Maelstrom, Master and Asylum weapons

LeagueTroll

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I’m pretty certain that only a very small amount of people use Maelstrom 2H weapons these days. And I feeling that that percentage of people is going to decrease even further when the new chapter goes live.

I took off my maelstrom 2-hander when they nerfed gap-closers last patch. That was a huge nerf to the maelstrom 2-hander.


On the broader subject, these weapons should be BiS. Maelstrom ones especially. The time and effort it takes to get them means they should be the best available option. Took me 58 runs just to get ONE SINGLE lightning staff that i could transmute. And now I'm probably going to be able to hit just as hard or within 1k or so without those weapons? Lame if you ask me. This will not incentivize people to run this difficult content in the slighest. Loot needs to matter. The "Challenge" of the content is not enough to get all players in there. Give them a reason to HAVE to go in there.

Master weapons could all use a tweak. I can't see any reason fro the master resto to be used at all after this change. Master- 2-hander is OK but not great, Master destro will be worthless because the current effect it has is EASILY outperformed by monster sets. Master's DW can be OP on bleed builds i guess.

Ofc you can use master / asylum resto after patch, just bar back guidance destro and put warhorn back bar. Few ppl double bar 5 piece guildance anyways.

Abysswarrior45

vMA 2h sword axe and maul proposed change: Reduce the cast time of dizzy swing by .4 seconds or .6 seconds. I think

Asylum is still going to be used since the ult gain is really nice. Master could definitely use a slight buff. This would still keep the weapons BiS, but there would also be diversity in which ones people would use. You'd have NBs and templars most likely using asylum, dks stam sorcs and stamdens using vMA most likely, and the masters 2h would be preferred by PvE builds and dot builds deciding to use the 2h.

luen79rwb17_ESO

They should add the bonus stats back

ccfeeling

I believe Zos will buff Vma / master weapons, otherwise its not worth to go and slot.

5 pc set combination is so poweful. Players finally get what they want, previous nerfing is not necessary.

I believe risk vs return, dont take off our afford.

JXNwarrior

The only things that need to happen imo are to fix the VMA dual wield bug and to add back the weapon damage/spell damage/health/magicka/stamina bonuses to each weapon. Since 2h weapons will count as 2 set pieces now, I would think that making the ability-altering set bonus come from a "2 piece" bonus and giving 124 damage or 1000 mag/stam/health as a "1 piece" bonus would be fair. This would give value back to the weapons that some are lacking and fall more in line with the changes. A lot of 5 piece bonuses will still outweigh the ability altering effects but this at least returns them to their significance and might resurrect vMA and vDSA for some folks or new players.

sneakymitchell

Bevik wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Does 2H actually miss a bonus though?

The DW variants are not (to my knowledge) getting two bonuses and still take both slots in order to use.

There is room for buffs to make them more appealing vs running double sets, but they're by no means less than a DW option because both types use both your hands and only give one bonus.

Noone use Maelstrom, Master or Asylum DW sadly.

I use maelstrom dw. Still is pretty good if you still run flurry. And master is still good and asylum is more a AoE DPS playstyle might be used more in pvp but can still be pretty good if running a lot of dw. Or it’s good on a dw/dw set up.

Sky_WK

Turelus wrote: »

Bevik wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Does 2H actually miss a bonus though?

The DW variants are not (to my knowledge) getting two bonuses and still take both slots in order to use.

There is room for buffs to make them more appealing vs running double sets, but they're by no means less than a DW option because both types use both your hands and only give one bonus.

Noone use Maelstrom, Master or Asylum DW sadly.

That's because of their bonus though right? The effects are not useful where's the ones from Bow & Staff are.

It's not to do with their number of slots so much as the effects given are useful.

Master DW is incredibly strong in PvP right now.

gnarlyvandal

I felt the same way, having only completed vMA recently. I was quite lucky though and got all the weapons I needed in 11 runs, for the chars I have at least.

What I haven’t seen in these posts though is the mention of jewelcrafting and possibly new 3pc jewellery sets that might be better to use than two 5 pc sets.

In this scenario, if bis means having a new 3pc jewellery set on, then you’d most likely run 2pc monster and one 5pc set, and these weapons could still be useful.

The more I look at it the more I like these changes tbh. Definitely looking forward to the new variety in builds.

Honestly though, I’ve noticed only a couple k dps difference with my vma weaps and think they definitely deserve a buff.

This:

JXNwarrior wrote: »

Since 2h weapons will count as 2 set pieces now, I would think that making the ability-altering set bonus come from a "2 piece" bonus and giving 124 damage or 1000 mag/stam/health as a "1 piece" bonus would be fair.

Vahrokh

After 50+ vMA runs, still no sign of a single staff. 11 bows, a dozen daggers, shields, mauls...


... what's the point going on with this grueling experience (it's not even a fun challenge, it's about learning 1000 spawns by memory) if in 1 month all of this is going to be marginally better than a 10 seconds crafted staff?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I currently use Four of these weapons with regularity. VMA Bow, VMA light staff, VMA Flame Staff, Master Inferno. I use the first 3 as back bar weapons on all my PVE toons, and I use the Master Inferno in PVP as my main weapon on my mSorc. I also occasionally use the Asylum 2H in PVP, but I have mostly gone away from it. If I had a perfected inferno, I would probably play my sorc a little more, but mNBs just dont need it. On the rare occasion that I heal, I also use Master/VMA staffs, but I dont heal much.

Ultimately, I think the back bar weapons will still be used as they are. They are all really strong, and you dont really sacrifice much to use them. I think the usage of the front bar weapons will take a big hit. These bonuses are really strong when compared to a typical 4th piece set bonus (usually the trade off you are making) but the gap shrinks considerably (or perhaps disappears in some cases), when you compare the bonus to a 5th piece set bonus (the trade off we will be making in summerset).

My guess is that the most likely candidate to survive the front bar is obviosly the perfected staff in PVE, and maybe the master destro in PVE. Otherwise, I think most people will use them as back bar weapons and go 5/5/2 on the front.

Kanar

Turelus wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Bevik wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Does 2H actually miss a bonus though?

The DW variants are not (to my knowledge) getting two bonuses and still take both slots in order to use.

There is room for buffs to make them more appealing vs running double sets, but they're by no means less than a DW option because both types use both your hands and only give one bonus.

Noone use Maelstrom, Master or Asylum DW sadly.

That's because of their bonus though right? The effects are not useful where's the ones from Bow & Staff are.

It's not to do with their number of slots so much as the effects given are useful.

It's not that they are not useful. They just aren't meta enough.

For example my friend runs a bleed build with master axes. It's actually OP asf.

Right. I mean I can understand if these become worthless in all cases that they will need a buff, but we shouldn't be making them still the only choice for BiS now we finally will have more options due to 2H being 2pc.

The very definition of "bis" means that there is a single best thing for that spot and purpose. Why in the world should some random 5pc set be better than a special weapon like maelstrom, master's or asylum? Maybe trials gear is the only argument that stands; otherwise you're going to tell me with a straight face that some overland set should be stronger than a vMA weapon?

Shadowmaster

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

I have a hard time believing the Master Resto will be replaced by a Monster Set. Though several are mighty tempting.

it will be 5pc spc + 5pc whatever and earthgore imo, using staffs to get full 2x5pc and monster

Maura_Neysa

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

I have a hard time believing the Master Resto will be replaced by a Monster Set. Though several are mighty tempting.

it will be 5pc spc + 5pc whatever and earthgore imo, using staffs to get full 2x5pc and monster

EarthGore's proc rate is way to garbage to be of use in PvE IMO. I suppose it might hinge on how Infused/Harmony Jewelry plays out on Tanks though.
But honestly, Troll King, even Nightflame, literally EVERY other Healing Monster set out performs EarthGore. Troll Kings 54k per 35sec AoE Healing of unlimited targets compared to EarthGores 30k per 35sec in a limited radius. EarthGore is a crutch.

Edit: That however is way off topic for this thread.

Pr0fischimmler

Uviryth wrote: »

I hope not. I hope crafted will finally catch up a little.

I think it is quite unfair handing out "bis" equip "for free" - no skill requirement for best damage sounds lame. On top: if you can not beat hard content, what do you need "bis" for in the first place?

For exmaple, what do you need an MSA staff for if you can't weave properly, or worse, can't keep Wall of Elements up. Or if you hoplessly overcast Endless Hail. Those weapons and their own mechanics provide dps to those who can use them, while at the same time are not as mandatory as buildchasers think (apart from the bow maybe, i must admit). Again, if you can not utilise them properly, what do you need them for in the first place.

I know vMA is hard and stuff, and I had my fair share of pots, gold for repairs, and soul gems drained the first time I did it. vMA is practice. And so is utilizing vMA weapons, keeping your rotation going, and not dying in trials. Bow bonus damage is not ignorable, but perfectly utilizing a vma staff is a dps bonus of 1,3k. Learning to weave if you are not good at it, is more than 1,3k.

Olupajmibanan

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

I have a hard time believing the Master Resto will be replaced by a Monster Set. Though several are mighty tempting.

it will be 5pc spc + 5pc whatever and earthgore imo, using staffs to get full 2x5pc and monster

None of the monster sets is good enough to replace Master Resto.
Earthgore? Nice AoE healing along with 1 ground effect removal, but seriously, do we need more healing?
Troll King? Nice HoT with no cooldown, but most people run Vampire so Troll King gets less useful. And again, we don't need more healing.
Rkugamz? Does basically the same thing as master resto, but the restoring add just dies anyways quickly.
Master Resto was bad when it was restoring stamina to three allies around the caster rather than 3 allies healed by Grand Healing. However this is now fixed and Master Resto is mandatory.

Maura_Neysa

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

I have a hard time believing the Master Resto will be replaced by a Monster Set. Though several are mighty tempting.

it will be 5pc spc + 5pc whatever and earthgore imo, using staffs to get full 2x5pc and monster

None of the monster sets is good enough to replace Master Resto.
Earthgore? Nice AoE healing along with 1 ground effect removal, but seriously, do we need more healing?
Troll King? Nice HoT with no cooldown, but most people run Vampire so Troll King gets less useful. And again, we don't need more healing.
Rkugamz? Does basically the same thing as master resto, but the restoring add just dies anyways quickly.
Master Resto was bad when it was restoring stamina to three allies around the caster rather than 3 allies healed by Grand Healing. However this is now fixed and Master Resto is mandatory.

First, I agree, Healing won't run a monster set.
However... Troll Kings proc is a set 1500, Vamp or not. So this is an amazing healing monster set. Also, Rkugamz would blow Master Resto away if you could control it. Because it goes over to the alley and only has 5m range though, its a huge waste when it proc's on a mag at the edge. If it always went to the tank though then meta would be 5/3/2