Should Trials be available in the Group Finder?

Knowledge

In many modern MMORPGs such as Final Fantasy XIV you can participate in the normal versions of raids via a party finder/duty finder/group finder. I think it would be beneficial to implement such a feature for the masses in Elder Scrolls Online. This will enable a larger percentage of people to enjoy the content available to them without the hassle of hunting down a PUG or trying to argue for a spot in a raid group despite having low CP.

What do you think?

Nestor

I am on the fence.

In two of my Social Guilds we run Trial events on Normal as if we were doing Vet. Reason, most normal trials are just stack and burn, so you don't really need the mechanics. Come Vet, if you don't adhere to the mechanics, it's party wipe, not just you. Even on the normal trials that have mechanics that you need to pay attention to, it's more lip service than anything else. Doing this has allowed us to put groups through Vet Trials far faster than most other methods, and we don't have to carry anyone because people learned the right way from the beginning.

So, if people "learned" the trials from a random event like this, they would probably not learn the mechanics that are so important in Vet modes.

On the other hand, it could help with forming groups for trials as herding 12 randoms into a trial is not always easy either.

Nidro

Have u ever done Sanctum Ophidia on Vet with randoms?
lol

Glockcoma725

At least throw normal trials on the finder. Best way for us to learn mechanics is to rinse and repeat

ssorgatem

Yes, please.

At least for normal...

VaranisArano

On the one hand, its be a nice alternatice to spamming Craglorn zone chat.

On the other hand, don't we have enough groupfinder complaint threads already for normal and veteran dungeons?

Until ZOS gives some sort of minimum requirements for roles in vet dungeons and trials, I dont think that adding trials to groupfinder is going to work out all that well.

Shanjijri

Not for veteran.

Asardes

Seeing so many: "I went in a [really easy base game dungeon] and got rekt" topics on the forum, I can just imagine the dorsal pain that will cause to the starchy plant tuber players lurking in the queue. I think it was the reason they got rid of trials from group finder. They had them at some point but dropped them pretty fast.

VaranisArano

Wanna bet Low CP people will just get kicked anyway? Theyre the first people to get kicked in Vet dungeons, why would groupfinder trials be any different?

Jade1986

Why not, worked pretty well in SWTOR, dont see why it shouldnt here. A lot o the times it was used to fill in a spot that the group could not get someone for.

Chi110ut

Certainly normal trials, this includes Dragon Star Arena should be on the Activity Finder. Not sure on Veteran maybe with a CP requirement.

supaskrub

Not for veteran and i dare say even normal trials such as HoF or MoL would become an issue just like dlc dungeons have become.

DeadlyRecluse

It would be worth throwing on there for a week or two and getting feedback.

IMO, it probably wouldn't work out well. But it might! And if it did, that would be cool!

Danksta

Only for Maelstrom Arena.

Vapirko

Normal only I think.

Hurtfan

Yes, at least have the option, even Vet. You don't have to queue on vet if you don't want to deal with a PUG.

AzraelKrieg

Oh. This topic again. You want to pug HOF go right ahead.

srfrogg23

Normal, sure. Vet, not sure about that.

tinythinker

Knowledge wrote: »

In many modern MMORPGs such as Final Fantasy XIV you can participate in the normal versions of raids via a party finder/duty finder/group finder. I think it would be beneficial to implement such a feature for the masses in Elder Scrolls Online. This will enable a larger percentage of people to enjoy the content available to them without the hassle of hunting down a PUG or trying to argue for a spot in a raid group despite having low CP.

What do you think?

I've suggested this before (may find link and edit it in later). To follow the FFXIV model a bit, you would have normal versions unlocked with a particular quest completion or reaching a minimum CP level. So basically go to the NPC who first reveals the place/gives you the basic completion quest and hit CP ??? for that trial.

In order to qualify for the vet version of a particular trial, you would unlock the option in group finder by beating it once. So if you had beaten Vet Hel Ra, it would be something you could queue for. Or, you could make beating it with the extra hard mode the requirement to queue for vet runs in a particular trial.

I also think instanced boss fights would be fun (click here to see what I'm thinking of or see the spoiler below).

Those newer to the game may have heard about how some quest bosses like Balreth and Doshia and Doppleganger Lyris used to be hardcore. Maybe you like some dungeons and trials mostly because of one boss, the highlight of the run.

Sooo...

Consider what it would be like to have these NPCs in a new type of instance, buffed up with some new abilities and mechanics and maybe some adds, that you can queue into. Just grab a few friends and jump in and there is your big bad boss ready to smash you into paste.

The dungeon/trials devs could have soooo much fun thinking up ways to revamp the bosses, similar to the buffing of world bosses (hey, maybe some of those could make an appearance). We would get new ways to experience old challenges and of course achievements and other rewards. Toss in some kind of insanity mode for those who need that kind of thing. Each boss could even get different version of itself over time so that you wouldn't go "***-hum that one again", perhaps even some random elements to it that combine to make different types of challenges.

The devs could start off with some limited number, and players could speculate over which ones are going to be added next.

The goal isn't to replace dungeons and trials, but to have a quick run challenge for PvE like a "battlegrounds". And to maximize use of existing assets to allow more creative experimentation from the devs to help better revamp old content and make new content. The current dungeon/trial gear drops and such still come from doing that longer content. Plus, most of us have our favorite fun quest bosses, mini-bosses, dungeon bosses, etc. and not all are repeatable unless you roll a new toon. Getting them buffed with new, expanded, or altered abilities and surrounding mechanics, especially with some randomized elements, also gives us more to do that isn't as routine. To iterate on this idea, there could even be a chance for players who wished to do a string of these bosses to earn challenge achievements.

I hate to give examples of what this might look like, because your imagination is better than what I can write and I don't want to limit the possibilities by giving something to "represent" those possibilities, so please take this as a the lowest level of quality possible for my idea. Imagine Balreth fighting like you imagine he would versus the Covenant invaders, with a huge AoE rain of fire that is forcing your healer to rapid burn their magicka to keep you alive. The DPS have to set sigils or crystals or totems up to summon the water rain magic to stun Balreth and increase the damage he takes (for the hard mode the rain to make him vulnerable to any damage). The scamps in the fight come to steal the totems which starts the fire rain again until the scamps are caught, killed, and the totems set up again but the scamps are fast and teleport. But Balreth summons skellies that go after whoever has the totems and their attacks interrupt the set-up process.

So that is a partial example of an enhanced Balreth fight, and you can add randomized elements to it like having Balreth use ice magic instead of fire to snare and immobilize players, or perhaps poison/disease damage to keep DoTS on players and make healing a bigger pain, etc. The sequence of certain attacks and phases could be changed. You could replace the scamps with trolls. These are, again, not the best of the best ideas, just example of how wide open the variations can be. To flesh out the ice version of Balreth a little, during his room-wide AoE phase everyone is snared (think of the quest in the rift where you had to light fires to stay alive) and sometimes frozen by a whirlwind (think of the start of Aetherian Archive) while the totems are set up. These activates a localized fire rain over Balreth to stun him and have him take more damage/be vulnerable. But now the whole floor is slick ice, and moving your character causes them to slide. So you have to chase then sprinting/teleporting scamps this way, with big AoEs dropping from the sky that freeze you in place (lucky and skilled players can try to pair these with the fast slide effect to get someplace then put on the brakes). Once you get the totems back the continual snare/AoE damage phase starts again to slow you down trying to get the totems into place.

The plot and lore for this could be Vaermina, with these enhanced versions and weirdly modified versions of boss fights being terrors that she manifests from/within her nightmare realm of Quagmire. Some locus or intersection with her realm has been found in Tamriel, though maybe NPCs don't know that's what it is, they only know the rumors of the insane horrors found in that haunted place...

starkerealm

The image of randos in a pug trying to clear The Warrior in HRC cracks me up. Yeah, no, this is a terrible idea, but I completely applaud it.

redspecter23

Normal versions for sure. Vet would be useful for amusement only though.

Asardes

Danksta wrote: »

Only for Maelstrom Arena.

Would make it reset instantly, rather than wait 5-10 minutes outside, so it would be quite useful if doing farm runs or training lowbies to 50. Because of the reset timer I actually figured out to do that in tandem, since it didn't waste XP scroll up time: I finished with char 1, logged char 2, started and repeated that until both were 50.

Anotherone773

Yes, they should be available in group finder. I dont understand why people are against this??? If it bothers you to PUG, dont PUG. It is a simple solution. But for some reason people in this game, that do end game content and even vet dungeons, think they are special and no one should be allowed to do it unless THEIR requirements are met. Talk about an elitist attitude and a superiority complex.

If a bunch of newbs want to wipe their way through a trial, who cares? It doesnt affect anyones game play but the people in the trial. Personally i have way more fun with newbies and casuals in group content than i ever have with elites and vets. Its like going to a college spring break party compared to going to an office party with accountants, lawyers, and doctors.

Juju_beans

And you think dungeons are bad with fake tanks and healers then just wait for them to show up in trials.

Ilithyania

normals sure

Mister_DMC

Normal yes, vet no.

TheMystid

Many PvE players are obsessed by "doing it perfectly" and will disagree. But if we had such a tool, they could just simply ignore it and keep using guilds.

On the other hand, casual PvE players or PvPer interested in items will definetly benefit from a Trial finder.

Too bad ZOS doesnt have the skills to make it work.

kylewwefan

Heck yes. With vote to kick need only 7 for majority vote. And 1 hour cooldown. And Group Finder buffs.

Both Normal and Vet.

Glockcoma725

Juju_beans wrote: »

And you think dungeons are bad with fake tanks and healers then just wait for them to show up in trials.

But with so many more slots for DPS's, do you really think this would be an issue there?

Asardes

TheMystid wrote: »

Many PvE players are obsessed by "doing it perfectly" and will disagree. But if we had such a tool, they could just simply ignore it and keep using guilds.

Nope, they are not obsessed with that. Rather they are "obsessed" with not:
- wiping endlessly at Valariel because people don't kill adds
- wiping endlessly at Yokeda Kai because nobody interrupts the flame channels (you can actually wipe and skip this)
- wiping endlessly at the Manticora because people eat the popcorn and fall in holes when they aren't supposed to
- wiping endlessly at Ozara because the positioning is wrong, nobody unpins
etc.
Yep, that even happens on normal mode with really bad groups

Add to that the following concerns:
- people queuing as fake tank and being rekt by every boss in those trial because they have 15K health and medium armor
- people queuing as fake healer and not even being able to heal themselves
- even more people queuing as DD and not even pulling 10K

And there are plenty of normal trial PuGs in zone chats anyway. And when you manually group with someone you can actually see how much health they have, you can ask them to link achievements, you can see their CP etc. so I don't see the point in putting those in group finder.

Kwarla

I wish you could get them on finder cause my current guild dont help me with nothink. I need to do trials and cant do them alone lol