their Magicka cousins.

Coming soon, to a buggy, lag-infested ZOS server near you.

Thraben

the_broo11 wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

Currently leveling up a stamsorc using bow and DW. With the changes coming in sommerset that 2H weapons get an extra slot, is there any reason to stick with DW and instead go to a 2H weapon? Forward Momentum is just too good.

Also do not forget to level Mages Guild (if no CP) You might need empower for some cheap crossbow-pull - Overload - Execute kills.

Lol what

1. Due to the lack of spammables a StamSorc must decide whether to farm potatoes (2 handed or Bow), or good players (dual wield / shield).

2. The use of Overload allows you quick kills EVEN when specced towards survivability and DoTs:

3. A StamSorc's Overload light attack does maybe 60% of a MagSorc's Overload damage.

3. The light attack can be empowered by a New Psijic Skill, and possibly by 40% by the New empower buff.

4. It is thus safe to say that you can use it as a spammable, because 3 light attacks are roughly equal to a dawnbreaker at a faction of the costs.

5. No one uses OL light Attacks because they are easy to avoid and counter.

6. Hence the crossbow pull: If a player has been chained, he will get 12k damage by Overload before starting Dodge rolling. It is extremely unlikely that he uses Absorb Magicka, or Shimmering Shield, or DK scales in that situation.

7. At this point you can start reverce slicing directly, pull a dawnbreaker or poison injection or whatever.

8. This is intended for potatoes, though you can also solo harass a ball group with it. Yes, exactly the group that farmed you over and over again, and against which you stood no chance.

Maulkin

I'll share what I personally find to be a pretty great build currently and (unless some OP sets are added with Summerset) also in the foreseeable future.

1) 6-1 Medium
2) DW and S&B
3) 5x Bone Pirate (necklace, shoes, legs, hands and belt)
4) Two Masters Axes on DW bar
5) 5x Armor of Truth (sword, shield, 2xForemans Rings, chest)
6) 2xTroll King



The strengths of this build:
- With Tactician CP passive, Shuffle alone gives near 100% uptime on Truth during combat
- Streak/BoL, Quick Cloak, Shuffle and sprinting guarantee superb mobility, probably the best in the game.
- Bone Pirate, Dubious Camoran, Dark Conversion and medium armour ensure great sustain.
- The bleed pressure with Blood Craze and Twin Blade & Blunt bleeds from two Masters Axes are off the scales.
- Reverb Bash on S&B ensures supreme pressure on tanky targets
- Troll King, Vigor, Blood Craze & Crit Surge guarantee excellent HPS while Heroic Slash reduces the damage you receive. If you can survive burst damage (which you can do with timely dodges or blocks on the S&B bar) then you can wear down basically anyone with time.

Disadvantages:
- Lacks a gap closer. Literally no space on the bar unless you drop Quick Cloak (only drop-able skill) and move something to the DW bar to add Invasion. Although with Minor & Major Expedition and medium armour, you can literally sprint after targets
- Lacks an execute. With 4 physical DoTs (2 bleeds, Hurricane, Quick Cloak) as well as Light+Skill weaving, Implosion procs very very often. But of course it's nowhere near as reliable as Reverse Slice/Executioner.

Disclaimer: This is for CP content, since no Tactician = no party. You can however change Truth to another offensive set and get similar results. I currently use Hundings on S&B bar for no-CP BGs

The_Brosteen

Minalan wrote: »

The_Brosteen wrote: »

the_broo11 wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

Currently leveling up a stamsorc using bow and DW. With the changes coming in sommerset that 2H weapons get an extra slot, is there any reason to stick with DW and instead go to a 2H weapon? Forward Momentum is just too good.

Also do not forget to level Mages Guild (if no CP) You might need empower for some cheap crossbow-pull - Overload - Execute kills.

Lol what

Overload from a stamsorc in no cp, coming soon to a death recap near you.

More like: Stam Sorcs getting permanently stuck in overload and dying hilariously, just like their Magicka cousins.

Coming soon, to a buggy, lag-infested ZOS server near you.

I kill people with overload on my stam sorc more often than you'd think. It's kind of hilarious.

Aznox

Maulkin wrote: »

I'll share what I personally find to be a pretty great build currently and (unless some OP sets are added with Summerset) also in the foreseeable future.

1) 6-1 Medium
2) DW and S&B
3) 5x Bone Pirate (necklace, shoes, legs, hands and belt)
4) Two Masters Axes on DW bar
5) 5x Armor of Truth (sword, shield, 2xForemans Rings, chest)
6) 2xTroll King

I think this is a top build for medium armor CP enabled stam sorc.

I play a heavy armor variant myself (DW/S&B/TrollKing/Automaton/Shackle) to get an insane werewolf form.

Have you tried swapping quick cloak and dark deal for bound armaments ?
Would get you :
- 1320 physical resist
- 8% max stam
- 11% heavy attack damage
- 20% stam recovery
- 20% health recovery

thedude33

Some great stuff here and through PMs. Very helpful.

The only question/comment I have. These all sound great in theory. The problem I have is where do you find these fights? I just see zerg ball vs zerg ball, an organized group farming a resource or keep attack/defense. A few times while on a horse I bumped into a 2-3 man stealth team, and that didn't go well.

I had zero chance in 4 hours last night to even test my build other than using my bow 90% of the time.

Maulkin

Aznox wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I'll share what I personally find to be a pretty great build currently and (unless some OP sets are added with Summerset) also in the foreseeable future.

1) 6-1 Medium
2) DW and S&B
3) 5x Bone Pirate (necklace, shoes, legs, hands and belt)
4) Two Masters Axes on DW bar
5) 5x Armor of Truth (sword, shield, 2xForemans Rings, chest)
6) 2xTroll King

I think this is a top build for medium armor CP enabled stam sorc.

I play a heavy armor variant myself (DW/S&B/TrollKing/Automaton/Shackle) to get an insane werewolf form.

Have you tried swapping quick cloak and dark deal for bound armaments ?
Would get you :
- 1320 physical resist
- 8% max stam
- 11% heavy attack damage
- 20% stam recovery
- 20% health recovery

I have yes, but I found that for me it didn't really suit the way I play and the modes I play most of the time. I play mostly BGs and the lack of CPs favours the use of Dark Deal to aid regen while also many of the objectives favour mobility (running to flags or chasing chaosball, relics etc). So I found Quick Cloak to really aid with playing for the objective. I don't play Cyro much these days sadly, because I can only play prime-time due to work and it's an absolute lag fest most of the times.

For duels though the build changes quite a bit. Firstly, I personally find that Heavy Armour performs marginally better in 1v1s. Medium armour with dodges, shuffle and more speed/damage scales better against many opponents, but heavy can sustain equally well in 1v1s while offering better protection from burst. So when I duel, I go 5H-2M and in that case out goes shuffle, quick cloak and dark deal and in come Trap and Bound Armaments.

Subversus

Aznox wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I'll share what I personally find to be a pretty great build currently and (unless some OP sets are added with Summerset) also in the foreseeable future.

1) 6-1 Medium
2) DW and S&B
3) 5x Bone Pirate (necklace, shoes, legs, hands and belt)
4) Two Masters Axes on DW bar
5) 5x Armor of Truth (sword, shield, 2xForemans Rings, chest)
6) 2xTroll King

I think this is a top build for medium armor CP enabled stam sorc.

I play a heavy armor variant myself (DW/S&B/TrollKing/Automaton/Shackle) to get an insane werewolf form.

Have you tried swapping quick cloak and dark deal for bound armaments ?
Would get you :
- 1320 physical resist
- 8% max stam
- 11% heavy attack damage
- 20% stam recovery
- 20% health recovery

I agree, anything with bleeds is top tier for noCP. It’s absurd how overpowered they are, especially with conjunction with master axes. I can’t believe I ever argued that bleeds aren’t op in the bleeds thread made by skander, what the holy actual duck was I thinking. I was probably stuck in like Morrowind or HoTR lol.

Qbiken

Subversus wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I'll share what I personally find to be a pretty great build currently and (unless some OP sets are added with Summerset) also in the foreseeable future.

1) 6-1 Medium
2) DW and S&B
3) 5x Bone Pirate (necklace, shoes, legs, hands and belt)
4) Two Masters Axes on DW bar
5) 5x Armor of Truth (sword, shield, 2xForemans Rings, chest)
6) 2xTroll King

I think this is a top build for medium armor CP enabled stam sorc.

I play a heavy armor variant myself (DW/S&B/TrollKing/Automaton/Shackle) to get an insane werewolf form.

Have you tried swapping quick cloak and dark deal for bound armaments ?
Would get you :
- 1320 physical resist
- 8% max stam
- 11% heavy attack damage
- 20% stam recovery
- 20% health recovery

I agree, anything with bleeds is top tier for noCP. It’s absurd how overpowered they are, especially with conjunction with master axes. I can’t believe I ever argued that bleeds aren’t op in the bleeds thread made by skander, what the holy actual duck was I thinking. I was probably stuck in like Morrowind or HoTR lol.

I´ll assume you only speak from a no-CP perspective, because I´ve never found bleed-builds OP in CP-PvP. Strong yes, but not more OP than any other builds out there

Aznox

We could call anything OP in noCP because everyone is more squishy compare to CPenabled ...

Bleed is affected by CP/noCP in roughly the same way than any other damage type.

At least from looking at the champion points numbers, here is what's available :
+25% / -25% available for both DoTs and Direct damage
+15% / - 15% available for all damage types (not just physical)
additional critical resistance affects all damage equally
additional critical damage affects all damage equally
additional resistances is not used much because bad scaling, but it makes bleed stronger in CP

Please tell me if i missed something.

Thraben

[/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/89e1in/summerset_update_1

thedude33 wrote: »

Some great stuff here and through PMs. Very helpful.

The only question/comment I have. These all sound great in theory. The problem I have is where do you find these fights? I just see zerg ball vs zerg ball, an organized group farming a resource or keep attack/defense. A few times while on a horse I bumped into a 2-3 man stealth team, and that didn't go well.

I had zero chance in 4 hours last night to even test my build other than using my bow 90% of the time.

If you play the Shield/Dot build long enough people will start to avoid and ignore you, because they think you will shieldulti streak away anyway. Noobs will still attack you, and thus you get your fights.

Of course, this lacks AP efficiency. Consider the Overload bar for the 90% of the fights that consist of zerging, or for solo hunting ball groups.

Mojomonkeyman

Aznox wrote: »

We could call anything OP in noCP because everyone is more squishy compare to CPenabled ...

Bleed is affected by CP/noCP in roughly the same way than any other damage type.

At least from looking at the champion points numbers, here is what's available :
+25% / -25% available for both DoTs and Direct damage
+15% / - 15% available for all damage types (not just physical)
additional critical resistance affects all damage equally
additional critical damage affects all damage equally
additional resistances is not used much because bad scaling, but it makes bleed stronger in CP

Please tell me if i missed something.

Bleeds are cheap/no-cost (not considering trade-offs), consistent and auto-applied to a large degree while doing what you would do anyways. That outperforms most defensive maneuvers in no-cp in terms of ressource efficiency.

Same logic reversed for troll king, no-cost auto-application, far too ressource friendly in an environment like no-cp, which is tough on ressources in general.

Therefore, combining those two is considered incredibly cheesy (at least by me ). In particular if combined with posions on top it's the most abusive compilation of crutches you can run at the moment.