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ZOS Plz Consider Medium Armor Adjust
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. If you buff medium armor, all you’ll be doing is buffing Stam nightblades.. who really don’t need a buff right now.
Medium is not meant to take damage. It’s meant to help you avoid damage by dodging, kiting, and killing your opponents.
If you are trying to mitigate damage in medium then it is a learn to play issue and you should switch to heavy.
Thats a separate issue. Medium armor shouldn't be gimped because of one class.
No that's exactly how things become overperfoming, because things get changed which influence and strengthen things which are totally fine.
Also medium armor is totally fine, the sad thing is that both heavy and medium are pigeon holed into 1 build each.
On heavy you need FM meaning you need to stack healing.
With medium you have to get your resistances up to prevent being a one shot which limits you to some sets which need to be in your build.
So then it’s not really fine.
Neither is heavy if thats how you measure it.
The sneak passive is useless yes but making Medium Armor stronger will make stamnb even more op.
And as ZoS likes to handle their things they won't do both at the same time so we'll get atleast 3 months of stamnb dominance0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
Yeah, lets just make medium armor more tanky then heavy so there is literally no reason to run heavy armor anymore.
Brilliant idea.Edited by Ragnarock41 on February 26, 2018 8:16AM1 -
1) Medium armor damage should be compatible with the Light armor damage. It just does not make sense that medium armor give less damage than light armor through passives. Light armor builds have more damage because of spell penetration and have strong shields and healing.
2) Why are the most offensive sets heavy armor? You can stack far more weapon damage using heavy armor than using medium. 5 fury or 5 seven legion + 5 truth beats any combination of medium armor sets out there while being tanky and have good healing.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭felipenepub17_ESO wrote: »1) Medium armor damage should be compatible with the Light armor damage. It just does not make sense that medium armor give less damage than light armor through passives. Light armor builds have more damage because of spell penetration and have strong shields and healing.
2) Why are the most offensive sets heavy armor? You can stack far more weapon damage using heavy armor than using medium. 5 fury or 5 seven legion + 5 truth beats any combination of medium armor sets out there while being tanky and have good healing.
most offensive sets are heavy armor because it was basically garbage for a very long time, garbage to the point nobody but hardcore pve tanks used it, then one day zos promised the players to make heavy armor fighters viable in PvP, so these sets were the bandaid fix from that times.
Whats funny is that nobody used those sets over black rose, which is nerfed into oblivion now, I don't want to see the same trend with other heavy armor sets because zos already removed wrath.Edited by Ragnarock41 on February 26, 2018 11:01AM0 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree that something should be done to buff medium. I don't even allocate points into the sneak passives and still have more than 110% sneak reduction, which funny enough still gets drained.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No. If you buff medium armor, all you’ll be doing is buffing Stam nightblades.. who really don’t need a buff right now.
Medium is not meant to take damage. It’s meant to help you avoid damage by dodging, kiting, and killing your opponents.
If you are trying to mitigate damage in medium then it is a learn to play issue and you should switch to heavy.
Thats a separate issue. Medium armor shouldn't be gimped because of one class.
Yes, but a StamNB nerf just isn’t realistic. It’s a setup that attracts bad players (rogue ninja whatever) who always will feel underpowered no matter how strong the class really is. Open a thread about a NB ability and suggest a nerf. Just be ready for the pitchforks and the burning stakes in that case.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.3 -
Ragnarock41 wrote: »felipenepub17_ESO wrote: »1) Medium armor damage should be compatible with the Light armor damage. It just does not make sense that medium armor give less damage than light armor through passives. Light armor builds have more damage because of spell penetration and have strong shields and healing.
2) Why are the most offensive sets heavy armor? You can stack far more weapon damage using heavy armor than using medium. 5 fury or 5 seven legion + 5 truth beats any combination of medium armor sets out there while being tanky and have good healing.
most offensive sets are heavy armor because it was basically garbage for a very long time, garbage to the point nobody but hardcore pve tanks used it, then one day zos promised the players to make heavy armor fighters viable in PvP, so these sets were the bandaid fix from that times.
Whats funny is that nobody used those sets over black rose, which is nerfed into oblivion now, I don't want to see the same trend with other heavy armor sets because zos already removed wrath.
Me neither. Heavy armor is doing fine. It´s just that medium armor is just weak and lackluster in comparison to Light armor and heavy armor.
Give penetration or maybe a max stam buff to medium armor to help in the damage. Right now my heavy and light armor toons have much more offensive potential than my medium ones.2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭felipenepub17_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »felipenepub17_ESO wrote: »1) Medium armor damage should be compatible with the Light armor damage. It just does not make sense that medium armor give less damage than light armor through passives. Light armor builds have more damage because of spell penetration and have strong shields and healing.
2) Why are the most offensive sets heavy armor? You can stack far more weapon damage using heavy armor than using medium. 5 fury or 5 seven legion + 5 truth beats any combination of medium armor sets out there while being tanky and have good healing.
most offensive sets are heavy armor because it was basically garbage for a very long time, garbage to the point nobody but hardcore pve tanks used it, then one day zos promised the players to make heavy armor fighters viable in PvP, so these sets were the bandaid fix from that times.
Whats funny is that nobody used those sets over black rose, which is nerfed into oblivion now, I don't want to see the same trend with other heavy armor sets because zos already removed wrath.
Me neither. Heavy armor is doing fine. It´s just that medium armor is just weak and lackluster in comparison to Light armor and heavy armor.
Give penetration or maybe a max stam buff to medium armor to help in the damage. Right now my heavy and light armor toons have much more offensive potential than my medium ones.
as I said, they can buff medium armor after nightblade gets their deserved nerfs.
Otherwise just don't even bother. If medium is gonna be meta but its still gonna stay as a nightblade exclusive, whats the point?Edited by Ragnarock41 on February 26, 2018 4:08PM0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Elevenstorm wrote: »What about a passive that allows more damage to go through blocking opponents...
Blocking is the only real advantage a stamina heavy armor build has when playing against a dodge roll spammer.
And even when you blockcast like crazy there are bleeds that ignore resistances or block.0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭The best damage dealing stam players already play medium for a reason.felipenepub17_ESO wrote: »1) Medium armor damage should be compatible with the Light armor damage. It just does not make sense that medium armor give less damage than light armor through passives. Light armor builds have more damage because of spell penetration and have strong shields and healing.
2) Why are the most offensive sets heavy armor? You can stack far more weapon damage using heavy armor than using medium. 5 fury or 5 seven legion + 5 truth beats any combination of medium armor sets out there while being tanky and have good healing.
Keep in mind penetration is worthless (for the most part)against any shield user. So the argument can be made that the overall buff to ALL damage that medium provides is more effective than the larger buff light armor penetration provides to a sub group in pvp.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »The best damage dealing stam players already play medium for a reason.felipenepub17_ESO wrote: »1) Medium armor damage should be compatible with the Light armor damage. It just does not make sense that medium armor give less damage than light armor through passives. Light armor builds have more damage because of spell penetration and have strong shields and healing.
2) Why are the most offensive sets heavy armor? You can stack far more weapon damage using heavy armor than using medium. 5 fury or 5 seven legion + 5 truth beats any combination of medium armor sets out there while being tanky and have good healing.
Keep in mind penetration is worthless (for the most part)against any shield user. So the argument can be made that the overall buff to ALL damage that medium provides is more effective than the larger buff light armor penetration provides to a sub group in pvp.
Sure thing but keep in mind that most medium armor users don't run around with shields these days.0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »The best damage dealing stam players already play medium for a reason.felipenepub17_ESO wrote: »1) Medium armor damage should be compatible with the Light armor damage. It just does not make sense that medium armor give less damage than light armor through passives. Light armor builds have more damage because of spell penetration and have strong shields and healing.
2) Why are the most offensive sets heavy armor? You can stack far more weapon damage using heavy armor than using medium. 5 fury or 5 seven legion + 5 truth beats any combination of medium armor sets out there while being tanky and have good healing.
Keep in mind penetration is worthless (for the most part)against any shield user. So the argument can be made that the overall buff to ALL damage that medium provides is more effective than the larger buff light armor penetration provides to a sub group in pvp.
Sure thing but keep in mind that most medium armor users don't run around with shields these days.
Also keeping in mind most stamina builds already pack enough punch to burst down shields, and once they go down increased phys pen is deadly. And still great agaisnt heavy.Edited by Vapirko on February 26, 2018 5:32PM0 -
del9✭✭✭✭I don't get why so many suggestions for damage mit? Just wear HA. If any changes to passive, they should buff damage. A penetration bonus wouldn't even effect healing, and would bring it closer to LA damage. But I wouldn't touch any of the passives.
What we really need are better set options.PCNA2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Counter Argument, ZoS made certain debuffs on abilities dodgeable. The snare effect on sweeps, while the DMG is undodgable, the snare effect is not.
"Attacks that can be dodged, but not blocked:
- Secondary effects that penetrate Block such as the Damage over Time from Sunfire, the surprise attack armor debuff, or the snare from Low Slash snare.
- Note: Block continues to provide stun immunity, so it will stop a secondary effect like the stun from Stonefist."
And with certain abilities being changed to be dodgeable and buffs to block if you don't use heavy block cost reduction, MA arguably received a few buffs.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Hurika✭✭✭✭Maybe a passive that: A small portion of your damage ignores block (2-3% per piece of medium armor equipped).
But honestly the problem isn't MA so much as it's the damage done by HA. MA vs LA seems balanced aside from a few minor tweaks. But HA builds that take little/no damage but dish out tons of damage are the problem. When MA attacks a HA and hits for 800-900 and gets hit back for 5000-6000 that's the problem. They SHOULD balance out. Glass cannon vs HA tank - should both hit each other for very little as they are exact opposite end of the spectrum.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Maybe a passive that: A small portion of your damage ignores block (2-3% per piece of medium armor equipped).
But honestly the problem isn't MA so much as it's the damage done by HA. MA vs LA seems balanced aside from a few minor tweaks. But HA builds that take little/no damage but dish out tons of damage are the problem. When MA attacks a HA and hits for 800-900 and gets hit back for 5000-6000 that's the problem. They SHOULD balance out. Glass cannon vs HA tank - should both hit each other for very little as they are exact opposite end of the spectrum.
Didn’t they just nerf wrath stacks?0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Maybe a passive that: A small portion of your damage ignores block (2-3% per piece of medium armor equipped).
But honestly the problem isn't MA so much as it's the damage done by HA. MA vs LA seems balanced aside from a few minor tweaks. But HA builds that take little/no damage but dish out tons of damage are the problem. When MA attacks a HA and hits for 800-900 and gets hit back for 5000-6000 that's the problem. They SHOULD balance out. Glass cannon vs HA tank - should both hit each other for very little as they are exact opposite end of the spectrum.
If you're MA and hitting people for 800-900 your build sucks, and probably you suck too.
If you're gonna pull out the ''muh permablock'' cart let me remind you argonian Dks with medium brass are actually better block bots than heavy armor setups.Edited by Ragnarock41 on February 26, 2018 10:53PM0 -
TheMystid✭✭✭New or reworked medium armor sets that give raw weapon damage.
Passive crit resist.
Edited by TheMystid on February 26, 2018 11:08PMPC EU
Nostalgic StamDk0 -
Hurika✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Maybe a passive that: A small portion of your damage ignores block (2-3% per piece of medium armor equipped).
But honestly the problem isn't MA so much as it's the damage done by HA. MA vs LA seems balanced aside from a few minor tweaks. But HA builds that take little/no damage but dish out tons of damage are the problem. When MA attacks a HA and hits for 800-900 and gets hit back for 5000-6000 that's the problem. They SHOULD balance out. Glass cannon vs HA tank - should both hit each other for very little as they are exact opposite end of the spectrum.
If you're MA and hitting people for 800-900 your build sucks, and probably you suck too.
If you're gonna pull out the ''muh permablock'' cart let me remind you argonian Dks with medium brass are actually better block bots than heavy armor setups.
Maybe a bit of an exaggeration but if you can't figure out how incredibly easy it is to build a class that can soak up damage with HA and still dish out a ton of damage, I think maybe your a bit out of touch with reality. That or likely downplaying how easy it is - protect what benefits you possibly.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Maybe a passive that: A small portion of your damage ignores block (2-3% per piece of medium armor equipped).
But honestly the problem isn't MA so much as it's the damage done by HA. MA vs LA seems balanced aside from a few minor tweaks. But HA builds that take little/no damage but dish out tons of damage are the problem. When MA attacks a HA and hits for 800-900 and gets hit back for 5000-6000 that's the problem. They SHOULD balance out. Glass cannon vs HA tank - should both hit each other for very little as they are exact opposite end of the spectrum.
If you're MA and hitting people for 800-900 your build sucks, and probably you suck too.
If you're gonna pull out the ''muh permablock'' cart let me remind you argonian Dks with medium brass are actually better block bots than heavy armor setups.
Maybe a bit of an exaggeration but if you can't figure out how incredibly easy it is to build a class that can soak up damage with HA and still dish out a ton of damage, I think maybe your a bit out of touch with reality. That or likely downplaying how easy it is - protect what benefits you possibly.
What makes you think you can't do the same with medium armor?
Seriously this game is not all about numbers, medium armor has INSANE mobility, and sets like f.brass / impreg allows you to be tanky while being mobile. and debuffs like maim and buffs like protection etc all scale much efficiently when you have actually lower resistance stats, which is a huge benefit for medium.Edited by Ragnarock41 on February 26, 2018 11:42PM0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maybe a passive that: A small portion of your damage ignores block (2-3% per piece of medium armor equipped).
But honestly the problem isn't MA so much as it's the damage done by HA. MA vs LA seems balanced aside from a few minor tweaks. But HA builds that take little/no damage but dish out tons of damage are the problem. When MA attacks a HA and hits for 800-900 and gets hit back for 5000-6000 that's the problem. They SHOULD balance out. Glass cannon vs HA tank - should both hit each other for very little as they are exact opposite end of the spectrum.
Didn’t they just nerf wrath stacks?
Yes, but that 200 weapon damage never was the problem when so many good sets (Ravager, Fury, 7th) that give 600ish still exist. It was a lazy change. The sets are the issue, not HA per se.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
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Are you just completely daft or what? OP said the passive willjust be moved into legerdemain, i.e. you will still get access to it. I don't know if you realize it, but his suggestion is making all medium armor users more powerful....dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i need my sneak passives that medium armor gives me in pvp, just because YOU dont like it nor use it does not mean it should be removed.
please stop trying to take that away.
Holy *** did you even read the post or are you just trolling.
yes, i read it before i commented.
please stop trying to change the medium armor passives.
Well if you read it then you didn’t comprehend it well. For you stealthers nothing would change. Your passive would simply be under ledgerdmain which you should have anyway if you like sneaking and thieving.
you do not like medium armor the way it is.
i do.
please leave medium armor alone.
The inability to read and comprehend posts with some people is just astonishing.2 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Maybe a passive that: A small portion of your damage ignores block (2-3% per piece of medium armor equipped).
But honestly the problem isn't MA so much as it's the damage done by HA. MA vs LA seems balanced aside from a few minor tweaks. But HA builds that take little/no damage but dish out tons of damage are the problem. When MA attacks a HA and hits for 800-900 and gets hit back for 5000-6000 that's the problem. They SHOULD balance out. Glass cannon vs HA tank - should both hit each other for very little as they are exact opposite end of the spectrum.
Can we not nerf heavy damage further. My MagDK has no access to fury/ravager or the like for extra damage, so felt wrath changes hard.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Even though steps were taken to shift the heavy armor meta it really hasn’t worked all that well. In terms of stats in heavy vs medium, you’re really not giving up much in heavy just a little crit and some wpn damage but overall heavy is still better in general. It’s definitely closer now than it was a few patches ago, but medium could still use a slight boost to bring it up to speed. IMO there is a pretty easy solution and that is to alter the useless sneak reduction passive. Now before all you sneaky people fly off the handle, there is already a sneak cost reduction in the ledgerdmain and it would make far more sense to add in the reduced radius detection there as well and alter the passive as needed so all the thieves can go on with their lives. Now, some ideas for replacing the Improved Sneak passive in medium armor: dot reduction, aoe mitigation, increased phys pen, increased phy resists etc. I’m sure others can come up with more useful or creative ideas. Heavy and light both have five passives that are fully viable all the time. Sneaking is viable only in niche PvE settings and for NBs but as I’ve mentioned it makes more sense to have the legerdemain passive altered. Medium needs to step up and be the premier damage type armor for stamina builds.
Edit: and no heavy does not need a nerf in case you decide to read into my post too far.
all the thieves can already go with medium....... easy solutions are mostly not the best!
medium makes sense if you need stamreg and many more cases en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Medium_Armor
but while stamina has no love by ZOS we see less and less more stam users around, and that already for a long time now
making medium armour more viable is not done by removing the stealth skill, it is done by getting a little more love from the devs! Medium and stamina along was killed by @ZOS
they made this decision very clear and go for it without hesitation
my Stambuilds are happy with the use of medium armour, because they need the passives, while you give up tons of DPS while you wear heavy instead of medium armour!
and just while ppl want to be more "Tanky" now, and run heavy, they die harder yes, but they don´t bring any DPS to any grp!
If you are stamina user and you go for DPS, you can only go there wearing medium armour, simple as it is!1
