The Great Vvardenfell Housing Renewal Proposal of 2E 582

Supreme_Atromancer

Such a fantastic idea, I'd love to see this.

In an ideal world, all those locked doors could be made available for player housing.

Personally, not even just Vvardenfell, there are locked houses all over Tamriel.

I've always wanted to live in Evermore, because its always been my favourite place in Tamriel since I saw it in Arena, so it would mean a lot. I think that many other people must have their favourite places, for lore or sentimental reasons. This would be a perfect answer for that.

Hymzir

The thing is, though, that it's never "super easy" in practice. Implementing just about anything in a game takes plenty of time and effort. It's never as straightforward as it looks on the surface.

Now I don't know how ESO handles these sort of things in practice, so I can't say anything definite about specifics involved. However, thinking about what implementing a house, a purchasable and decorate-able home, with all the connections and database entries, as well as linked mechanics such as achievements, navigation and purchase options (crowns, gold, furnished/unfurnished and gifting options) would actually require, it becomes fast quite evident that i would require plenty of work to do.

And that's just what I can think from the top of my head. I'm sure MMO environment adds it's own slew of extra things to do and consider. Adding a space itself is probably easy, though that too has bunch of ancillary bits to tweak and implement that are not immediately obvious. Or something that can be done simply by cloning spaces. Like making sure compass indicators align with external reality and that ambient sound space is correct and that lighting makes sense.

All of that takes plenty of time and effort, and bigger the production is, in which this is to take place, the more there are extra layers of work involved. You got different departments and teams, all tweaking and working on their on separate bits at the same time, So you have to make sure that people are more or less on the same page, and that any updates added to the game work together and are more or less up to date with everything else going on at the same time.

And that's not even considering playtesting required, making reports, evaluating them, making patches and then once again trying to co-ordinate every teams work to mash up in the end, and that all code involved is up to date. There's lot of departmental back and forth before things get to the point that it can actually be patched into the live version. Certifications to do and reports and documentation to write. Meetings to hold and go-aheads from leads to acquire. It all adds up. And it all costs money.

With all that in mind, one has to ask, does it actually make sense to spend all that time and effort into making several essentially similar homes to add to the game? For what end really? I mean, it would be really cool and immersive and great, and give more variety between player homes, but still... Makes me wonder.

Look at it this way: 2021 Mazda6, 2021 Toyota Camry, 2022 Hyundai Sonata, 2022 Subaru Legacy, 2021 Nissan Altima, 2021 Volkswagen Passat, 2021 Chevrolet Malibu and 2022 Kia K5 are all different modern cars from different manufacturers. Each with their own pros an cons, and each prolly having their own fans. But... In the end, they are all recent mid-sized sedans, and it wouldn't make much sense to model them all into a GTA clone game, when the same function could be handled by just having one car called MidSizeSedan and call it a day. I mean, they don't even look all that different from one another! And that analogy would be pretty much spot on for all those doors in Vivec. They'd all be pretty much the same, the same size and style, Just with a different location.

The thing with homes is, that they are not like cosmetics in general. They are investments of time and effort from the player. While some people do buy lot of homes, most players just get couple or even one and work on them at their leisure. Cosmetics make more sense from business point of view, since they require less effort to implement (though still surprising amount of steps in addition to just modeling the thing and adding it's mesh and textures into the game), and a lot of people keep buying new ones to freshen up their gaming experience. It's less work for more returns, and that's why they keep churning them up non-stop.

Don't get me wrong though, I'd really like to see more of those mid-sized sedans in ESO. but unless a new zone is designed and set up with them form the word go, I find it unlikely that ZOS would bother to implement such homes into older content at a later date. It just doesn't make sense, Too much work for too little money. And there really is a non-inconsiderable amount of work required to add a player house into any game. That's just the nature of the beast.

The best we can hope for is to get one small or medium sized home in Vivec, since that might have enough interest behind it to cover the costs involved. The in-room just doesn't cut it - too little slots to be truly worthwhile. A 3 room apartment with a closet or too might be worth it though, but it would prolly end up being crowns only. I wouldn't buy it, but I think there are enough who would, that it might just be worth it for ZOS. Vivec is a popular spot after all. Hope it happens.

MornaBaine

I would buy one of those Balmorra houses in a hot minute! C'mon already ZO$! Listen to this brilliant person and start unlocking some damn doors already!

Vehlir

@Hymzir

I actually agree with a lot of what you say. It's worth noting this post is now over 3 years old. At the time, this was made immediately before Summerset came out and was more of a last ditch effort to get some more homes in the zone before it became "Old news" as you can see described in my "epilogue" section "I know with the arrival of Summerset in just a few months, it makes the timing of this a bit awkward, but it's actually that arrival which has spurred me to actually finally make this post. A sort of now or never before the chapter gets forgotten. Especially with the various ESO:Morrowind motifs being cycled through the crown store as of late, I figured maybe it's not too late!".


All these years later I agree the window for multiple has more then likely come and gone, and it's much more likely AND feasible to focus on one. (and coincidentally I REALLY agree with the one you chose as well). Way back in March I actually made a thread trimming down the scope and focusing one specific idea, in particular focusing on this very thing you mentioned, a larger new Vivec City home.

You can check out the thread if you're interested

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/563689/a-new-vivec-city-home-suggestion-saint-olms-canal-house

Hymzir

Vehlir wrote: »

@Hymzir

I actually agree with a lot of what you say. It's worth noting this post is now over 3 years old. At the time, this was made immediately before Summerset came out and was more of a last ditch effort to get some more homes in the zone before it became "Old news" as you can see described in my "epilogue" section "I know with the arrival of Summerset in just a few months, it makes the timing of this a bit awkward, but it's actually that arrival which has spurred me to actually finally make this post. A sort of now or never before the chapter gets forgotten. Especially with the various ESO:Morrowind motifs being cycled through the crown store as of late, I figured maybe it's not too late!".

Yeah, I noticed that the original post was few years back, so was replying more in general to the whole topic of "adding homes to some of the chained doors in old zones", as well as the more recent posts that had brought this thread back to the front.

'Cause it's not just VVardenfell - the same can be said of say Solitude and Senchal and Rimmen and no doubt what ever that new town is named in Deadlands.

The "window" for adding homes is pretty much closed the moment the content is released. All the houses associated with more recent releases have clearly been designed and planned to be there from the get go. They are planned, decided, and developed at the same time as everything else that has to do with the new zone. Even if they are then releases at a staggered fashion at a later date.

So all the stuff that comes later, like the motif drops and structural furnishing plans, and stuff slated for the luxury and achievement and writ vendors, goes though the design and planning at the same time. And this includes houses too.

The stuff that is gonna be released later might not be fully finished by the time the main DLC launches, but all the planning, all the meetings, all the decisions involved, have already been done and dealt with. All that remains is some polish, playtesting and adding in missing models and meshes before it's time to move to the next project and DLC.

That's why datamining ESO is a thing. Most of the stuff that is to come, has been decided long before release and there are stuff already set up into the code to accommodate their eventual full release.

Small team or a solo dev can turn on a dime and change the course of their production fast and add stuff more freely as they go along, but of course their total output of "stuff" is far more limited than in a gigantic production like ESO, With big teams you get more stuff, but you are not as free to add new stuff into the mix as the ideas come along.

All of this is, of course, more of a rule of thumb. I doubt that Kushalit was in the books back when VVardenfell was being worked on. That was, I think, a later idea looking for a spot it could fit in. And that's why I think a house in Vivec is a possibility, if enough people can convince ZOS that it'd be worth the money to implement.

But since those huge mansions, which I think most buyers use as sandbox type playing fields for their construction and interior decor projects, rather than actual housing as such, keep selling as well as they do, I think that is what they are gonna focus their resource on. After all, most people looking for homes stick to just one or maybe couple (having a vacation house is a thing after all) and don't buy all that many to begin with. The ones who do, and who buy houses regularly, are looking for big cool places with some extra special wow factor to house their latest projects. And a simple mid sized town house in Vivec does not fit that bill. Nor does a simple medium sized town house in any city really. Hence the general lack of them, there just isn't enough demand for them. At leas in the eyes of ZOS, that is.

But enough with my ramblings already. Don't mean to be a downer or spread negative waves as Oddball might complain about. It's just that I see the idea that implementing stuff like this is "super easy, barely an inconvenience" in a lot on threads, and I know from experience that it's not. It's not that ZOS is lazy or is purposefully not adding those homes to spite people. It's just that it's a lot more work than what one might think at first, and there really isn't enough financial benefit for doing so.

The best we can do is to keep complaining about it, and hope they include at least couple of small and mid-sized homes in every new zone they add. Having them be a part of the initial design for the new zone means that they might actually make it to the released version.