Frost Magic is a genuine disappointment in ESO atm...

VaranisArano

Lynx7386 wrote: »

FR0STDEE wrote: »

100% agree. There are so many possibilities they could have chosen to make a frost staff more attractive but sadly zos chose the taunt option. Literally never see anyone using it except newbie dds in dungeons who don't realize that it taunts.

Two types of people use frost staves:
-those noobs who don't know any better
-good tanks that know how to use it well

Everyone else is a meta thrall that can't conceive of anything that isn't posted by woeler or alcast ever working.

And I never meet the good tanks (except on the forums) because I'm almost always the tank for the noobs who don't know any better.

Maura_Neysa

For those that haven't seen what effective Frost Tanking looks like. Yes this is me, there are probably better tanks out there.

https://youtu.be/Lipc4O9qgr8

RavenSworn

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

I think all they need to do is to reduce the heavy attack cast time for the ice staff.

As @Lynx7386 had said before, it's a resource restore, damage shield, a heavy attack and free taunt all in one. The staff works really well with nb and warden as they have class abilities that make up for the lack of fracture and breech.

While it might be better to have a DK for the main tanking slot in any trials, it doesn't mean with a different group setup (one with the healer or dps giving the off balance debuff) couldn't pull it off.

I actually don't think there is anything needed to buff the movement speed while blocking for the ice staff. Again it's in view that nbs and wardens are the ones tm using this. They already have tremendous class utilities for movement speed.

I agree that Frost shouldn't get Battle Field Mobility. I do think it should get something else though. My idea is decreased effectiveness of snares, similar to the Warden Icy Aura passive. I also think they need a counter to S&B Defect Bolts. Something like 15% Damage reduction to melee. Both of these I think would balance Frost and S&B as tanking weapons, while keeping them unique from each other.

I also don't see anything wrong with giving them some sort of DPS buff as long as its a group type. It can't be a flat bonus like Inferno/Lighting because with Frost CC that would be OP as well as it can not become a BiS weapon option. If however it did something similar to Engulfing flames or Night Mothers Gaze, where having one or 2 in a raid group was a good thing, while still leaving far better options when solo, that would be beneficial. This would also give MagWarden a much needed DPS viability boost. For example if Frost HA gave a boost like Engulfing Flames, it would make Frost Wall, and Winters Revenge hit much harder. Giving a PvE DPS boost, while being relatively ineffective in PvP and adding nothing to the Warden burst capability, its PvP strength.

If you moved just the Taunt off of the HA and onto Elemental Susceptibility (The unused other morph of Ele Drain) Then it would keep its tanking viability, not interfere with any build that I know of. Drop the refresh on damage portion, you could even leave it free if you added a cast time. Which you could then shorten from the HA length making it a little more viable to actually use to control mobs.

I like where your heart is but having to change Elemental Susceptibility would not do anything much. If you want a range magicka taunt, there is already Inner Fire. And while it might be clunky right now, Inner Fire provides synergy options which in turn helps out with group sustain. again, it's not that it's interfering with any build but it's more... why have more options of the same thing? What elemental susceptibility should have is to either have increased damage from elemental attacks(as per staff used to cast that skill) in addition to the current effect. that way you have two choices, one is sustain, the other damage.

I do like your idea of adding perhaps that 15% damage reduction to melee. It actually will give both PvE and PvP options. Might want to add that to Ancient Knowledge passive. With the faster heavy casting, 15% damage reduction to melee attacks, and Elemental Drain to boot, Frost Staff front bar might work better than how it is right now.

I'm actually warming to the idea of extra spell penetration by frost staff. Yeah it might be overkill in a trial setting, but since the Frost staff was introduced as a 'beginner' tanking weapon of sorts, in a lower level bracket, that extra penetration done might do more than just sheer extra damage alone.

Maura_Neysa

RavenSworn wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

I think all they need to do is to reduce the heavy attack cast time for the ice staff.

As @Lynx7386 had said before, it's a resource restore, damage shield, a heavy attack and free taunt all in one. The staff works really well with nb and warden as they have class abilities that make up for the lack of fracture and breech.

While it might be better to have a DK for the main tanking slot in any trials, it doesn't mean with a different group setup (one with the healer or dps giving the off balance debuff) couldn't pull it off.

I actually don't think there is anything needed to buff the movement speed while blocking for the ice staff. Again it's in view that nbs and wardens are the ones tm using this. They already have tremendous class utilities for movement speed.

I agree that Frost shouldn't get Battle Field Mobility. I do think it should get something else though. My idea is decreased effectiveness of snares, similar to the Warden Icy Aura passive. I also think they need a counter to S&B Defect Bolts. Something like 15% Damage reduction to melee. Both of these I think would balance Frost and S&B as tanking weapons, while keeping them unique from each other.

I also don't see anything wrong with giving them some sort of DPS buff as long as its a group type. It can't be a flat bonus like Inferno/Lighting because with Frost CC that would be OP as well as it can not become a BiS weapon option. If however it did something similar to Engulfing flames or Night Mothers Gaze, where having one or 2 in a raid group was a good thing, while still leaving far better options when solo, that would be beneficial. This would also give MagWarden a much needed DPS viability boost. For example if Frost HA gave a boost like Engulfing Flames, it would make Frost Wall, and Winters Revenge hit much harder. Giving a PvE DPS boost, while being relatively ineffective in PvP and adding nothing to the Warden burst capability, its PvP strength.

If you moved just the Taunt off of the HA and onto Elemental Susceptibility (The unused other morph of Ele Drain) Then it would keep its tanking viability, not interfere with any build that I know of. Drop the refresh on damage portion, you could even leave it free if you added a cast time. Which you could then shorten from the HA length making it a little more viable to actually use to control mobs.

I like where your heart is but having to change Elemental Susceptibility would not do anything much. If you want a range magicka taunt, there is already Inner Fire. And while it might be clunky right now, Inner Fire provides synergy options which in turn helps out with group sustain. again, it's not that it's interfering with any build but it's more... why have more options of the same thing? What elemental susceptibility should have is to either have increased damage from elemental attacks(as per staff used to cast that skill) in addition to the current effect. that way you have two choices, one is sustain, the other damage.

I do like your idea of adding perhaps that 15% damage reduction to melee. It actually will give both PvE and PvP options. Might want to add that to Ancient Knowledge passive. With the faster heavy casting, 15% damage reduction to melee attacks, and Elemental Drain to boot, Frost Staff front bar might work better than how it is right now.

I'm actually warming to the idea of extra spell penetration by frost staff. Yeah it might be overkill in a trial setting, but since the Frost staff was introduced as a 'beginner' tanking weapon of sorts, in a lower level bracket, that extra penetration done might do more than just sheer extra damage alone.

I suggested Susceptibility because that would be different than Inner Rage, It would stay free, and honestly I've yet to hear of anyone who uses that morph.

As for Penetration. I almost like that option too, if done right it wouldn't be OP. Right now, most builds call for around 2k pen from CP, so Frost needs to stay under that. However I think Penetration is the wrong side of the equation. In order to keep Inferno and Lighting on top, any DPS boost to Frost can NOT be upfront. So give Frost Fracture/Breach. I purpose it is separate from the de-buff system though. Frost HA de-buffs the targets physical/spell resistance by 250 for (x) seconds stacking up to 5 times. would leave everyone still needing some CP in penetration. It would also mean that Frost could never out perform Inferno/Lighting. Lastly it would mean, in an idea raid set up, you would have at least one Frost Staff user. Depending on the length of time associated to the stacks, more than one. It would also mean, if you had a Frost Tank, this wouldn't really count, because there is zero chance a tank could maintain the stacks alone.

Numbers should be adjust for proper balance
- I picked 5 stacks because that's a common them in ESO
- I picked 250 because that would be a maximum of 1250, leaving the need for no matter the build.
- X seconds, as I am not a proficient DPS I am unsure here. I feel like either 10 or 20, depending on whether the goal is to have one or two Frost Staff HA builds maintain the stacks.
- This over course will never work as long as Frost HA taunts.