XP Exploit Poll

DieAlteHexe

nryerson1025 wrote: »

They ARE letting people cheat--they let the bot farmers farm every day!

And as businesses go, 80% of your profits typically come from 20% of your business. I wonder how many or what percentage are under suspension right now.

All I'm trying to say is if they want to stop cheating, then stop cheating! Make the lag hackers in cyrodiil go away and stop the bot farmers and gold selling! Don't suspend people who got caught up in something that originated in the programming

I'm getting kind of cranky about this excuse of "they just got caught up in a bug". Well, yes there was a nasty bug BUT that is not what they got "caught up in". They chose to USE that bug to gain, which is a very good definition of exploiting. Did you read the statement from ZMax about this? Note the word "undoubtedly".

As to the numbers, as I said before I seriously doubt that 276 people, assuming all get banned, is but a small, very small, drop in the bucket.

nryerson1025

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Ydrisselle

nryerson1025 wrote: »

Maybe THIS department should be reduced and the people working on code made better!

Well, normally they are answering the bug reports and support requests, so firing them would make the game experience worse

nryerson1025

Nvm I will stop. Just trying to say priorities don't seem in order. If you want to disagree, go right ahead and continue to play your laggy game

PlagueSD

Lucifers_Pain wrote: »

If a player is already max cp and all skills are leveled is it still considered a exploit?
I'm talking right now today. Not what might happen in the future when cp is increased.

If yes then how is it different from running through lava to bypass mobs and bosses in a dungeon?

ok, first let's define "exploit"

exploit - verb

1. to utilize, especially for profit; turn to practical account:
   to exploit a business opportunity.
2. to use selfishly for one's own ends:
   employers who exploit their workers.
3. to advance or further through exploitation; promote:
   He exploited his new movie through a series of guest appearances.

"to exploit" is to achieve an advantage or gain a profit. Gaining extra XP that you're not supposed to is an exploit. Bypassing mobs is not. You're not "gaining" anything extra by doing that.

DieAlteHexe

nryerson1025 wrote: »

Nvm I will stop. Just trying to say priorities don't seem in order. If you want to disagree, go right ahead and continue to play your laggy game

Why thank you! I think I will except my game isn't laggy.

Ep1kMalware

Zos has known about bypassing mobs for a while, and tbfh I think they've been allowing it on purpose since shadows of the hist. For coa2 they could increase the lava damage ame make it not purgable. I think they allow it to both appease casuals and to add an interesting element for nodeath challenges. But bypassing mobs excludes you from the achieve,ents, which can net you cool titles and a crapload of exp.

As for the exp glitch, definitely an exploit, although I donot think it should be a permaban. What good is exploiting cp you can't use for another year+++ anyway.. I mean srsly.

JJBoomer

Can we please have a lock on this thread? It's going no where fast @ZOS_RyanM

Ep1kMalware

My question is why the f is zos banning people for exploiting cp that can't be used, and not banning people exploiting dlc dungeons with leorics crown to farm motifs. At least banning the latter you are banning people who are actually using an exploit to farm valuable items and can be used to gain an unfair advantage over people.

In the case of exp cheating your biggest cheaters ate probably console players finally able to migrate toward pc. In either event, both should be banned, but why one and not the other?

Elsonso

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

My question is why the f is zos banning people for exploiting cp that can't be used, and not banning people exploiting dlc dungeons with leorics crown to farm motifs. At least banning the latter you are banning people who are actually using an exploit to farm valuable items and can be used to gain an unfair advantage over people.

They do need to be more aggressive about rooting out people who are cheating and exploiting bugs in the game. I am not in favor of bans, outside of chronic repeat offenders, which is why I like the suspension direction that they went with for the massive XP exploit.

VaranisArano

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

My question is why the f is zos banning people for exploiting cp that can't be used, and not banning people exploiting dlc dungeons with leorics crown to farm motifs. At least banning the latter you are banning people who are actually using an exploit to farm valuable items and can be used to gain an unfair advantage over people.

In the case of exp cheating your biggest cheaters ate probably console players finally able to migrate toward pc. In either event, both should be banned, but why one and not the other?

Hey, just a reminder that the Code of Conduct specifically says it does not matter if an unfair advantage is gain through a bug or not, we still agree not to exploit it.

Trying to argue levels of unfair advantage is pointless, because exploiting a bug is against the TOS and COC regardless of whether or not it gave an unfair advantage.

VaranisArano

nryerson1025 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

nryerson1025 wrote: »

yes they have a right to do it. but can we go over strategy here for a second? what is the motivation behind the "guilty until proven innocent" sweeping suspension? isrevenue or userbase even being considered? i don't know, if a company doesnt want me after i've spent 4200 hours on their game in the past two years, maybe i dont want them. I've spent the past week playing other MMOs, something i'd think most suspended players are doing during this time. are they actively baiting and cleaning up the subscriber base? what is this company thinking?

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand the argument you are making here.


You seem to be arguing that your hours of gameplay or possibility of you picking up another game should cause ZOS to be cautious about dealing with exploits and people breaking the TOS. What?

.

Not just me, but everyone. What Zenimax does, is a business...modeled on making money. You don't seem to get that. This is the real world. Is ZoS so cozy with their growth and retention that they don't have to be concerned about this?

Its a business, sure. A business who permabanned experienced players for exploiting the Asylum trial and recently account banned a popular streamer for gold-selling.

Its a business who just gave out a 2-week suspension to 276 players who gained significant amounts of exp in IC because they:

1. Decided to deliberately exploit the bugged exp (Breaking TOS and COC)
2. Didn't report the bugged exp when they noticed it (breaking TOS and COC)
3. Had addons preventing them from seeing the bugged exp (Breaking TOS and COC, albeit unknowlingly - take that up in appeal with ZOS, who is not responsible for addon usage)
4. Didn't pay any attention to bugged exp gains (breaking TOS and COC, albeit unknowingly, - take that up in appeal with ZOS, but if it was over a long period of time, I'm not sure they'll buy that excuse.

So again, ZOS is a business. A business dealing with people who broke their Terms of Service and Code of Conduct. This time, there's a two week suspension and an appeals process for players who feel that they were wronged (mostly people claiming to be #3 and #4 who claim they didn't realize what was going on).

You ask: Is ZoS so cozy with their growth and retention that they don't have to be concerned about this?
I ask: Is ZOS so desperate for growth and retention that they should be concerned with players who broke the TOS and COC leaving?

I really doubt they are.

clocksstoppe

DDemon wrote: »

Lucifers_Pain wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

Exploiting is still exploiting whether or not it benefits the one exploiting.

If I stole something from a store that I didn't need, It would still be against the law.

Running through lava in a dungeon does not explicitly further your progression, nor does it necessarily prove intention, whereas, say, repeating the same dungeon to get specific rewards that were unintended would be more apt to be called an exploit because the intention is clear through the repetition, and the motive is clear because of the reward. Running through lava has no reward and I can't see a situation where you would run through it repeatedly to achieve something.

City of Ash II has a few spots that you can "skip" and its clearly not intended and is a benefit if your just trying to get the monster helm.

That's kinda like telling a nightblade he's exploiting if he uses cloak to get past the same NPC's. Not even limited to nightblades, some dungeons allow you to sneak past mobs to simply skip them, would that also be an exploit then?

I think people need to tone down this whole 'exploit' hunt, as it's getting ridiculous.

Invis isnt even a NB only mechanic, you can make potions for skipping mobs. Clearly skipping mobs by any means is a game mechanic otherwise they would never unaggro you

vamp_emily

I think ZOS wrongly suspended players. Just because someone "Grinded" stones don't mean they were aware of how much xp they were getting nor proves they were "exploiting".

When I go down to IC I do it for the stones not XP. I personally don't even look at my XP gains.

Cpt_Teemo

vamp_emily wrote: »

I think ZOS wrongly suspended players. Just because someone "Grinded" stones don't mean they were aware of how much xp they were getting nor proves they were "exploiting".

When I go down to IC I do it for the stones not XP. I personally don't even look at my XP gains.

If I was grinding down there and noticed I got one level per kill i would have jetted

vamp_emily

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

I think ZOS wrongly suspended players. Just because someone "Grinded" stones don't mean they were aware of how much xp they were getting nor proves they were "exploiting".

When I go down to IC I do it for the stones not XP. I personally don't even look at my XP gains.

If I was grinding down there and noticed I got one level per kill i would have jetted

I'm sure I would have too but we would have more than likely been suspended also.

I get it some people deserve to be suspended in this game but putting a bug in a program and then just suspending innocent players is wrong.

They obviously know who did it, and I think they should have just fixed the problem and then removed all that xp gain.

jordanmarx_ESO

Just to clarify. I have been given no reason to believe my 3 week vacation from eso is appealable to anyone.

Elsonso

vamp_emily wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

I think ZOS wrongly suspended players. Just because someone "Grinded" stones don't mean they were aware of how much xp they were getting nor proves they were "exploiting".

When I go down to IC I do it for the stones not XP. I personally don't even look at my XP gains.

If I was grinding down there and noticed I got one level per kill i would have jetted

I'm sure I would have too but we would have more than likely been suspended also.

I get it some people deserve to be suspended in this game but putting a bug in a program and then just suspending innocent players is wrong.

They obviously know who did it, and I think they should have just fixed the problem and then removed all that xp gain.

You're still missing the point that those accounts need to be cleaned, innocent or not, and the only way they can apparently do that is by suspending them.

jordanmarx_ESO

You're still missing the point that those accounts need to be cleaned, innocent or not, and the only way they can apparently do that is by suspending them.[/quote]

It would have been nice if they said, "we don't know who is guilty at this point, but we do need three weeks to follow up on this, we apologize for the inconvenience to those players who gained cp accidentially, as this is the only way to be sure that the appropriate accounts are banned, while the innocent players have their accounts cleaned of inadvertent cp gains." This I would have responded to a lot more amicably.

DieAlteHexe

jordanmarx_ESO wrote: »

Just to clarify. I have been given no reason to believe my 3 week vacation from eso is appealable to anyone.

Didn't the notification email that Emma posted in another (now closed) thread say that you could respond to it regarding the suspension? I could have sworn it did...

jordanmarx_ESO

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

jordanmarx_ESO wrote: »

Just to clarify. I have been given no reason to believe my 3 week vacation from eso is appealable to anyone.

Didn't the notification email that Emma posted in another (now closed) thread say that you could respond to it regarding the suspension? I could have sworn it did...

Oh you can respond, but then they respond with form letters. As Emma also clarified in recent posts. You get no hint that there is anyone that can expedite the vacation.

DieAlteHexe

jordanmarx_ESO wrote: »

Just to clarify. I have been given no reason to believe my 3 week vacation from eso is appealable to anyone.

Didn't the notification email that Emma posted in another (now closed) thread say that you could respond to it regarding the suspension? I could have sworn it did...

jordanmarx_ESO wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

jordanmarx_ESO wrote: »

Just to clarify. I have been given no reason to believe my 3 week vacation from eso is appealable to anyone.

Didn't the notification email that Emma posted in another (now closed) thread say that you could respond to it regarding the suspension? I could have sworn it did...

Oh you can respond, but then they respond with form letters. As Emma also clarified in recent posts. You get no hint that there is anyone that can expedite the vacation.

Ah, I see what you meant now. Sorry for being thick.

MMOs tend to play these things very close to the chest. Many wouldn't have even posted as they did here and just gone ahead with their internal investigations. Frustrating for those waiting on a resolution to be sure.

vamp_emily

lordrichter wrote: »

You're still missing the point that those accounts need to be cleaned, innocent or not, and the only way they can apparently do that is by suspending them.

I'm not missing any point. It don't take 3 freaking weeks to set back accounts. I'm sure their DBA's can do it in 15 minutes.

Ley

Lucifers_Pain wrote: »

Castiel_Boomer wrote: »

I would still consider it an exploit based upon the knowledge that they WILL increase the CP, so eventually you WILL benefit from your ill gained EXP. HOWEVER, with that being said, I believe it is completely ignorant to punish people in the fashion that ZOS chose. People that did it intentionally are one thing, but the people that didn't mean to exploit, and by those I am referring to people that run IC and the sewers DAILY, should NOT have been bundled in with those that took obvious advantage of the exploit. This is a grey area, sure, but if you received 1000 CP, or some other crazy number, then I would imagine they deserve a ban/time off. The people that reported it, or left soon after discovering it (i.e. only gained 40 or so CP extra) should be excluded from this ban. I was SHOCKED by the way in which ZOS handled this situation (and for the record, it has nothing to do directly with me). But to outright BAN people for YOUR OWN MISTAKES seems a bit ignorant at best. I mean, these are the very same people that PAY YOUR PAYCHECK! And this is how you treat them when it was YOUR OWN FAULT? Im bummed. All they NEEDED to do was roll back the accounts in question. end of story.

This is a valid point but I could just as easily say I WILL always stay above cap. Currently I still don't understand what was gained by gaining XP on a max toon with max skills.

Bragging rites.

jordanmarx_ESO

Honest question here people. Should people try to avoid the 2 player skyreach grind? Is this an exploit? If so, ZOS has left it alone for quite a few patches. Or is it not an exploit and if you have a buddy that can do it for you you luck out? Thanks for the feedback.

DoctorESO

Why does everything have to be about "punishment"?

DieAlteHexe

DoctorESO wrote: »

Why does everything have to be about "punishment"?

Everything...isn't but behaviour counter to CoC/ToS (rules, laws etc.) often is as method to give people pause before indulging in counterproductive/anti-societal behaviour.

Elsonso

vamp_emily wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

You're still missing the point that those accounts need to be cleaned, innocent or not, and the only way they can apparently do that is by suspending them.

I'm not missing any point. It don't take 3 freaking weeks to set back accounts. I'm sure their DBA's can do it in 15 minutes.

So, it is three weeks now. Good to know. I had not heard that they extended it.

VaranisArano

lordrichter wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

You're still missing the point that those accounts need to be cleaned, innocent or not, and the only way they can apparently do that is by suspending them.

I'm not missing any point. It don't take 3 freaking weeks to set back accounts. I'm sure their DBA's can do it in 15 minutes.

So, it is three weeks now. Good to know. I had not heard that they extended it.

In checking the Dev Tracker, they haven't. As far as the Devs have announced, the suspensions are until the morning of March 5th, so *checks calendar* that's a 2 week suspension.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/396731/suspensions-for-update-17-xp-exploit/p1

Unless you have actual information to the contrary, of course.

VaranisArano

jordanmarx_ESO wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

jordanmarx_ESO wrote: »

Just to clarify. I have been given no reason to believe my 3 week vacation from eso is appealable to anyone.

Didn't the notification email that Emma posted in another (now closed) thread say that you could respond to it regarding the suspension? I could have sworn it did...

Oh you can respond, but then they respond with form letters. As Emma also clarified in recent posts. You get no hint that there is anyone that can expedite the vacation.

I've never had to deal with appealing a suspension, but I've had to escalate several "Ask for Help" requests, where continuing to respond to those form letters eventually got me in contact with an actual person who could offer help. I'm sure its frustrating and I do wish they were more responsive for those of you trying to appeal.