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[VID / Guide] Animation Cancelling (Finger Filming) / Keyboard Layout

  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Voxicity wrote: »
    So these are the kind of people I'm fighting against in Cyrodiil

    I feel so much better about myself now, thank you!

    You’re welcome?? :|

    I’m not quite sure how to take that lol
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • Sergykid
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    i might add that light attack is canceled by the ability, u don't have to block between the ability and the light attack, you only briefly stop ur stam regen.

    -PC EU-
  • thedude33
    thedude33
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    Excellent video... and no, we aren't judging you !

    This is a better solution than what I was working on ...having a 3rd arm implanted.
    1v1 Win/Loss Record in PvP.
    1 Wins - 392 Losses (guy was AFK)

  • magictucktuck
    magictucktuck
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    Bevik wrote: »
    Thanks. I was thinking about buying an MMO mouse anyway but this adds 1 more reason. Any suggestions for an MMO mouse?

    I use razor naga chroma and i love it.
    PC-NA

    Necromancer

    Flawless Conqueror

    https://www.magictucktuck.com for my builds and guides!
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Sergykid wrote: »
    i might add that light attack is canceled by the ability, u don't have to block between the ability and the light attack, you only briefly stop ur stam regen.

    Blocking speeds up the rate at which some skills or abilities will hit the target. It is most noticeable with instant-cast ranged skills such as force pulse and breath of life. Furthermore, blocking will do a good job of disguising the animation of the ability you’re using, which can have a lot of value in a PvP situation.

    I know you disagree with that first part. We’ve had this conversation before. I’d strongly recommend that the viewers test it out for themselves. The difference a block makes is most noticeable with the warden spore heal.
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • thedude33
    thedude33
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    Just ordered the mouse. This is the start of my potato makeover.

    I've made some mistakes in the past. I'm willing to make up for that. I want to be good!

    I like your idea of the dodge button, but think I am going to switch it to the space bar. A little more ergonomically correct.
    1v1 Win/Loss Record in PvP.
    1 Wins - 392 Losses (guy was AFK)

  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    Nice vid.

    I'd like to add, though that it is definitely possible in PVP without an mmo mouse. - you just need to make a couple of sacrifices with what you can do.

    In my case, I cannot dodge right - nor use the potions addon you have - but everything else is ok - I just have a simple 5-button mouse (usual 3 on top + 2 thumb-buttons).

    I have weapon-swap bound to one thumb-button, the other is bound to skill 5 (the one furthest from WSAD) - which I usually use for mobility/gap-closers

    I rebound abilities 1 and 2 to E and R - and ulti to T - so most of my abilities are in a little square, accessed by my index finger (3,4,E,R - with E,R being the most commonly used)

    Dodge I bound to 'F' (which is why I can't dodge right - but never found it to be a problem, tbh.

    But with the bar layouts I have, most of my cancelling is swap-cancelling - so its left-click, ability(with left index finger), swap (mouse-thumb). I don't have any problems timing that between 2 hands - did take a bit of practice to get it at first though.
    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    thedude33 wrote: »
    Just ordered the mouse. This is the start of my potato makeover.

    I've made some mistakes in the past. I'm willing to make up for that. I want to be good!

    I like your idea of the dodge button, but think I am going to switch it to the space bar. A little more ergonomically correct.

    I actually tried that first before using alt, but my brain just couldn’t make the adjustment. I think it’s becahse Space bar is jump in pretty much every video game I’ve ever played.. it’s just too ingrained in me.

    I set alt to jump but when I needed to jump over obstacles in cyrodil I kept pressing space and dodge rolling onto it. One time I dodgerolled right off a cliff (instead of jumping onto a ledge) and I was so frustrated that I swapped the buttons back to what I use now lol
    Edited by Thogard on March 20, 2018 3:36PM
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    Nice vid.

    I'd like to add, though that it is definitely possible in PVP without an mmo mouse. - you just need to make a couple of sacrifices with what you can do.

    In my case, I cannot dodge right - nor use the potions addon you have - but everything else is ok - I just have a simple 5-button mouse (usual 3 on top + 2 thumb-buttons).

    I have weapon-swap bound to one thumb-button, the other is bound to skill 5 (the one furthest from WSAD) - which I usually use for mobility/gap-closers

    I rebound abilities 1 and 2 to E and R - and ulti to T - so most of my abilities are in a little square, accessed by my index finger (3,4,E,R - with E,R being the most commonly used)

    Dodge I bound to 'F' (which is why I can't dodge right - but never found it to be a problem, tbh.

    But with the bar layouts I have, most of my cancelling is swap-cancelling - so its left-click, ability(with left index finger), swap (mouse-thumb). I don't have any problems timing that between 2 hands - did take a bit of practice to get it at first though.
    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Biro123 wrote: »
    Nice vid.

    I'd like to add, though that it is definitely possible in PVP without an mmo mouse. - you just need to make a couple of sacrifices with what you can do.

    In my case, I cannot dodge right - nor use the potions addon you have - but everything else is ok - I just have a simple 5-button mouse (usual 3 on top + 2 thumb-buttons).

    I have weapon-swap bound to one thumb-button, the other is bound to skill 5 (the one furthest from WSAD) - which I usually use for mobility/gap-closers

    I rebound abilities 1 and 2 to E and R - and ulti to T - so most of my abilities are in a little square, accessed by my index finger (3,4,E,R - with E,R being the most commonly used)

    Dodge I bound to 'F' (which is why I can't dodge right - but never found it to be a problem, tbh.

    But with the bar layouts I have, most of my cancelling is swap-cancelling - so its left-click, ability(with left index finger), swap (mouse-thumb). I don't have any problems timing that between 2 hands - did take a bit of practice to get it at first though.

    THE BIGGEST SETBACK I HAVE WITH MY SETUP IS THAT BECAUSE CAPSLOCK IS MY BARSWAP KEY I OFTENTIMES END UP TYPING IN ALL CAPS. ITS ANNOYING BUT IVE LEARNED TO WATCH FOR IT... MOST OF THE TIME.
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • rfennell_ESO
    rfennell_ESO
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    It's a good video and good input for players.

    One of the keys to mobility in gaming has always been separating actions by hand. You want to move with one hand and attack and mouselook with the other.

    There are lots of ways to achieve this, but hand separation is the primary thing to achieve.

    For those of us that aren't wasd users (I've never used wasd for anything in any game ever) You can just do your movement and pertinent hotkey setup on the right side of the keyboard. Arrow keys are movement with rctrl rshift \ backspace Insert->pagedown block and the entire numpad to play with. If you are like me and wear XXL gloves, wasd isn't feasible (and smaller handed people likely wouldn't reasonably be able to use the right side of keyboard efficiently).

    The point to mention is that Dodge roll, Interrupt and break free can all be bound separately and do not need to be done on the mouse.
  • NyassaV
    NyassaV
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    Damn, this is good. Proud of you mah boi <3
    Flawless Conqueror ~ Alliance Warlord
    She/Her ~ PC/NA
    I record things for fun and for info
    https://youtube.com/channel/UC0WuLVnsW177WKkKcvNuuYA
  • Bevik
    Bevik
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    Damn you guys not helping me much with the choosing. :# Not sure about the circular buttons. I don't really want to spend on a mouse and realize it's a crap. :'(

    @Thogard Did you try different MMO/MOBA mice before getting the Razer?

    Edited by Bevik on March 20, 2018 7:04PM
  • Loves_guars
    Loves_guars
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    Thanks for the vid! Seems like it's basically what I do but with the keyboard instead of that gaming mouse, I can see why in pvp it would be an advantage for moving around.

    My question is about block. If you are taking damage and you use block to cancel, doesn't that consume stamina? And wouldn't that be awful for a stamina build?

  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Thanks for the vid! Seems like it's basically what I do but with the keyboard instead of that gaming mouse, I can see why in pvp it would be an advantage for moving around.

    My question is about block. If you are taking damage and you use block to cancel, doesn't that consume stamina? And wouldn't that be awful for a stamina build?
    Good question!

    When it comes to block, it’s important to understand how the cost works. Block cost is charged only when you block while taking damage, and it is charged every .25s. If you hold down block for a full second while taking damage you will be charged four times.

    I’m not holding down block - I’m tapping it so that the block animation overwrites my skill’s animation. Because I’m holding it down for less than .25s, the worst case scenario is that I get charged for only one tic, which is a fourth of the cost of holding block for a full second. And that only happens if I manage to block some damage, which would be pretty unlikely given how short the block is active for. Besides, if I do manage to block some damage, great! Tapping block for a split second costs very little, but if I get lucky and prevent some damage then it would be well worth the cost.

    Tapping block strategicallly to mitigate known damage is something most good mag and Stam players know how to do. Dizzy swing is probably the easiest one to practice on - just tap block right before it hits and let go right afterwards. The low cost definitely is worth the damage reduction... as long as you don’t hold it down ;)

    I might make a video on that next, tap blocking DD attacks is a pretty crucial PvP skill.
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Bevik wrote: »
    Damn you guys not helping me much with the choosing. :# Not sure about the circular buttons. I don't really want to spend on a mouse and realize it's a crap. :'(

    @Thogard Did you try different MMO/MOBA mice before getting the Razer?

    The colors of the lights change. You can set it to whatever you want. Mine changes colors based on the mouse sensitivity but you can also just set whichever color you want.

    I didn’t try any other mice because this one came so highly recommended. All the PvPers I looked up to at the time (I was a lot worse before I got this) recommended this one.
    Edited by Thogard on March 20, 2018 7:11PM
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • Faunter
    Faunter
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    That video made me take a look through your channel, and boy am I glad I did, because I found this absolute gem. :joy:
  • Bevik
    Bevik
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    I think I found everyone is looking for:

    Razer Naga Trinity
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Here’s a duel vid of a fight with another stamden that runs a pretty similar setup. I wanted to show this because I feel very confident that my opponent in this fight still uses 1-5 or a keyboard for his skills. I can tell because he can’t seem to hit me while I’m strafing around him. Meanwhile, I am constantly strafing left and right and have no problem at all using skills



    Here’s another vid of me in some small scale. You can notice from this vid how constantly I’m moving. Using a gaming mouse so that I never take my hands off of WASD is crucial for having the kind of mobility you need to be one step ahead of your opponents and this vid showcases the constant movement that is 100% critical to land synchronized DB bursts, even in my spin2win zerg slaughtering loadout:


    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Faunter wrote: »
    That video made me take a look through your channel, and boy am I glad I did, because I found this absolute gem. :joy:

    Those two deserve their own sitcom lol
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • Irylia
    Irylia
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    Say hello to my little friend

    Logitech mouse from target. Only $8.99 and easily replaceable.

    For anyone interested in CE it comes included with the packaging.
    Edited by Irylia on March 20, 2018 7:33PM
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Irylia wrote: »
    Say hello to my little friend

    Logitech mouse from target. Only $8.99 and easily replaceable.

    For anyone interested in CE it comes included with the packaging.

    NOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo!!!!

    Say it isn’t so.

    You’re shattering my world view.
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • Sixty5
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    That break free / bash thing on middle mouse is something that I'd never thought of.

    Doing that ASAP, should be a massive help whenthe game decides to eat my inputs.

    The rest of my keybinds I'd say I am pretty good with, for instance I prefer dodge on E and Ult on R, just for proximity, and those are the bindings I have used for like the past 4 years on pretty much every game.
    Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.

    I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
    Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Sixty5 wrote: »
    That break free / bash thing on middle mouse is something that I'd never thought of.

    Doing that ASAP, should be a massive help whenthe game decides to eat my inputs.

    The rest of my keybinds I'd say I am pretty good with, for instance I prefer dodge on E and Ult on R, just for proximity, and those are the bindings I have used for like the past 4 years on pretty much every game.

    I think I’m actually going to change my ult to “r” as well.

    Good stuff.
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • Sixty5
    Sixty5
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    Thogard wrote: »
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    That break free / bash thing on middle mouse is something that I'd never thought of.

    Doing that ASAP, should be a massive help whenthe game decides to eat my inputs.

    The rest of my keybinds I'd say I am pretty good with, for instance I prefer dodge on E and Ult on R, just for proximity, and those are the bindings I have used for like the past 4 years on pretty much every game.

    I think I’m actually going to change my ult to “r” as well.

    Good stuff.

    Yeah, the only other big difference is that I have my pots on the macro keys on the side of my keyboard, because I am a filthy cheater.
    Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.

    I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
    Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds
  • firedrgn
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    Man i just ordered the orbweweaver last night. Its left hand hopfully that will work.
  • Violynne
    Violynne
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    Thogard wrote: »
    THE BIGGEST SETBACK I HAVE WITH MY SETUP IS THAT BECAUSE CAPSLOCK IS MY BARSWAP KEY I OFTENTIMES END UP TYPING IN ALL CAPS. ITS ANNOYING BUT IVE LEARNED TO WATCH FOR IT... MOST OF THE TIME.
    We are sorely at a disadvantage without a LMFAO option.

    Instead, you get an Awesome.

    Accursed internet making me laugh.


  • firedrgn
    firedrgn
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    Bevik wrote: »
    Was actually thinking of a Logitech, Razer or Corsair. But 17 buttons on a Corsair might be a bit too much.

    I don't do top tier PvP nor PvE but a good mouse always an advantage.

    Ya i dont recommend the corsair. Way too many buttons too close together.
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Sixty5 wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    That break free / bash thing on middle mouse is something that I'd never thought of.

    Doing that ASAP, should be a massive help whenthe game decides to eat my inputs.

    The rest of my keybinds I'd say I am pretty good with, for instance I prefer dodge on E and Ult on R, just for proximity, and those are the bindings I have used for like the past 4 years on pretty much every game.

    I think I’m actually going to change my ult to “r” as well.

    Good stuff.

    Yeah, the only other big difference is that I have my pots on the macro keys on the side of my keyboard, because I am a filthy cheater.

    If I had room for a bigger keyboard on my desk’s keyboard tray, I might do the same thing. But tbh I don’t really need it. I still have plenty of buttons I could remap that aren’t combat related - E and D for instance.

    But my number one priority was on making sure I can always use all of my important PvP actions without having to move my hand. Any two actions that prohibit each other are on the same finger... for instance you can’t dodgeroll while jumping and you can’t jump while dodgerolling, so both of them I hit with my thumb. In other words, I am never going to be mid jump and thinking “damn I wish my finger was able to dodgeroll right now but it can’t because it’s on the jump button”

    You can only use one skill a second, so all my skills are on my mouse thumb buttons.

    Same thing goes for sprinting and barswap, which i hit with my pinky. My index middle and ring finger never have to leave WASD.

    Having it set up like that means I’m never wishing I had more fingers ;)
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    As to the MMO mouse debate, you certainly dont need one to AC in this game. Some of the best players I know dont use them. It's just a preference for button layout, and there are a lot of ways you can set things up. I remember @SirAndy one time describing how he setup his buttons and it was mind boggling to say the least.

    Now that said, I think MMO mice are the best thing since sliced bread, so there you are. Putting all my skills at my right thumb was the best thing I ever did for my DPS. I weave with my right hand (thumb and index finger), and I usually AC with a combo of my thumbs, as my weapon swap is on my left thumb and my dodge roll is on my right thumb with the skills. Left thumb weapon swap is a result of years of counter-strike, and they way I had things setup at that time.
    Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on March 20, 2018 8:30PM
    Ebonheart Pact - PC/NA - 2,000+ CP

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