How would you like to see Zaan nerfed?

Sixty5

The general consensus seems to be that this set is over performing, and with Dragon bones being released on console, the general community can really get a feel for the set.

So given this feeling, how would you like to see the set changed in order to make it a healthier option?
I've omitted numbers here in favour of general approaches in order to better create discussion.

Personally, I'd go with cutting the tether range, just to emphasise the intended counterplay for the set, as well as to reward those that can execute control over an opponents movement, alongside leaving the set untouched for PVE players (Those Mag DK's need all the help they can get)

ArchMikem

The set is fine and does not need a nerf

I dont.

SirCritical

Anyhow, just need to be done based on PvP whining

Qbiken

The set is fine and does not need a nerf

Current tooltip:
(2 items) When you deal Critical Damage with a Light or Heavy Attack to a nearby enemy, a beam of fire will connect you to your enemy. The beam deals 3440 Flame Damage every 1 second for 5 seconds. Every second, this damage increases by 50%. The beam is broken if the enemy moves 10 meters away from you. This effect can occur every 15 seconds.

Suggested change:
(2 items) When you deal Critical Damage with a Light or Heavy Attack to a nearby enemy, a beam of fire will connect you to your enemy. The beam deals 3440 Flame Damage every 1 second for 9 seconds. Every second, this damage increases by 25%. The beam is broken if the enemy moves 10 meters away from you. This effect can occur every 18 seconds.

Total damage is roughly the same (slightly lower than the original). The set becomes less of a burst set, which makes it less useful in PvP. The longer duration makes it more useful for PvE.

Sixty5

Reduce the tether range

Qbiken wrote: »

Current tooltip:
(2 items) When you deal Critical Damage with a Light or Heavy Attack to a nearby enemy, a beam of fire will connect you to your enemy. The beam deals 3440 Flame Damage every 1 second for 5 seconds. Every second, this damage increases by 50%. The beam is broken if the enemy moves 10 meters away from you. This effect can occur every 15 seconds.

Suggested change:
(2 items) When you deal Critical Damage with a Light or Heavy Attack to a nearby enemy, a beam of fire will connect you to your enemy. The beam deals 3440 Flame Damage every 1 second for 9 seconds. Every second, this damage increases by 25%. The beam is broken if the enemy moves 10 meters away from you. This effect can occur every 18 seconds.

Total damage is roughly the same (slightly lower than the original). The set becomes less of a burst set, which makes it less useful in PvP. The longer duration makes it more useful for PvE.

You literally just described option 3 on the poll.

Abysswarrior45

Other, please specify

I like all the options but I think both it and skoria should suffer the same penalty all proc sets did. Zaan should be interruptible and Skoria should have a red circle on the ground you have 1 sec to get out of before the meteor hits.

Nobody should need free damage. Its a crutch and takes away from skill-based combat. TBh I'd settle for any of the changes mentioned at this point so I don't have to see 15k Zaan on my recap even after roll dodging and trying to escape. Naan would destroy anyone who failed to utilize an in-game mechanic learned during the tutorial and would be completely useless against players who knew how to bash.

ak_pvp

Increase the length of the proc, but keep overall damage the same

Lower CD to 6s. Make damage done per proc 2/5 of current.

Solves the PvP bads who can't follow a counter within the tooltip.

PvE damage will be the same. 1/3 cooldown, and 2/5 damage. The slightly increased damage/CD ratio is to make up for the need to proc more often. (ALT: 1/3 CD, 1/3 Damage per proc, higher proc chance) It'd also be better with less DPS loss if the beam is broken due to mechanics.

ccfeeling

Other, please specify

Don't nerf Zann , please buff the other sets or change their utilities totally .

Nightflame
(2 items) When you heal a friendly target, you have a 5% chance to summon a totem for 6 seconds that heals you and your allies in area for 3483 Health every 1 second. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

I vote this set garbage #1

Scourge Harverster , Pirate Skeleton , Spawn of Mephala all suck , actually if the proc rate is lower than 10% , it's too hard to proc , even we spam the skills . Mephala , who stam dps use it ? I have no idea how the hell combat team develop this set .

Gina , please take a look .

rustic_potato

Make proc sets crit again. That is the fix this set needs. I want to hit 50k selfbuffed on 6 mill dummy with trial setup.

ak_pvp

Increase the length of the proc, but keep overall damage the same

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

I like all the options but I think both it and skoria should suffer the same penalty all proc sets did. Zaan should be interruptible and Skoria should have a red circle on the ground you have 1 sec to get out of before the meteor hits.

Nobody should need free damage. Its a crutch and takes away from skill-based combat. TBh I'd settle for any of the changes mentioned at this point so I don't have to see 15k Zaan on my recap even after roll dodging and trying to escape. Naan would destroy anyone who failed to utilize an in-game mechanic learned during the tutorial and would be completely useless against players who knew how to bash.

Hmmm...

Its a crutch and takes away from skill-based combat.

Skoria should have a red circle on the ground you have 1 sec to get out of before the meteor hits.

Ironic. Sets based on playstyles to proc them isn't skill based, but a asking for a telegraph is. Hmmm.

Skoria having a 1s orange meteor symbol is fine. Having a big red "Block now" like with selenes isn't. I would prefer they just fix the sound that should play before, but never does.

Morgul667

Increase the length of the proc, but keep overall damage the same

Reduce damage increase duration, no impact on PVE, helps survival in PVP.

ak_pvp

Increase the length of the proc, but keep overall damage the same

ccfeeling wrote: »

Don't nerf Zann , please buff the other sets or change their utilities totally .

Nightflame
(2 items) When you heal a friendly target, you have a 5% chance to summon a totem for 6 seconds that heals you and your allies in area for 3483 Health every 1 second. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

I vote this set garbage #1

Scourge Harverster , Pirate Skeleton , Spawn of Mephala all suck , actually if the proc rate is lower than 10% , it's too hard to proc , even we spam the skills . Mephala , who stam dps use it ? I have no idea how the hell combat team develop this set .

Gina , please take a look .

IIRC mephala is comparable DPS for a stamDK, and its AoE.

ccfeeling

Other, please specify

ak_pvp wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Don't nerf Zann , please buff the other sets or change their utilities totally .

Nightflame
(2 items) When you heal a friendly target, you have a 5% chance to summon a totem for 6 seconds that heals you and your allies in area for 3483 Health every 1 second. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

I vote this set garbage #1

Scourge Harverster , Pirate Skeleton , Spawn of Mephala all suck , actually if the proc rate is lower than 10% , it's too hard to proc , even we spam the skills . Mephala , who stam dps use it ? I have no idea how the hell combat team develop this set .

Gina , please take a look .

IIRC mephala is comparable DPS for a stamDK, and its AoE.

I have never play stam dk dps , is it meta setup in trial ?

Sixty5

Reduce the tether range

ccfeeling wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Don't nerf Zann , please buff the other sets or change their utilities totally .

Nightflame
(2 items) When you heal a friendly target, you have a 5% chance to summon a totem for 6 seconds that heals you and your allies in area for 3483 Health every 1 second. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

I vote this set garbage #1

Scourge Harverster , Pirate Skeleton , Spawn of Mephala all suck , actually if the proc rate is lower than 10% , it's too hard to proc , even we spam the skills . Mephala , who stam dps use it ? I have no idea how the hell combat team develop this set .

Gina , please take a look .

IIRC mephala is comparable DPS for a stamDK, and its AoE.

I have never play stam dk dps , is it meta setup in trial ?

Last patch Stam DK was pulling highest numbers of any class. Magblade might be a tad better now, but stam DK has a much easier rotation.

Tommy_The_Gun

Well ZOS has done terrible job when posting patch notes (they just copy-paste the first Dragon Bones PTS patch notes with no changes).
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/391220/pts-patch-notes-v3-3-2/p1
In game Zaan has this description:

"When you damage a nearby enemy with a Light or Heavy Attack, you have a 20% chance to create a beam of fire that will connect you to your enemy. The beam deals X Flame Damage (4482 for me) every 1 second to your enemy for 5 seconds. Every second, this damage increases by 50%. The beam is broken if the enemy moves 10 meters away from you. This effect can occur every 18 seconds."

And this is a problem. During pts people (hard core pvp & pve veterans) stated multiple times that zaan is way to strong and there is simply no reason that a set should give that much free dmg. So what zos did ? Instead of reducing dmg they added 20% chance and removed crit requirements. This means that this set can work on a pvp perma-blocking tank build that don't have to build for a high crit chance and act as a "free" dmg source comparable easily with soul assault...
We already had almost exactly the same problem with viper set.... And this is the reason why viper's sting set was nerfed to oblivion.

Anhedonie

The set is fine and does not need a nerf

Learn to WASDleft stick.

magorim

"Stupid sets for stupid players"
- Forrest Gump

monktoasty

The set is fine and does not need a nerf

Yea let's nerf more items into uselessness.

Just turn pvp into no.cp no gear no weapons and slap each other

FakeFox

Other, please specify

Reduce the damage and change the proc chance so it procs more often on magicka builds, maybe from fire damage.
The biggest problem I see with Zaan is that you can play it on pretty much everything and it is strong.

ccfeeling

Other, please specify

monktoasty wrote: »

Yea let's nerf more items into uselessness.

Just turn pvp into no.cp no gear no weapons and slap each other

I play like this sometimes ... in GTA

Banana

Other, please specify

I dont have it. One day

ak_pvp

Increase the length of the proc, but keep overall damage the same

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Well ZOS has done terrible job when posting patch notes (they just copy-paste the first Dragon Bones PTS patch notes with no changes).
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/391220/pts-patch-notes-v3-3-2/p1
In game Zaan has this description:

"When you damage a nearby enemy with a Light or Heavy Attack, you have a 20% chance to create a beam of fire that will connect you to your enemy. The beam deals X Flame Damage (4482 for me) every 1 second to your enemy for 5 seconds. Every second, this damage increases by 50%. The beam is broken if the enemy moves 10 meters away from you. This effect can occur every 18 seconds."

And this is a problem. During pts people (hard core pvp & pve veterans) stated multiple times that zaan is way to strong and there is simply no reason that a set should give that much free dmg. So what zos did ? Instead of reducing dmg they added 20% chance and removed crit requirements. This means that this set can work on a pvp perma-blocking tank build that don't have to build for a high crit chance and act as a "free" dmg source comparable easily with soul assault...
We already had almost exactly the same problem with viper set.... And this the reason why viper's sting set was nerfed to oblivion.

Well it did get a longer duration. Also. You are wrong. 20% on light attack is worse than on light attack crit. My heavy armour build is at around 40% crit. Its a nerf since more weaves means more permablock down time.

Prof_Bawbag

I ain't got it

MLGProPlayer

The set is fine and does not need a nerf

It's balanced. No need to nerf.

Turelus

Other, please specify

Other.

Battlespirit
Undaunted monster sets 2nd bonuses are disabled.

I fixed PvP.

Doctordarkspawn

The set is fine and does not need a nerf

PVP cannot be satisfied. Attempting it is pointless.

Ragnarock41

Reduce the tether range

this is a difficult topic. this set is very easy to counter for a sorc(just streak once) or a nb ( cloak away, afaik cloak counters zaan, correct me if wrong.)

But as a walking rock main running away from the zaan proc while the proc user also chasing me is just not really a possibility sadly.

Qbiken

The set is fine and does not need a nerf

Turelus wrote: »

Other.

Battlespirit
Undaunted monster sets 2nd bonuses are disabled.

I fixed PvP.

Jeopardy:

"What is Band-Aid solution" xD

Would be incredibly boring if this was the case.....

amir412

Any1 who is saying Zaan is balanced, is either blind or pve player.
So what, were back to relying on 2 set pieces proc sets? when viper did half of this dmg pepole used to complain like mad, i really cant understand wtf is going on with this community.

22k dmg to heavy armor with 35k resist is absurd, who ever encourage this kind of gameplay also encourage unskilled gameplay.
You can literally kill noobs naked with this set equipped only , using ur fists to proc it. Its stupid.
The dots are stronger than standart of might ultimate, and 10 meters is not helping to break the beam (Dodging to increase gap will destroy u since u need to block that dmg to survive.)
Only counter i see for this ***, is NB with cloak or Sorc with streak (Not sure about templar purify). like wtf, how can u tell this set is balanced?

PVE class balance atm is at really bad place, i assume adding Zaan helping to reduce the gaps in DPS classes, but truly damage PVP experience.

Well, learning from the past, not sure why im suprised how zos deals with issues.

Turelus

Other, please specify

Qbiken wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Other.

Battlespirit
Undaunted monster sets 2nd bonuses are disabled.

I fixed PvP.

Jeopardy:

"What is Band-Aid solution" xD

Would be incredibly boring if this was the case.....

We would however see the end of proc threads and nerf X set every dungeon update. We survived in PvP before proc sets were a thing.
The number of band-aids, balance passes and changes we've had to have to make them work in PvP and be accessible for PvP players it would have been easier to just disable them.

I mean it's never going to happen, but it makes conversation.

Cage_Lizardman

Reduce the tether range

I can't imagine it working very well on a permablocking build since you need to light attack quite a bit to proc it. I often can't get it to proc when I want to. And I often die trying, but I'm not tanky at all.

The intended counter of moving away doesn't work in practice, as long as the attacker makes some effort to stay in range. The only good counter to it is cloaking, and that's OP too.