Cyrodiil: Poor map design!

Ectheliontnacil · March 2018

Despite the fact that Cyrodiil is both vast and breathtakingly beautiful, nobody actually explores this zone. All players do is fight between the inner keeps, on a lucky day you might get to see a scroll chase. Essentially the map could consist of narrow corridors, connecting the keeps and outpousts and players wouldn't even notice. Countless hours of developer work go to waste this way and Cyrodiil is transformed into the smallest zone of the game, because there is no incentive whatsoever to leave the beaten track and explore. I am weary of fighting in the same areas over and over, while all the awesome pvp locations in the hidden depths of Cyrodiil taunt me from afar.

In my opinion there is a very simple solution to this problem. Place new flags evenly across the zone, all of them easily flipped and offering large offensive ticks (3k ap), massively increase the Cropsford, Vlastarus and Bruma ticks and reduce the keep and outpost ticks. This will draw out zergs and spread them evenly across the map, since keep capture is no longer as rewarding as fighting out in the open (taking keeps takes much longer than taking flags and will no longer yield as many ap as it used to). With any luck it will also increase performance

.

Let me know what you think!

Turelus · March 2018

The incentive to leave and explore was the PvE side of the zone.

The idea was it would be a huge open zone for hundreds of players doing PvE and PvP at the same time, however the reduction in population caps and general lack of worth from the PvE/Exploration side killed that off.

Ectheliontnacil · March 2018

Yes, well atm hundreds of players roaming around Cyrodiil is wishful thinking. But replacing keeps and outposts with more dynamic and evenly distributed objectives might incentivise players to leave the massive zergs and farm ap in smaller groups all across the map.
And since zergs form the bottom of the food chain in pvp, it is vital to break them up. This in turn will force guild raids and destro trains to adapt and with some luck we will see ballgroup clashes disappear in favor of small open field skirmishes.

Azurya · March 2018

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Despite the fact that Cyrodiil is both vast and breathtakingly beautiful, nobody actually explores this zone. All players do is fight between the inner keeps, on a lucky day you might get to see a scroll chase. Essentially the map could consist of narrow corridors, connecting the keeps and outpousts and players wouldn't even notice. Countless hours of developer work go to waste this way and Cyrodiil is transformed into the smallest zone of the game, because there is no incentive whatsoever to leave the beaten track and explore. I am weary of fighting in the same areas over and over, while all the awesome pvp locations in the hidden depths of Cyrodiil taunt me from afar.

In my opinion there is a very simple solution to this problem. Place new flags evenly across the zone, all of them easily flipped and offering large offensive ticks (3k ap), massively increase the Cropsford, Vlastarus and Bruma ticks and reduce the keep and outpost ticks. This will draw out zergs and spread them evenly across the map, since keep capture is no longer as rewarding as fighting out in the open (taking keeps takes much longer than taking flags and will no longer yield as many ap as it used to). With any luck it will also increase performance .

Let me know what you think!

where somebody is on the map is his/her own decision.
you shouldn´t force ppl to do things they don´t like
I personally go everywhere and explore all, but that is not everybodies idea of having fun and playing this game

Royaji · March 2018

We don't even need any new flags and objectives. Just move the damn resources a bit away from keeps instead of organizing them in neat little tirangles.

Anotherone773 · March 2018

Turelus wrote: »

The incentive to leave and explore was the PvE side of the zone.

The idea was it would be a huge open zone for hundreds of players doing PvE and PvP at the same time, however the reduction in population caps and general lack of worth from the PvE/Exploration side killed that off.

I explored that vast openness one evening. I ran around for a few hours and saw one other person. No resource nodes, no creatures, no npcs once you get outside a very few select "POI" Its just vast boring landscape with nothing to do.

Its really sad they nerfed cyro into a useless zone. I loved running around cyro in oblivion exploring. No point in ever leaving the fighting areas in this one. Im sure they did it for performance issues, but they should of invested more money into hardware instead of making, what is the largest zone in the game, into a mostly useless backdrop.

Ectheliontnacil · March 2018

@Azurya

Read again carefully.

I am not "forcing" anyone to go anywhere. If anything, the current system "forces" people to play between the same keeps all the time, as there is literally nothing going on in the rest of Cyrodiil.

Besides plenty of people would love the opportunity to explore the rest of Cyrodiil, but it's no fun to go there if those parts are completely devoid of life.

Azurya · March 2018

there is much life there
and sometimes even to much, for my taste

and the systems forces nobody, those who don´t go anywhere are those wanting to become grandoverlord or such
pity for them, cause they miss much

Rianai · March 2018

Lack of objectives isn't the reason why players stack, so adding more objectives won't improve anything in this regard. And offensive ticks in general don't encourage fighting nor spreading out. You would just get zergs running from one flag to the next one for easy AP farm.

The map is empty for the most part, because it is too big for the amount of present players.

VaranisArano · March 2018

Royaji wrote: »

We don't even need any new flags and objectives. Just move the damn resources a bit away from keeps instead of organizing them in neat little tirangles.

Considering that the resources upgrade the keeps based on how long you've held them, I think they fit just fine where they are at. They are meant to be attached to the keeps. If you want completely separate places to fight, ask for more or better placed towns.

Personally, I think Bruma is the only well-placed town on the map and that Cropsford and Vlastarus need to be moved north in between their nearest outpost and a keep just like Bruma is between Bleakers and Dragonclaw. Bruma sees a ton of fighting thanks to its placement.

Maura_Neysa · March 2018

I like this idea. Especially if campaign scoring doesn't change with it. So that holding Keeps is good for the campaign and those that actually care about the RP for the War, tactics and strategy. AP farmers could flag chase to their hearts desired. Especially if you then attach Emperor to both AP and War tactics. (Something like most AP and present during Keep tick)

Though what I would really like to see;
- PvP expanded to all zones.
- PvP status controlled by NPC "Recruiters"
- Active Duty Military - Attack-able anywhere outside of instance items
- On-Leave - Keep your Military rank. Not attack-able anywhere except Cryodiil
- Civilian - No Military rank (lose it if you had some) Not attack-able anywhere even Cryodiil
- If you are currently a Civilian, you can join any Alliance (Would allow Alliance switching)
This would add such a huge leave of PvP, particularly for the top end Players to hunt.

Bonus Idea - When you are killed, you have the option of placing a Bounty (With your own gold) on the player that killed you. With the Fighters Guild Bounty Hunter Passive, you can then pick up a Bounty and attempt to collect. NB Gank away.

Turelus · March 2018

Rianai wrote: »

Lack of objectives isn't the reason why players stack, so adding more objectives won't improve anything in this regard. And offensive ticks in general don't encourage fighting nor spreading out. You would just get zergs running from one flag to the next one for easy AP farm.

The map is empty for the most part, because it is too big for the amount of present players.

Yup, if Cyrodiil could support a couple of hundred per faction (as it was designed for) it would be fine.

Ectheliontnacil · March 2018

Azurya wrote: »

there is much life there
and sometimes even to much, for my taste

and the systems forces nobody, those who don´t go anywhere are those wanting to become grandoverlord or such
pity for them, cause they miss much

@Azurya

You are obviously not interested in PvP.

"Too much life for your taste", oh come on! If you want to explore dead zones I have no problem with that, but Cyrodiil, the only PvP zone in the game, should not be dead. And not just people who want to become grand overlord are forced to play in between keeps all the time, anyone who actually wants to PvP needs to fight between keeps.

Sandman929 · March 2018

I do like the idea of either:
A: Spreading resources further from keeps
And/Or
B: Creating more resources on the empty landscape.

Not every farm, lumber mill or mine has to be within spitting distance of a castle, and putting some capture points on the barren landscape would be a nice addition and possibly add some interesting, and somewhat realistic, game play experiences.
Can't take the Emp keeps? Burn the countryside. Owning a majority of resources (with more resources) would mean the campaign score is effected greatly by that strategy and faction stacks would have to try to take those resources back and spread out.
Now if only more people cared about the campaign score. But that's another problem to address.

Etaniel · March 2018

Ill just leave this here :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNH6kVKeAfE

Mostly the second part of the video

And that had been an issue for a while, nothing's gonna change

geonsocal · March 2018

the less traveled spaces are great in cyrodiil, although I do wish there were more resource nodes to farm...

one of my favorite spots in all of tamriel is the lunar fang docks...gorgeous location...

I also really like the layout of cheydinhal...wish there was a reason to do some large scale AvAvA battling there...

based on our current pops - you could probably simply keep the emp keeps, outposts and glademist, arrius, and faregyl...

the rest of it could be annexed by the surrounding zones...

IlCanis_LupuslI · March 2018

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

I like this idea. Especially if campaign scoring doesn't change with it. So that holding Keeps is good for the campaign and those that actually care about the RP for the War, tactics and strategy. AP farmers could flag chase to their hearts desired. Especially if you then attach Emperor to both AP and War tactics. (Something like most AP and present during Keep tick)

Though what I would really like to see;
- PvP expanded to all zones.
- PvP status controlled by NPC "Recruiters"
- Active Duty Military - Attack-able anywhere outside of instance items
- On-Leave - Keep your Military rank. Not attack-able anywhere except Cryodiil
- Civilian - No Military rank (lose it if you had some) Not attack-able anywhere even Cryodiil
- If you are currently a Civilian, you can join any Alliance (Would allow Alliance switching)
This would add such a huge leave of PvP, particularly for the top end Players to hunt.

Bonus Idea - When you are killed, you have the option of placing a Bounty (With your own gold) on the player that killed you. With the Fighters Guild Bounty Hunter Passive, you can then pick up a Bounty and attempt to collect. NB Gank away.

That would be neching awesome!!

QuebraRegra · March 2018

rom an old thread:

✭✭✭✭
This ties into an idea I had...

Come DARKBROTHERHOOD content, I'd love to see a "player bounty" with could be set by another player (think GTAO player set contracts).

Obviously this would only work within Cyrodill, but could create some fun for "hunters" and their "bounty". Bounties could be set with variable amounts of gold against a particular player. Other players could choose to boost the bounty against a particular player with add gold. A player could "buy out" their own bounty.

A player with a set bounty could be anywhere in Cyrodill, and anytime an action was taken (capture, kill, chevos), the map would get an icon featuring their last known location... or maybe the icon would track with them for a time (3 minutes?), then leave a "last known". Anyone accepting a bounty would appear on a list of hunters the target player could see, with the same tracking mechanism for hunters. Maybe hunters would have to buy into the bounty for gold... If the hunter could kill the hunters, he pot could be claimed.

GTAO has a mechanism where after "x" amount of time, is the targeted player is able to evade the kill, then the pot goes to him/her. I'd like to see as long as a percentage of the pot is added BEFORE expiration, then the clock could be extended. Logging out, or leaving cyrodill could either cancel the "contract", or simply halt the clock.

Somebody just killed you in PVP and you want revenge? Who ya gonna call?

Adult hide, seek, and kill for fun and profit!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2116374/#Comment_2116374

arkansas_ESO · March 2018

There was a lot of activity in the usually desolate spots of Cyrodiil back during the ESO anniversary event, which made all daily quests (including the ones in the towns in Cyrodiil) drop runeboxes containing motifs, upgrade materials, furniture plans, and other valuable stuff. All they need to do is make the quests worthwhile again and the population will spread out.

SirAndy · March 2018

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

nobody actually explores this zone.

Speak for yourself ...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3626724/#Comment_3626724

Maura_Neysa · March 2018

QuebraRegra wrote: »

rom an old thread:

✭✭✭✭
This ties into an idea I had...

Come DARKBROTHERHOOD content, I'd love to see a "player bounty" with could be set by another player (think GTAO player set contracts).

Obviously this would only work within Cyrodill, but could create some fun for "hunters" and their "bounty". Bounties could be set with variable amounts of gold against a particular player. Other players could choose to boost the bounty against a particular player with add gold. A player could "buy out" their own bounty.

A player with a set bounty could be anywhere in Cyrodill, and anytime an action was taken (capture, kill, chevos), the map would get an icon featuring their last known location... or maybe the icon would track with them for a time (3 minutes?), then leave a "last known". Anyone accepting a bounty would appear on a list of hunters the target player could see, with the same tracking mechanism for hunters. Maybe hunters would have to buy into the bounty for gold... If the hunter could kill the hunters, he pot could be claimed.

GTAO has a mechanism where after "x" amount of time, is the targeted player is able to evade the kill, then the pot goes to him/her. I'd like to see as long as a percentage of the pot is added BEFORE expiration, then the clock could be extended. Logging out, or leaving cyrodill could either cancel the "contract", or simply halt the clock.

Somebody just killed you in PVP and you want revenge? Who ya gonna call?

Adult hide, seek, and kill for fun and profit!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2116374/#Comment_2116374

I think SWG had something similar to “last known location” I’m not certain, because only the Bounty Hunter class could take the contracts, and I never fully leveled on. The game had a one character limit which later opened up to 1/server. However the contract was fillable anywhere making a great counter to trolls and a whole mother level of PvP complexity to those at excelled at it. Because the Target had no idea PvP was about to happen until the Bounty Hunter made the opening move. Imagine doing your writs, but still needing to stay buffed up.

Ectheliontnacil · March 2018

Etaniel wrote: »

Ill just leave this here :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNH6kVKeAfE

Mostly the second part of the video

And that had been an issue for a while, nothing's gonna change

xD

Ye i know that video, so good

.

And even though zeni hasn't taken action as of yet to address this problem, maybe if we bug them long enough, they will.

SugaComa · March 2018

Just shrink the god damn map so it's smaller ... Problem is it takes on average 4 to 6 minutes to get from one keep to the next via horse that's under attack.

A good group can turn a keep in 3 to 4 minutes

Meaning the fights become pointless ...

You should not be able to take a keep faster than the travel time from the next nearest keep...

Its PvP ... But in all honesty it's played more like chess with focus on quick keep takes before you get any actual PvP ... And that's dull... Hell it iswhy every so often I enjoy a good bridge fight

JamilaRaj · March 2018

SugaComa wrote: »

Just shrink the god damn map so it's smaller ... Problem is it takes on average 4 to 6 minutes to get from one keep to the next via horse that's under attack.

It is less than 2 minutes.

SugaComa wrote: »

A good group can turn a keep in 3 to 4 minutes

Meaning the fights become pointless ...

You should not be able to take a keep faster than the travel time from the next nearest keep...

Keeps should be harder to capture to begin with.

Also, you should not be able to travel to keeps in zero time. That compels attacking party to seek out PvDoor, because if it gets spotted in proximity of a keep, all enemy players who are not attacking themselves can accrete at one place instantly, without any effort and wipe out attackers, aided by unlimited respawns.

SugaComa wrote: »

Its PvP ... But in all honesty it's played more like chess with focus on quick keep takes before you get any actual PvP ... And that's dull... Hell it iswhy every so often I enjoy a good bridge fight

Beardimus · March 2018

I agree its a beaut of a zone. Reason to go all over be cool. Timed events etc etc.

This will come.in the PvP DLC / Chapter....

Etaniel · March 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

I agree its a beaut of a zone. Reason to go all over be cool. Timed events etc etc.

This will come.in the PvP DLC / Chapter....

don't want to have to wait till june 2019 though

DivineFirstYOLO · March 2018

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

In my opinion there is a very simple solution to this problem. Place new flags evenly across the zone, all of them easily flipped and offering large offensive ticks (3k ap), massively increase the Cropsford, Vlastarus and Bruma ticks and reduce the keep and outpost ticks. This will draw out zergs and spread them evenly across the map, since keep capture is no longer as rewarding as fighting out in the open (taking keeps takes much longer than taking flags and will no longer yield as many ap as it used to). With any luck it will also increase performance .

I agree that ZOS should reduce the ticks for keeps and outposts, but i fear people will abuse the easy ticks in Crops, Vlast, Bruma and new places by just standing there and flipping it back and forth.

Ectheliontnacil · March 2018

@DivineFirstYOLO

Add a cooldown

keto3000 · August 2018

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

@DivineFirstYOLO

Add a cooldown

...and, possibly "caravan quests." we might see more open world large scale attacks/battles as well. if, besides scrolls, there were "precious cargoes, .eg. resources, mats, gear, 'spoils of war"etc which could be gathered and brought back to a designated safe area/keep so players can access it and divide it up.

There is definitely some awesome terrain outside of the keep vicinities that would be great fun for small scale and large scale pvp (including the use of siege.)

Zodiac_ · August 2018

Some of the ideas herein and in any other relevant topic are very interesting and would give a refreshing feeling to cyro BUT i am afraid we wont ever see them applied

Cyro suffers mainly from three reasons

- poor server performance which lead to population caps
- broken mechanics and sets with people abusing them (legally and illegally)
- ZOS persisting on pleasing the vast majority of players in a total incorrect way (in my opinion). Damage and healing is boosted as never before and most important in ways that favour quantity. This leads people to prefer joining the largest group they can find which simply amplify the previous two points.

So, unfortunately and since this situation is on-going for years now no matter how good or bad an idea/discussion can be about cyro and even if we see it applied (by a miracle) it wont really matter and you will end up in the same situation you described in the OP because the real issues have never so far and i am afraid never will be addressed....

frozywozy · August 2018