Should Dragonstar Arena and trials have a group finder?

Jimboo84

Yes, it's about time.

I never understood the concept of not having this implemented into the Looking For Group tool.
I work different hours, so I'm not online on the same hour as most people do. Randomly joining trials would be a benefit.

But important;
Looking For Group finder needs to work perfect, without kicking out randomly people or to deny people to re-join their current group.

Xuhora

Yes, it's about time.

you can have it, you can use it, but you will never ever see me queueing for a chaotic mess like a PUG VdSA

AzraelKrieg

patents wrote: »

Why was trials not included in the finder in the first place? ZOS wanna promote guild play or?
Hopefully it gets added so that guildless peeps like me get to run it at least on normal

It's because trails require a high level of coordination. Back when Aetherian Archive and Hel Ra were added in 2014, there was no split of normal and vet with them. There the trial and then there was Hard mode. The trial was pretty much what the veteran fights are now. Also, the group finder at launch was far worse than it is now so if you couldn't find a group to do a dungeon with it back then you had no hope of finding a group to do trials by using it. As @starkerealm pointed out in his post, trials are no joke, especially Maw of Lorkhaj and Halls of Fabrication.

Most of the supposed "pugs" you see asking for people in zone chat are groups that are already experienced in running them but are trying to get some additional numbers as they may not have enough people online in their guilds at the time.

EvilCroc

Yes, it's about time.

Yes. There is too much PUGing for trials anyway.
And It will solve trial stealing problem cuz leader will not be able to kick everyone.

Kram8ion

Yes, it's about time.

Oh damn! I just deconstructed my pve gear but still hope they introduce this

Prospero_ESO

No, I like spending hours looking for a group.

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

No Pugging in Vet DSA

If you don´t like Pugging don´t use group finder. But let those who want have the option.

You don´t really get the concept of polls do you.........

deleted008293

normal yes veteran maybe not... unless there is one more difficulty level, then sure

Dubhliam

No, I like spending hours looking for a group.

This happens with players not ready for vet content:

Sigtric

No, I like spending hours looking for a group.

This poll is so biased the OP clearly doesn't care about the opposite opinion and we are all wasting our time but whatever, I'll play.

Look at all the whining and crying that goes on about 4 people groups made buy the group finder.

From the "the tank doesn't know what taunt is" to
"I used group finder as a bow bow pet sorc and got kicked from the group" to
"the healer must have breath of life on all 10 slots" to
"lol what do you mean gear sets?"

Add in the kid talking about his "insane" 15k dps, that leaves his mic open yelling at his mom because she wants him to clean his room...

Or the guy who doesn't do mechanics because his job is to heal.


You think you're going to get past the right side boss in vHRC? Really?

Coordinating ults for Valariel?

Communicate being pinned during the lamia boss in Sanctum? That is even if you make it there because you kept getting your four worst dps in the hole during the mantikora while others in your team are laughing about popcorn. Or that one guy who finds it way to amusing spreading The Herps around to the group.

Run to pillars against the wall in the Maw first boss fight because of all the people standing behind the healers spamming snipe on the cats? Spend a half hour trying to wrangle all your pugs into voice comms to explain the twins fight, which they won't understand anyway? If you managed to get people who understand Rakkhat backroom lol during lunar.

Yeah. Comedy gold and a whole lot of pain is all this idea is.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

Veteral trials with half of the group CP 200 or lower, queuing up as tank, healer and DD. My dream...

Kolzki

Yes, it's about time.

Yes, but can we also specify no healer, no tank, no death, speed run farm exp cp9000+ only?

kylewwefan

Yes, it's about time.

starkerealm wrote: »

I'd rather spend hours looking for a group that can actually clear a trial than spend three ****ing hours in nHoF because the ****ing healer can't do their ******* job, and that ******** khajiit would actually listen to the mechanics instead of just saying, "boobies," and giggling, at irregular intervals.

Look, if you haven't actually run trials yet, I fully understand where you're coming from. As someone who's cleared every normal trial in the game, and a few on vet... no, you do not want this.

I know you think you do. This sounds really appealing on the outside looking in, but Trials require way more coordination than dungeons. It's not just paying attention to mechanics, it's organizing your team. Here's a few examples:

HRC: After clearing the first boss, you need to split your group into two pieces. A tank, a healer, and four DPS need to go with both groups. (Only, because it's group finder, one of your "tanks" is a snipe spammer in medium armor. RIP.)

AA: You need to get everyone on the pads. You need a tank in the middle with three DPS. You need a healer on both sides, and DPS with them. Honestly, this is hard enough to orchestrate with new players who are serious about coordinating. I don't even want to think about the pad mechanic in a PUG. I'm also not even thinking about AA boss mechanics, because that is the only faceroll trial otherwise.

SO: My first though is, hey, you might actually be able to pug this... then I remembered the poison mechanics. That would be hilarious in a GF PUG, and not in a good way.

MoL: *Psychotic laughter* Okay, so, normally the Twins aren't a stumbling block for an experienced group, but for a PUG? Let me explain. The room has a line of candles across the middle. On either end of the candle line is a boss. A tank, healer, and four DPS sneaks across the room, between the bosses, and sets up there. Now, the tank must aggro (but not taunt) one of the bosses, then taunt the other one. At the same time the other tank needs to taunt (at range) the untaunted boss. This is when you learn your second GF tank doesn't know what taunts are. And, for more fun and games, at various points in the fight your tanks will need to trade bosses. Also, if any player from one side approaches a player from the other, they'll both detonate, killing one another and probably instigating a wipe. And... we're not even done.

MoL Continued: *More psychotic laughter.* Okay, somehow you got through the twins, and made your way to the final boss. At various phases in the fight you need to send three runners (technically two can do the job if they really know the paths), who will venture out of the boss fight, where they must kill six hidden ritualistic, before they wipe the group. I've seen relatively competent players get confused on this point causing wipes.

*Sixty-Three wipes later*

HoF: So, that three hour thing wasn't a random scenario I pulled out of a hat; that happened to me. The other tank was CR153 (remember this, you're going to queue into a trial with level 20s who have no CP), the healer and at least one of the DPS were utter spazzes. Why do I bring this up? Because one player can cause wipes in HoF.

The first boss you encounter is actually a pair. You need to split them up, and then the tanks rotate them back and forth allowing the DPS to burn one and then switching off. While this is happening, the DPS are being mauled by poison. Also, because this isn't enough fun.

The second boss is in the same room. In this fight, at various times, you'll need to send four DPS to the upper platform, where they can disable an enemy and reset a system before coming back down. Surprise, turns out if anyone's DPS is low, when they go up, they'll kill the entire group. You can also accidentally kill yourself up there if you're not careful.

The next to last boss (I'm skipping the spider. I think it's a PUG wrecker, but I don't feel like writing that one up right now), is another group fight. This time there's three. But these mechanics are special. So, each tank can take the bosses on the sides. The center one never moves. While they're together they're immune to damage, so the tanks (plural, again) need to pull those two off of the guy in the center, then each group needs to burn their version. When the bosses get to certain thresholds they become immune to damage again, and need to be reconnected. This will burn out their immunity if all of them were at those thresholds. So... yeah, that's not happening with a PUG. Coordinated groups can get stuck on this. My first attempt took almost 45 minutes on this boss alone (see the aforementioned healer and draw the connection, though this was before that guild drove off almost all of its good players because of, yeah, that healer again.)

Now you're at the last boss. You're going to wipe. When you die he creates a clone of you. If he draws aggro on anything he can't reach, he jumps. When he jumps three times in a row, everyone dies. When he gets to certain health thresholds you need to stop DPS on the boss, because he will reflect that damage back on you. Also, when the tank dies you probably can't rez them unless you get stupidly lucky. He also gasses parts of the room. Hope you weren't planning on standing there. Electrifies others, yeah the wiring here is terrible, and releases spinning blade traps in the rest. And that's the safest space in the room. Meanwhile you're wiped by your own clone.

*One-Hundred-and-Thirty-Seven wipes later.*

You never see execute phase, you don't know what it looks like or if it's even real. You've never seen him below 75% health because your DPS keep killing themselves when he walks to the center of the room.

AS: The two side bosses are fine. The main boss is annoying. Good luck getting your PUG to deal with the adds that grant invulnerability to the boss. But, I'm getting ahead of myself, because they also grant invulnerability to the side bosses. In theory you can kill them first before clearing the fight, but that will never happen because of that idiot who sprints straight in and triggers hard mode because they saw something to attack.

Yeah... I'll pass, thanks.

You’re absolutely right. %100. Pugging Vet Trials is bad idea. It rarely works out. So you normal. Which are much more forgiving. Except for MoL or HoF. They’re still quite brutal even on normal. Maybe they need a step below normal?

For the OP though. DSA. Well the second round is usual PuG Breaker on Vet.

Mettaricana

Yes, it's about time.

Yes buuuuuuuuuuut....

Zos needs to improve group finder to not pick people who have junk sets or inferior combos like heavy armor double bow bar or tanks that dw and 2h.

NewBlacksmurf

Yes, it's about time.

patents wrote: »

Why was trials not included in the finder in the first place? ZOS wanna promote guild play or?
Hopefully it gets added so that guildless peeps like me get to run it at least on normal

@patents
Initially trials were included but they never found a way for it to work so it was later removed early on PC just after a few months of console launch i believe.

It’s not what others want to believe about them being hard or needing specific or certain types of players. It was a simple “broken” and not working situation that they couldn’t resolve and some team members left around that time too

O_LYKOS

Poll options biased.

However. No they shouldn't. Not for vet anyway. That's what friends and guilds are for. I don't wait hours for a group for trials or vdsa. I plan it with guild members. No hassle. No waiting.

Nifty2g

No, I like spending hours looking for a group.

Careful what you wish for.

Feanor

No, I like spending hours looking for a group.

No, because it will lead to content nerfs.

pod88kk

No, I like spending hours looking for a group.

Join a trials guild there's plenty of them. If they don't want you in their trials you're probably the problem

Stania

Spending hours looking for a group is far better than biased polls.

josiahva

starkerealm wrote: »

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Not voting due to biased poll.

There should be one only for normal.

Why? It's pretty comparable to some of the harder DLC dungeons, and you can use Group Finder to find groups for vet versions of those...

Normal trials are comparable to some of the harder DLC vet dungeons. If you're trying to clear vFH in a GF PUG... good luck. Same with vBloodroot, vCradle of Spiders, vRuins, vICP, or vWGT. I mean, if you're supremely lucky you might get a good team who knows what they're doing. I don't even want to think about pugging vFL or vSC. That just doesn't sound fun.

What are you talking about? I pug these vet DLC dungeons ALL THE TIME as a tank and am able to clear them 80% of the time...the one exception is vFH which pugs find extremely difficult for the last boss. All it takes is a little coordination and communication ...you know, using that little text box. So I am positive I could pug vDSA with sucess, and I have pugged normal craglorn trials plenty of times with "lfg" groups....it would be much the same with group finder. You people tend to forget....the REASON people have become expert at running trials and dungeons is PRACTICE...group finder you need to look at as a practice tool. Group finder puts more pressure on the members who know what they are doing...it makes the good players better by virtue of having to carry the less experienced. Meanwhile those less experienced players gain experience and become better themselves. Would I queue for a vet trial? Sure, no problem....but I wouldnt expect to be able to complete it. If I was that worried about completing it...I would go in with a pre-made group, but here is why I pug vet DLC dungeons: Its to make myself better....every time someone fails to do their job, its up to me to find a solution on the fly that will carry them until they can learn what they need to do(I cant count the number of times I have had to solo Chudan in vROM while trying to hit the extremely small last-man-standing rez window)...in the end...pug veterans who stick with it tend to be better players, and so I am always open to opening up more pug content...it may not be used by the majority, but having the option DOESN'T HURT ANYONE. You are free to never use it.

crobarXIII

No, I like spending hours looking for a group.

I don't spend hours looking for a group that's what trials guilds are for. I'm sure you can find normal trials guilds or casual vet trials guilds in craglorn. I remember how great the feeling of achievement was the first time I beat each trial with my guild mates, we worked our @$$$ off to get our first completes for some of us. Also, If a group finder is implemented & works the same way as dungeon finder works It shouldn't give you a score that could affect leaderboards.

josiahva

crobarXIII wrote: »

I don't spend hours looking for a group that's what trials guilds are for. I'm sure you can find normal trials guilds or casual vet trials guilds in craglorn. I remember how great the feeling of achievement was the first time I beat each trial with my guild mates, we worked our @$$$ off to get our first completes for some of us. Also, If a group finder is implemented & works the same way as dungeon finder works It shouldn't give you a score that could affect leaderboards.

Why shouldnt it give you a score that affects leaderboards? Be realistic....PUG groups would never come close anyway, but more power to them if they did. I dont understand people who are against this idea....you are free to never use it, but it doesnt hurt to have it as an option. It allows people to practice and get better, regardless of completion. It is also ideal for pre-made groups that just need to fill that last DPS slot to get started. Having the option available doesnt hurt anyone...regardless of how little the option may be used. I myself would always be in there pugging trials and vDSA...because I could

crobarXIII

No, I like spending hours looking for a group.

josiahva wrote: »

crobarXIII wrote: »

I don't spend hours looking for a group that's what trials guilds are for. I'm sure you can find normal trials guilds or casual vet trials guilds in craglorn. I remember how great the feeling of achievement was the first time I beat each trial with my guild mates, we worked our @$$$ off to get our first completes for some of us. Also, If a group finder is implemented & works the same way as dungeon finder works It shouldn't give you a score that could affect leaderboards.

Why shouldnt it give you a score that affects leaderboards? Be realistic....PUG groups would never come close anyway, but more power to them if they did. I dont understand people who are against this idea....you are free to never use it, but it doesnt hurt to have it as an option. It allows people to practice and get better, regardless of completion. It is also ideal for pre-made groups that just need to fill that last DPS slot to get started. Having the option available doesnt hurt anyone...regardless of how little the option may be used. I myself would always be in there pugging trials and vDSA...because I could

Do you honestly think some organized groups won't use group finder to get higher scores & have an easier time? Even Vmsa penalizes you for using the buffs. So yes in order to be on the leaderboards your group should do it without the group finder buff. Leaderboard position has to be earned by the group & having extra burn do to free buffs is not earning your score. The vmol progression group I was in was practicing the twins dance on normal & dps was only allowed to heavy attack to avoid burning the twins to fast. Vmol does add a convert mechanic on the twins but we just wanted to get used to the basic movement so we practiced on normal.

Tasear

Yes, it's about time.

I would willing go into these runs. Sometimes it's boring to have get everyone together. Also sometimes I don't like leading so yeah I support.

Horowonnoe

No, I like spending hours looking for a group.

starkerealm wrote: »

I'd rather spend hours looking for a group that can actually clear a trial than spend three ****ing hours in nHoF because the ****ing healer can't do their ******* job, and that ******** khajiit would actually listen to the mechanics instead of just saying, "boobies," and giggling, at irregular intervals.

Look, if you haven't actually run trials yet, I fully understand where you're coming from. As someone who's cleared every normal trial in the game, and a few on vet... no, you do not want this.

I know you think you do. This sounds really appealing on the outside looking in, but Trials require way more coordination than dungeons. It's not just paying attention to mechanics, it's organizing your team. Here's a few examples:

HRC: After clearing the first boss, you need to split your group into two pieces. A tank, a healer, and four DPS need to go with both groups. (Only, because it's group finder, one of your "tanks" is a snipe spammer in medium armor. RIP.)

AA: You need to get everyone on the pads. You need a tank in the middle with three DPS. You need a healer on both sides, and DPS with them. Honestly, this is hard enough to orchestrate with new players who are serious about coordinating. I don't even want to think about the pad mechanic in a PUG. I'm also not even thinking about AA boss mechanics, because that is the only faceroll trial otherwise.

SO: My first though is, hey, you might actually be able to pug this... then I remembered the poison mechanics. That would be hilarious in a GF PUG, and not in a good way.

MoL: *Psychotic laughter* Okay, so, normally the Twins aren't a stumbling block for an experienced group, but for a PUG? Let me explain. The room has a line of candles across the middle. On either end of the candle line is a boss. A tank, healer, and four DPS sneaks across the room, between the bosses, and sets up there. Now, the tank must aggro (but not taunt) one of the bosses, then taunt the other one. At the same time the other tank needs to taunt (at range) the untaunted boss. This is when you learn your second GF tank doesn't know what taunts are. And, for more fun and games, at various points in the fight your tanks will need to trade bosses. Also, if any player from one side approaches a player from the other, they'll both detonate, killing one another and probably instigating a wipe. And... we're not even done.

MoL Continued: *More psychotic laughter.* Okay, somehow you got through the twins, and made your way to the final boss. At various phases in the fight you need to send three runners (technically two can do the job if they really know the paths), who will venture out of the boss fight, where they must kill six hidden ritualistic, before they wipe the group. I've seen relatively competent players get confused on this point causing wipes.

*Sixty-Three wipes later*

HoF: So, that three hour thing wasn't a random scenario I pulled out of a hat; that happened to me. The other tank was CR153 (remember this, you're going to queue into a trial with level 20s who have no CP), the healer and at least one of the DPS were utter spazzes. Why do I bring this up? Because one player can cause wipes in HoF.

The first boss you encounter is actually a pair. You need to split them up, and then the tanks rotate them back and forth allowing the DPS to burn one and then switching off. While this is happening, the DPS are being mauled by poison. Also, because this isn't enough fun.

The second boss is in the same room. In this fight, at various times, you'll need to send four DPS to the upper platform, where they can disable an enemy and reset a system before coming back down. Surprise, turns out if anyone's DPS is low, when they go up, they'll kill the entire group. You can also accidentally kill yourself up there if you're not careful.

The next to last boss (I'm skipping the spider. I think it's a PUG wrecker, but I don't feel like writing that one up right now), is another group fight. This time there's three. But these mechanics are special. So, each tank can take the bosses on the sides. The center one never moves. While they're together they're immune to damage, so the tanks (plural, again) need to pull those two off of the guy in the center, then each group needs to burn their version. When the bosses get to certain thresholds they become immune to damage again, and need to be reconnected. This will burn out their immunity if all of them were at those thresholds. So... yeah, that's not happening with a PUG. Coordinated groups can get stuck on this. My first attempt took almost 45 minutes on this boss alone (see the aforementioned healer and draw the connection, though this was before that guild drove off almost all of its good players because of, yeah, that healer again.)

Now you're at the last boss. You're going to wipe. When you die he creates a clone of you. If he draws aggro on anything he can't reach, he jumps. When he jumps three times in a row, everyone dies. When he gets to certain health thresholds you need to stop DPS on the boss, because he will reflect that damage back on you. Also, when the tank dies you probably can't rez them unless you get stupidly lucky. He also gasses parts of the room. Hope you weren't planning on standing there. Electrifies others, yeah the wiring here is terrible, and releases spinning blade traps in the rest. And that's the safest space in the room. Meanwhile you're wiped by your own clone.

*One-Hundred-and-Thirty-Seven wipes later.*

You never see execute phase, you don't know what it looks like or if it's even real. You've never seen him below 75% health because your DPS keep killing themselves when he walks to the center of the room.

AS: The two side bosses are fine. The main boss is annoying. Good luck getting your PUG to deal with the adds that grant invulnerability to the boss. But, I'm getting ahead of myself, because they also grant invulnerability to the side bosses. In theory you can kill them first before clearing the fight, but that will never happen because of that idiot who sprints straight in and triggers hard mode because they saw something to attack.

Yeah... I'll pass, thanks.

@starkerealm do you play on pc/na? Do you want to join a guild? XD

starkerealm

No, I like spending hours looking for a group.

josiahva wrote: »

...you know, using that little text box.

You must be finding an entirely different caliber of player in the groupfinder, from me.

Now, yeah, I'm not being completely fair here. I've run across plenty of good players in the groupfinder, and had some entirely enjoyable runs. That said, the runs that go completely pearshaped are the ones that really stick out.

I'm far more likely to forget a good run, but the idiot who insisted that CP turn off outside of dungeons and trials? Yeah, that guy I remember.

I've seen far too many, which is to say, "more than one," group that completely ignore the chat box until the time comes to blame someone else for their failures.

I'd entertain the idea of trial groupfinders, if I didn't honestly believe those would degenerate into a toxic ****show whenever something went off the rails.

Kanar

Only for normals.

vDSA should not be pugged. Make some friends.

MattT1988

No, I like spending hours looking for a group.

MattT1988 wrote: »

Not voting due to biased poll.

There should be one only for normal.

LOL and 8 days later I’ve accidentally voted. Bloody hell......

Valkysas154

Yes, it's about time.

If it's made like WOW raid finder then yes
up the players from 12 to 24 remove allot of the hard strats and change the loot
they can even add a new achiv tab for it

ATomiX96

No, I like spending hours looking for a group.

Trial finder would maybe work for normal mode, for vet you actually need a raidlead and stuff, so i don't see how it would work, and especially since most of the playerbase are casuals, they would never be able to clear the content with a "random trial finder group", which would lead to even more frustration and QQ threads.