Seriously. There have been SO many threads lately about animation cancelling; light attack weaving almost invariably gets lumped into those discussions.
I'm assuming that those of you who claim light attack weaving is an exploit have not played many MMORPGs before and do not understand why light/heavy attacks were added to this game. Most old-school MMORPGs (think EverQuest, WoW, LOTRO, etc.) had/have combat systems that feature passive auto-attacks. Auto-attacks provide small amounts of melee or ranged damage, and generally fire off during the global skill cooldown (GCD). Players have ZERO control over auto-attacks, though some of these games do allow you to turn them off (resulting in a small DPS decrease) if you don't like them, or if having auto-attacks turned on results in accidental enemy aggro. A lot of macro and animation cancelling setups in other games require careful timing to make the most of auto-attacks. See this hunter build for LOTRO as an example: http://heedlesstosspotts.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2372522
Relevant quote (again, for a hunter in LOTRO):No matter how well the following things chain skills or cancel animation, your auto-attacks can do both. Don't jam an auto-attack together with a skill, but do try to time skills right after an auto-attack animation begins (the animation begins before your character actually moves to shoot). It is essential to master the timing between each auto-attack. This will make your skill transitions smoother than an oiled butt. If you screw up and use it too late after the auto-attack animation begins, you'll get a short animation lock.
Guess what ESO had in alpha? You guessed it! Auto-attacks. Long-term MMO players and Elder Scrolls fans wanted a more active combat system, however -- one not reliant on the traditional auto-attacks, auto-blocks, auto-dodging, and tab-targetting that defined old school MMOs. Light and heavy attacks were born. Like auto-attacks, light/heavy attacks provide a small amount of ranged or melee damage. Like auto-attacks, they should be weaved between skills during the GCD. Like auto-attacks, their animations can be cancelled by firing off a skill as soon as the animation starts to increase DPS slightly.
ESO is not the only MMO that made the transition away from auto-attacking. Active light damaging skills are used in other modern MMORPGs as well. Not everyone has been a fan of that transition (see this reddit thread, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/43euzg/discussion_where_did_the_auto_attack_go/ ), but many of us have been, because combat is now far more engaging. It's awesome that we can fire off light attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us during the GCD. It's also awesome that we can block and dodge attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us based on our block/dodge stats.
In sum, please stop suggesting that weaving with light damage attacks is an "exploit." It's something that has existed passively in MMORPGs for many, many, many years.
EDIT: And in case you needed any further proof that light attack weaving is not an exploit and is actually supported by ZOS, three cheers to @EremithIt's not an exploit anymore.
Official proof:
It adds an extra tier to skilled gameplay.
cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »
Seriously. There have been SO many threads lately about animation cancelling; light attack weaving almost invariably gets lumped into those discussions.
I'm assuming that those of you who claim light attack weaving is an exploit have not played many MMORPGs before and do not understand why light/heavy attacks were added to this game. Most old-school MMORPGs (think EverQuest, WoW, LOTRO, etc.) had/have combat systems that feature passive auto-attacks. Auto-attacks provide small amounts of melee or ranged damage, and generally fire off during the global skill cooldown (GCD). Players have ZERO control over auto-attacks, though some of these games do allow you to turn them off (resulting in a small DPS decrease) if you don't like them, or if having auto-attacks turned on results in accidental enemy aggro. A lot of macro and animation cancelling setups in other games require careful timing to make the most of auto-attacks. See this hunter build for LOTRO as an example: http://heedlesstosspotts.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2372522
Relevant quote (again, for a hunter in LOTRO):No matter how well the following things chain skills or cancel animation, your auto-attacks can do both. Don't jam an auto-attack together with a skill, but do try to time skills right after an auto-attack animation begins (the animation begins before your character actually moves to shoot). It is essential to master the timing between each auto-attack. This will make your skill transitions smoother than an oiled butt. If you screw up and use it too late after the auto-attack animation begins, you'll get a short animation lock.
Guess what ESO had in alpha? You guessed it! Auto-attacks. Long-term MMO players and Elder Scrolls fans wanted a more active combat system, however -- one not reliant on the traditional auto-attacks, auto-blocks, auto-dodging, and tab-targetting that defined old school MMOs. Light and heavy attacks were born. Like auto-attacks, light/heavy attacks provide a small amount of ranged or melee damage. Like auto-attacks, they should be weaved between skills during the GCD. Like auto-attacks, their animations can be cancelled by firing off a skill as soon as the animation starts to increase DPS slightly.
ESO is not the only MMO that made the transition away from auto-attacking. Active light damaging skills are used in other modern MMORPGs as well. Not everyone has been a fan of that transition (see this reddit thread, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/43euzg/discussion_where_did_the_auto_attack_go/ ), but many of us have been, because combat is now far more engaging. It's awesome that we can fire off light attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us during the GCD. It's also awesome that we can block and dodge attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us based on our block/dodge stats.
In sum, please stop suggesting that weaving with light damage attacks is an "exploit." It's something that has existed passively in MMORPGs for many, many, many years.
EDIT: And in case you needed any further proof that light attack weaving is not an exploit and is actually supported by ZOS, three cheers to @EremithIt's not an exploit anymore.
Official proof:
Wrong. It is still an exploit, its a cheap mechanic that is affected by latency. Also, ZoS ONLY put that tool tip there making it "legit" because they are incapable of coding to fix the issue.
Take note. Wow does not have this issue. Its real simple. Put everything on a global cool down and this solves the problem with the cheese animation cancelling exploit.
Stinkyremy wrote: »It is an exploit, do you not remember the quote from matt that said "weaving was an unintended fault in the engine that we have just allowed and ran with" meaning they did not intend for weaving to be in the game, it was just an error of the engine they didn't manage to fix.
The sad thing is none of the many - and I hesitate to dignify these canards as such - "arguments" are incorrect.
Could you have been bothered to use Google? No, of course not.
Animation canceling as a way of boosting DPS was not intended as there were traits that sped up attack speed. Which would make no sense whatsoever.
It simply wasn't envisioned by the people that designed the systems. Along with a bajillion other things that change once a bajillion crazy people start interacting with the world you build.
It was also acknowledges as something they ended up liking, stated in person by Wrobel at the Guild Summit. Something which some people who still post here actually attended. That's where we got audio of the Itemization team and found that one of the main problems with ESO development is that some, not all, people who design things are completely unfamiliar with this game. Also early on we found out there's some maniac in the art department who is lethal in naked pvp. Don't know his name. Kinda scary.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1532782#Comment_1532782
Earlier posts before that one - and they started in May 2014 - exist but without developer feedback being known on these issues.
Now please stop this. There's something called consensus reality and simply asserting things because you feel like it is misleading actually sane human beings who come here for information and is actually against the TOS.
Anotherone773 wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I'd prefer it if the game actually explained how to do light attack weaving to increase your DPS, but then a basic role tutorial would be nice period. The Skill Advisor should help a little with players' selecting skills, but the stuff that's crucial to good DPS like light attack weaving, a rotation of DOTS and single target skills, heavy attack weaving, and bar swap canceling is only found in player guides.
I agree that if light weaving and AC are such an important part of completing content in this game that it should have a tutorial on it rather than just a random tip thrown in. I think the whole tutorial system needs some love. It really isnt super helpful and ESO is really different than a lot of MMOs. If you played the TES series AND MMOs then you can get the hang of it. But if you only played one or the other your kind of the creek.
MisterBigglesworth wrote: »Imagine if ZOS took this same tact with other "features" over the years
Oh look. Yet another person with a crystal ball. Why don't you go ahead and tell us of alll ZOS's plans and internal projects? Please enlighten me with your knowledge.Seriously. There have been SO many threads lately about animation cancelling; light attack weaving almost invariably gets lumped into those discussions.
I'm assuming that those of you who claim light attack weaving is an exploit have not played many MMORPGs before and do not understand why light/heavy attacks were added to this game. Most old-school MMORPGs (think EverQuest, WoW, LOTRO, etc.) had/have combat systems that feature passive auto-attacks. Auto-attacks provide small amounts of melee or ranged damage, and generally fire off during the global skill cooldown (GCD). Players have ZERO control over auto-attacks, though some of these games do allow you to turn them off (resulting in a small DPS decrease) if you don't like them, or if having auto-attacks turned on results in accidental enemy aggro. A lot of macro and animation cancelling setups in other games require careful timing to make the most of auto-attacks. See this hunter build for LOTRO as an example: http://heedlesstosspotts.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2372522
Relevant quote (again, for a hunter in LOTRO):No matter how well the following things chain skills or cancel animation, your auto-attacks can do both. Don't jam an auto-attack together with a skill, but do try to time skills right after an auto-attack animation begins (the animation begins before your character actually moves to shoot). It is essential to master the timing between each auto-attack. This will make your skill transitions smoother than an oiled butt. If you screw up and use it too late after the auto-attack animation begins, you'll get a short animation lock.
Guess what ESO had in alpha? You guessed it! Auto-attacks. Long-term MMO players and Elder Scrolls fans wanted a more active combat system, however -- one not reliant on the traditional auto-attacks, auto-blocks, auto-dodging, and tab-targetting that defined old school MMOs. Light and heavy attacks were born. Like auto-attacks, light/heavy attacks provide a small amount of ranged or melee damage. Like auto-attacks, they should be weaved between skills during the GCD. Like auto-attacks, their animations can be cancelled by firing off a skill as soon as the animation starts to increase DPS slightly.
ESO is not the only MMO that made the transition away from auto-attacking. Active light damaging skills are used in other modern MMORPGs as well. Not everyone has been a fan of that transition (see this reddit thread, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/43euzg/discussion_where_did_the_auto_attack_go/ ), but many of us have been, because combat is now far more engaging. It's awesome that we can fire off light attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us during the GCD. It's also awesome that we can block and dodge attacks ourselves, rather than letting the game do it for us based on our block/dodge stats.
In sum, please stop suggesting that weaving with light damage attacks is an "exploit." It's something that has existed passively in MMORPGs for many, many, many years.
EDIT: And in case you needed any further proof that light attack weaving is not an exploit and is actually supported by ZOS, three cheers to @EremithIt's not an exploit anymore.
Official proof:
Wrong. It is still an exploit, its a cheap mechanic that is affected by latency. Also, ZoS ONLY put that tool tip there making it "legit" because they are incapable of coding to fix the issue.
Take note. Wow does not have this issue. Its real simple. Put everything on a global cool down and this solves the problem with the cheese animation cancelling exploit.
Animation canceling as a way of boosting DPS was not intended as there were traits that sped up attack speed. Which would make no sense whatsoever.
rustic_potato wrote: »GreenhaloX wrote: »if you dared to read most of them its not the light attacking "weaving" you are thinking of. its spazzing attacks to clip off animations using things like weapon swap and block tapping... aka animation cancelling, you know, the ACTUAL bug?
Oh, really? Read the OFFICIAL ZOS ADVICE in the image posted above: "For maximum damage, activate abilities immediately after using a Light Attack." If you do as the ZOS devs recommend and activate a skill immediately after a light attack, you will cancel the light attack animation. IT'S NOT A BUG. Animation cancelling has existed in MMORPGs for years, and years, and years.
And yes, people are complaining about light attack weaving in other threads. It's not just about weapon swap cancels, or block cancels. There are people who claim you should not be able to fire off a light attack and a skill at almost the exact same time, and these people seem not to understand that that's PRECISELY how passive auto-attacking works with skills in other MMOs.
Oh, got it..
light attack weaving is where you throw in light attacks between every ability.
animation cancelling is where you use weapon swapping/block to cut abilities animations shorter to speed them up. aka animation cancelling.
OP is gunna make himself look dumb if he doesnt know the difference.
weaving is mostly supported animation wise tho my NB healer spamming siphon and light attacks is kind of jerky.
LOL, I do know the difference. You ignored what I said (again). There are in fact people who claim that weaving -- especially when it involves cancelling the animation of the light attack -- is unintended.
the image explains weaving... not animation cancelling...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=ThZtwhYkKSs
Here you go, the lead combat dev explaining that animation cancelling is an integral part of the game.
embracing it. not intending it, eric isn't exactly someone people like for good reason, he makes alot of wtf choices.
if it was intended they'd i dunno... fix it and teach it in the default game?
no raid or hard mode should rely on something that you have to learn off site to be able to compete in it