Which Racial Passives Need Improved/Replaced?

  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    And to answer the OP

    NORD.
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus - VR16 (810CP) Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-02-18 - 16-02-18 & Sheogorath 02-05-19 - 07-05-19
    Alts - - for the Lolz
    Archimus - Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
    Orcimus - Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
    Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master

    Fighting for : The SAXON Guild
    Fighting with [PvP] : The Lunar Wolves
    Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | TradersOfNirn2
    Trials : Saviours

    Xbox One | NA | EP
    Bëardimus - L40 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
    Heals-With-Pets - CP160+ Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    @Beardimus @Turelus already explained this, please read all comments in a thread before replying. See here-

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4907134/#Comment_4907134
  • fred4
    fred4
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    Asardes wrote: »
    It really doesn't do much. One is feeling, another is actually calculating the effect. I agree that's slightly more useful if you are playing Medium Armor in PvP, where you are not already resistance capped, but the bulk of your mitigation in any setting, be it PvP or PvE actually comes from blocking, especially blocking with a shield.
    OK, I have so many issues with that analysis. I assume you are talking about the 6% mitigation. Yes, I am playing medium armor in PvP. No, my mitigation does not come from blocking, it comes from my innate tankiness, from dodge rolling, and from healing, since I play dual-wield. Bloodthirst is my main attack, and I can't block while that channels. I am not the only person who does this. When I face stamsorcs in particular, who seem really tanky, and I look at the combat log afterwards, I am often surprised by the lack of blocking that I see.

    I agree that 6% does not sound like much, but then take a set like Vampire's Cloak, which devotes a whole 5-piece bonus to 8% Minor Protection. That set used to be quite popular. I did not rate it highly myself - tried it on a magicka toon. I find the 15% from Wizard's Riposte noticeable, not so much the 8% from Vampire's Cloak, but there is the pesky fact that Vampire's Cloak is a heavy set with health bonuses, which reduces your magicka / shield size in exchange for health you don't need as a shielding build. The Nord passive, on the other hand, is free of that constraint.

    Since you mentioned the resistance cap, let me reiterate that:

    (A) The Nord passive is not resistance. It is added.

    (B) It is applied before damage shields.

    (C) The resistance cap in PvP is rather a lot higher than 33K, since players run penetration. Add up light armor, Spinner, Major Breach, CP and Sharpened, and you theoretically end up with around 20K penetration, putting the cap at 53K instead. A more typical value of 10K still puts it at 43K. Only an outright tank would reach those lofty values. The effective resistances of the average tanky player, in PvP, are more around the 20K mark, when you deduct penetration.

    I am just weary of evaluating this buff on paper. I play 5 toons actively. Every time I pick up the Nord DK, she feels really tanky. As I have explained, I don't block much, and I don't run 1H+S. Most of the DK passives that make you tanky have to do with blocking. I do not use Igneous Shield for the Major Mending. So I can't explain it. I can only figure that it is the Nord passives I'm feeling. 6% doesn't sound much on paper, but in my experience, this game is played in the margins. Aside from burst combos, the pressure you feel from another player in PvP depends on whether you do more damage to them, or they to you. A few percent one way, or the other, quickly add up over the course of a fight. I couldn't put a figure on it, but I have the impression that you feel even small percentages of damage or mitigation gains in this game.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • IAVITNI
    IAVITNI
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    Maulkin wrote: »
    Agree with the above, Nord needs a bit of help.

    I would also personally change Bretons and give them 5% more magic damage, perhaps in exchange for the Spell Resist. Currently Dunmers and Altmers are the strongest classes for elemental builds Altmers even make better healers (cause healers stack regen)

    Adding magic damage bonus would at least make Bretons best race for a dps build which is heavy on magic damage, like NBs. It would add more diversity.

    NORD
    I think adding in a cooldown version of the vampire passive of undying could have potential. Cooldown would need to be +1 minute though for balance. And Health Recovery is THE most underrated stat btw.

    Thematically, Nords are known to be resilient and are often depicted as Berserker-esque.

    Breton
    From a lore perspective, Altmer and Dunmer SHOULD be dealing better magic damage. Bretons have an affinity to magic because they have Altmer blood. A diluted power source should not outperform the original source.

    Bretons are portrayed as the most efficient/technical of the races, hence why they were given magicka cost reduction. Changing the passive to work like Alteration (reduces ALL costs) would be more thematically appropriate and set them apart in a way that is still effective. Alteration/Seducer are very powerful and versatile sets, so don't underestimate cost reduction.

    Khajit
    Carnage should definitely grant spell crit as well. Maybe tack on a 5% damage boost on your next Light/Heavy attack (3% if any damage skill) after crit.

    Khajit are supposed to be vicious and borderline feral (similar to Bosmer). Having them become more deadly after landing a critical hit embodies the name of the passive.

    On the topic of Stealthy, this passive is kind of necessary from a lore and role play perspective. The best approach is most likely to remove the damage bonus and have it remove/reduce sneak movement speed penalty and then just buff Carnage and Y'ffre's Endurance to compensate. Bumping them to 10% and 20% respectively should be fair.

    Imperial
    Don't know much about Imperial lore. From what I recall, they are supposed to be the most well rounded and charismatic/diplomatic of the races, while still being fairly resilient. Maybe give them a "Constitution" passive in Red Diamond, granting 300 Health and 150 of either Magicka/Stam (random) after taking damage every 8 seconds.

    Orc
    Solid in PvP, lacklustre in PvE. Maybe buff Unflinching so that you instantly break free at no cost in PvE.

    Bosmer, Altmer, Dunmer and Argonian are fine as is imo. Bosmer could maybe use a buff only a very minor number adjustment.
  • SmellyUnlimited
    SmellyUnlimited
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    Beardimus wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Orc Craftsman.
    It's the only racial trait which grants a limited bonus, after you've finished levelling craft lines it does nothing for your character.
    Other fluff traits whilst not amazing at least continue to be useful.

    Personally I would change this to something like repair costs, it's not amazing still but it's going to come into play more than it currently does.

    Not quite true, all the Weopon enlightenments are useless after L50 too. And hitting that is way shorter time than master crafter all crafts. So I disagree, it's more usefull

    It’s like I’m hearing an echo...of me....from this thread....
    DO. NOT. WIPE. (in game OR out!)
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    Make Red Diamond more like Adrenaline Rush.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • Keylun
    Keylun
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    Redgaurd needs to be changed similar to imperial. They should have a 10% chance to restore stamina with meele attacks, not constant sucess. If not, buff imperial to constantly restore health with each hit.
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    My changes.

    Altmer: Magic damage bonus not elemental damage bonus (nerf)
    Argonian: Massively OP. Reduce resource return from potions. Perhaps straight remove the max mag bonus. I feel they are one of the best hybrid races. (nerf)
    Bosmer: Block cost reduction, or perhaps stamina cost reduction similar to bretons mag one. This will make them good tanks which AD lacks. But they will remain strong PVP DPS.
    Breton: Tricky all these mag bonus's with out corresponding damage buff. Maybe a buff to the cost reduction or mag regen make them the sustain race for magicka.
    Dumner: They seem okay except that dual wield bonus and fire damage bonus don't make sense together. unless there will be a way to duel wield as a mag character.
    Imperial: Lost this place as the best tanks, red diamond needs a big buff.
    Khajit: Bonus damage on bleed effects, spell crit and weapon crit. Damage, Khajit deal damage as their primary goal.
    Nord: Heroic, Give them faster Ulti gen, seems strong and fitting.
    Orsimer: Hmm they are unpopular but I like their passives. I think it should be all melee skills not melee weapon skills only.
    Redgaurd: I think they are nicely balanced atm, stamina sustain race.

    Steathly passive is super great and super annoying. Its annoying because its useless in PVE and great in PVP. It is also annoying it is on two AD races. I like it but perhaps it should be in ledgenmen instead and have everyone access to it?
  • Ectheliontnacil
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    I've always hated racial passives and I wish they were removed from the game. I guess that first racial trait, which allows your character to level a specific skill line at a faster pace, is alright and even lore friendly. Some races have an aptitude for certain types of combat and should therefore advance in them more rapidly.

    However the "actual" racial passives are completely lore breaking, as they prevent any character that is not the optimal race for a specific build from performing competitively. This restricts players from choosing freely between the races and completely breaks immersion. It simply doesn't make sense to have an entire continent filled with Dunmer magdks, Argonian healers and redguard stamina builds. Although it is true that, according to lore, Redguards tend to be great warriors and high elves have an innate capacity for magic, this is does not apply to every single individual and is simply a predisposition which can be overcome by hard work (so 15% more experience gains make perfect sense and they don't put other races at a disadvantage, once they have put in that extra work to reach maximum level in that skill line).
    Take Shalidor as an example. He was arguably one of the most powerful mages ever to exist and he was a Nord (I mean try playing a Nord sorcerer in eso...).

    There will of course be some people who argue that anything "works". You can play "whatever race you want", they will tell me. But this is completely untrue. If you were to run a Altmer stamina sorcerer instead of a Redguard, you would miss out on approximately 400 regen (depending on how high your base regen is) and 3-4k stamina, that's almost two five piece bonuses...I am not saying it wont be possible to do your undaunted pledges and get a couple kills on lowbies in Cyrodiil, but you will be at a severe statistical disadvantage compared to other players with the "ideal" race.

    My suggestion would be to grant every race the same generic bonuses: 10% max magicka and stamina, 10% magicka and stamina regeneration, 5% spell and weapon critical...this is just an idea. It doesn't really matter if the racials are overpowered or completely useless, since every character will have the same bonuses.

    I don't see any reason to disagree with me on this, this change would only serve to give players more freedom in choosing their race. If you like your argonian healers, you won't be forced to change anything about them. If anyone however brings up the argument "not playing the race you want is the price you pay for extra stats" I would like to point out that this is a game, a place where people ought to enjoy themselves and there is absolutely no reason for this "price for everything" philosophy in an MMO...I know it sounds weird to even bring this up, but I've seen so many people use this argument.
    Edited by Ectheliontnacil on March 3, 2018 1:10PM
    Niënor Níniel - AD Magicka Nightblade
    Luthien Nightingale - AD Magicka Sorcerer
    Nienna of Valinor - AD Stamblade (New)

    And some alts.

    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFmXIfIko0eWAyQd1a8CMhQ
  • danno8
    danno8
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    My suggestion would be to grant every race the same generic bonuses: 10% max magicka and stamina, 10% magicka and stamina regeneration, 5% spell and weapon critical...this is just an idea. It doesn't really matter if the racials are overpowered or completely useless, since every character will have the same bonuses.

    Well why have bonuses at all?

    The best solution to the "one race to rule them all" problem is of course to disassociate the bonuses from race altogether and let people choose the bonuses they want (or bundle of bonuses, which would be easier for balancing).

    Oblivion had this with the "Birth sign" selection at character select.
  • Ectheliontnacil
    Ectheliontnacil
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    @danno8

    True, I have though about that too. But they would need to design a new system to replace racial passives and I personally don't believe Zeni is inclined to do so. Simply changing the passives should be (comparatively) easy.
    Niënor Níniel - AD Magicka Nightblade
    Luthien Nightingale - AD Magicka Sorcerer
    Nienna of Valinor - AD Stamblade (New)

    And some alts.

    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFmXIfIko0eWAyQd1a8CMhQ
  • Silver_Strider
    Silver_Strider
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    If people are so hellbent on getting Argonians nerfed, can it just be in the form of reverting the potion passive back to the 12% value it had prior to 1 Tamriel?
    Argonian forever
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