Does block cost need to be nerfed a bit more? Permablocking is still a problem.

StaticWave

I think a good solution to prevent permablocking builds is by introducing a cooldown timer when you block. Let's say you can only hold block for x amount of seconds, then there's x amount of seconds where you cannot use block. This will make blocking a strategic option instead of having it be the main component of a build. Another solution would be to make blocking drain your stamina after x seconds, but reduces the cost of blocking. This will make players who permablock think twice about holding that right mouse button 24/7, while still allowing them to strategically block an opponent's attack.

pelle412

Don't mess more with PvE blocking. Try tanking 5+ vAA axes. A DK can sustain that but other classes have a harder time sustaining stamina and you can't do a heavy attack willy nilly or you'll get knocked to the ground in an instant and the axes walk off in search of something more fun to do. You can really only heavy attack during shield wall ulti. If PvP blocking is a problem, fix it for PvP only.

Mazbt

The block cost isn't the problem if people are still perma blocking in pvp even after the nerf.

xaraan

No, it's over nerfed as it is. I hate to say it, but L2P. Even before the block cost changes a good player could drain my stam out pretty fast in a fight. If you are having problems at this point, it's on your end.

Jura23

StaticWave wrote: »

I think a good solution to prevent permablocking builds is by introducing a cooldown timer when you block. Let's say you can only hold block for x amount of seconds, then there's x amount of seconds where you cannot use block. This will make blocking a strategic option instead of having it be the main component of a build. Another solution would be to make blocking drain your stamina after x seconds, but reduces the cost of blocking. This will make players who permablock think twice about holding that right mouse button 24/7, while still allowing them to strategically block an opponent's attack.

After this, we might as well start looking for a solution to prevent ppl from spamming skills.

Mister_DMC

Just get rid of PvP

techprince

Knowledge wrote: »

Even after the changes to blocking in Dragon Bones the block cost at full reduction is around 385 or so. That is still a very cheap block cost that doesn't reward challenging and immersive game play. I believe blocking should be "split second reaction" type game play. In titles like TERA we saw a second resource used for blocking and most of the blocking done by the preferred tank (Lander) required split-second reactions in order to maintain this resource and DPS + Threat.

Tanks have it far too easy in PVP and PVE. They can practically STILL hold block almost indefinitely whilst the other players have to do a lot of actual strategic work to remain alive.

In closing I would also like to address health pools. There should be diminishing returns or even a maximum health pool a player can have to prevent ignoring mechanics. These limits or diminishing returns should begin at different amounts depending on if you are a Tank, Healer, or DPS.

First of all, its Lancer, not Lander. Lancer can get his resource back by AOE taunting enemies even while holding the block.
You are dead wrong about "tanks have it far too easy in PvP and PvE". I dont believe you ever played a tank.

And why diminishing returns for HP only? lets start with your precious stamina and magicka first.

Enslaved

Oh, no! Op and his zerglings still cant one shot tanks! Better call 1-800-000-L2P

Robvenom

OPs name is ironic.

Banana

No.

Princess_Ciri

nah lets just remove block from the game.


also remove all abilities. and weapons. and gear. this is all for elitists.

if u cant win a duel naked by punching someone then too bad. also werewolves are bis in naked fistfights now.

munster1404

Mister_DMC wrote: »

Just get rid of PvP

Definitely. It's the most curated activity, requires constant babysitting. When resources can be better spent elsewhere.

ak_pvp

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

nah lets just remove block from the game.


also remove all abilities. and weapons. and gear. this is all for elitists.

if u cant win a duel naked by punching someone then too bad. also werewolves are bis in naked fistfights now.

FFS your obviously a khajiit main wanting OP damage.

NoMoreChillies

This guy wants to nerf blocking tanks
next
he will cry there are no tanks to run dungeons so he can get his monster helm

D0PAMINE

I love how he makes threads then never returns. What a troll.

Ep1kMalware

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

My main is a tank that is far from a normal build. She is a Templar that with tri stat food, rolls about 44k health, 24k stamina and 17k magicka. I have obviously not stacked all her resources into a single stat. I only block heavy attacks and interrupt special attacks if I can. The rest of the time I try to control the fight, buff the group, provide off healing and if there is time try to add damage to build ultimate so I can keep warhorn up. Just too busy to permablock.

You can do every single one of the things you've mentionned while holding block

For how long? Almost every skill I have slotted while tanking is a stamina skill. I don't run only with groups that do 100k DPS. Most Boss fights I have experienced take longer than 15 seconds. What good is a tank that can't taunt because they are out of stamina?

if you can't manage your resources that falls on you. Perhaps you shouldn't block through the entire fight?

Templar tanks, like nightblades, really have no source of reliable resource management. All these block cost increases we've seen over the past year have hit them harder than any other class for tanking. Nightblade lost stamina return on siphoning attacks and Templars can't sustain without corpses.

lol I have a 50 templar(CP 500) tank and yeah you can easily manage your stam if you do more than block during a fight.

And somefights you die instantly no *** given if you let off that button.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

Exactly as predicted: More cries for nerfs for blocking. Go play another game.

Ep1kMalware

block timers would fail instantly in pve. Actually, there wouldn't be a pve...

StaticWave

Jura23 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I think a good solution to prevent permablocking builds is by introducing a cooldown timer when you block. Let's say you can only hold block for x amount of seconds, then there's x amount of seconds where you cannot use block. This will make blocking a strategic option instead of having it be the main component of a build. Another solution would be to make blocking drain your stamina after x seconds, but reduces the cost of blocking. This will make players who permablock think twice about holding that right mouse button 24/7, while still allowing them to strategically block an opponent's attack.

After this, we might as well start looking for a solution to prevent ppl from spamming skills.

Spamming a skill costs resources. blocking only costs resources if you are hit. With all the block cost reduction you can hold block for days.

StaticWave

munster1404 wrote: »

Mister_DMC wrote: »

Just get rid of PvP

Definitely. It's the most curated activity, requires constant babysitting. When resources can be better spent elsewhere.

Mister_DMC wrote: »

Just get rid of PvP

If you didnt' notice, PvE gets more updates than PvP.

Lynx7386

StaticWave wrote: »

I think a good solution to prevent permablocking builds is by introducing a cooldown timer when you block. Let's say you can only hold block for x amount of seconds, then there's x amount of seconds where you cannot use block. This will make blocking a strategic option instead of having it be the main component of a build. Another solution would be to make blocking drain your stamina after x seconds, but reduces the cost of blocking. This will make players who permablock think twice about holding that right mouse button 24/7, while still allowing them to strategically block an opponent's attack.

Another moronic idea from someone who has never had to tank any serious content. Please don't make suggestions when you don't have the experience to know what the hell you're talking about.

Can't even imagine trying to rank axes with either of those changes.

StaticWave wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I think a good solution to prevent permablocking builds is by introducing a cooldown timer when you block. Let's say you can only hold block for x amount of seconds, then there's x amount of seconds where you cannot use block. This will make blocking a strategic option instead of having it be the main component of a build. Another solution would be to make blocking drain your stamina after x seconds, but reduces the cost of blocking. This will make players who permablock think twice about holding that right mouse button 24/7, while still allowing them to strategically block an opponent's attack.

After this, we might as well start looking for a solution to prevent ppl from spamming skills.

Spamming a skill costs resources. blocking only costs resources if you are hit. With all the block cost reduction you can hold block for days.

Blocking halts stamina recovery, lowers movement speed, prevents casting any non instant abilities, and prevents you from using light or heavy attacks.

Again, moronic ideas from people who don't know what they're talking about.

Ep1kMalware

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

This guy wants to nerf blocking tanks
next
he will cry there are no tanks to run dungeons so he can get his monster helm

There's already a ton of peopke doing that xD oh well, guess he'll have go go pick 100k worth of ancestor silk and wait 5 months for his desired helmet to be available in cyrodiil...

ak_pvp

Do bads not know how to use dots/bleeds/unblockables?

Alagras

Can t believe the amount of hate and insult the op gets for expressing his opinion.

Now granted I disagree too with his suggestion. But I share with him a conviction: blocking should require more timing, having a nap on a "cut dmg by half" button should never have been a thing in the first place.

But changing it now would be so very tricky. Only solution I could see would be to replace the stam cost of each hit by a block fatigue mechanic. But each hit would only cost health, no more stamina.

But even that I don t wish for. Mostly because the moment you get the hit is never the moment the animations show it. So no tweak can do the trick, it would take an overhaul. And it could only be part of a larger combat animations over

Maulkin

Alagras wrote: »

Can t believe the amount of hate and insult the op gets for expressing his opinion.

He is not getting enough of either (hate and insults). Needs more.

He is a troll, he repeatedly creates nerf threads and then never posts in them again. [extreme profanity] like him is what’s wrong with the forums.

ak_pvp

Maulkin wrote: »

Alagras wrote: »

Can t believe the amount of hate and insult the op gets for expressing his opinion.

He is not getting enough of either (hate and insults). Needs more.

He is a troll, he repeatedly creates nerf threads and then never posts in them again. [extreme profanity] like him is what’s wrong with the forums.

I figured as much. He says controversial topics, like the NB one, the ESO+ onlyu forum one and buying CP, and lets the thread devolve into a flame war as he never clarifies.

Ep1kMalware

Alagras wrote: »

Can t believe the amount of hate and insult the op gets for expressing his opinion.

Now granted I disagree too with his suggestion. But I share with him a conviction: blocking should require more timing, having a nap on a "cut dmg by half" button should never have been a thing in the first place.

But changing it now would be so very tricky. Only solution I could see would be to replace the stam cost of each hit by a block fatigue mechanic. But each hit would only cost health, no more stamina.

But even that I don t wish for. Mostly because the moment you get the hit is never the moment the animations show it. So no tweak can do the trick, it would take an overhaul. And it could only be part of a larger combat animations over

all op does is post nerf threads. I think he's getting what's comming to him. These nerf threads are cancer and it's great to see people starting to defend sensible gameplay.

SirCritical

Trololol

Can't believe this guy

Nerftrain should be stopped immediately. Give thus guy 1k bonus dmg and 10k bonus HP; I won't ever meet him anywhere

Ragnaroek93

I think block is fine now. You can't nerf block into the ground because it's the only defense which stand your ground classes/builds actually have (sure, they have strong healing too but that only helps against single opponents - block is the only thing which gives them decent protection against several opponents hitting them).

StaticWave

Lynx7386 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I think a good solution to prevent permablocking builds is by introducing a cooldown timer when you block. Let's say you can only hold block for x amount of seconds, then there's x amount of seconds where you cannot use block. This will make blocking a strategic option instead of having it be the main component of a build. Another solution would be to make blocking drain your stamina after x seconds, but reduces the cost of blocking. This will make players who permablock think twice about holding that right mouse button 24/7, while still allowing them to strategically block an opponent's attack.

Another moronic idea from someone who has never had to tank any serious content. Please don't make suggestions when you don't have the experience to know what the hell you're talking about.

Can't even imagine trying to rank axes with either of those changes.

StaticWave wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I think a good solution to prevent permablocking builds is by introducing a cooldown timer when you block. Let's say you can only hold block for x amount of seconds, then there's x amount of seconds where you cannot use block. This will make blocking a strategic option instead of having it be the main component of a build. Another solution would be to make blocking drain your stamina after x seconds, but reduces the cost of blocking. This will make players who permablock think twice about holding that right mouse button 24/7, while still allowing them to strategically block an opponent's attack.

After this, we might as well start looking for a solution to prevent ppl from spamming skills.

Spamming a skill costs resources. blocking only costs resources if you are hit. With all the block cost reduction you can hold block for days.

Blocking halts stamina recovery, lowers movement speed, prevents casting any non instant abilities, and prevents you from using light or heavy attacks.

Again, moronic ideas from people who don't know what they're talking about.

You're talking from a PvE standpoint, whereas I'm talking from a PvP standpoint, where I'm more than qualified to give suggestions. Your quick assumption about my knowledge of the game when you don't know where I'm coming from is nothing short of idiotic.

It seems that you still don't see the problem that perma blocking causes, especially in PvP. Let me enlighten you.

1/ Blocking prevents resource gains from heavy attacks. If you fight a magicka class that permablocks, you will run out of resources quickly.
2/Certain classes can have their entire stamina bar dedicated to holding block while they dish out dps. This isn't skill, period.
3/ DPS builds that rely on blocking as a defensive mechanism, like magplar or magdk, is very strong in the hands of good players. There's little counter to permablocking, especially when good players can simply stack cp into block cost reduction and a few block reduction glyphs, while still maintaining high dmg through dots and set procs. Simply "wearing them down or ccing them every 5 seconds" is a stupid advice because good players will break free in less than a second, or put out more pressure than you can thereby forcing you to be on the defense. They take less damage while blocking, so they don't have to worry about being defensive. Certain classes and builds won't be able to fight a permablocking build, such as stamplar/magplars who don't have a cc that goes through block, or dizzy/snb builds. This leads to them using builds such as duelwield bleed procs to counter permablocking, which in turn reduces the diversity of build options. Block casting BoL is also super strong on a magplar.