Magicka Warden PvP - strong, weak, balanced?

Torbschka

Hey,

I really enjoy to discuss with other magicka wardens the class, since there arent many. Of course anybody can comment here, its also interesting to see how it feels to fight a mag warden .

How do u feel they do in bg's, solo cyro and groups?

Im speaking mainly about BG's and solo cyro.

BG's - actually quite strong here. I guess it has to do with the reason, that there very offen allies or "other" enemies, which adds another flavour. Very often u are not attacked and if, chances pretty high someone other (friend/ally) will show up and the tables turn again.

Furthermore If 5 people fight each other and I have ulti up - going in with fissure + ulti often results in at least 3 of them dead.

Solo cyro (1vX):
Cant say "weak", it rather feels like something is " missing". U can kill good players with a good ulti combo and they got baited, but if they dont wanna die to u, they nevver will. Although in 1v1s if I dont wanna die I can turtle forever aswell.

Outnumbered u dont have the best killing potential, but its "OK". The usually " player" gets killed easily with fissure + ulti + x. Surviveability is a different story and is 100% build reliant. With my build I actually can turtle 7+ players for a good while (even good ones) if Im not getting caught open field.

In conclusion, its not the easiest and best class for 1vX, but it has its "fun" moments, which keeps me playing it. And my build feel very good and is even missing 6% undaunted.
I really feel dodgeable birds though, it did make 1vX and setting up burst way easier. I dont use birds anymore, everytime I think of using it, my brain tells me not to do since another combo seems stronger.

If u wanna discuss builds here Im really interested in hearing about it. Im personally "NOW" stayed away from necropotence and will never look back. The max magicka is nice, but I dont wanna feel like a "gimped" sorc. Im 100% believe u neec a good amount of stam/health on the warden.

Im running right now:
5x shackle
5x training
1x domihaus
All haikejo

Desto/2H.
Food depends on my Moos (max magicka + mag regen, witchmorher, TriStar etc.)

I always try to have at least 1,7k mag regen and 1,3k stam regen after 20% buffs.

I sit at
45k mag
24k health (before 10% buff)
15k stamina
Keepin mind - 6% undaunted missing.

1,7k mag regen
1,4k stam regen
2,2k spelldmg buffed (2,6k with glyph proc)

I do run Forward momentum and mist Form, the reason I can kite zergs with that stamima pool/regen for ages. Magicka return light armor shield in 1vX for endless ressources, although with my Option (mag+HP+immovable) I dont have a problem vs 3-4 stamina either.

Lets come together Birdmans!

Torbschka

Seems like every1 is playing/fighting stamina warden .... For reasons haha

JXNwarrior

I feel like they're ok but the combo is much easier to predict and avoid than say a mag sorc so gl killing a decent player with more than 22k health. I also feel like their toolkit is wonky as half of their skills are meant for melee/medium range and half are meant for long range.

I think if the bear could be vine-pulled and healed it would open up some cool gameplay. I also would like cliff racer reworked as it's an awful thing to try and land now. Shimmering shield also needs to be nerfed/looked at.

Overall they're ok, great in group and lacking in solo.

Yubarius

I've been playing mag warden for a month or two, have about 100 hours of pvp on it and feel mag warden like most magical classes these days, simply pale in comparison to stamina. Imo the biggest detriment is not having an execute. So many times I will get people to 10%, but they just heal up or cast rally in most cases, but next patch we'll get a new jewelry trait that makes all your skills executes which will be amazing. Another thing that I hate about mag is not having snare removal. You are either forced to drain precious stamina using 2h, suffer being vamp in a world dominated by Dawnbreakers being spammed left and right, mag dk and siege. People say "uSe pUrGe fRoM sUpPoRt LiNe" but don't realize it costs ~7k.... and only removes TWO negative effects, so a lot of times you won't even remove the snare, you just remove the burning effect or some garbage.

Vaoh

I can only really speak for BGs and Solo Cyrodiil. Haven’t done very much Group Cyrodiil PvP on Mag Warden.

For No-CP BGs it’s nice. Shimmering Shield kinda carries it though.

For solo Cyrodiil.... well against bad players it works great. Any class spec does.

But against decent-good players? Those who will snare you to mess up your LoS, and put out high burst along with numerous poison/debuffs? You will need Forward Momentum to survive in most scenarios which means slotting a 2H. At that point you’re just a much worse Stam Warden. Wouldn’t be surprised if that was sorta the case in BGs too.

This is a big issue with the Mag Warden as a whole though, which carries over into PvE. They need more DPS skills (Arctic Blast should be a Mag-based DPS Skill) from their class skill trees. Almost nothing differentiates them from Stamina builds in terms of class skills.

Waffennacht

I feel like your build is too weak against resource poisons in BGs

Domander

How do you land cliff racer against a dodge roller with the damn delay?

Checkmath

i think one of best builds for magwardens is a combination of shacklebreaker and necropoetence. the huge magicka pool can be once again be enlarged with inner light and winters embrace ultimate. so they have good damage and big shields. with bird of prey the also get mobility and the healing abilities are strong. in my opinion a decent class for pvp with a lot of kill potential against non pros. but i think in 1vX situations there are classes, that shine more than magwardesn, especially their stamina contrapart.

Spurius_Lucilius

With undodgeable birds gone, I now play Mag warden like a Sorc, literally. I pick up Master Inferno Staff just like mag sorc did when they lost stun crystal. I stack shield by using necropotence. I use Lich restoto get that sweet sustain.
I use 4 damage skills to kill people. fissue+fetchfly+flame reach+ bear ult
Bear ult is a super high burst execute that can come handy. But it is also very buggy and hard to control. It can deal 7K-12K damage.
I feel that I am strong in small group, but solo play is really painful. I can easily kill unskilled players or duel in cyro with guardian's wrath. However, if I want 1vX, I would use northern storm and Ice comet.

By the way ,I use dampen magicka, healing ward and living trellis to survive.
I have 47.6k mag
22k health
14k stam

1.7k mag regen
0.7k stam regen
2.4k spell dmg buffed

But I cannot imagine me defeating decent players, since I feel like I am a weaker version of a combation of Mag sorc and Stam warden

Torbschka

Waffennacht wrote: »

I feel like your build is too weak against resource poisons in BGs

Which build @Waffennacht ? The one I stated above? Since I have no problem vs poisons, since I run blue netch. I cant understand mag warden running the green, IMO blue netch is one of the strongest spells for mag warden.

In a 1v1 vs any stamina class I can just liiving trellis, forward momentum and spam blue netch. This is a free cleanse and heals u 700hp / second.

I aggree that necro is a strong set on a warden @Checkmath , although IMO for true solo outnumbered solo play I prefer other stats over max mag (in my case trainee set). Since u need mobility to outplay good opponents , I run FM AND mist form.

@Spurius_Lucilius well, thats exactly what I dont wanna do, since them I could just play the sorc (what would be superior IMO cuz of better mobility + burst(finisher)).

@Vaoh I aggree that u dont have the shield strength (even with 50k + magicka the shield drops like nothing vs 2 opponents) nor the mobility (streak) of a sorc - so need a sort of snare removal. I dont know why , butI dont need my shield to often with my plaxstyle, but its more like a magicka "Ninja" haha. If I wanna play the 50k+ magicka warden, I would rather combine it with Wizards riposte.

It seems like most share the feeling that it is good in bg's/group play - but not that great for solo play and since the bird nerf lacks killing potential vs decent enemies.

kerthas

I'm playing magicka warden since now more than 30 days (in term of hours spend in eso), and i agree woth few point of you, but there is some where there is some solution.

First of all, atm i playing with:

5x Nécro
5+ Lich on back bar
1x domihaus.
1 master destro on front bar and resto lich on back bar.
i have in cyro:
21,9k health without buff
48,1k magicka
13,1k stam

Race: Breton
1700 regen magicka
950 regen stam (without buff)

Mundus stone: The Mage
Food: Witchmother's Brew

3 Infuse + 4 well fitted.
Thats my build in Cyro with cp.

In non-cp so for bgs, i'm using 5x Shaklebreaker instead of nécro, for the max stam it provides you.

But this is clearly not my final build. I'm not going to tell you yet, because i dont know if its going to be really worth it yet. I just need my resarch trait to end. Just telling that i'm going to switch from bréton to High-elf for the 10% sustain, and so be able to go on tri-stat food with the mundus stone the Atronach.

I change my build (gear + skill) like 4-5 time for really learn all the face of the magicka warden in light armor (heavy is evil). And yet i have so many direction to try, so many build to go before i can really say yes this build is the best for me.

The Quality of Magicka Warden:
Its *** tanky even in light armor.
Great burst, Great heal. Good mobility.

The default:
No execute, *** annoying.
A slow gameplay.
Not enough mobility compare to other class, more harder to learn how to survive.
Not enough slot for our skills

In 1v1 its decent, but clearly not the best.
In smallscale pvp, its *** god.
in 1vX, well if you are in front of good player, as good as you at least, you will be able to survive but thats it. so its meh.

In bgs, its good, but as a dps support, like everything else btw.

Magicka warden is strong with some firends, but alone its meh.

IV_Deity

I tried the magic warden for a bit and it was fun to use, but it lacks an execute. Killing players below a certain amount of health became a harder task than if I were to use other classes with executes available. Survivability was great however. Magic in PvP isn't really my thing so I went back to using my stamina characters lol.

Spurius_Lucilius

Solo for a while today, keep using my Bear as execute today, successfully execute a good stam NB with my bear ult, 12k damage!
However, it happened three times. My bear just randomly disappear when I was doing all kinds of movement on the wall or in tower. I tried to call it back with command key but it did nothing. I can reslot the skill later, but I can do nothing during the combat. I tried use the Ult, but it just waste my ult points and nothing happened.
But being able to use an execute is so nice; I feel like zos still need to buff the bear and fix bugs such as the one I mention above. Give the bear a Gap-closer when activate the ulti would be REALLY nice. It would be super effective if it jump to the target instantly.

Aedaryl

Spurius_Lucilius wrote: »

Solo for a while today, keep using my Bear as execute today, successfully execute a good stam NB with my bear ult, 12k damage!
However, it happened three times. My bear just randomly disappear when I was doing all kinds of movement on the wall or in tower. I tried to call it back with command key but it did nothing. I can reslot the skill later, but I can do nothing during the combat. I tried use the Ult, but it just waste my ult points and nothing happened.
But being able to use an execute is so nice; I feel like zos still need to buff the bear and fix bugs such as the one I mention above. Give the bear a Gap-closer when activate the ulti would be REALLY nice. It would be super effective if it jump to the target instantly.

U need to download pet dismiss, it's an add-on making the job ZoS can't do with pets : giving to us a better control on them.

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1314-PetDismiss.html

U bind a key for disummon your pet, work everywhere everytime, you need to kill pets when U feel they wont follow.

Waffennacht

Aedaryl wrote: »

Spurius_Lucilius wrote: »

Solo for a while today, keep using my Bear as execute today, successfully execute a good stam NB with my bear ult, 12k damage!
However, it happened three times. My bear just randomly disappear when I was doing all kinds of movement on the wall or in tower. I tried to call it back with command key but it did nothing. I can reslot the skill later, but I can do nothing during the combat. I tried use the Ult, but it just waste my ult points and nothing happened.
But being able to use an execute is so nice; I feel like zos still need to buff the bear and fix bugs such as the one I mention above. Give the bear a Gap-closer when activate the ulti would be REALLY nice. It would be super effective if it jump to the target instantly.

U need to download pet dismiss, it's an add-on making the job ZoS can't do with pets : giving to us a better control on them.

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1314-PetDismiss.html

U bind a key for disummon your pet, work everywhere everytime, you need to kill pets when U feel they wont follow.

Not helping console

Tryxus

DC player: "Warden"
Me: "Magicka or Stamina?"
DC player: "Nobody plays Magicka Warden"
Me: "... I am a MagDen"



Anyways,

Magicka Wardens actually make really great group members in Cyro either as a utility fighter or as a healer, being able to provide big AoE heals, Major Protection, AoE Defile, etc... This is where they shine in PvP because next to all of that, they also possess both sufficient killing power and survivability. A good MagDen in a group can really make a difference.

In solo situations, if the MagDen is facing only 1 enemy, then there's not really much of a problem save for the MagDen's slow gameplay. Magicka Wardens are quite bursty and they can easily take down a single target but if the burst combo fails, then it becomes easy for the enemy to recover from it due to the Warden's delayed offense (and the fact that birds have become dodgeable). MagDen's don't have a quick follow-up or an easy to use execute like their Stamina counterparts.

And when there's more than 1 enemy involved, another issue that presents itself are the unreliable CCs. Deep Fissure for instance stuns only 1 target, the closest one that isn't CC Immune (and usually the one you don't want to be CCed).

All in all, Magicka Wardens are excellent in Cyrodiil groups and they also make very tough combatants in solo situations, though they still have several weaknesses. They are also quite versatile to build (I have 1 duel build, 1 for BGs and 2 healer setups for Cyrodiil).

Domander wrote: »

How do you land cliff racer against a dodge roller with the damn delay?

It's not that hard really. Most of the times when I'm up against a Medium build, it becomes a matter of anticipating his movements and trying to both get the Shalk to hit him and Defile him. Keeping up the pressure like that, wait for a roll dodge and then send the Cliff Racer after him

kerthas

well, ye its way more easier to kill a roll dodger with a magden than withe a magsorc for example, because you got so much aoe dmg he cant avoid: deep fissure + nother storm or perma. This combined rekt them most of the time.

Diddly_D_Potatoes

I loved my magden in CP battlegrounds. I could YOLO into a team on a flag point and expect some degree of success. It was a rude awakening doing that when it reverted back to no CP, I'd just get destroyed, I had gotten too use to that CP play style.

I think battlegrounds should be no CP, I just don't want to play my magden in anything but CP.

Magdens are great in (CP) cyrodiil groups tho.

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER

Magicka warden is pretty strong in PVP when played right, but not really good in PVE

Torbschka

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

Magicka warden is pretty strong in PVP when played right, but not really good in PVE

How "is it played right" and what circumstances u speak about, solo/group/bg's?

Malibulove

I have a lot of fun exploiting Befoul and OP Warden Heals in group-play but Magden really does feel like half a class when it comes to solo DPS output.

Cliff Racer and Deep Fissure don't synergize at all if you're trying to fully take advantage of both morphs, and Fletcher Infection is a dodgeable DoT you have to cast twice to take advantage of.

And at the point you're running around with Bird of Prey to Destructive Touch people with a Masters Staff or something... you're basically RPing as a Mageblade or Magesorc with crappier damage passives and no execute.

ThorinWolfgang

I have been playing magwarden since the release of Morrowind. Already have 38 pvp rank. After the patch with the nerf cliffracer warden lost his advantage over other magic classes. 15% bonus to damage is negligible considering that the skill has a 1 second delay. Also, the magwarden doesn't have such a strong burst a stamina has.
Pve - everything is so bad that you simply will not be taken to the group if you say that you are a magwarden.

Spurius_Lucilius

Aedaryl wrote: »

Spurius_Lucilius wrote: »

Solo for a while today, keep using my Bear as execute today, successfully execute a good stam NB with my bear ult, 12k damage!
However, it happened three times. My bear just randomly disappear when I was doing all kinds of movement on the wall or in tower. I tried to call it back with command key but it did nothing. I can reslot the skill later, but I can do nothing during the combat. I tried use the Ult, but it just waste my ult points and nothing happened.
But being able to use an execute is so nice; I feel like zos still need to buff the bear and fix bugs such as the one I mention above. Give the bear a Gap-closer when activate the ulti would be REALLY nice. It would be super effective if it jump to the target instantly.

U need to download pet dismiss, it's an add-on making the job ZoS can't do with pets : giving to us a better control on them.

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1314-PetDismiss.html

U bind a key for disummon your pet, work everywhere everytime, you need to kill pets when U feel they wont follow.

Thanks! I will try this out.

Waffennacht

ThorinWolfgang wrote: »

I have been playing magwarden since the release of Morrowind. Already have 38 pvp rank. After the patch with the nerf cliffracer warden lost his advantage over other magic classes. 15% bonus to damage is negligible considering that the skill has a 1 second delay. Also, the magwarden doesn't have such a strong burst a stamina has.
Pve - everything is so bad that you simply will not be taken to the group if you say that you are a magwarden.

The thing is, you can essentially take any armor set up that you have for mag Warden, put it on mag NB and perform better. Unfortunately

Torbschka

Waffennacht wrote: »

ThorinWolfgang wrote: »

I have been playing magwarden since the release of Morrowind. Already have 38 pvp rank. After the patch with the nerf cliffracer warden lost his advantage over other magic classes. 15% bonus to damage is negligible considering that the skill has a 1 second delay. Also, the magwarden doesn't have such a strong burst a stamina has.
Pve - everything is so bad that you simply will not be taken to the group if you say that you are a magwarden.

The thing is, you can essentially take any armor set up that you have for mag Warden, put it on mag NB and perform better. Unfortunately

Since I dont play mag NB, I dont have that feeling haha

bsupino

How about a Beetles, Caluurion proc and Zaan proc combo??? would that make a huge burst and solve the no execute issue???

Waffennacht

bsupino wrote: »

How about a Beetles, Caluurion proc and Zaan proc combo??? would that make a huge burst and solve the no execute issue???

That works, or skoria instead of zaan. You want frost reach, meaning Winterborn is another option.

Ran that set up and the skoria + winterborn set up. Both very fun and very effective in BGs

Morgul667

Is there a nice magicka warden pvp build around ? Im interested in trying it

kerthas

there is some in this topic , but what do you prefer, light or heavy @Morgul667 ?

Morgul667

Heavy would be nice :-)

Dont feel like playing the necro stuff

Checkmath

Heavy shacklebreaker and a light set with jewellry. If you play dual wield, warmaiden is a nice damage set. If you are build for an ice staff, probably winterborn fits in (purple rings arent available tough atm...)