Alliances their warcrimes

MrGrim

So I've bin looking into what faction i'd like to join now that I'm coming back to eso again. And amongst the threads i found someone using as argument the AD's crimes against the argonians in shadowfen. Which started to make me wonder.

What are all the crimes each of the alliances committed? lets list them shall we :P please list any you know off and let me know what you think of the ones posted.

Aldmeri Dominion:
Massacred entire argonian villages and tried to disrupt their birthing ritual.
Skin Stealing stuff in shadowfen

Daggerfal Covenant:
Killed the innocents of bleakrock isle
Resorted to necromancy to keep protecting a fort. forcefully bringing their troops back.

Ebonheart Pact:
Enslavement of other races

Delta1038

I have often wonder this myself, each of them has noble and honorable figures and each have their dishonorable or merciless figures. All I can really say without thinking more about it is a quote fron West Wing, “All wars are crimes”. I will try to organize some info and post more specifics later though.

MrGrim

Delta1038 wrote: »

I have often wonder this myself, each of them has noble and honorable figures and each have their dishonorable or merciless figures. All I can really say without thinking more about it is a quote fron West Wing, “All wars are crimes”. I will try to organize some info and post more specifics later though.

Thanks in advance ^^ and yes. that is usually how it goes. each side commits its atrocities in wars.
I've bin looking into it quite a bit but the info is so scattered around the place. making it hard to find. so it's nice to put it all together in a nice overview.
It also doesn't help i only managed to play through the pact storyline once and that was ages ago XD so i don't know that much in the first place.

logarifmik

Each alliance have blood on their hands, it's a war after all, a nasty business. Aldmeri Dominion's mages also used foul kind of magic to disguise themselves amongst the Pact ranks. Regarding Bleakrock accident, as far as I recall, it was done by the group, lead by the renegade necromancer. I remember some tales about nords slaugher some innocent, but fail to recall any particular events on the other alliances territories.

Personally, I would like to see more such occasions to be introduced. More personal stories from the NPCs lost their relatives, grieving mother spitting in the Vestige's face and such. It will give at least a sense, that the Three Banners War is devastating and cruel, as any war is.

MrGrim

Added one about the DC using necromancy to defend a fort.

logarifmik wrote: »

Each alliance have blood on their hands, it's a war after all, a nasty business. Aldmeri Dominion's mages also used foul kind of magic to disguise themselves amongst the Pact ranks. Regarding Bleakrock accident, as far as I recall, it was done by the group, lead by the renegade necromancer. I remember some tales about nords slaugher some innocent, but fail to recall any particular events on the other alliances territories.

Personally, I would like to see more such occasions to be introduced. More personal stories from the NPCs lost their relatives, grieving mother spitting in the Vestige's face and such. It will give at least a sense, that the Three Banners War is devastating and cruel, as any war is.

what's this about AD and foul magic?

Also would really like to hear about some EP warcrimes. i don't think i've ever heard of them doing anything atrocious.

ak_pvp

Pact has less war crimes because they just want to stay free from invasion. AKA the entire point of the pact, but they have inner fighting. Slavery, still of non pact races. There is the pact called in by the traitorous altmer in the AD line, but they don't really do anything except get dominion war plans.

AzraelKrieg

The AD one was the skin stealing stuff in Shadowfen. As for EP, they did aid the Altmeri supremacist group the Veiled Heritance.

Emothic

Whatever "war crimes" you will find, you will know what each race has done to one another before the 3 alliances were formed. Before the alliance of the Ebonheart Pact. Nords and Dunmer used to raid, and pilliage each other. Destroying towns and killing civilians. Both races have enslaved the Argoinions. Of which the Argoniions have also raided and killed many Nord and Dunmer alike.

Before the alliance of the DaggarFall Covenant. The Orics constiently raided and killed many Bretons and Red Guards. Bretons and Red Guards were always at war with each other in some way. And even their current alliance shows how fragile it is becuase of their past. Bretons and Red Guards did banned togeather to fight off the orcs. Counquering their homeland and destorying their ancestorial cities.

Before the alliance of the Aldmerie Dominion... Well it's the same as the last two alliance. You see. These alliance are nothing but a fragil agreement between races. Of which when playing the game, you can tell in many diologs in several NPCs, And lore wise they did not last long. Mainly just a few very short decades. I believe they ended before Talos, conquered Cyrodiil and all of Tamerial, marking the 3rd age.

MrGrim

Emothic wrote: »

Whatever "war crimes" you will find, you will know what each race has done to one another before the 3 alliances were formed. Before the alliance of the Ebonheart Pact. Nords and Dunmer used to raid, and pilliage each other. Destroying towns and killing civilians. Both races have enslaved the Argoinions. Of which the Argoniions have also raided and killed many Nord and Dunmer alike.

Before the alliance of the DaggarFall Covenant. The Orics constiently raided and killed many Bretons and Red Guards. Bretons and Red Guards were always at war with each other in some way. And even their current alliance shows how fragile it is becuase of their past. Bretons and Red Guards did banned togeather to fight off the orcs. Counquering their homeland and destorying their ancestorial cities.

Before the alliance of the Aldmerie Dominion... Well it's the same as the last two alliance. You see. These alliance are nothing but a fragil agreement between races. Of which when playing the game, you can tell in many diologs in several NPCs, And lore wise they did not last long. Mainly just a few very short decades. I believe they ended before Talos, conquered Cyrodiil and all of Tamerial, marking the 3rd age.

I do know most of that. Im mainly interested in the warcrimes commited during the time where they become the AD, EP and DC not beforehand

Drachenfier

Emothic wrote: »

the Argoniions have also raided and killed many Nord and Dunmer alike.

LOL yea right.

Ley

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

The AD one was the skin stealing stuff in Shadowfen. As for EP, they did aid the Altmeri supremacist group the Veiled Heritance.

Reading this made me think of skinning a Khajiit or Argonian and wearing their skin as armor or just a nice coat. That on a large scale would be one hell of a war crime.

VaranisArano

The Pact uses captured Covenant and Dominion nationals as slaves, as seen with Redguard and Khajiit slaves in Stonefalls, an alternative to Argonians whom they no longer enslave.

Major Spoilers for Stonefalls: Tanval Indoril unleashes a massive construct against the Covenant invasion force, causing great destruction across the Stonefalls region. Then he kidnaps the son of the Dres grandmaster to gain access to a second construct.

The Pact uses necromancy several times in the Rift, where at one point you have the option to sacrifice a Reachman or let a Nord Captain sacrifice herself.

Otherwise the Pact doesn't seem too active on enemy shores, with there being one invasion beach at Auridon...though I may well be forgetting something.

MrGrim

Ley wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

The AD one was the skin stealing stuff in Shadowfen. As for EP, they did aid the Altmeri supremacist group the Veiled Heritance.

Reading this made me think of skinning a Khajiit or Argonian and wearing their skin as armor or just a nice coat. That on a large scale would be one hell of a war crime.

Knowing the altmer. i can nearly guarantee that that has happened at some point XD but not on a large scale. just personal selfish stuff

Emothic

MrGrim wrote: »

Emothic wrote: »

Whatever "war crimes" you will find, you will know what each race has done to one another before the 3 alliances were formed. Before the alliance of the Ebonheart Pact. Nords and Dunmer used to raid, and pilliage each other. Destroying towns and killing civilians. Both races have enslaved the Argoinions. Of which the Argoniions have also raided and killed many Nord and Dunmer alike.

Before the alliance of the DaggarFall Covenant. The Orics constiently raided and killed many Bretons and Red Guards. Bretons and Red Guards were always at war with each other in some way. And even their current alliance shows how fragile it is becuase of their past. Bretons and Red Guards did banned togeather to fight off the orcs. Counquering their homeland and destorying their ancestorial cities.

Before the alliance of the Aldmerie Dominion... Well it's the same as the last two alliance. You see. These alliance are nothing but a fragil agreement between races. Of which when playing the game, you can tell in many diologs in several NPCs, And lore wise they did not last long. Mainly just a few very short decades. I believe they ended before Talos, conquered Cyrodiil and all of Tamerial, marking the 3rd age.

I do know most of that. Im mainly interested in the warcrimes commited during the time where they become the AD, EP and DC not beforehand

Basicaly what I'm getting at is if you look the "War crimes" before the alliances, you will get your anwser oin the type of "war crimes" commited during the alliances.

Drachenfier wrote: »

Emothic wrote: »

the Argoniions have also raided and killed many Nord and Dunmer alike.

LOL yea right.

It was an effort to punish those who were enslaving the argonian race. You see some Zelous Argonian sub-factions in the game itself who wants nothing to do with the alliance and even plan commit terroristic attacks and even war against the Pact because of their past history of enslaving the argonian race.

Dapper Dinosaur

The person saying Ebonheart committed a war-crime by aiding the Veiled Heritance doesn't know what a war-crime is. Aiding an enemy of your enemy is not a war-crime. A war-crime is crossing the line by doing something particularly cruel for the same relative effectiveness as more humane options, harming large numbers of innocents intentionally, and in the case of ESO's world, using necromancy as a tool for your war.

Ebonheart is the best alliance for the people who want to take pride in their choice because it never has (I think) committed any despicable acts. They don't have any rogues running around using necromancy, trying to slaughter an entire generation of babies, stealing skins, or destroying harmless villages. The worst thing I can remember anyone from Ebonheart doing for the war is unleashing Balreth, but Balreth was a tool of war that set fire to a boat and that was about it, and then they went to special effort to seal him away again.

dodgehopper_ESO

You guys do realize that the whole point of Meridia showing you the other factions is that you are shown to see that the Worm Cult is manipulating all 3 factions. Those war crimes are manufactured and despite their differences Ayrenn, Emeric, and Jorunn are all decent leaders.

It is my theory that what happens with the Red Diamond (how can I say this without spoilering) is the reason the player character doesn't ultimately unite the factions and become Emperor. It is my contention that after the events of the main quest the main character should by rights be Emperor of Tamriel and would have the capacity to bring Ayrenn, Emeric, and Jorunn together.

VaranisArano

Ley wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

The AD one was the skin stealing stuff in Shadowfen. As for EP, they did aid the Altmeri supremacist group the Veiled Heritance.

Reading this made me think of skinning a Khajiit or Argonian and wearing their skin as armor or just a nice coat. That on a large scale would be one hell of a war crime.

Its more of a shapeshifter thing in that questline, but its used to poison the Hist and try to kill a whole nest of Argonian eggs. So basically the AD forces in Shadowfen are babykillers, and thus get the worst presentation of any of the Alliances in the game.

I tend to interpret it as all the alliances having their foreign forces thoroughly infiltrated or corrupted by the Worm Cult.

MrGrim

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

The person saying Ebonheart committed a war-crime by aiding the Veiled Heritance doesn't know what a war-crime is. Aiding an enemy of your enemy is not a war-crime. A war-crime is crossing the line by doing something particularly cruel for the same relative effectiveness as more humane options, harming large numbers of innocents intentionally, and in the case of ESO's world, using necromancy as a tool for your war.

Ebonheart is the best alliance for the people who want to take pride in their choice because it never has (I think) committed any despicable acts. They don't have any rogues running around using necromancy, trying to slaughter an entire generation of babies, stealing skins, or destroying harmless villages. The worst thing I can remember anyone from Ebonheart doing for the war is unleashing Balreth, but Balreth was a tool of war that set fire to a boat and that was about it, and then they went to special effort to seal him away again.

That is also the reason why i can't add balreth to the list of crimes.
I did however add the enslavement of other races to it. like the khajiit for example. because it's allowed by the pact if im not mistaken. as a kind of way to give the dunmer some slack for not allowing argonian slaves anymore.

Emothic

Also, War crimes are only commited by the lost the war. Just look in our own actual past. During World War 2 only the axis powers, mainly Germany and Japan, were charged with war crimes. Even though the allies commited several war crimes themselves. However since the allies won the war, they would never have a trial to condem themselves. History is writen by the victory. And those who win the war, have the say of what goes for the loser.

logarifmik

MrGrim wrote: »

Added one about the DC using necromancy to defend a fort.

logarifmik wrote: »

Each alliance have blood on their hands, it's a war after all, a nasty business. Aldmeri Dominion's mages also used foul kind of magic to disguise themselves amongst the Pact ranks. Regarding Bleakrock accident, as far as I recall, it was done by the group, lead by the renegade necromancer. I remember some tales about nords slaugher some innocent, but fail to recall any particular events on the other alliances territories.

Personally, I would like to see more such occasions to be introduced. More personal stories from the NPCs lost their relatives, grieving mother spitting in the Vestige's face and such. It will give at least a sense, that the Three Banners War is devastating and cruel, as any war is.

what's this about AD and foul magic?

Also would really like to hear about some EP warcrimes. i don't think i've ever heard of them doing anything atrocious.

I mean this ↓

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

The AD one was the skin stealing stuff in Shadowfen. As for EP, they did aid the Altmeri supremacist group the Veiled Heritance.

VaranisArano

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

The person saying Ebonheart committed a war-crime by aiding the Veiled Heritance doesn't know what a war-crime is. Aiding an enemy of your enemy is not a war-crime. A war-crime is crossing the line by doing something particularly cruel for the same relative effectiveness as more humane options, harming large numbers of innocents intentionally, and in the case of ESO's world, using necromancy as a tool for your war.

Ebonheart is the best alliance for the people who want to take pride in their choice because it never has (I think) committed any despicable acts. They don't have any rogues running around using necromancy, trying to slaughter an entire generation of babies, stealing skins, or destroying harmless villages. The worst thing I can remember anyone from Ebonheart doing for the war is unleashing Balreth, but Balreth was a tool of war that set fire to a boat and that was about it, and then they went to special effort to seal him away again.

Aiding a terroristic organization on enemy soil that's succeeded in destroying several civilian towns through Daedric intervention isn't a war crime?

The Veiled Heritance committed war crimes. If EP aided and abetted them, I'd say EP bears some responsibility.

MrGrim

Emothic wrote: »

Also, War crimes are only commited by the lost the war. Just look in our own actual past. During World War 2 only the axis powers, mainly Germany and Japan, were charged with war crimes. Even though the allies commited several war crimes themselves. However since the allies won the war, they would never have a trial to condem themselves. History is writen by the victory. And those who win the war, have the say of what goes for the loser.

I'm going to have to say wrong.
war crimes can be commited even by the victor. the problem then is. the victor will try to cover it up.
But you're using examples of PAST wars.
In the game right now the war is happening. and the warcrimes can be seen when playing the factions that are on the receiving end.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

Using your forces to try and subvert and cause rifts in an opposing alliance is not a war crime, it's a valid tactic. So both the magic used to "steal skins" in Shadowfen and the acts of EP at Qundeluun are not war crimes.

Things such as mass genocide, infanticide, slavery and necromancy are. So is using inhumane weapons to achieve goals (irl anyway)

Mass genocide or attempted versions in the game are committed only by AD forces in Shadowfen, and Imperial forces in both Bangkorai and Reapers March.

Necromancy (or summoning spirits) is used by all 3 alliances at one point or another.

Slavery seems to be limited to the EP territories, especially Vvardenfell where the Telvanni coast is situated. They are not members of the Ebonheart Pact though so the EP can't be blamed for them. They can be blamed for house Dres however, who I believe are members of the Ebonheart Pact. They also turn a blind eye to the actions of house Telvanni.

You could argue Balreth is an "inhumane" weapon but in a city under siege you use what's available to you and a brother of strife is definitely a way to break the siege. Also, applying real world logic of weapons to ESO doesn't work

MrGrim

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Using your forces to try and subvert and cause rifts in an opposing alliance is not a war crime, it's a valid tactic. So both the magic used to "steal skins" in Shadowfen and the acts of EP at Qundeluun are not war crimes.

Depends on how the skin stealing works exactly. and i quite sadly can't remember much of that. if anyone would like to clarify that bit.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Necromancy (or summoning spirits) is used by all 3 alliances at one point or another.

Could you give examples?

mb10

Lol wait until you read on Tiber Septums's war crimes.


The fact that people think the High Elves are worse than he is because theyre rude and disrespectful in TES V is hilarious.

He is no "Talos" and the biggest war criminal and potentially the worst person to ever live in TES.

It was his way or death. TES version of terrorism.

Dapper Dinosaur

VaranisArano wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

The person saying Ebonheart committed a war-crime by aiding the Veiled Heritance doesn't know what a war-crime is. Aiding an enemy of your enemy is not a war-crime. A war-crime is crossing the line by doing something particularly cruel for the same relative effectiveness as more humane options, harming large numbers of innocents intentionally, and in the case of ESO's world, using necromancy as a tool for your war.

Ebonheart is the best alliance for the people who want to take pride in their choice because it never has (I think) committed any despicable acts. They don't have any rogues running around using necromancy, trying to slaughter an entire generation of babies, stealing skins, or destroying harmless villages. The worst thing I can remember anyone from Ebonheart doing for the war is unleashing Balreth, but Balreth was a tool of war that set fire to a boat and that was about it, and then they went to special effort to seal him away again.

Aiding a terroristic organization on enemy soil that's succeeded in destroying several civilian towns through Daedric intervention isn't a war crime?

The Veiled Heritance committed war crimes. If EP aided and abetted them, I'd say EP bears some responsibility.

By your logic, if the US aids South Korea and then South Korea nukes a city in North Korea and thousands of innocents die, we bear responsibility because we aided them. Doesn't work like that bud.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

Examples of Necromancy (or spirit summoning) used or suggested.

In EP you have the option to enslave all the spirits outside Davon's Watch. This is suggested as the right cause of action by a Dunmer NPC.

I can't remember more for EP off the top of my head but will go back on it later and provide.

In DC there is Fort Virak and then a barrow in Eastmarch/the Rift where a necromancer causes the place to go crazy.

Again, off the top of my head can't think of more.

Will scour the quest lines for more

Erelah

In regard to the EP and the Veiled Heritance:

The veiled heritance was a civil war. My first character an Altmer sorcerer agreed with them. They continued doing things the old ways. Their rulers the ones which actually followed the traditions and rule. Spend a life time away and not even take the proper steps to be monarchs. As the leader of the Veiled Heritance stated in Cold Harbour, "At least my supporters chose to follow me."

Now would I ever wanted her to be Empress? No, however she never wanted to be empress she wanted to rule her people. As for the EP. They picked a side in a civil war. A side which all the nobles of the AD seemed to support, more importantly a side that what not trying to conqueror all of Tamrial by become Empress (and thus competing with them).

MrGrim

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Examples of Necromancy (or spirit summoning) used or suggested.

In EP you have the option to enslave all the spirits outside Davon's Watch. This is suggested as the right cause of action by a Dunmer NPC.

I can't remember more for EP off the top of my head but will go back on it later and provide.

In DC there is Fort Virak and then a barrow in Eastmarch/the Rift where a necromancer causes the place to go crazy.

Again, off the top of my head can't think of more.

Will scour the quest lines for more

Apart from the EP one. are those necromancers under orders from the factions or?
Alsoas for the EP one. idk if i can call that a factions warcrime as the decision is made by the player so it could be that that never happened at all.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

MrGrim wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Examples of Necromancy (or spirit summoning) used or suggested.

In EP you have the option to enslave all the spirits outside Davon's Watch. This is suggested as the right cause of action by a Dunmer NPC.

I can't remember more for EP off the top of my head but will go back on it later and provide.

In DC there is Fort Virak and then a barrow in Eastmarch/the Rift where a necromancer causes the place to go crazy.

Again, off the top of my head can't think of more.

Will scour the quest lines for more

Apart from the EP one. are those necromancers under orders from the factions or?
Alsoas for the EP one. idk if i can call that a factions warcrime as the decision is made by the player so it could be that that never happened at all.

The Fort Virak one takes place as part of the Daggerfall invasion of Stonefalls so the commander in charge committing those actions makes it a war crime.

The stonefalls one i mentioned as it was the first which came to mind, and was there to make players think as to whether they did enslave them all

dodgehopper_ESO

By the way if you pay attention it is clear there are individuals who balk at what they're asked to do.