So you often you hear about 3 or 4 dps runs. So the question is healer effective in their role come end game? Is it worth losing a dps member?
Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »So you often you hear about 3 or 4 dps runs. So the question is healer effective in their role come end game? Is it worth losing a dps member?
There useful for learning a new 4 man dungeon but that's it no 4 man needs a healer. If your running with lfg folks then yeah they prolly need a healer but 4man dungeon are just way smoother with 3 dps.
Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »So you often you hear about 3 or 4 dps runs. So the question is healer effective in their role come end game? Is it worth losing a dps member?
There useful for learning a new 4 man dungeon but that's it no 4 man needs a healer. If your running with lfg folks then yeah they prolly need a healer but 4man dungeon are just way smoother with 3 dps.
Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »@Tasear and some ppl run 1 healer now in vaa hm for score runs as well.
Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »@Tasear and some ppl run 1 healer now in vaa hm for score runs as well.
Yes this issue trying raise. Seems like dps is outclassing need for tank or healer in gameplay. There's trials where intent in desig was 2 tanks, but we are lucky have 1 healer and tank now.
Maybe it's time relook at buffs and debuffs they give?
Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »@Tasear if you wanted to make healers necessary I'd say the only way would be to upscale all incoming damage. The only issue with this tho is that this game already has a steep learning curve already and that would make it that much harder.
Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »@Tasear and some ppl run 1 healer now in vaa hm for score runs as well.
Is there enjoy buffs for healers to be worth their spot?
They are usefull for trials and DLC dungeons
Others , depends on which ones
Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »@Tasear if you wanted to make healers necessary I'd say the only way would be to upscale all incoming damage. The only issue with this tho is that this game already has a steep learning curve already and that would make it that much harder.
It's just a discussion for future. I see become more and more of a thing. It's issue with the divine Trinity being unbalanced.
Maybe we need more debuffs. More dots in design. But I do think it should be looked at.
When "stack and burn" is a valid tactic, u'll prolly need atleast one healer.
If "dodge or die" is the base mechanic, u wont need a dedicated healer.
If u have dps-checks (as in minimum grp dps so mechanics dont happen) above 60k (4 players), bringing tank and healer is a bad idea.
Additionally as healers and dds stack nearly the same stats, 'everyone' can do good enough heals with energy orb or vigor.
To really need a dedicated healer, u'd need mechanics that do unavoidable dps, which is higher than the tanks healthregen + mDDs orb + sDDs vigor + classes base lifesteal ((surge + funnel + sweeps + lotus + embers)/5) and so on, but does not oneshot. I dont think thats actually possible.
Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »When "stack and burn" is a valid tactic, u'll prolly need atleast one healer.
If "dodge or die" is the base mechanic, u wont need a dedicated healer.
If u have dps-checks (as in minimum grp dps so mechanics dont happen) above 60k (4 players), bringing tank and healer is a bad idea.
Additionally as healers and dds stack nearly the same stats, 'everyone' can do good enough heals with energy orb or vigor.
To really need a dedicated healer, u'd need mechanics that do unavoidable dps, which is higher than the tanks healthregen + mDDs orb + sDDs vigor + classes base lifesteal ((surge + funnel + sweeps + lotus + embers)/5) and so on, but does not oneshot. I dont think thats actually possible.
This^^
Mannix1958 wrote: »Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »When "stack and burn" is a valid tactic, u'll prolly need atleast one healer.
If "dodge or die" is the base mechanic, u wont need a dedicated healer.
If u have dps-checks (as in minimum grp dps so mechanics dont happen) above 60k (4 players), bringing tank and healer is a bad idea.
Additionally as healers and dds stack nearly the same stats, 'everyone' can do good enough heals with energy orb or vigor.
To really need a dedicated healer, u'd need mechanics that do unavoidable dps, which is higher than the tanks healthregen + mDDs orb + sDDs vigor + classes base lifesteal ((surge + funnel + sweeps + lotus + embers)/5) and so on, but does not oneshot. I dont think thats actually possible.
This^^
So they need to lower DPS then...a major combat change again? The game should not make tanks and healers nearly useless should it?
Mannix1958 wrote: »Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »When "stack and burn" is a valid tactic, u'll prolly need atleast one healer.
If "dodge or die" is the base mechanic, u wont need a dedicated healer.
If u have dps-checks (as in minimum grp dps so mechanics dont happen) above 60k (4 players), bringing tank and healer is a bad idea.
Additionally as healers and dds stack nearly the same stats, 'everyone' can do good enough heals with energy orb or vigor.
To really need a dedicated healer, u'd need mechanics that do unavoidable dps, which is higher than the tanks healthregen + mDDs orb + sDDs vigor + classes base lifesteal ((surge + funnel + sweeps + lotus + embers)/5) and so on, but does not oneshot. I dont think thats actually possible.
This^^
So they need to lower DPS then...a major combat change again? The game should not make tanks and healers nearly useless should it?
Mannix1958 wrote: »Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »When "stack and burn" is a valid tactic, u'll prolly need atleast one healer.
If "dodge or die" is the base mechanic, u wont need a dedicated healer.
If u have dps-checks (as in minimum grp dps so mechanics dont happen) above 60k (4 players), bringing tank and healer is a bad idea.
Additionally as healers and dds stack nearly the same stats, 'everyone' can do good enough heals with energy orb or vigor.
To really need a dedicated healer, u'd need mechanics that do unavoidable dps, which is higher than the tanks healthregen + mDDs orb + sDDs vigor + classes base lifesteal ((surge + funnel + sweeps + lotus + embers)/5) and so on, but does not oneshot. I dont think thats actually possible.
This^^
So they need to lower DPS then...a major combat change again? The game should not make tanks and healers nearly useless should it?
i wouldn't say its making them useless, they still have their use in other content
Mannix1958 wrote: »Mannix1958 wrote: »Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »When "stack and burn" is a valid tactic, u'll prolly need atleast one healer.
If "dodge or die" is the base mechanic, u wont need a dedicated healer.
If u have dps-checks (as in minimum grp dps so mechanics dont happen) above 60k (4 players), bringing tank and healer is a bad idea.
Additionally as healers and dds stack nearly the same stats, 'everyone' can do good enough heals with energy orb or vigor.
To really need a dedicated healer, u'd need mechanics that do unavoidable dps, which is higher than the tanks healthregen + mDDs orb + sDDs vigor + classes base lifesteal ((surge + funnel + sweeps + lotus + embers)/5) and so on, but does not oneshot. I dont think thats actually possible.
This^^
So they need to lower DPS then...a major combat change again? The game should not make tanks and healers nearly useless should it?
i wouldn't say its making them useless, they still have their use in other content
But it seems to be shrinking...its often stated 3 or 4 DPS and the group will be able to do 90-95% of group content not counting trials.
Mannix1958 wrote: »Mannix1958 wrote: »Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »When "stack and burn" is a valid tactic, u'll prolly need atleast one healer.
If "dodge or die" is the base mechanic, u wont need a dedicated healer.
If u have dps-checks (as in minimum grp dps so mechanics dont happen) above 60k (4 players), bringing tank and healer is a bad idea.
Additionally as healers and dds stack nearly the same stats, 'everyone' can do good enough heals with energy orb or vigor.
To really need a dedicated healer, u'd need mechanics that do unavoidable dps, which is higher than the tanks healthregen + mDDs orb + sDDs vigor + classes base lifesteal ((surge + funnel + sweeps + lotus + embers)/5) and so on, but does not oneshot. I dont think thats actually possible.
This^^
So they need to lower DPS then...a major combat change again? The game should not make tanks and healers nearly useless should it?
i wouldn't say its making them useless, they still have their use in other content
But it seems to be shrinking...its often stated 3 or 4 DPS and the group will be able to do 90-95% of group content not counting trials.
NoMoreChillies wrote: »maybe the heals are too strong.
I get DPS is needed but when those same players can pump out enough healing to carry through then healing itself need to be toned down.
Make healer needed by building towards it with gear and CP. Remove any damage + heal skills and replace with one (heal) or the other (damage) never both. Make heals multiply from health, not magic. Then you have tank + healer build health, and DPS build stam/mag.
Then tanks will suffer. So remove armor caps and let tanks stack resistance just like dps can stack damage.
Finally stop making 1 shot mechanics. It just cheapens the game and healers feel useless when it happens.
I main a NB healer and sometimes, I feel Funnel Health and Refreshing Path are enough to keep people alive for 4 man content. I take Sap Essence too when it's an easy dungeon.