Taleof2Cities wrote: »Look! Another choose your own passives thread!
In most modern MMORPGs your race doesn't impact your character as much as it does in ESO. A lot of people want to play other races at high levels of gameplay which would otherwise reduce their effectiveness. Altmer a the best magicka race and Redguard the best stam race. However, both of those races have warriors of other types.
In an effort to allow more diversity for multiple class types and races I propose that each race has a starting template to choose from. These templates would be unique to the race but allow the race to perform other roles efficiently at high levels of play. For example, you currently have the Altmer passives for magicka and there would then be an alternative starting templar which would again be unique to them. Perhaps it would increase Stamina by 10% and reduce stamina cost by 3% with the third passive allowing 1% stamina recovery while blocking.
This is just a loose example but essentially my idea is to have two unique templates for each race only selectable at character creation. One for Magicka and one for Stamina oriented classes.
In most modern MMORPGs your race doesn't impact your character as much as it does in ESO. A lot of people want to play other races at high levels of gameplay which would otherwise reduce their effectiveness. Altmer a the best magicka race and Redguard the best stam race. However, both of those races have warriors of other types.
In an effort to allow more diversity for multiple class types and races I propose that each race has a starting template to choose from. These templates would be unique to the race but allow the race to perform other roles efficiently at high levels of play. For example, you currently have the Altmer passives for magicka and there would then be an alternative starting templar which would again be unique to them. Perhaps it would increase Stamina by 10% and reduce stamina cost by 3% with the third passive allowing 1% stamina recovery while blocking.
This is just a loose example but essentially my idea is to have two unique templates for each race only selectable at character creation. One for Magicka and one for Stamina oriented classes.
umm, race really doesn't impact your build much in this game either...its a matter of single digit percentage points. I mean, if you actually chose your own passives, many races would never even be played.
If you ever do Veteran trials and say something like this while playing an unoptimal race/class combo you will be kicked from the raid. It happens a lot.
In most modern MMORPGs your race doesn't impact your character as much as it does in ESO. A lot of people want to play other races at high levels of gameplay which would otherwise reduce their effectiveness. Altmer a the best magicka race and Redguard the best stam race. However, both of those races have warriors of other types.
In an effort to allow more diversity for multiple class types and races I propose that each race has a starting template to choose from. These templates would be unique to the race but allow the race to perform other roles efficiently at high levels of play. For example, you currently have the Altmer passives for magicka and there would then be an alternative starting templar which would again be unique to them. Perhaps it would increase Stamina by 10% and reduce stamina cost by 3% with the third passive allowing 1% stamina recovery while blocking.
This is just a loose example but essentially my idea is to have two unique templates for each race only selectable at character creation. One for Magicka and one for Stamina oriented classes.
umm, race really doesn't impact your build much in this game either...its a matter of single digit percentage points. I mean, if you actually chose your own passives, many races would never even be played.
If you ever do Veteran trials and say something like this while playing an unoptimal race/class combo you will be kicked from the raid. It happens a lot.
1. It really doesn’t matter what other major MMORPGs are doing. There is a reason we are playing this game and not those games. It’s very good for MMORPGs to do things differently from each other and race passives threads like this don’t get the support to indicate the player base has issues with them.
Second, Zos considered race change would newly change passives to that of another race and not the appearance. Clearly they changed their mind and kept race passives tied to the appearance of the race.
HatchetHaro wrote: »To be honest, anything that decreases the dps gap between "optimal" and non-"optimal" races would be a welcome change, at least to me.
I play solely Argonians and have always feel gimped in terms of damage, and it actually makes me sad that my favourite race is not considered viable for score pushing trials even though I have repeatedly proven that to be false. I've faced the ridicule of a few elitists who called my racial choice "a waste of skill", and it pisses me off.
The current implementation of racial passives is just plain bad. The dps gap is too wide. I'd welcome any solution to narrow that down.
No, lore is important and some races are better at some things than others
In most modern MMORPGs your race doesn't impact your character as much as it does in ESO. A lot of people want to play other races at high levels of gameplay which would otherwise reduce their effectiveness. Altmer a the best magicka race and Redguard the best stam race. However, both of those races have warriors of other types.
In an effort to allow more diversity for multiple class types and races I propose that each race has a starting template to choose from. These templates would be unique to the race but allow the race to perform other roles efficiently at high levels of play. For example, you currently have the Altmer passives for magicka and there would then be an alternative starting templar which would again be unique to them. Perhaps it would increase Stamina by 10% and reduce stamina cost by 3% with the third passive allowing 1% stamina recovery while blocking.
This is just a loose example but essentially my idea is to have two unique templates for each race only selectable at character creation. One for Magicka and one for Stamina oriented classes.
umm, race really doesn't impact your build much in this game either...its a matter of single digit percentage points. I mean, if you actually chose your own passives, many races would never even be played.
In most modern MMORPGs your race doesn't impact your character as much as it does in ESO. A lot of people want to play other races at high levels of gameplay which would otherwise reduce their effectiveness. Altmer a the best magicka race and Redguard the best stam race. However, both of those races have warriors of other types.
In an effort to allow more diversity for multiple class types and races I propose that each race has a starting template to choose from. These templates would be unique to the race but allow the race to perform other roles efficiently at high levels of play. For example, you currently have the Altmer passives for magicka and there would then be an alternative starting templar which would again be unique to them. Perhaps it would increase Stamina by 10% and reduce stamina cost by 3% with the third passive allowing 1% stamina recovery while blocking.
This is just a loose example but essentially my idea is to have two unique templates for each race only selectable at character creation. One for Magicka and one for Stamina oriented classes.
umm, race really doesn't impact your build much in this game either...its a matter of single digit percentage points. I mean, if you actually chose your own passives, many races would never even be played.
If you ever do Veteran trials and say something like this while playing an unoptimal race/class combo you will be kicked from the raid. It happens a lot.
While I can appreciate wanting some kind of equality or whatever when it comes to high level play, I actually like that my Imperial battlemage will never have the innate skill an Altmer will. Bretons shouldn't be better berserkers than Orcs. Argonians should not be sneakier than Khajiit. I like the inequalities. Makes it more interesting. You can still do any of that stuff with any (playable) race in Tamriel, but if you want the innate advantages of being better at a certain thing... well, you gotta go with the race that's been good at that thing for thousands of years.
Personally, I think equality is overrated anyway. Life isn't equal, and to force or pretend everyone should be equal in all ways at all times is asinine in my view. Celebrate and make the most of the differences.
"Equality is overrated!" -- Green for Emperor 2020!
Thunderknuckles wrote: »While I can appreciate wanting some kind of equality or whatever when it comes to high level play, I actually like that my Imperial battlemage will never have the innate skill an Altmer will. Bretons shouldn't be better berserkers than Orcs. Argonians should not be sneakier than Khajiit. I like the inequalities. Makes it more interesting. You can still do any of that stuff with any (playable) race in Tamriel, but if you want the innate advantages of being better at a certain thing... well, you gotta go with the race that's been good at that thing for thousands of years.
Personally, I think equality is overrated anyway. Life isn't equal, and to force or pretend everyone should be equal in all ways at all times is asinine in my view. Celebrate and make the most of the differences.
"Equality is overrated!" -- Green for Emperor 2020!
Except that YOUR character is not, by any means, the average of their race in the story. So the OP's suggestion is not unreasonable. YOUR/OUR characters are, story wise, legendary.
Thunderknuckles wrote: »While I can appreciate wanting some kind of equality or whatever when it comes to high level play, I actually like that my Imperial battlemage will never have the innate skill an Altmer will. Bretons shouldn't be better berserkers than Orcs. Argonians should not be sneakier than Khajiit. I like the inequalities. Makes it more interesting. You can still do any of that stuff with any (playable) race in Tamriel, but if you want the innate advantages of being better at a certain thing... well, you gotta go with the race that's been good at that thing for thousands of years.
Personally, I think equality is overrated anyway. Life isn't equal, and to force or pretend everyone should be equal in all ways at all times is asinine in my view. Celebrate and make the most of the differences.
"Equality is overrated!" -- Green for Emperor 2020!
Except that YOUR character is not, by any means, the average of their race in the story. So the OP's suggestion is not unreasonable. YOUR/OUR characters are, story wise, legendary.
VaranisArano wrote: »Thunderknuckles wrote: »While I can appreciate wanting some kind of equality or whatever when it comes to high level play, I actually like that my Imperial battlemage will never have the innate skill an Altmer will. Bretons shouldn't be better berserkers than Orcs. Argonians should not be sneakier than Khajiit. I like the inequalities. Makes it more interesting. You can still do any of that stuff with any (playable) race in Tamriel, but if you want the innate advantages of being better at a certain thing... well, you gotta go with the race that's been good at that thing for thousands of years.
Personally, I think equality is overrated anyway. Life isn't equal, and to force or pretend everyone should be equal in all ways at all times is asinine in my view. Celebrate and make the most of the differences.
"Equality is overrated!" -- Green for Emperor 2020!
Except that YOUR character is not, by any means, the average of their race in the story. So the OP's suggestion is not unreasonable. YOUR/OUR characters are, story wise, legendary.
In an RPG, your characters become legendary. In Oblivion, I could enchant gear that would allow my Breton to achieve the native fire resistance of a Dunmer or I could fortify my skill to match the base skill of a Redguard, but my Breton racial passives were what they were. In Skyrim, any magicka character can get to a high level of magicka to fuel their spells, but its the Altmer who get the biggest starting bonus.
If the root of the problem is that there are imbalances by the time we get to end-game, the answer is to adjust the benefits of racial passives so that everyone can compensate in other ways and reach approx. the same result, like my Breton having to invest in fire resistance if they want the same as a Dunmer. The answer isn't, in my opinion, to throw out or spread out the lore-based racial passives.
Thunderknuckles wrote: »While I can appreciate wanting some kind of equality or whatever when it comes to high level play, I actually like that my Imperial battlemage will never have the innate skill an Altmer will. Bretons shouldn't be better berserkers than Orcs. Argonians should not be sneakier than Khajiit. I like the inequalities. Makes it more interesting. You can still do any of that stuff with any (playable) race in Tamriel, but if you want the innate advantages of being better at a certain thing... well, you gotta go with the race that's been good at that thing for thousands of years.
Personally, I think equality is overrated anyway. Life isn't equal, and to force or pretend everyone should be equal in all ways at all times is asinine in my view. Celebrate and make the most of the differences.
"Equality is overrated!" -- Green for Emperor 2020!
Except that YOUR character is not, by any means, the average of their race in the story. So the OP's suggestion is not unreasonable. YOUR/OUR characters are, story wise, legendary.
Fair point. But if we're all legendary, are any of us? Seems like we should be "legendary heroes" or whatever by our actions, circumstance, etc., more than racial bonuses buffing up certain stats.
Also, it seems to me this is a heavily dps-oriented debate. Would everyone feel the same if I was requesting better healing passives for my Nord?
As it currently stands, race feels like one of the few things we have to make our characters unique. I can see why people are hesitant to give that up by letting people forge their own racial passives.
VaranisArano wrote: »Thunderknuckles wrote: »While I can appreciate wanting some kind of equality or whatever when it comes to high level play, I actually like that my Imperial battlemage will never have the innate skill an Altmer will. Bretons shouldn't be better berserkers than Orcs. Argonians should not be sneakier than Khajiit. I like the inequalities. Makes it more interesting. You can still do any of that stuff with any (playable) race in Tamriel, but if you want the innate advantages of being better at a certain thing... well, you gotta go with the race that's been good at that thing for thousands of years.
Personally, I think equality is overrated anyway. Life isn't equal, and to force or pretend everyone should be equal in all ways at all times is asinine in my view. Celebrate and make the most of the differences.
"Equality is overrated!" -- Green for Emperor 2020!
Except that YOUR character is not, by any means, the average of their race in the story. So the OP's suggestion is not unreasonable. YOUR/OUR characters are, story wise, legendary.
In an RPG, your characters become legendary. In Oblivion, I could enchant gear that would allow my Breton to achieve the native fire resistance of a Dunmer or I could fortify my skill to match the base skill of a Redguard, but my Breton racial passives were what they were. In Skyrim, any magicka character can get to a high level of magicka to fuel their spells, but its the Altmer who get the biggest starting bonus.
If the root of the problem is that there are imbalances by the time we get to end-game, the answer is to adjust the benefits of racial passives so that everyone can compensate in other ways and reach approx. the same result, like my Breton having to invest in fire resistance if they want the same as a Dunmer. The answer isn't, in my opinion, to throw out or spread out the lore-based racial passives.
Another good response. I guess my question is:
Why do we all have to reach approximately the same results at endgame?
I'm trying to be open-minded, but I don't get why a Redguard should be entitled to being even almost as good as an Altmer at elemental magic damage, and the like. I don't make a Khajiit and expect to be able to dethrone Vanus Galerion as the most formidable magic wielding mortal around.
And if life worked like ESO, I wouldn't choose to be a short white man and expect to become the best NBA player of all time. I know this is a game, and blah blah blah, but I mean... I'm just struggling with the concept of wanting everyone to be able to be the best at everything. How would you balance it while maintaining the individuality of the races in Tamriel?
VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Thunderknuckles wrote: »While I can appreciate wanting some kind of equality or whatever when it comes to high level play, I actually like that my Imperial battlemage will never have the innate skill an Altmer will. Bretons shouldn't be better berserkers than Orcs. Argonians should not be sneakier than Khajiit. I like the inequalities. Makes it more interesting. You can still do any of that stuff with any (playable) race in Tamriel, but if you want the innate advantages of being better at a certain thing... well, you gotta go with the race that's been good at that thing for thousands of years.
Personally, I think equality is overrated anyway. Life isn't equal, and to force or pretend everyone should be equal in all ways at all times is asinine in my view. Celebrate and make the most of the differences.
"Equality is overrated!" -- Green for Emperor 2020!
Except that YOUR character is not, by any means, the average of their race in the story. So the OP's suggestion is not unreasonable. YOUR/OUR characters are, story wise, legendary.
In an RPG, your characters become legendary. In Oblivion, I could enchant gear that would allow my Breton to achieve the native fire resistance of a Dunmer or I could fortify my skill to match the base skill of a Redguard, but my Breton racial passives were what they were. In Skyrim, any magicka character can get to a high level of magicka to fuel their spells, but its the Altmer who get the biggest starting bonus.
If the root of the problem is that there are imbalances by the time we get to end-game, the answer is to adjust the benefits of racial passives so that everyone can compensate in other ways and reach approx. the same result, like my Breton having to invest in fire resistance if they want the same as a Dunmer. The answer isn't, in my opinion, to throw out or spread out the lore-based racial passives.
Another good response. I guess my question is:
Why do we all have to reach approximately the same results at endgame?
I'm trying to be open-minded, but I don't get why a Redguard should be entitled to being even almost as good as an Altmer at elemental magic damage, and the like. I don't make a Khajiit and expect to be able to dethrone Vanus Galerion as the most formidable magic wielding mortal around.
And if life worked like ESO, I wouldn't choose to be a short white man and expect to become the best NBA player of all time. I know this is a game, and blah blah blah, but I mean... I'm just struggling with the concept of wanting everyone to be able to be the best at everything. How would you balance it while maintaining the individuality of the races in Tamriel?
I'd say its not too out of reach to ask to all reach the sameish results at end-game, because that's what's possible in teh single-player Elder Scrolls games...but I come to ESO from the single-player elder scrolls rpg games. Maybe that's different with MMOs where I should be expecting classes/races to have bigger end game differences?
In most modern MMORPGs your race doesn't impact your character as much as it does in ESO. A lot of people want to play other races at high levels of gameplay which would otherwise reduce their effectiveness. Altmer a the best magicka race and Redguard the best stam race. However, both of those races have warriors of other types.
In an effort to allow more diversity for multiple class types and races I propose that each race has a starting template to choose from. These templates would be unique to the race but allow the race to perform other roles efficiently at high levels of play. For example, you currently have the Altmer passives for magicka and there would then be an alternative starting templar which would again be unique to them. Perhaps it would increase Stamina by 10% and reduce stamina cost by 3% with the third passive allowing 1% stamina recovery while blocking.
This is just a loose example but essentially my idea is to have two unique templates for each race only selectable at character creation. One for Magicka and one for Stamina oriented classes.
Micah_Bayer wrote: »In most modern MMORPGs your race doesn't impact your character as much as it does in ESO. A lot of people want to play other races at high levels of gameplay which would otherwise reduce their effectiveness. Altmer a the best magicka race and Redguard the best stam race. However, both of those races have warriors of other types.
In an effort to allow more diversity for multiple class types and races I propose that each race has a starting template to choose from. These templates would be unique to the race but allow the race to perform other roles efficiently at high levels of play. For example, you currently have the Altmer passives for magicka and there would then be an alternative starting templar which would again be unique to them. Perhaps it would increase Stamina by 10% and reduce stamina cost by 3% with the third passive allowing 1% stamina recovery while blocking.
This is just a loose example but essentially my idea is to have two unique templates for each race only selectable at character creation. One for Magicka and one for Stamina oriented classes.
Not lore accurate
While I can appreciate wanting some kind of equality or whatever when it comes to high level play, I actually like that my Imperial battlemage will never have the innate skill an Altmer will. Bretons shouldn't be better berserkers than Orcs. Argonians should not be sneakier than Khajiit. I like the inequalities. Makes it more interesting. You can still do any of that stuff with any (playable) race in Tamriel, but if you want the innate advantages of being better at a certain thing... well, you gotta go with the race that's been good at that thing for thousands of years.
Personally, I think equality is overrated anyway. Life isn't equal, and to force or pretend everyone should be equal in all ways at all times is asinine in my view. Celebrate and make the most of the differences.
"Equality is overrated!" -- Green for Emperor 2020!