Stop nerfing Strife

ssewallb14_ESO

The cheap spammable was a useful part of the incredible level of mediocrity that is magblade's kit. What is the purpose of this? In what context is magblade overperforming? It's literally the worst spec for open world PvP.

I'm sick of these ridiculous "on paper" nerfs comparing individual skills, rather than considering how the class actually performs in practice. Classes have strengths and weaknesses. Templar has more powerful healing but less mobility, DK has mitigation and self healing but less burst, Sorcs burst and mobility but poor healing and mitigation, etc etc. Yet we don't try to make these all equal based on individual ablilties or passives.

Magblade has no burst heal, no class shields, weak defensive passives, an extremely short offensive window, an almost entirely reflectable/absorbable offensive kit, the only class with hard counterable defensive mechanics, a dodgeable ult, bar space hungry offensive and defensive mechanics, weird and time consuming conditionals for offensive abilities, a hot that self inflicts damage, I could keep going... There are a lot of weaknesses here, Strife was a much needed strength and in no way over performing in context of magblades overall kit. Again what is the purpose of this beyond bean counting ability costs?

The fact that Strife gets a nerf while Stamina Warden trades a slightly more expensive Shield for EVEN MORE ult gen for it's completely broken defensive kit is utterly insane to me.

Please reconsider this.

Vaoh

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

The cheap spammable was a useful part of the incredible level of mediocrity that is magblade's kit. What is the purpose of this? In what context is magblade overperforming? It's literally the worst spec for open world PvP.

I'm sick of these ridiculous "on paper" nerfs comparing individual skills, rather than considering how the class actually performs in practice. Classes have strengths and weaknesses. Templar has more powerful healing but less mobility, DK has mitigation and self healing but less burst, Sorcs burst and mobility but poor healing and mitigation, etc etc. Yet we don't try to make these all equal based on individual ablilties or passives.

Magblade has no burst heal, no class shields, weak defensive passives, an extremely short offensive window, an almost entirely reflectable/absorbable offensive kit, the only class with hard counterable defensive mechanics, a dodgeable ult, bar space hungry offensive and defensive mechanics, weird and time consuming conditionals for offensive abilities, a hot that self inflicts damage, I could keep going... There are a lot of weaknesses here, Strife was a much needed strength and in no way over performing in context of magblades overall kit. Again what is the purpose of this beyond bean counting ability costs?

The fact that Strife gets a nerf while Stamina Warden trades a slightly more expensive Shield for EVEN MORE ult gen for it's completely broken defensive kit is utterly insane to me.

Please reconsider this.

There is so much wrong with this.... if you're a Magblade please understand the sky is not falling lol. Very far from it.

This change with Strife is debatable though overall likely aimed at:
1. Punishing Mag NB DPS sustain a bit more, which is currently much better than other classes
2. Allowing Force Pulse to be at least a somewhat enticing choice over Strife

ssewallb14_ESO

There is so much wrong with this.... if you're a Magblade please understand the sky is not falling lol. Very far from it.

This isn't an argument.

This change with Strife is debatable though overall likely aimed at:
1. Punishing Mag NB DPS sustain a bit more, which is currently much better than other classes

So nerf their PvE kit a bit, buff other classes.

3. Allowing Force Pulse to be at least a somewhat enticing choice over Strife

Why does every class need incentive to use force pulse? Should we nerf all burst heals so everyone has incentive to use healing ward?

zyk

I have always thought Strife compares to the DK ability Burning Embers.

Strife is a direct damage ability that provides a heal over time based on the damage done. (costs 1891)

Burning Embers is a damage over time that applies a direct heal based on the damage done. (costs 1350)

Yet Strife continues to have its cost raised to the point where it's losing viability while Burning Embers remains OP relative to it. They used to cost the same if I recall correctly.

I thought it was okay for abilities like Burning Embers and Strife to be strong compared to general abilities available to everyone because they are class abilities.

Please do not nerf Strife again. Do not balance ESO around trial DPS please.

Vaoh

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

There is so much wrong with this.... if you're a Magblade please understand the sky is not falling lol. Very far from it.

This isn't an argument.

This change with Strife is debatable though overall likely aimed at:
1. Punishing Mag NB DPS sustain a bit more, which is currently much better than other classes

So nerf their PvE kit a bit, buff other classes.

3. Allowing Force Pulse to be at least a somewhat enticing choice over Strife

Why does every class need incentive to use force pulse? Should we nerf all burst heals so everyone has incentive to use healing ward?

Well dang, why do I even post on your thread lol. I'm telling you what their intentions probably were based on Mag NB in its current state - no argument made. It's clear you're just looking for an echo chamber though so have at it and hope it confirms everything you've been telling yourself.

Marabornwingrion

100% agree with op.
Listen to your playerbase feedback, ZOS.

MrGraves

I agree with OP too, I think IF strife is to be nerfed it should atleast also have something to make people still want to use it aswell, at the very least. (I mostly use it just because it has a heal tbh but i might just use restoration staff abilities in that case lol)

Marabornwingrion

I remember when in the past that skill had 700 magicka cost and was healing few nearby targets instead of one...

Eh, good old times.

ssewallb14_ESO

Well dang, why do I even post on your thread lol.

idk? Presumably you had a reason for posting.

I'm telling you what their intentions probably were based on Mag NB in its current state - no argument made.

Fair enough. That's why I addressed them, even if they weren't necessarily your premises.

It's clear you're just looking for an echo chamber though so have at it and hope it confirms everything you've been telling yourself.

This is a weird thing to say. Why would I make a post on a public forum and address specific comments if I wanted an echo chamber?

Animus-ESO

Being that Magblades are *** monsters in PVE and PVP they need a nerf, Id say lower the damage of assassins will but ill take a slight nerf to sustain as well. Now if we can just get a change to how OP incap is things would be great.

WuffyCerulei

Magblades are the current top magicka dps. We all saw it coming.

Edziu

so this as class ability which should have some unique thing will have same cost as force pulse but if I good remeber this still have a bit lesser damage because of healing it it + lower cost...so if you want to raise cost of class skill then raise also its damage to not drop this over force pulse with acess for everyone...

also Im not sure as I have long break now...but did they fixed weaving with strife? or still its very clunky and much more comfortable is using force pule than this?

coop500

Hng.... RIP my nightblade healer I guess....

Marabornwingrion

Edziu wrote: »

also Im not sure as I have long break now...but did they fixed weaving with strife? or still its very clunky and much more comfortable is using force pule than this?

Nope, they didn't fix. And they will never fix it.
ZOS broke it with Dark Brotherhood patch while trying to "fix" animation cancelling. Weaving with Force Puls is much more comfortable.

exeeter702

coop500 wrote: »

Hng.... RIP my nightblade healer I guess....

Dont be ridiculous please. The cost increase is fine, the skill just as force pulse is, will be entirely manageable regarding sustain, calm down.

zyk

The dumb thing about balancing the game around trial performance is that ZOS has the ability to adjust the trial encounters according to the strengths and weaknesses of builds and classes.

This is not true for PVP where the encounters are against other players who cannot be adjusted.

exeeter702

Edziu wrote: »

so this as class ability which should have some unique thing will have same cost as force pulse but if I good remeber this still have a bit lesser damage because of healing it it + lower cost...so if you want to raise cost of class skill then raise also its damage to not drop this over force pulse with acess for everyone...

also Im not sure as I have long break now...but did they fixed weaving with strife? or still its very clunky and much more comfortable is using force pule than this?

Class skills are not inherently stronger than universal skills by design, i dont know where you came to this thought process tbh. The only way to look at this is plain a simply....

Both are 28 meter ranged magicka attacks with identical cost. 1 hits for slightly less but has a healing component tied to its damage. 1 hits for slightly more spread out across 3 individual strikes to benefit more from effects that proc on individual hits. It ends there, one being a class skill is entirely irrelevant.

Rex-Umbra

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

The cheap spammable was a useful part of the incredible level of mediocrity that is magblade's kit. What is the purpose of this? In what context is magblade overperforming? It's literally the worst spec for open world PvP.

I'm sick of these ridiculous "on paper" nerfs comparing individual skills, rather than considering how the class actually performs in practice. Classes have strengths and weaknesses. Templar has more powerful healing but less mobility, DK has mitigation and self healing but less burst, Sorcs burst and mobility but poor healing and mitigation, etc etc. Yet we don't try to make these all equal based on individual ablilties or passives.

Magblade has no burst heal, no class shields, weak defensive passives, an extremely short offensive window, an almost entirely reflectable/absorbable offensive kit, the only class with hard counterable defensive mechanics, a dodgeable ult, bar space hungry offensive and defensive mechanics, weird and time consuming conditionals for offensive abilities, a hot that self inflicts damage, I could keep going... There are a lot of weaknesses here, Strife was a much needed strength and in no way over performing in context of magblades overall kit. Again what is the purpose of this beyond bean counting ability costs?

The fact that Strife gets a nerf while Stamina Warden trades a slightly more expensive Shield for EVEN MORE ult gen for it's completely broken defensive kit is utterly insane to me.

Please reconsider this.

Agree terrible idea already worst class spammable.

Koolio

exeeter702 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

so this as class ability which should have some unique thing will have same cost as force pulse but if I good remeber this still have a bit lesser damage because of healing it it + lower cost...so if you want to raise cost of class skill then raise also its damage to not drop this over force pulse with acess for everyone...

also Im not sure as I have long break now...but did they fixed weaving with strife? or still its very clunky and much more comfortable is using force pule than this?

Class skills are not inherently stronger than universal skills by design, i dont know where you came to this thought process tbh. The only way to look at this is plain a simply....

Both are 28 meter ranged magicka attacks with identical cost. 1 hits for slightly less but has a healing component tied to its damage. 1 hits for slightly more spread out across 3 individual strikes to benefit more from effects that proc on individual hits. It ends there, one being a class skill is entirely irrelevant.

One is reflectable the other isn’t
One interrupts channel attacks the other doesn’t

Both these factors are on the one with more damage.

jrgray93

LOL you lost me at "incredible level of mediocrity."

At least in PvP, magblade is the most overpowered thing in the game, with access to nearly every major and minor buff, insane burst, debuffs, CC, and survival mechanics. Magblade is absurd, albeit it requires a solid player to meet that potential. Try dueling as a magicka templar and tell me again about mediocrity.

BigBadVolk

exeeter702 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

so this as class ability which should have some unique thing will have same cost as force pulse but if I good remeber this still have a bit lesser damage because of healing it it + lower cost...so if you want to raise cost of class skill then raise also its damage to not drop this over force pulse with acess for everyone...

also Im not sure as I have long break now...but did they fixed weaving with strife? or still its very clunky and much more comfortable is using force pule than this?

Class skills are not inherently stronger than universal skills by design, i dont know where you came to this thought process tbh. The only way to look at this is plain a simply....

Both are 28 meter ranged magicka attacks with identical cost. 1 hits for slightly less but has a healing component tied to its damage. 1 hits for slightly more spread out across 3 individual strikes to benefit more from effects that proc on individual hits. It ends there, one being a class skill is entirely irrelevant.

also count in that FP gets built in penetration and procs three status effects which raises (if you use that) BSW uptime, plus can be buffed through Asylum staff even more (both pve and pvp) also its getting buffed by engulfing (at least the flame damage part) and the overall its not much more damage maybe 1-2k more than strife/funnel/shallow but still in raid scenario if they're gonna be the same cost then every magblade will use this because, of damage and the extra randomly picking someone heal isnt that much and not really worth it
the only reason funnel is slotted on dds bar in pve over fp is easier sustain but if they're gonna be the same cost then it wont really much worth it at least if they dont buff the damage part of it
so in short either leave the cost and if they want to nerf something pick something else maybe assasins will tune it down or if they increase the cost make it 200-400 more or as said increase the damage of it (it only gets buffed by cp star I think its pretty late now for me so dont remember also if sounded rude or smth like that sry in advance )

exeeter702

Koolio wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

so this as class ability which should have some unique thing will have same cost as force pulse but if I good remeber this still have a bit lesser damage because of healing it it + lower cost...so if you want to raise cost of class skill then raise also its damage to not drop this over force pulse with acess for everyone...

also Im not sure as I have long break now...but did they fixed weaving with strife? or still its very clunky and much more comfortable is using force pule than this?

Class skills are not inherently stronger than universal skills by design, i dont know where you came to this thought process tbh. The only way to look at this is plain a simply....

Both are 28 meter ranged magicka attacks with identical cost. 1 hits for slightly less but has a healing component tied to its damage. 1 hits for slightly more spread out across 3 individual strikes to benefit more from effects that proc on individual hits. It ends there, one being a class skill is entirely irrelevant.

One is reflectable the other isn’t
One interrupts channel attacks the other doesn’t

Both these factors are on the one with more damage.

If people want to cherry pick their arguments...

One heals allies the other doesnt
One gives the caster 100 percent uptime on minor vitality, the other doesnt.

The comparison was specifically between both of the base skills for a reason, or should we start listing off the passives that these 2 skills come with as well? Being reflectable is a nice perk ofc but situational in pvp and a non factor in pve.

mb10

A bit ridiculous to increase the cost for no particular reason.

"To make it competitive with Force Pulse" lol is the most pathetic point to bring up, its a completely different skill with different use and is available to EVERYONE.

The class skills should be unique that offer unique benefits. I dont want another force pulse but with a different animation and slightly different effect!


Keep. The. Cost. How. It. Is.

exeeter702

BigBadVolk wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

so this as class ability which should have some unique thing will have same cost as force pulse but if I good remeber this still have a bit lesser damage because of healing it it + lower cost...so if you want to raise cost of class skill then raise also its damage to not drop this over force pulse with acess for everyone...

also Im not sure as I have long break now...but did they fixed weaving with strife? or still its very clunky and much more comfortable is using force pule than this?

Class skills are not inherently stronger than universal skills by design, i dont know where you came to this thought process tbh. The only way to look at this is plain a simply....

Both are 28 meter ranged magicka attacks with identical cost. 1 hits for slightly less but has a healing component tied to its damage. 1 hits for slightly more spread out across 3 individual strikes to benefit more from effects that proc on individual hits. It ends there, one being a class skill is entirely irrelevant.

also count in that FP gets built in penetration and procs three status effects which raises (if you use that) BSW uptime, plus can be buffed through Asylum staff even more (both pve and pvp) also its getting buffed by engulfing (at least the flame damage part) and the overall its not much more damage maybe 1-2k more than strife/funnel/shallow but still in raid scenario if they're gonna be the same cost then every magblade will use this because, of damage and the extra randomly picking someone heal isnt that much and not really worth it
the only reason funnel is slotted on dds bar in pve over fp is easier sustain but if they're gonna be the same cost then it wont really much worth it at least if they dont buff the damage part of it
so in short either leave the cost and if they want to nerf something pick something else maybe assasins will tune it down or if they increase the cost make it 200-400 more or as said increase the damage of it (it only gets buffed by cp star I think its pretty late now for me so dont remember also if sounded rude or smth like that sry in advance )

First off im not saying strife is a DD alternative to force pulse, i dont belive it has ever been a competitor in damage output. Im saying for the cost, they both have added secondary benefits that put them in the same tier of effectiveness in scenarios where they are used. You can name off the benefits foece pulse gains from destro passives, but you also then have to name off the fact that strife provides ultimate generation, passively increased healing output and max magicka just for being sloted. NB healers actually get incredible mileage put of the healing component even in scenarios where they are healing more than 2 targets, in practice, when played right, funnel health ticks are generally up on 4 to 5 targets at all times.

The skills costing the same is perfectly just. Nb healer and dps sustain is rather generous atm. Again, one being a class skill has absolutely no bearing on its stat budget.

Edziu

exeeter702 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

so this as class ability which should have some unique thing will have same cost as force pulse but if I good remeber this still have a bit lesser damage because of healing it it + lower cost...so if you want to raise cost of class skill then raise also its damage to not drop this over force pulse with acess for everyone...

also Im not sure as I have long break now...but did they fixed weaving with strife? or still its very clunky and much more comfortable is using force pule than this?

Class skills are not inherently stronger than universal skills by design, i dont know where you came to this thought process tbh. The only way to look at this is plain a simply....

Both are 28 meter ranged magicka attacks with identical cost. 1 hits for slightly less but has a healing component tied to its damage. 1 hits for slightly more spread out across 3 individual strikes to benefit more from effects that proc on individual hits. It ends there, one being a class skill is entirely irrelevant.

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Astrid_V wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

also Im not sure as I have long break now...but did they fixed weaving with strife? or still its very clunky and much more comfortable is using force pule than this?

Nope, they didn't fix. And they will never fix it.
ZOS broke it with Dark Brotherhood patch while trying to "fix" animation cancelling. Weaving with Force Puls is much more comfortable.

and this is what I mean...force pulse is more comfortable with use and easier with weaving + here we have to addition force pulse have 3x higher chance to proc something on hit than strife with slight higher damage with it

as ZOS will never fix strife this will be one of last nails to coffin for strife

@exeeter702 and here we are also...every class skill especially magic based have addition unique thing and isnt more expensive than skills possible to use by everyone and many those class skill are cheaper...now we will get class skill which the only unique thing is small HOT if you hit and thats all + skill is broken with weaving so harder to use than force pulse which have more uniques things...
like just 3x hit > 3x more chance to prco something on hit, unreflectable, easy animation weaving, other morph can have interrupt on range, chance to proc additional effects like burning etc, this all is in force pulse and nothing of those is in strife
please give me now reasons to use strife over force pulse for dps or even just to damage in pvp if I dont have problem with healing (if they will increase strife cost)

ccfeeling

Pve won't affected much

exeeter702

Edziu wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

so this as class ability which should have some unique thing will have same cost as force pulse but if I good remeber this still have a bit lesser damage because of healing it it + lower cost...so if you want to raise cost of class skill then raise also its damage to not drop this over force pulse with acess for everyone...

also Im not sure as I have long break now...but did they fixed weaving with strife? or still its very clunky and much more comfortable is using force pule than this?

Class skills are not inherently stronger than universal skills by design, i dont know where you came to this thought process tbh. The only way to look at this is plain a simply....

Both are 28 meter ranged magicka attacks with identical cost. 1 hits for slightly less but has a healing component tied to its damage. 1 hits for slightly more spread out across 3 individual strikes to benefit more from effects that proc on individual hits. It ends there, one being a class skill is entirely irrelevant.

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Astrid_V wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

also Im not sure as I have long break now...but did they fixed weaving with strife? or still its very clunky and much more comfortable is using force pule than this?

Nope, they didn't fix. And they will never fix it.
ZOS broke it with Dark Brotherhood patch while trying to "fix" animation cancelling. Weaving with Force Puls is much more comfortable.

and this is what I mean...force pulse is more comfortable with use and easier with weaving + here we have to addition force pulse have 3x higher chance to proc something on hit than strife with slight higher damage with it

as ZOS will never fix strife this will be one of last nails to coffin for strife

@exeeter702 and here we are also...every class skill especially magic based have addition unique thing and isnt more expensive than skills possible to use by everyone and many those class skill are cheaper...now we will get class skill which the only unique thing is small HOT if you hit and thats all + skill is broken with weaving so harder to use than force pulse which have more uniques things...
like just 3x hit > 3x more chance to prco something on hit, unreflectable, easy animation weaving, other morph can have interrupt on range, chance to proc additional effects like burning etc, this all is in force pulse and nothing of those is in strife
please give me now reasons to use strife over force pulse for dps or even just to damage in pvp if I dont have problem with healing (if they will increase strife cost)

If you value ultimate generation or the added magicka you gain from slotting a siphoning ability (where you dont have another siphon skill on that bar ofc), and in pvp i would use swallow soul any day of the week over pulse if i were playing ranged sustain setups.

And at the end of the day, funnel health is a vital healing tool for nb healers. So idk why you feel a class skill should take priority over a weapon skill for some arbitrary reason. Force pulse has always been the choice for magnbs going for optimal dps parses.

The issue with weaving strife is real and a seperate issue entirely.

Etrella

ZOS : "Seems alot of people are liking Mgblades these days. We cant allow too much fun. Looks like its time for a nerf"

Employee: "But Mr.ZOS, what should we nerf?"

ZOS: "Seems they all went back to fire staffs as well. Would be funny to see them constantly heavy attack with one. Lets do that, nerf their spammable, that should teach them a lesson. Oh and nerf some other random skill, just for the heck of it"

Evil Laugh...

Employee: Aye Aye Captain!

brandonv516

There's no need for this cost increase. Just like there's no need for some of the class skill changes.

They seem bored that they run out of things to "fix" but they end up breaking more in the end. Just my opinion.

ccfeeling

btw , this nerf is base on PVP , is it?

I have no idea why nerf Strife , in PVE , force pulse + AS infernal perfect staff are the BIS .

MacCait

zyk wrote: »

I have always thought Strife compares to the DK ability Searing Strike.

Strife is a direct damage ability that provides a heal over time based on the damage done. (costs 1891)

Searing Strike is a damage over time that applies a direct heal based on the damage done. (costs 1350)

Yet Strife continues to have its cost raised to the point where it's losing viability while Searing Strike remains OP relative to it. They used to cost the same if I recall correctly.

I thought it was okay for abilities like Searing Strike and Strife to be strong compared to general abilities available to everyone because they are class abilities.

Please do not nerf Strife again. Do not balance ESO around trial DPS please.

Totaly agree with OP and especially agree with the above post.

I do not understand why strife is have its cost icreased to bring it in line with Force Pulse, which is not a class skill, but a weapon skill available to anyone.

If anything, it should be brought in line with Searing strike