Cloudrest is similar to the Clockwork City's Asylum Sanctorium

KingYogi415

Why can’t we get a new trial like the original 3.

Stack and burn should always be part of some trials.

These “cooperation” ones are garbage and Boring.

At least running normal should be fun...

LordGavus

I'm not a fan of this decision. I'll wait till the pts for my final thoughts though.

I'd liked the idea for AS, but I don't want this to be the norm for future trials.

Onefrkncrzypope

I wish they would try trials that would challenge the original 2 tanks 2 heals dps grouping. Or a force into small groups that need to coordinate or something. Multi boss hard mode is just dull way to make all kinds of aoe. Could just drop turrets for that. Maybe they could showcase some to make us get excited instead of worried?

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Maybe they could showcase some to make us get excited instead of worried?

That sounds like an excellent ESO Live topic.

Seraphayel

I wish there would be trials with 7, 8, 9 or 10 bosses. Something really big and massive like raids in WoW, Lotro or Rift used to be.

But then comes to my mind that ZOS is the developer and that they're ultra lazy when it comes to stuff like that. They've never done more than what was needed.

Faulgor

I think the idea that you can chose your own difficulty is great in principle, but feel they got it backwards.
The easy (and fast) mode should be when you skip ahead to the last boss, and the difficult one when you decide to kill all of the previous bosses as well.
Something like, the final boss gradually enrages the more of his minions you kill. That's just unlocking hardmode through gameplay instead of clicking a scroll, which seems great. 1 hour bossfights are not great. Fighting 3 (or more) bosses at the same time is not fun.

Narvuntien

Hmm I didn't expect it to be so negative I thought the idea was great one. I don't have CWC so I haven't done it though.

The complaint I get from people about HoF was that it was far too long and people don't have time to do it (I still haven't found a group to run it after months).

Then AS had this sweet choose your own length nature to it, where you got to choose how much time you want spend on it. this seems like the perfect solution to the trial power creep and time creep.

Now I see how if you are playing the hard mode you are basically having only one very long fight with all the mechanics instead of three fights with different mechanics and I see how that could get boring after awhile.

Perhaps they can find a way to use the AS mechanics in a more interesting way. For example you could have very different mechanics, where the bosses actually work together rather than all mindless doing the same mechanics on top of each other.

AS was only their first attempt at making a trial like that, perhaps they will improve on their second attempt.

Tirps

Yey! Yet another trial that most of us can't ever complete on vet..

HuawaSepp

Well I like vAS and it's hardmode and I hate vHoF.

vHoF always was a boring long trial with bosses and mob groups that had too much life for a medicore group.
If you know the mechanics vHoF is only a stupid dps race, no reason to randomly die.

But vAS is great. Only one big *** where players can get so many red fields under them that they shield and dodge like a true master but can't avoid death.

I really hope cloudrest intesifies that. We need some crazy pressure on us not a trial where the only thing you have to do is trying to always fire 3 spectral bows in 19sec.

Qbiken

Some people might disagree with me but here we go.

I personally think vAS is one of the most boring trials in the game. Unless you´re in a guild that can do vAS+2 below 15-20 minutes, Asylum is far from enjoyable. For an average group it´s not uncommon to spend 30-40 minutes on the last boss (vAS+0), which is in my opinion way to much time for a single bossfight.

The other thing about Asylum is how much the trial favours ranged builds. There´s a reason the fastest runs in there are done with 6 or more magblades.

Asylum is a very static trial and the pattern of certain mechanics in there makes it incredibly boring to play (rinse and repeat). One of the best designed trials in my opinion is veteran Maw of Lorkaj (vMoL), especially the final boss. Each fight doesn´t last an eternity, there´re room for mistakes and if you fail with a boss you don´t have to spend another 30-40 minutes with that particular fight. All bosses has interesting mechanics that requires good coordination (especially last boss on HM and the Twins). And one of the best features with vMoL is the ability to switch hardmode on and off.

I´m all ok with trials taking time, and it would be interesting in the future to have a dungeon with many boss fights and a lot of trashpulls. But the issue with Asylum is that it´s just too much "rinse and repeat", and vAS+2 is one of the more stressful DPS-races I´ve played with. Having "enrage" timers that will cause a boss or miniboss to basically 1-shot people after a certain duration is in my opinion also a very bad and lazy design (1-shot mechanics in general is imo lazy design). The "rinse and repeat" concept would be ok if it wasn´t for the fact you´ve do the same thing for 30+ minutes for one boss fight.

For future updates I would like ZOS to move away form the "decide the difficulty yourself" concept that they´re having at the moment, and try to make dungeons that are more like the old Craglorn-trials or even better, more like vMoL.

rustic_potato

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Why can’t we get a new trial like the original 3.

Stack and burn should always be part of some trials.

These “cooperation” ones are garbage and Boring.

At least running normal should be fun...

Trials are marketed towards end game players who have been vehemently voicing their opposition for stack and burn trials.
It is not meant for the general populace of ESO to participate. The idea is if you want to run a trial get good and join a trials guild or dont run it.

I personally like the new strategy. It makes it easier for ZOS to release new content and pointless trash fights are avoided. ZOS also doesnt have to worry about power creep on the end game PVE side.

Everybody here wants a trial like MoL. MoL is basically a stack and burn trial if you know what you are doing. Only the clueless groups get stuck on the mechanics and place the trial in an unnecessary exalted position.

Mechanical difficulty that cannot be bypassed by DPS burns are what makes fights interesting.

For people looking to start trials Craglorn is the base difficulty followed by MoL and HoF. AS and the new trial are meant to be for the veteran trials groups. Not everyone who wants to walk in there should get a clear.

bitels

rustic_potato wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Why can’t we get a new trial like the original 3.

Stack and burn should always be part of some trials.

These “cooperation” ones are garbage and Boring.

At least running normal should be fun...

Trials are marketed towards end game players who have been vehemently voicing their opposition for stack and burn trials.
It is not meant for the general populace of ESO to participate. The idea is if you want to run a trial get good and join a trials guild or dont run it.

I personally like the new strategy. It makes it easier for ZOS to release new content and pointless trash fights are avoided. ZOS also doesnt have to worry about power creep on the end game PVE side.

Everybody here wants a trial like MoL. MoL is basically a stack and burn trial if you know what you are doing. Only the clueless groups get stuck on the mechanics and place the trial in an unnecessary exalted position.

Mechanical difficulty that cannot be bypassed by DPS burns are what makes fights interesting.

For people looking to start trials Craglorn is the base difficulty followed by MoL and HoF. AS and the new trial are meant to be for the veteran trials groups. Not everyone who wants to walk in there should get a clear.

My problem isnt that vAS is hard, my problem is that vAS is lazy design and playing it is boring AF

greylox

I like it shorter, it's nice playing a trial on the first day it comes out, multiple times, instead of waiting ages for people to figure it out and start doing normal runs. I still haven't been in nHoF because I barely ever hear anyone shouting for groups and anyone I know has said it takes hours.

WuffyCerulei

I'm very interested as to how this trial is gonna be. I'm honestly excited for it. Most high-end pvers seem to be as well. We always like new content

And yes, vAS with more than Olms is a mess if people DON'T FOLLOW MECHANICS AND POSITIONING. You can't be standing atop each other or running into each other all the time. Everyone needs a lil personal space. I like that vAS needs people to actually pay attention and work as a team.

themaddaedra

I love when people reply either without reading or without understanding. There's nothing wrong with a trial being hard. Actually there are 3 mods one for almost everyone(normal), one for a better organized raids(vet), and one for hardcore trial guilds(hardmodes).

Now until Asylum, hardmodes used to concern the final bosses with extra mechanics to make them real harder. After Asylum it's just put 3 bosses and a bunch of red circles in a room and watch people dealing with it. And i have completed it many times on different characters. It's not a bad idea as long as it stays as a DLC mini-trial.

Now what we see is an expansion trial coming like this. And it's not cool. Not one bit.
Trials in general are for everyone, but hardmodes are for hardcore trial guilds and none yet appreciated how AS HM was designed.

Qbiken

.

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I'm very interested as to how this trial is gonna be. I'm honestly excited for it. Most high-end pvers seem to be as well. We always like new content

And yes, vAS with more than Olms is a mess if people DON'T FOLLOW MECHANICS AND POSITIONING. You can't be standing atop each other or running into each other all the time. Everyone needs a lil personal space. I like that vAS needs people to actually pay attention and work as a team.

Ye but repeating the same mechanics (which are badly designed) for 30-40 minutes is extremely dull. Trials like vMoL and vHoF also needs you to pay attention to mechanics and work as a team, but you don´t have to repeat the same thing over and over again for 30 min+ in those trials, which makes them much more enjoyable.

Now we don´t know for sure how the new trial looks, but if Cloudrest is just "Asylum 2.0" I´ll be quite disappointed. I think people was expecting something different to be honest. You could see signs of ZOS copy-pasting mechanics in the latest DLC dungeons (there´re many signs of ZOS "borrowing" mechanics from other instances in the newer dungeons), and I hope ZOS doesn´t continue down that road.

And just because certain content is challenging, doesn´t mean that is has to be badly designed or boring to play.

Dextail

I was fine with vAS HM it was suppose to be a “mini” trial so I didn’t expect much effort

However this is suppose to be a “chapter” trial, I would expect a full trial with trash packs, different area’s and individual bosses such as that of vMOL, vHOF or vSO. Not some half arsed make 4 bosses and throw them in a small box of a room.

It’s lazy design and a quick fix. It’s clear that the trials are becomingn after thoughts.

ZOS are the new Apple, adding a number and calling t new.
Can’t wait for the next new trial of 5 bosses at once!

sudaki_eso

Astrid_V wrote: »

I hate Asylum because it's boring as hell. But Asylum came with DLC, so it's smaller content.

With Summerset we should get a trial as big as with previous chapter. I'm very disappointed that ZOS showed their laziness again.

Same here, was very excited doing it for the first time and at the end it was like, thats it? its so boring i dont bother playing it anymore.

Zeni0s

Cheap and fast to produce let's continue!

You should have made a poll for everyone who's trialing.

DenniMyuu

I was actually looking forward to a new proper trial like vMOL or vHOF. vAS is boring AF and adding another boss to it to make it "more" difficult doesn't make this whole thing interesting anyway. I liked the trash pulls and going from boss to boss. It adds a nice variety to the whole raid.
10/10 disappointed!

RazorCaltrops

It’s so disappointing to see that Asylum Sanctorium is becoming the new standart for future trials, while most people expected to see a traditional one with trash packs in an expansion. They are much more fun than vAS and like many people said you don’t do the same thing from start to finish in a tiny room.

I don’t want to comment further before seeing it but this AS concept is just lazy design. What people wanted to see in an expansion was a glorified VMOL with optimized trash pack strats a key to victory, instead we are getting vAS on steroids with probably a last boss with 100M+ health and 3 mini bosses around 15M, all in an area that is smaller than a hostel room (probably).

Masel

I really hope they do something similar to HoF or vMoL, but the text in the announcement doesn't make me hopeful at all.

I lost a few dear friends to vAS+2 because grinding it is insanely boring and frustrating for anyone who is not a well-established high end raidguild. I can't even see myself going through a trial grind that boring again. I'd take four doable, challenging consecutive bosses over one mindnumbingly complex fight 24/7.

vMoL and vHoF had interesting and beatable mechanics that rewarded coordination. The only thing that bugs me about HoF is the constant resource drain. vAS is just looking at timer clocks and waiting for the next mechanic to stack on two others.

Firstly, too many mechanics at once make it really tough for melee players to actually be viable in there. vAS tolerates a stamplar at best for the potl debuff. I mainly play stamina because I like the fast paced gameplay in melee range, but vAS forced me and many others into builds they don't like. Not everyone wants to be a magblade...

No matter how I think of it, fighting four bosses at once sounds incredibly annoying, just as vAS is...

greylox

Maybe it was as simple as they noticed a lot more people running AS than other trials for whatever reasons and just went off the numbers.

profundidob16_ESO

the new 4man dungeons, vFL and vSP are awesome. Still enough bosses, trash, travelling and change of scenery and mechanics in order to induce the feeling that you are actually progressing. This takes the dulness and boredom factor out of a dungeon.

Also enough loot dropping since as you progress run after run you start killing more bosses and each time you gather more loot until you can clear the whole dungeon.

@ZOS please make a 12man version of such a dungeon and release it as a trial

Masel

greylox wrote: »

Maybe it was as simple as they noticed a lot more people running AS than other trials for whatever reasons and just went off the numbers.

The reason why more people ran it was the possibility of getting perfected weapons through weekly rewards... When it was weekly we simply did vitality runs on all characters we had to get as many on there as possible.

Tsar_Gekkou

Ugh, another trial where completing it on vet isn't worth anything since you can't get the perfected weapons from it. I don't know how skilled PC players are, but it's almost impossible to find people on Xbox NA who can understand conversions during the Twins fight on vMoL, much less beat vAS+2. Many people don't even want to practice it because they don't want to "waste their time with nothing to show for it." And as others have said, melee players in vAS have it rough already without having to live by the skin of their teeth against all 3 bosses at once. I just want more fun trials like vMoL.

FlamingBeard

Summerset is not a DLC, it's a Chapter. I would like for the trial of a Chapter to be fleshed-out and not have every corner cut until it's just a re-skinned Asylum Sanctorium.

Something like Asylum is cool occasionally, but definitely not as a new standard for future trials.

To whoever this request needs to be seen by, please give us an actual fun trial for our money, not another AoE mechanic-spam DPS race.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Flaminir

Aside from the comments about the relative difficulty/Randomness of the vAS+2 format (Which I do agree with) the big issue for me is the total lack of balance in the rewards. I'd be happy to run the trial (& the new one) with my guild as an event more regularly if the rewards were worth it...

Basically the same rewards for Normal.... Vet.... Vet+1....

And then a huge stash of stuff locked behind Vet+2! .......Skin / Polymorph / Perfected Weapons!

It's clear that no amount of negative comments will change the format of the new trial at this stage. What we SHOULD be doing is making sure that we give people like @ZOS_Finn constructive feedback about the aspects that may be able to be changed based on what could easily be improved from the experience with Asylum..

At the moment none of us have played it, so better to hop on the PTS in a few weeks and test first, we may all be really happy with it!

But Finn if you're reading this... the rewards were all bundled together in Asylum... I would suggest they need to be more spread out....

EG:
Normal: Imperfect weapons
Vet: Skin
Vet+1: Perfect weapons
Vet+2 Polymorph

Something to incentivize groups to push to the next level... .no good having rewards seemingly miles away, it just puts people off the huge road ahead to get to that level!

code65536

I was okay with Asylum since it was billed as a mini-trial and slotted as a bridge between a real trial (vHoF) and the next real trial.

Cloudrest was supposed to be the next real trial.

If it turns out to be Asylum II, I will be sorely disappointed. And annoyed. Even more so if it once again involves watching a stupid bank of timers.

Merlin13KAGL

As usual, it will depend on how it's implemented.

I kind of like the prospect of different tiers based on your groups' choices on how to proceed.

From the description, it sounds as if this will be even more mechanics and synergy based than anything prior, and perhaps less of a constant DPS race.

In short, it's too early to tell. If they do it well, it could set the new standard (and is honestly more interesting than activating a scroll or some arbitrary interactable for HM.

I am hopeful that normal actually requires some learning, requires mechanics, and actually teaches something in preparation for vet and isn't just a faceroll so people can say they've cleared