Long range skill morph for magdk's?

Somber97866

Why not? Wouldn't this fix this o so dead build? Not saying it is useless but the reason doesn't work for endgame is because there is no way for magic to keep up with stam melee dps. That's a fact. ZOS! FIX THIS BUILD! IT'S EASY!

dodgehopper_ESO

Chain pull.

Danksta

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Chain pull.

Tanks got that covered.

ak_pvp

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Chain pull.

Genius, its a free, ranged spammable. (/s)

Sixty5

ak_pvp wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Chain pull.

Genius, its a free, ranged spammable. (/s)

Why did no one think of this earlier? It's a free ranged spammable for DK

I think now that this is out there the class needs another round of nerfs /s

Seraphayel

I don't understand either why the DK is forced to be a melee DPS class. Standard could get a 28m version (yes, you, Shifting Standard), Eruption is almost there. But except that... it's difficult. Most DK skills aren't designed as "ranged" skills...

dodgehopper_ESO

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don't understand either why the DK is forced to be a melee DPS class. Standard could get a 28m version (yes, you, Shifting Standard), Eruption is almost there. But except that... it's difficult. Most DK skills aren't designed as "ranged" skills...

Tell me why Templar is forced to have a 'House' and is forced to have self heals that really heal everyone else and forced to have glitch skills and forced to have a laundry list of passives that do nothing and forced to have almost everything unique about it copied over and made better in other classes. Tell me why Templars have no real cc, and whatever cc they use to have was robbed from them? Lets get real. DK is a fantastic class. I say this as someone who is sick of his Templar and is a DK convert. Dk and Warden are what Templar wishes and dreams it could be.

If you want to be a ranged DK let me make a few recommendations. Grab a bow. Use a Restoration Staff. Try out a Destruction staff. Utilize Flapping wings. Try out the Mages Guild comet, its not bad I promise. Apply those fire passives to your ranged skills in the Destruction tree... I'm assuming you're speaking of PVE because in PVP those mage-melee dps rock. If I could find Drizzt-do-Liften's link I'd post it here. Look him up on youtube (and others like him). Embrace the theme of your class - its a pretty cool one and it works.

SilverIce58

That stone fist is also a ranged attack, one that heals on one morph and raises resistances on another.

Seraphayel

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don't understand either why the DK is forced to be a melee DPS class. Standard could get a 28m version (yes, you, Shifting Standard), Eruption is almost there. But except that... it's difficult. Most DK skills aren't designed as "ranged" skills...

Tell me why Templar is forced to have a 'House' and is forced to have self heals that really heal everyone else and forced to have glitch skills and forced to have a laundry list of passives that do nothing and forced to have almost everything unique about it copied over and made better in other classes. Tell me why Templars have no real cc, and whatever cc they use to have was robbed from them? Lets get real. DK is a fantastic class. I say this as someone who is sick of his Templar and is a DK convert. Dk and Warden are what Templar wishes and dreams it could be.

If you want to be a ranged DK let me make a few recommendations. Grab a bow. Use a Restoration Staff. Try out a Destruction staff. Utilize Flapping wings. Try out the Mages Guild comet, its not bad I promise. Apply those fire passives to your ranged skills in the Destruction tree... I'm assuming you're speaking of PVE because in PVP those mage-melee dps rock. If I could find Drizzt-do-Liften's link I'd post it here. Look him up on youtube (and others like him). Embrace the theme of your class - its a pretty cool one and it works.

Is this satire?

Sigma957

I'd much rather see a dk get an execute skill, there that is my 2 cents worth .

Seraphayel

Sigma957 wrote: »

I'd much rather see a dk get an execute skill, there that is my 2 cents worth .

We had one (or at least some kind of). They entirely removed it because ... [insert pointless reason]

dodgehopper_ESO

Seraphayel wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don't understand either why the DK is forced to be a melee DPS class. Standard could get a 28m version (yes, you, Shifting Standard), Eruption is almost there. But except that... it's difficult. Most DK skills aren't designed as "ranged" skills...

Tell me why Templar is forced to have a 'House' and is forced to have self heals that really heal everyone else and forced to have glitch skills and forced to have a laundry list of passives that do nothing and forced to have almost everything unique about it copied over and made better in other classes. Tell me why Templars have no real cc, and whatever cc they use to have was robbed from them? Lets get real. DK is a fantastic class. I say this as someone who is sick of his Templar and is a DK convert. Dk and Warden are what Templar wishes and dreams it could be.

If you want to be a ranged DK let me make a few recommendations. Grab a bow. Use a Restoration Staff. Try out a Destruction staff. Utilize Flapping wings. Try out the Mages Guild comet, its not bad I promise. Apply those fire passives to your ranged skills in the Destruction tree... I'm assuming you're speaking of PVE because in PVP those mage-melee dps rock. If I could find Drizzt-do-Liften's link I'd post it here. Look him up on youtube (and others like him). Embrace the theme of your class - its a pretty cool one and it works.

Is this satire?

Try asking questions with useful answers. I just pointed you in the direction of one streamer. Granted, its just PvP oriented but I'm sure with a little effort you could find a good PvE DK to follow. DK has great support passives and actives for anything you want to do. I'll grant you its not like Sorcerer with multiple built in executes and ranged attacks but Sorcerer doesn't have a lot of the things DK does either. If you want all the Sorcerer toys maybe you should go play a Sorcerer?

I was smart enough to realize that they are just going to keep changing the Templar class away from what it was originally built for and enjoyed. So I don't play it like I use to. Its an annoying experience I will agree but that is why its nice to have more than one character. If they change the rules in a way that you hate or if you find you don't like a particular class design you can do something else. No one is stopping you.

Ch4mpTW

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don't understand either why the DK is forced to be a melee DPS class. Standard could get a 28m version (yes, you, Shifting Standard), Eruption is almost there. But except that... it's difficult. Most DK skills aren't designed as "ranged" skills...

Tell me why Templar is forced to have a 'House' and is forced to have self heals that really heal everyone else and forced to have glitch skills and forced to have a laundry list of passives that do nothing and forced to have almost everything unique about it copied over and made better in other classes. Tell me why Templars have no real cc, and whatever cc they use to have was robbed from them? Lets get real. DK is a fantastic class. I say this as someone who is sick of his Templar and is a DK convert. Dk and Warden are what Templar wishes and dreams it could be.

If you want to be a ranged DK let me make a few recommendations. Grab a bow. Use a Restoration Staff. Try out a Destruction staff. Utilize Flapping wings. Try out the Mages Guild comet, its not bad I promise. Apply those fire passives to your ranged skills in the Destruction tree... I'm assuming you're speaking of PVE because in PVP those mage-melee dps rock. If I could find Drizzt-do-Liften's link I'd post it here. Look him up on youtube (and others like him). Embrace the theme of your class - its a pretty cool one and it works.

You’re joking, yes? When comparing MagPlar to MagDK, there is little to no comparison at all. MagPlars come out on top almost always. I wish my MagDK had access to an execute. I wish my MagDK had a cleanse, that did damage and healed. I wish my MagDK had as many low-cost skills. I wish my MagDK had a spammable that also had pretty amazing healing also, and didn’t rely on a proc (Flame Lash).

I know that both MagDK’s and MagPlars has it rough, but a MagPlar complaining about what a MagDK can do? That’s like a MagSorc complaining about how they wish they were a MagDen. C’mon my guy. You sound silly. Lol.

dodgehopper_ESO

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don't understand either why the DK is forced to be a melee DPS class. Standard could get a 28m version (yes, you, Shifting Standard), Eruption is almost there. But except that... it's difficult. Most DK skills aren't designed as "ranged" skills...

Tell me why Templar is forced to have a 'House' and is forced to have self heals that really heal everyone else and forced to have glitch skills and forced to have a laundry list of passives that do nothing and forced to have almost everything unique about it copied over and made better in other classes. Tell me why Templars have no real cc, and whatever cc they use to have was robbed from them? Lets get real. DK is a fantastic class. I say this as someone who is sick of his Templar and is a DK convert. Dk and Warden are what Templar wishes and dreams it could be.

If you want to be a ranged DK let me make a few recommendations. Grab a bow. Use a Restoration Staff. Try out a Destruction staff. Utilize Flapping wings. Try out the Mages Guild comet, its not bad I promise. Apply those fire passives to your ranged skills in the Destruction tree... I'm assuming you're speaking of PVE because in PVP those mage-melee dps rock. If I could find Drizzt-do-Liften's link I'd post it here. Look him up on youtube (and others like him). Embrace the theme of your class - its a pretty cool one and it works.

You’re joking, yes? When comparing MagPlar to MagDK, there is little to no comparison at all. MagPlars come out on top almost always. I wish my MagDK had access to an execute. I wish my MagDK had a cleanse, that did damage and healed. I wish my MagDK had as many low-cost skills. I wish my MagDK had a spammable that also had pretty amazing healing also, and didn’t rely on a proc (Flame Lash).

I know that both MagDK’s and MagPlars has it rough, but a MagPlar complaining about what a MagDK can do? That’s like a MagSorc complaining about how they wish they were a MagDen. C’mon my guy. You sound silly. Lol.

I play Tank/Stam for the most part on Templar and I'm very unhappy with what they did to the class. I've been irritated since they took Blinding Flashes away and to be honest the class has just gone downhill from there. I'd rather play a Stam Sorc by far than a Stamplar. The new bug with my jabs is even more irritating to deal with. Even if I were a Magplar you have to recognize that the class is clunky as hell with a lot of stupid design flaws, heavy levels of easily avoidable telegraphing, and by the way try out Efficient purge some time.

In terms of cost you have to be joking about DK. The self heal is more reliable. The major buff to armor/sr is more cost effective and time effective, meaning you spend less time self buffing. Dragon Leap. Dragon Leap. Dragon Leap. DK is a joy to play, Stam or Mag. I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Magplar can be great I'll admit but its sheer agony to play. Its like a bulldog giving birth or something, its horrifying. At the very least DK is fun to play.

Edit: Yes I'll admit I'm a bit vitriolic about this. After thousands of pages often instigated by Devs no less, they have continuously operated changes on the Templar class that most players were not interested in. They have changed everything about the class to the point its honestly not recognizable from what it use to be. At the very least DK is recognizable although I admit they screwed things up when they got rid of the flame cloak and gave us the stupid hovering ball of fire. DK was not unscathed in all of the changes but its held its theme and playstyle quite well. It has always been an 'in your face' opponent and if you wanted to use ranged abilities you had to step outside of class. If you play a StamSorc or a Stamplar you ABSOLUTELY have to use out of class abilities. In the case of StamSorc this is vital but the nice thing is the passives actually greatly support this. If DK had the kind of ranged or execute abilities people are talking about it would be vastly overpowered. This might sound great to you but the reality is it would do to DK what it did to Templar: IT WOULD RUIN THE THEME OF THE CLASS. This is why I dislike the suggestion made. I know what such complaints did to Templar and I really don't want to see another class I love go down the swirly toilet bowl.

Somber97866

Hey dodgehopper it's meant as dicussion for magdk pve. I don't do pvp poison play. Magdk in pve is dead. End of story.

Somber97866

Oh and sorc has one execute and it's 20percent and under

dodgehopper_ESO

Somber97866 wrote: »

Oh and sorc has on execute and it's 20percent and under

Sorcerer has 2 executes. Implosion and Fury. Daedric prey also plays nicely in with this.

I understand that some DK's want a ranged attack or some of the toys of other classes. I'm trying to ring warning bells though. These kinds of requests changed what was once my favorite class over time until my class became unrecognizable. If I were a one-character kind of player I would have quit this game. I never liked the Rune Focus skill but I put up with it. Templar started out with the best recovery of all classes, it is now the worst. It started out a tanky/healing kind of support class. The tanky build is VERY niche and the healing build while functional is also very niche. Radiant Destruction killed class CC (Blinding Flashes). To further put class cc in the coffin because everyone didn't like Templar's OP damage spike they gave us a house and nerfed Shards CC. The only class cc now is a knockback. Woop-de-doo. I'd like to mention DK already has something similar, and the bow skill does as well albeit at a closer range. The Stamina build once had the benefit of Major Mending which meant that despite the class having lower damage output it could heal itself better. In the great strides that have been taken to make Templar more of a DPS class it once again nerfed Mending making it less of the in your face build it use to be. I don't recognize my Templar any more. Is it possible to make something good out of the class? Yes. Is it something I enjoy playing now? No. This is what I'm talking about. How many DK's are going to get screwed by these changes to offset the balances you want to put into place? This is what I'm talking about.

Somber97866

The logic is if your going to do melee damage then why do something that is so much lower than anything else. Magic melee is not practical and frankly shouldn't be. Magic doesn't do super high single target burst damage ( atleast doesnt excell at it like time ) but consistent area damage over time with great self survivability. That's ok. Nothing wrong with that. Seems to me and the ppl I play with on console, that is the ideaZOS has for magic. I'm keeping with that theme and direction the magdk is forgotten and left out in the rain. To fix this would be really easy and I'm curious of how this hurts anyone. I understand you pvp'ers freak out about distance situations but know that ZOS will be certain to nerf the damage in exchange for the distance. So calm down. Take a deep breath. It will be ok.

dodgehopper_ESO

Somber97866 wrote: »

Hey dodgehopper it's meant as dicussion for magdk pve. I don't do pvp poison play. Magdk in pve is dead. End of story.

I can feel for your concerns here. I'm just suggesting that it is playing with fire. The balance changes that could result might very well infuriate a lot of your Tanky and StamDK brothers. This is what bothers me. I admit I'm a little passionate about the topic because I'm very frustrated by the Templar treatment and I am worried if they take this 'ranged/execute' suggestion seriously DK will never be the same.

At any regard I think I've said my peace. Perhaps there is a way to handle your concerns that also solves mine. I just wanted to have people think about the ramifications of such a change and what it could mean for your class. I probably shouldn't have started out with the chain pull polemic. In reality I would love to see tools available to make Tanking, DPS and Healing viable for all classes at all levels. I'm just not convinced we're ever going to see that anymore. Spellcrafting might exact that kind of change but it will be a whole new game if they release it.

Somber97866

Implosion is a passive proc not an actual execute. Not a skill.

Somber97866

Sorry for last comment, came off as smart elict. Wasn't trying too. Nothing in program guide says there could be 3 skill morph options brother. If designers and programmers can't figure that out we will only be playing for another year or so anyway. Have you seen all the bugs,lol. If they cannot figure out how to add an extra morph then the bugs and glitches will never be fixed.

dodgehopper_ESO

Somber97866 wrote: »

Implosion is a passive proc not an actual execute. Not a skill.

What would you prefer? Having a passive execute AND an active execute, or just an active? Implosion is amazing and so is Endless Fury. There's a reason a lot of Sorcs start dropping Furies on people in pvp when their health drops low. Its not uncommon to see Fury side by side with Implosion on the death recap. I would not understate the value of this passive skill.

beetleklee

I just want MagDK's skill costs reduced and a damage buff to Eruption, and maybe return Flames of Oblivion to being an AOE. MagDK has the worst sustain and needs a buff to its damage to compete with melee Stam classes.

JobooAGS

Somber97866 wrote: »

The logic is if your going to do melee damage then why do something that is so much lower than anything else. Magic melee is not practical and frankly shouldn't be. Magic doesn't do super high single target burst damage ( atleast doesnt excell at it like time ) but consistent area damage over time with great self survivability. That's ok. Nothing wrong with that. Seems to me and the ppl I play with on console, that is the ideaZOS has for magic. I'm keeping with that theme and direction the magdk is forgotten and left out in the rain. To fix this would be really easy and I'm curious of how this hurts anyone. I understand you pvp'ers freak out about distance situations but know that ZOS will be certain to nerf the damage in exchange for the distance. So calm down. Take a deep breath. It will be ok.

Magicka melee should be a thing, for both pve and pvp, same with stam ranged... and no Im not talking about snipe spammers, just make snipe an ult, make rapid fire a spammable and adjust accordenly

Seraphayel

Just give us an execute like you gave Templar Jesus Beam.

dodgehopper_ESO

Seraphayel wrote: »

Just give us an execute like you gave Templar Jesus Beam.

I'd rather they take Radiant Destruction back and give us Blinding Flashes. This is my point.

zParallaxz

Seraphayel wrote: »

Sigma957 wrote: »

I'd much rather see a dk get an execute skill, there that is my 2 cents worth .

We had one (or at least some kind of). They entirely removed it because ... [insert pointless reason]

What was it

Seraphayel

zParallaxz wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Sigma957 wrote: »

I'd much rather see a dk get an execute skill, there that is my 2 cents worth .

We had one (or at least some kind of). They entirely removed it because ... [insert pointless reason]

What was it

Igneous Weapons had an execute morph if I remember correctly.

Savos_Saren

Stone Giant could be turned into flame damage instead of "magic damage" and have some sort of small splash damage in order to make it more appealing to DKs. (it would benefit from the World in Ruin passive)

A passive execute like Sorc's "Implosion" would help out. Just call it "Immolation"... and don't give the DKs an actual execute.

And, for the love of Sithis, return Flames of Oblivion back to its original form. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXlYxozQPLA skip to 3:18 to see what it originally did.

For those of you who don't know what it originally did: FoO used to basically be like a Sorc's Hurricane... IIRC, ZoS took it away because of "graphic instability"... yet managed to put it on Sorcs. Go figure

dodgehopper_ESO

@Seraphayel , @Somber97866 : To give you guys more or less what you want without ruining Dragon [KNIGHT] forever ZoS would really need to implement something more like @TheShadowScout recommended. Here is an Example:

ShadowScout's Class Morph Idea

This is the only way I can foresee the changes players like this want without ruining a class. In fact it might actually make me like Templar again, and that would be a happy day.

Seraphayel

What the hell gets ruined when the only class not capable of ranged combat gets the option to play ranged combat? Nothing gets taken away, just some skills get a higher range. What's the great deal behind it that could ruin DK?