The permanent costume of ungrouped players in Cyrodiil [Wizard's Riposte Rant]

zyk

Wizard's Riposte Set
(2 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) When you take Critical Damage, you apply Minor Maim to the enemy for 15 seconds, reducing their damage done by 15%

The duration of the Minor Maim debuff on Wizard's Riposte is far too long. I think it has close to a 100% uptime while I'm in combat in Cyrodiil. It should be short like the original Fasalla's so the debuff is removed after a few seconds if I stop attacking the player wearing it. That rewards intelligent play while still taking pressure of the wearer.

idk

Can it be cleansed?

DeadlyRecluse

I wear Riposte, and I agree the duration should be a bit shorter.

I think I'd still wear it at 5-10 seconds. Less than that, IDK.

Marabornwingrion

idk wrote: »

Can it be cleansed?

Yup.

Minalan

arkansas_ESO

High uptime on Minor Maim isn't anything new: if you've fought a NB with Shadow Image or a S&B build with Heroic Slash, you've already been in a fight where Minor Maim was almost always on you. The only thing Riposte does is make it easier to apply when outnumbered, and you're sacrificing a 5pc for that.

zyk

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

High uptime on Minor Maim isn't anything new: if you've fought a NB with Shadow Image or a S&B build with Heroic Slash, you've already been in a fight where Minor Maim was almost always on you. The only thing Riposte does is make it easier to apply when outnumbered, and you're sacrificing a 5pc for that.

That might be true in a duel, but not so much open world because the shades only attack one target at a time and minor maim only lasts for 4 seconds -- so if you kill the nb or escape the shades, you're good.

Heroic slash does have a comparable duration of 12s, but it's a melee ability that has to be applied to each target. It doesn't happen passively by being damaged by an opponent critically.

The problem with Wizard's Riposte is that it's so common that in even in a series of small scale fights open field, you can expect close to 100% uptime because the duration is so long and it's so easily reapplied. Without a purge, it's a big burden for an ungrouped player to have to deal with so commonly -- and there were already a lot.

Kram8ion

Ooh that's wizards repost, it's too pretty to be a debuff

VaranisArano

Kram8ion wrote: »

Ooh that's wizards repost, it's too pretty to be a debuff

Don't nerf me because I'm beautiful.

Minno

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

High uptime on Minor Maim isn't anything new: if you've fought a NB with Shadow Image or a S&B build with Heroic Slash, you've already been in a fight where Minor Maim was almost always on you. The only thing Riposte does is make it easier to apply when outnumbered, and you're sacrificing a 5pc for that.

And it's not saving you from CC+burst anyway. Even with major protection my templar ass is getting burst left and right.

Compared to abilities that absorb/dodge entire attacks or compared to high crit resist that nullify crit burst; id rather have those defenses than reposte.

zyk

Minno wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

High uptime on Minor Maim isn't anything new: if you've fought a NB with Shadow Image or a S&B build with Heroic Slash, you've already been in a fight where Minor Maim was almost always on you. The only thing Riposte does is make it easier to apply when outnumbered, and you're sacrificing a 5pc for that.

And it's not saving you from CC+burst anyway. Even with major protection my templar ass is getting burst left and right.

Compared to abilities that absorb/dodge entire attacks or compared to high crit resist that nullify crit burst; id rather have those defenses than reposte.

Regardless of whether you think Riposte has value (it does), after I attack your teammate in Riposte and then switch targets, my damage is reduced by 15% for 15 seconds against you and the defenses from the sets you think are better. It is an extremely common set (at least among EP and DC), so this is a persistent routine that goes on all night.

15% damage reduction basically nullifies the damage added by the 5th bonus of 2.5-3 offensive sets. Consider that 300 weapon damage might only buff your overall damage by less than 4%. It is significant.

Minalan

zyk wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

High uptime on Minor Maim isn't anything new: if you've fought a NB with Shadow Image or a S&B build with Heroic Slash, you've already been in a fight where Minor Maim was almost always on you. The only thing Riposte does is make it easier to apply when outnumbered, and you're sacrificing a 5pc for that.

And it's not saving you from CC+burst anyway. Even with major protection my templar ass is getting burst left and right.

Compared to abilities that absorb/dodge entire attacks or compared to high crit resist that nullify crit burst; id rather have those defenses than reposte.

Regardless of whether you think Riposte has value (it does), after I attack your teammate in Riposte and then switch targets, my damage is reduced by 15% for 15 seconds against you and the defenses from the sets you think are better. It is an extremely common set (at least among EP and DC), so this is a persistent routine that goes on all night.

15% damage reduction basically nullifies the damage added by the 5th bonus of 2.5-3 offensive sets. Consider that 300 weapon damage might only buff your overall damage by less than 4%. It is significant.

Lol! You guys get wizards nerfed, I’m going to run Caluurion and Zaan instead and show you what cancer set means.

It’s only 15%, and not even that in CP campaigns, it’s more like 10% if you actually test it at max CP. It’s only taking about as much damage off as major sorcery/brutality. TBH it’s not worth the fifth piece bonus over Lich, Caluurions, or Shackle.

zyk

15% is irrefutably a big deal. So is 10%. The point isn't that it's reducing my damage against you for 15 seconds -- though, that in itself is strong -- it's that it's also reducing my damage against everyone one else I fight within that 15 second window. It's easily applied and extremely popular. It's everywhere I go. So I basically have this debuff on me constantly.

In big keep conflicts, it's basically guaranteed I will have Minor Maim from Riposte applied most of the time. The same is true against most organized groups in any scenario.

Major Sorcery/Brutality are pretty big deals too -- though, perhaps least of all to some Magicka Sorc builds.

Because it's so easily applied, it would retain most of its strength with a shorter duration but be far less a burden to ungrouped players.

Derra

I dislike it aswell.

I think however that it´s just a symptom of the overall problematic situation where defensive sets outperform offensive ones.

Why is spinner 3450 pen (only for spell mind you) but brass gives you 5170 of both resistances.
Why is there no set giving me 15% increased dmg if i crit my target.

If people had legitimate offensive counters to overperforming defense it wouldn´t be as much of a problem (the problem being boring gameplay with noone dying) if offense wasn´t as gutted as it currently is.

Anazasi

Don't forget NB fear. While it fears only 2 now the secondary minor maim still hits 6 every time. It's purgable and can be cleansed. Sound like this whole thread is based on l2p issues.

umagon

Derra wrote: »

I dislike it aswell.

I think however that it´s just a symptom of the overall problematic situation where defensive sets outperform offensive ones.

Why is spinner 3450 pen (only for spell mind you) but brass gives you 5170 of both resistances.
Why is there no set giving me 15% increased dmg if i crit my target.

If people had legitimate offensive counters to overperforming defense it wouldn´t be as much of a problem (the problem being boring gameplay with noone dying) if offense wasn´t as gutted as it currently is.

Spinners= base game. Brass= dlc.

If you look at things how they are now most of the dlc sets are outperforming base game sets numerically speaking. It’s part of zos’s way to incentivize pvpers to purchase dlc content.

Mureel

zyk wrote: »

Wizard's Riposte Set
(2 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) When you take Critical Damage, you apply Minor Maim to the enemy for 15 seconds, reducing their damage done by 15%

The duration of the Minor Maim debuff on Wizard's Riposte is far too long. I think it has close to a 100% uptime while I'm in combat in Cyrodiil. It should be short like the original Fasalla's so the debuff is removed after a few seconds if I stop attacking the player wearing it. That rewards intelligent play while still taking pressure of the wearer.

Doesn't the imperial whatever look the same when you have 10k+ tel var? I opted against because it looks like a gank magnet!

Mureel

umagon wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I dislike it aswell.

I think however that it´s just a symptom of the overall problematic situation where defensive sets outperform offensive ones.

Why is spinner 3450 pen (only for spell mind you) but brass gives you 5170 of both resistances.
Why is there no set giving me 15% increased dmg if i crit my target.

If people had legitimate offensive counters to overperforming defense it wouldn´t be as much of a problem (the problem being boring gameplay with noone dying) if offense wasn´t as gutted as it currently is.

Spinners= base game. Brass= dlc.

If you look at things how they are now most of the dlc sets are outperforming base game sets numerically speaking. It’s part of zos’s way to incentivize pvpers to purchase dlc content.

Except you can, and many larger guilds have, attuned craft tables for the dlc sets in their guild houses - and there's nothing to stop anyone having one of their own.

umagon

Mureel wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I dislike it aswell.

I think however that it´s just a symptom of the overall problematic situation where defensive sets outperform offensive ones.

Why is spinner 3450 pen (only for spell mind you) but brass gives you 5170 of both resistances.
Why is there no set giving me 15% increased dmg if i crit my target.

If people had legitimate offensive counters to overperforming defense it wouldn´t be as much of a problem (the problem being boring gameplay with noone dying) if offense wasn´t as gutted as it currently is.

Spinners= base game. Brass= dlc.

If you look at things how they are now most of the dlc sets are outperforming base game sets numerically speaking. It’s part of zos’s way to incentivize pvpers to purchase dlc content.

Except you can, and many larger guilds have, attuned craft tables for the dlc sets in their guild houses - and there's nothing to stop anyone having one of their own.

Someone had to pay for the dlc or sub to acquire those stations and get the gear that isn’t bind on pick up. Also, there are things like earthgore which it’s numerical advantage is hard to ignore and can’t be crafted or sold.

Mureel

umagon wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I dislike it aswell.

I think however that it´s just a symptom of the overall problematic situation where defensive sets outperform offensive ones.

Why is spinner 3450 pen (only for spell mind you) but brass gives you 5170 of both resistances.
Why is there no set giving me 15% increased dmg if i crit my target.

If people had legitimate offensive counters to overperforming defense it wouldn´t be as much of a problem (the problem being boring gameplay with noone dying) if offense wasn´t as gutted as it currently is.

Spinners= base game. Brass= dlc.

If you look at things how they are now most of the dlc sets are outperforming base game sets numerically speaking. It’s part of zos’s way to incentivize pvpers to purchase dlc content.

Except you can, and many larger guilds have, attuned craft tables for the dlc sets in their guild houses - and there's nothing to stop anyone having one of their own.

Someone had to pay for the dlc or sub to acquire those stations and get the gear that isn’t bind on pick up. Also, there are things like earthgore which it’s numerical advantage is hard to ignore and can’t be crafted or sold.

K fair enough on Earthgore attainability - but the rest, not really.

Finally: So is your argument that certain sets are OP or is your argument that everything should be free for all, or is it something else?

DLCs/Subs are how the game makes revenue.

I personally think that beggars can't be choosers.

People have multiple opportunities and choices to avail themselves of DLC on the cheap, be it through saving sub crowns to just buying it when it's on sale.

So what is your actual complaint?

❤️

VaranisArano

Mureel wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Wizard's Riposte Set
(2 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) When you take Critical Damage, you apply Minor Maim to the enemy for 15 seconds, reducing their damage done by 15%

The duration of the Minor Maim debuff on Wizard's Riposte is far too long. I think it has close to a 100% uptime while I'm in combat in Cyrodiil. It should be short like the original Fasalla's so the debuff is removed after a few seconds if I stop attacking the player wearing it. That rewards intelligent play while still taking pressure of the wearer.

Doesn't the imperial whatever look the same when you have 10k+ tel var? I opted against because it looks like a gank magnet!

It is a gank magnet. That's like the entire point of that set. "Hey, I'm good enough at IC that I can run around in a set where I get better benefits the more Tel Var I carry, and I'm badass enough to make that obvious."

umagon

Mureel wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I dislike it aswell.

I think however that it´s just a symptom of the overall problematic situation where defensive sets outperform offensive ones.

Why is spinner 3450 pen (only for spell mind you) but brass gives you 5170 of both resistances.
Why is there no set giving me 15% increased dmg if i crit my target.

If people had legitimate offensive counters to overperforming defense it wouldn´t be as much of a problem (the problem being boring gameplay with noone dying) if offense wasn´t as gutted as it currently is.

Spinners= base game. Brass= dlc.

If you look at things how they are now most of the dlc sets are outperforming base game sets numerically speaking. It’s part of zos’s way to incentivize pvpers to purchase dlc content.

Except you can, and many larger guilds have, attuned craft tables for the dlc sets in their guild houses - and there's nothing to stop anyone having one of their own.

Someone had to pay for the dlc or sub to acquire those stations and get the gear that isn’t bind on pick up. Also, there are things like earthgore which it’s numerical advantage is hard to ignore and can’t be crafted or sold.

K fair enough on Earthgore attainability - but the rest, not really.

Finally: So is your argument that certain sets are OP or is your argument that everything should be free for all, or is it something else?

DLCs/Subs are how the game makes revenue.

I personally think that beggars can't be choosers.

People have multiple opportunities and choices to avail themselves of DLC on the cheap, be it through saving sub crowns to just buying it when it's on sale.

So what is your actual complaint?

❤️

I am not arguing either of those two nor am I complaining. My point is that zos is slowly increasing the power curve in a manner that forces players in pvp to upgrade or be unable to compete with other players who do. I am well aware of the skill argument but no matter how much skill a person has once the numerical advantage reaches a certain point it cannot be overcame with a player’s personal abilities. ZOS making revenue isn’t the issue. If anything is a problem it’s the ever increasing item set arms race in pvp and the way zos is using it to drive sells.

RinaldoGandolphi

@umagon

your absolutely on the right track. Its in ZOS monetary interest to put superior gear behind DLC or chapters that cost money. they have to incentivize people to buy it.

this is conjunction with the Champion System power creep has pretty much killed any semblance of competitive PVP.

Anyone who thinks the Champion System is balanced is either being disingenuous, reaps the benefits of its unbalanced nature, or simply doesn't really understand as much about it as they think.

they did a slight re-balanced over the chmapion System removing Cost Reduction, and reducing the value of a few stars, but it still has the following:

• Increased Regen
• Increased Resource return from Heavy Attacks
• Reduced Dodge roll cost
• Reduced Break Free Cost
• Reduce Block Cost
• Reduced Sprint Cost
• Reduced Sneak Cost
• Increased Direct Damage
• Increased Magic/Elemental Damage
• Increased Physical/Poison/Diesease damage
• Increased Mag Critical Damage
• Increased Stamina Critical Damage
• Increased Damage Over Time Damage
• Increased Off Balance Damage
• Increased Healing Done
• Increased Healing Received
• Increased Magic Weapons Attack Damage
• Increased Stamina Weapons Damage
• Increased Reduced Health Effect
• Reduced Direct Damage
• Reduced Magic/Elemental Damage
• Reduced Damage Over Time Damage
• Increased Critical Resistance
• Increased Armor Values(with 5 pieces of one type)
• Increased Damage Shield Values
• Reduce Damage from Light and Heavy Attacks
• Increased Spell Penetration
• Increased Physical Penetration
• Increased Damage against Damage Shields
• Increased Critical Healing
• Increased Weapon and Spell Crit passive

See the thing is, what those who defend the Champion system don't understand is:

"the Champion system is still set up in ways that allow you to cover up short comings in your build, and the more CP points we all have the more of our weakness we are able to cover up"

"At the end of the day, we are at the point where EVERYONE IS A HOUSE, and when everyone is a house it just comes down to numbers"

right now in PVP every single build can Tank, Heal, and deal enough damage to get by, they are not as good of a tank as dedicated tank, not as good of a healer as dedicated healers, and not as good of damage dealers as full on damage dealers, but they DO NOT HAVE TO BE, because the way the CP System is they are "just good enough" at all 3 roles to not need to be...when you add in proc sets, and sets like 7th Legion, BSW, or damage dealing proc sets like Skoria or Zaan, they give free damage or free stats that push them more towards raw damage while still retaining the "skilled in all trades but master of none" build style, that in a pvp game in inherently unbalanced.

Everyone in ESO PVP might as well be a Red Wizard or a Ninja from the Original Final Fantasy for the NES....if you don't know what that is, the Theif could later get a promotion to the class of Ninja and could use every single weapon in the game but two, and gained access to Black Magic. The Red Wizard could equip most of the weapons of the Fighter, and could use every most of the Black and White Magic spells while still being able to wear armor and be an effective front line fighter...

this kinda stuff is just flat out unbalanced, but ZOS wants everyone to be a house with no real defined roles, and with every update and increase in CP they blur the lines between tank, healer, and dps even more...outside of specialized support roles in large raid pvp, most setups have no real weaknesses thanks to CP.

In a real-time combat game, it shouldn't be this way...imagine in Street Fighter 2 getting a guy to 5% health and he can keep re-healing to full in 2 button clicks...its lame...im guilty of it...certain pots, high value shields like healing ward.

the TTK in ESO should be significantly less, defensive sets and overall tankiness need to be reduced signiifcantly, Healing needs to be c ulled back a lot in Cyrodiil, and only 200 of your CP should be active in Cyrodiil....take away some of those CP points so they can't be invested in shoring up weaknesses in builds and the overall balance and quality of the game will go up significantly and their will be less crying on here.

the game is the most uninteresting its even been....where are your weakness when you have 720 CP to spend? LOL....it actually mattered where you put points back when you only had 200-300, now you got enough points to get large increases across multiple stars thanks to a front loaded system.

I still say ZOS doesn't really care about PVP balance...if they did, they wouldn't have front loaded the stars like they did, and they would have made players invest far more points to get such bonuses...a 5% bonus should require like 75 points, and the max bonus you should be able to get on any star is 10% at 100 points....ahh well...this post is too long as it is.

good day

NightbladeMechanics

The better change imo is reducing Minor Maim to 8% damage reduction, to mirror similar buffs and debuffs such as Minor Berserk (Maim's intended direct mirror), Minor Vulnerability, and Minor Protection, all of which modify damage taken or dealt by 8%.

You could implement that change and reduce Riposte's duration to 8 seconds, and the set would still be strong and see plenty of use. Further reducing the duration would raise questions, but the set would still be viable in many uses.

Beardimus

Hey its a v nice set, and sure its effective in group play, but its a defense set and you run it at the cost of being more offensive, and losing a trait that's handy for health.

Joy_Division

Derra wrote: »

I dislike it aswell.

I think however that it´s just a symptom of the overall problematic situation where defensive sets outperform offensive ones.

Why is spinner 3450 pen (only for spell mind you) but brass gives you 5170 of both resistances.
Why is there no set giving me 15% increased dmg if i crit my target.

If people had legitimate offensive counters to overperforming defense it wouldn´t be as much of a problem (the problem being boring gameplay with noone dying) if offense wasn´t as gutted as it currently is.

Every time we get a decent offensive set, people post on these forums to get it nerfed and won't stop until Zos obliges.

So I wouldn't count on that changing soon.

NyassaV

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

High uptime on Minor Maim isn't anything new: if you've fought a NB with Shadow Image or a S&B build with Heroic Slash, you've already been in a fight where Minor Maim was almost always on you. The only thing Riposte does is make it easier to apply when outnumbered, and you're sacrificing a 5pc for that.

That's on one person. The maim from this set lasts a tad to long

Sigma957

The amount of times I have this de-buff on me it feels like 100% lol and just about every second person I hit has this set

Xsorus

Light armor users would just switch to Brass

J18696

The problem with wizards isnt that maims strong its that instead of making the target maim agains you it makes all their attacks against everyone maimed.

Cage_Lizardman

That thing is way too common and I'm tired of purging it. Please nerf. Cut the amount or duration, make it only proc on direct damage and not every aoe/dot tick, whatever.