Is 1vX Outlawed?

Kova

I personally don't see much good 1vX anymore as is. I'd like to think I'm pretty decent as a player, but I'm having trouble against a good number of players now because of the closing skill gap.

The game is currently very forgiving of mistakes, but only for some setups. As a stamblade I can take a meteor or dawnbreaker to the face and recover just fine. That shouldn't be possible unless my opponents are tossing noodles.

At the same time I can roll dodge around a group, incap->LA->surprise attack an enemy to death, and roll out to kill again without any problems.

Meanwhile, on my sorc I can avoid damage like a boss, but tell me to kill anyone and it's like my skill bar rolls it's eyes before sighing like an angry teenager told to do a simple task. So my 1vXing situations are almost always against potatoes, or end in me giving 2 to 3 decent players the slip before they rage tell me that I should stand and die to their cheesy setups.

Subversus

jabrone77 wrote: »

Most "1vX" videos I've seen isn't even actually 1vX.
Most of them are in a group of at least one other player, sometimes as many as 4. MoS Creator is one such player that brags about "1vX", but is usually in a group. Awesome builds, yes, but he doesn't truly 1vX. Breakingbats is another. His templar build is damn amazing, but he's usually in a group of one or more players.
Don't get me wrong, it's still very, very impressive. But "1" it's not...
Yet, the title of thier video says "1vX".
I always took that to mean one player vs. a group. Maybe it's supposed to mean one small group vs. a much larger group? I dunno, but if that's the case, you need a better term than "1"

I have no idea who any of those guys are

Checkmath

i will just let it be now, no sense to continue talking....
whatever you want it to be pieratsos...1vX definitely isnt dead and there are lot of players out there confirming that.

Kel

Subversus wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

Most "1vX" videos I've seen isn't even actually 1vX.
Most of them are in a group of at least one other player, sometimes as many as 4. MoS Creator is one such player that brags about "1vX", but is usually in a group. Awesome builds, yes, but he doesn't truly 1vX. Breakingbats is another. His templar build is damn amazing, but he's usually in a group of one or more players.
Don't get me wrong, it's still very, very impressive. But "1" it's not...
Yet, the title of thier video says "1vX".
I always took that to mean one player vs. a group. Maybe it's supposed to mean one small group vs. a much larger group? I dunno, but if that's the case, you need a better term than "1"

I have no idea who any of those guys are

Youtube search is your friend.
Unless you mean "I don't care who these guys are."....then why even post?
But no matter, the point is they say they 1vX, when they are in a group.
Is that really 1vX?

UppGRAYxDD

1vX is not dead, just less impressive these days considering the "X" is a much smaller number then in the past. Those that played in those days know what it was like being or seeing a sorc face tank 15ppl and nuke half in the blink of an eye, or run on a Stamblade exploiting siphoning through caltrops...

Thogard

Not to throw gas on a fire, but...

How do we feel about 1+guards v X ?

Is it really a 1vX if you have a mage guard spamming negate?

UppGRAYxDD

Thogard wrote: »

Not to throw gas on a fire, but...

How do we feel about 1+guards v X ?

Is it really a 1vX if you have a mage guard spamming negate?

this follows in line with the whole "rules of warfare"...There are no rules, do whatever to win, just ask the ppl who constantly use poisons/immovable pots in duels or run broken sets...

Ragnarock41

1vX will stay as long as players keep being D U M B.

raasdal

Thogard wrote: »

Not to throw gas on a fire, but...

How do we feel about 1+guards v X ?

Is it really a 1vX if you have a mage guard spamming negate?

Yes. A good buff for sure, but not so much, that it diminishes the achievement completely.

It is however, NOT a 1v1, if you have NPC's on your side.

So i guess the answer depends on how how many X'es there are.

LegendaryMage

@Checkmath As I said before, I'll start posting my dueling losses as soon as I bump into someone who can actually win more than 1 in 10 fights, without stalemating on a heavy armor heavy attack sustain lingering build. I don't like to brag about PVP in ESO (as if it required much skill) but knowing how ridiculously toxic the PC EU dueling community has became (although nowadays it seems to have died down), I have no issues calling out fake loudmouths when I see them. We both know they love me for it.

Besides, dueling is a joke, Zenimax effectively killed it as soon as they released it into the game. When we were dueling in Cyro, at least 90% of players were on open world builds and fights were more realistic than now.

Now 1vX against players that don't even know how to CC you is also a waste of time in my opinion. I could never understand people posting videos of going up against completely clueless players that literally haven't yet learned what a CC is. Anyone taking pride in killing such players is obviously compensating for getting packed against more competent ones.

Lucky28

pretty much. cyrodiil used to to be hands down the best aspect of eso with so many different possible experiences and so many reasons for players to keep playing. and then Morrowind happened, which in my opinion beats the lighting patch as the worst patch in this games history.

Aznox

LegendaryMage wrote: »

someone who can actually win more than 1 in 10 fights, without stalemating on a heavy armor heavy attack sustain lingering build.

you forgot Troll King and Werewolf

More seriously let me try to answer OP's question :

Is 1vX Outlawed?

No.

if someone does it truly & successfully there characters build going to to get hit with a lead pipe next patch.

Yes.

Why ? Because finding overperforming mechanics/combos is what great and competitive players do.

Why would a good 1vX'er limit himself to 1v3 when he could equip Seven Legion last patch and do 1v5 instead ?

The more time pass, the lesser X may become in 1vX, because most of the irregularities that 1vX'er -legitimately- take advantage of will be ironed out by ZoS.

Look at the start of the game where players could combine emperor status with vampire ultimate and do 1v30, it's exactly the same thing.

Of course each new patch will possibly introduce some new overperforming mechanics, and good 1vX'er will leverage those mechanics to increase the X.

When the new thing gets hit by a balance patch, mediocre players will start opening threads on this forum while good players will be in-game creating the new overperforming setup.

ak_pvp

Aznox wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

someone who can actually win more than 1 in 10 fights, without stalemating on a heavy armor heavy attack sustain lingering build.

you forgot Troll King and Werewolf

More seriously let me try to answer OP's question :

Is 1vX Outlawed?

No.

if someone does it truly & successfully there characters build going to to get hit with a lead pipe next patch.

Yes.

Why ? Because finding overperforming mechanics/combos is what great and competitive players do.

Why would a good 1vX'er limit himself to 1v3 when he could equip Seven Legion last patch and do 1v5 instead ?

The more time pass, the lesser X may become in 1vX, because most of the irregularities that 1vX'er -legitimately- take advantage of will be ironed out by ZoS.

Look at the start of the game where players could combine emperor status with vampire ultimate and do 1v30, it's exactly the same thing.

Of course each new patch will possibly introduce some new overperforming mechanics, and good 1vX'er will leverage those mechanics to increase the X.

When the new thing gets hit by a balance patch, mediocre players will start opening threads on this forum while good players will be in-game creating the new overperforming setup.

Yep. Just need to wait for some OP 1vX set next patch to appear and carry me. And then be nerfed... Whilst the 3 Xv1 sets remain broken. Because that is how ZOS wants it.

Checkmath

Which are those Xv1 sets? Zaan? A Procset? Duroks?

Yakidafi

pieratsos wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

i think @Skander doesnt have any nice experiences made the last months in 1vX situations to say such nonsense.

He is actually right. The only 1vX clips you see these days are 1 guy beating 3-4 potatoes. The days of actual 1vX impressive clips are long gone. You rarely see them these days and most of those clips are in places like towers which make it a lot easier to 1vX.

@pieratsos I don't ever recall a 1vx video against anything but potatoes.

Most_Awesome

The God of 1vX pure 100% skill no one is as good as this now days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq5MqJyImAs

ZOS_JesC

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React

As a player who has solely played medium armor stamina throughout his entire eso experience, with several thousand hours playing solo, I can tell you there are a whole myriad of issues plaguing the ability to 1vx in cyrodil. One of the most glaring issues is the amount of survivability and sustain granted by the number of CP players have now. 720 CP points covers practically every defensive and sustain capability you need, while also allowing you to run multiple 120 passives from each tree, if you so desire. While experienced players such as myself benefit offensively from the increase in CP, that offensive bonus is completely outweighed by the amount of healing and mitigation that can be achieved by those who do not care for offensive capability. Personally, to combat this I've been forced to run builds that sacrifice almost everything in favor of damage - double damage sets combined with either a 1/1 offensive monster set combo, or all crafted with agility. It is only through running some of the highest damage available that I am able to kill certain specs, such pirate skeleton - healing cp spec'd magplars, 28k health dks who no longer need to let go of LT, double sustain set & EG sorcs with endless ward-stacking and streak capability, etc. When you run a build with enough damage to kill these specs, it's essentially one mistake and you're dead while outnumbered (and many times there is just no chance whatsoever of success against groups that, in previous patches, could have been defeated). There is no cushion to fall back on aside from defensive ults - and when fighting outnumbered, dropping a defensive ult usually just prolongs the time it takes to kill you while granting you no actual reprieve.

In addition to this, tools that can only be described as "Xv1" are growing in number. Literally all poisons fall into this category, as a solo player the only poison that is universally effective is double damage. Immobilize poisons, drain resources, cowardice, etc ONLY make sense to use in a group, usually in fights where you outnumber your opponent.

Builds that are purely specced to heal or survive are "Xv1" tools, as they only function in groups. These builds get stronger every patch with more healing and mitigation available through CP, which once again completely outweighs the offensive capability available through CP.

The amount of skills that snare, and the potency of these snares when they overlap, further empowers the "xv1" groups. How can a solo player be expected to utilize higher mobility and better position/skillful game play when their mobility can effectively be reduced to 0% by just a handful of players doing nothing other than using skills they normally would? Not to mention that through either lag, skill spam, or pure developer laziness, snare immunity such as shuffle, dodge roll, or forward momentum does not actually make you immune to all snares. Immobilize poisons go through this immunity 100% of the time.

Finally, Resurrection has no cooldown, and the "X" sacrifices nothing to resurrect players you kill. The solo player sacrifices offensive windows, positioning and sustain to deal with a rez, all of which seriously decreases their chances of being able to deal with the group before more players arrive or prior to sustain becoming an issue. In addition to these sacrifices, being forced to go in for an interrupt leaves you completely vulnerable to being attacked; actually CREATING opportunity for the players who outnumber you. While the game should not be modified to be in FAVOR of solo players, it should not favor the "X" so heavily in these scenarios. Resurrection needs to have some mechanics added to it; an interrupt should set you on a cooldown where you are unable to rez for x period of time, similar to how all interrupt-able abilities now function (i.e if you are interrupted while rez'ing, you should not be able to rez another player for 30 seconds). Another alternative would be a camp-timer style "Rez timer", where after you are resurrected by another player, assuming you die immediately, you will not be able to be resurrected again until your timer runs out (2 minutes seems appropriate for this timer). Just a few ideas to mitigate a mechanic which heavily favors large group play against all other "scales" of PvP play.

EDIT: A prime example of the rez-mechanics being imbalanced occurred to me the other day in open world. I came up 1v4 against a group with a DK tank dedicated to CC spam, and an argonian magplar dedicated to healing. The other two players were damage dealers. I was able to bring them into the tower near chalman where through superior skill and targeting I was able to kill both of the damage dealers. However, when it came down to the remaining two tanky "support roles", they each stood on one of the two corpses and did nothing but try to rez. With 6.1k weapon damage and 38k stamina, I was unable to kill either player fast enough to leave the other alone. This resulted in a literal stalemate where my ONLY option was to continually bash them back and forth, accomplishing nothing, or to simply walk away. I chose to walk away. These players didn't outplay me, they didn't demonstrate superior skill or game knowledge, they didn't overpower me through group composition or damage dealing capability. They simply stood on two corpses, and spammed Resurrection. That should NOT be an option to win a fight which you already had the upper hand in by a vast margin. That is called "Imbalance", in favor of groups over solo players.

There are many other issues with the ability to 1vX now, but these are just some of the major ones that I notice the most while playing solo.

ximelolagnia

Although I can't truly tell I assume the skill cap of cyro pvp isn't TOO high but enough to be able to 1vx even decent players. I'd say only 5-15% of players are experienced and decent but still 1vxable and then around 1-2% I meet are truly vets in my opinion. Build matters A LOT, with mine i can usually deal with around 5 decent players face to face but any higher and it gets hard unless they are potatoes. I think solo pvp sucks compared to duo/trio pvp as it adds so many capabilities to fighting proper zergs and players. You will generally have a much better time if you don't solo and have a few friendos to help you out.

Kova

Most_Awesome wrote: »

The God of 1vX pure 100% skill no one is as good as this now days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq5MqJyImAs

I almost forgot about Sheliza. Look at that technique!

Bam_Bam

montiferus wrote: »

1vX isn’t dead but ZOS, whether intentional or not, has consistently made it harder with every patch. The game is designed for zergs and casuals. Summerset will be no different.

Alsoo, don't forget that regular Pvpers own skill levels will have improved just because of the amount of time passing.

danno8

pieratsos wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

i think @Skander doesnt have any nice experiences made the last months in 1vX situations to say such nonsense.

He is actually right. The only 1vX clips you see these days are 1 guy beating 3-4 potatoes. The days of actual 1vX impressive clips are long gone. You rarely see them these days and most of those clips are in places like towers which make it a lot easier to 1vX.

Line of sight makes the worst players good players.

NyassaV

Taylor_MB wrote: »

1vX is very little to do with the 1's skill/build/class and more to do with the x's skills.

It's both really. I've tricked some pretty good players, who normally wreck, me a few times. It depends a lot of things

NyassaV

ak_pvp wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

1vX is very little to do with the 1's skill/build/class and more to do with the x's skills.

Yep. 2 players of your level will destroy you no matter your build. The best you can do is tank/evade them, as you will most likely not kill them.

Granted it is constantly getting harder as defenses are nerfed and scales consistently worse (block changes, for recent example) and cheese no skill sets like earthgore are put in.

Unless 1 of those really good players is using a glass cannon build then sometimes you can get one before the other kills you

Karmanorway

Kova wrote: »

I personally don't see much good 1vX anymore as is. I'd like to think I'm pretty decent as a player, but I'm having trouble against a good number of players now because of the closing skill gap.

The game is currently very forgiving of mistakes, but only for some setups. As a stamblade I can take a meteor or dawnbreaker to the face and recover just fine. That shouldn't be possible unless my opponents are tossing noodles.

At the same time I can roll dodge around a group, incap->LA->surprise attack an enemy to death, and roll out to kill again without any problems.

Meanwhile, on my sorc I can avoid damage like a boss, but tell me to kill anyone and it's like my skill bar rolls it's eyes before sighing like an angry teenager told to do a simple task. So my 1vXing situations are almost always against potatoes, or end in me giving 2 to 3 decent players the slip before they rage tell me that I should stand and die to their cheesy setups.

Ive been recording for a while now in IC for
1 vs X fights , and i have encountered a few, like here the other day i got attacked by 12 - 15 cp capped EPs , i lured them to follow me in a spot with many LoS options, and killed them 1 after 1 with not too much struggle.

After i was like Hell yeah im good! Although after when i watched the video, i saw at least half of them spamming Wall of elements and other aoes lol So yeah, that clip went to the trash can with the others.

On the other hand, ive meet single players crushing me like i was nothing (#nerfBleedbuilds)

So ive come to the conclusion that if u are 1 vs X ing and live on to tell the tale, u were incredibly lucky because they were inexperienced.

If u 1 vs Xing Pvpers that actually knows what they are doing, u dont stand a chance, then 3+ of them is enough for u to lose big time, its common.

And i like to think that this is the reason why there are no "good" 1 vs X videos, because they never happen.

TheDoomsdayMonster

1vX is alive and well...

Earlier today, I destroyed 4 players at Ash Lumber before the rest of the zerg showed up and forced me to retreat into the tower...

IZZEFlameLash

I agree with Taylor. 1vX has more to do with X's skill than 1's gears and skills. There's only so much you can do against overwhelming numbers if they are more competent than clicking left mouse for light attacks and/or with extremely bad builds. This is why you cannot 1vX actual competent groups. I've done 1v6 on my stamden before and I just started playing stamden at the time. Thankfully, 6 was all light attackers. If they knew how to play more than that, I might have died after killing 0~2.

Aznox

I think we could make a 1vX calculator :

X = number of enemies you could simultaneously fight and defeat given enough time
A = the combined potential of your build, skill and PvP experience
P = the potato points of your opponents
B = the potato rank of your opponents (B=1/P)

Then

X = A/(1/P) = A/B

Things that increase A (and so increase X)
- do you know how to use LoS efficiently ? +1
- did you display the minimum required tenacity and aptitude by completing vMA ? +2
- does you build have high sustain and some burst capability ? +4
- do you have access to some currently overperforming 1vX set like no-cooldown Seven Legion ? +3
- are you an emperor in 2014 Cyrodiil with vampire ultimate ? +30
- [...]

Things that increase P (and so increase X)
- are your opponents less focused than your are ? +0,1
- are your opponents under CP160 ? +2
- are you opponents using bad and unoptimized builds ? +0,5
- do your opponents use their spells randomly without any coordination ? +1
- do your opponents only use one spell every 6 light attacks ? +2
- [...]

The formula and ratio would probably use some tuning, but lets try with A = 7 and P = 1,6

X = 7/(1/1,6)
X= 11,2

Congratulations, go post that 1v11 video on Youtube !

Ultimate_Overlord

1vxers are arrogant *** runnuing around trees abusing new players, duelers are salty cheeselords, group pvpers are ball group zerglings. The only true way to pvp is sniping off walls.

Checkmath

sniping down from walls belong to the zergling type of players tough...